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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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IAmMetaKnight

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Reminder that Bandana Dee is the only Dream Friend in the base game other than Dedede and Meta Knight, and the only one of them whose moveset isn't based on a copy ability.
I think his place in RTDL and his popularity boosts his chances significantly. However, I think it's worth noting that his moveset is still technically based on Spear, even though Spear isn't in Star Allies. Also worth noting that Gooey and the DL2 friends feel like they were more necessary additions, as they were playable in previous games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Marx's moveset looks completely original. Also, I think it's safe to assert that he was included in Star Allies on the sole basis of his popularity. I think his relevance in the Kirby series, his popularity (lol have you seen the amount of fanart?), and his potential moveset (I could see him as the goofy, trickster archetype, which we don't really see much of) are enough to warrant him a position in Smash. I'd say potentially even before BD. lol I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'd say it's definitely a possibility.

There are plenty of other characters I could see popping up in Star Allies that would make potentially great additions to the Smash roster. Magolor and Adeline, just to name a few. But only time will tell whether it makes a difference or not.
 
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D

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I think his place in RTDL and his popularity boosts his chances significantly. However, I think it's worth noting that his moveset is still technically based on Spear, even though Spear isn't in Star Allies. Also worth noting that Gooey and the DL2 friends feel like they were more necessary additions, as they were playable in previous games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Marx's moveset looks completely original. Also, I think it's safe to assert that he was included in Star Allies on the sole basis of his popularity. I think his relevance in the Kirby series, his popularity (lol have you seen the amount of fanart on tumblr?), and his potential moveset (I could see him as the goofy, trickster archetype, which we don't really see much of) are enough to warrant him a position in Smash. I'd say potentially even before BD. lol I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'd say it's definitely a possibility.

There are plenty of other characters I could see popping up in Star Allies that would make potentially great additions to the Smash roster. Magolor and Adeline, just to name a few. But only time will tell whether it makes a difference or not.
You missed my point.
Bandana Dee being in the base game means he had higher priority than the others, who I feel were added for legacy reasons. In other words, he was deemed more important.
Furthermore, despite his moveset being ripped straight from RTDL, it's still unique to him in Star Allies. That means something considering Dedede and Meta Knight are (Presumably) based off the Hammer and Sword abilities respectively, both of which are already in the game.
Finally, Bandana Dee also had a long relevancy streak in since RTDL, while Marx and co. weren't really on people's minds until recently.
I don't think Marx, Gooey and the others are impossible, but Bandana Dee is probably gonna be the first Kirby newcomer if there is one.
 

IAmMetaKnight

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You missed my point.
Bandana Dee being in the base game means he had higher priority than the others, who I feel were added for legacy reasons. In other words, he was deemed more important.
Furthermore, despite his moveset being ripped straight from RTDL, it's still unique to him in Star Allies. That means something considering Dedede and Meta Knight are (Presumably) based off the Hammer and Sword abilities respectively, both of which are already in the game.
Finally, Bandana Dee also had a long relevancy streak in since RTDL, while Marx and co. weren't really on people's minds until recently.
I don't think Marx, Gooey and the others are impossible, but Bandana Dee is probably gonna be the first Kirby newcomer if there is one.
lol yeah he's relevant don't get me wrong. I sorta disagree with the notion that the fact that he got in for his current relevance rather than for his classic status gives him more priority than the classic characters. I feel like the others got in Star allies due to continued popularity despite decreasing relevance. That's sorta what I meant to say. That's my argument as to how one of them could get in before BD. idk, to me, a character who regains relevance due to classic status and continued popularity is just a little more noteworthy than a character who's pretty much always been relevant. (I acknowledge Bandana Dee had to slowly make his way to his current status. I wouldn't discredit that) lol but that's just my own humble opinion. tbh, I'd be happy to see any new character.
 
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ErenJager

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Newcomers I want...

King K Rool
He had to be up there in the Smash ballot, he was very popular. Hopefully that sent a message to Sakurai for who to make playable on Smash for the Switch. His popularity was significant enough to get us a Mii costume for DLC. We need more villains, and we need another DK rep. KKR is the best option to diversify the roster, in my opinion.

Ridley
Myself and many others have been wanting Ridley playable since pretty much Melee. In the Melee intro Ridley was shown to be roughly the size of Samus. Since then he's played on my mind as being a possibility. In Smash 4, Sakurai said he was too big and wouldn't bring justice to the character to shrink him down. There already exist size discrepancies within the roster... Olimar... Pikachu in comparison to Mewtwo/ Charizard etc... I feel like he's possible but yeah it would be a bit of a contrast from his modern depictions, i'm personally fine with that, however others may not. I think we need more villains, and I think Metroid deserves another rep.

Giegue
The Villain from the Earthbound/ Mother series. The Mother series is a trilogy series, and has been represented since the very first Smash. Ness from Mother 2, and Lucas from Mother 3. I think the physical form of Giegue should be brought into the roster because he was primarily featured in Mother 1 and would complete the trifecta. The Mother series also currently only has protagonists and it would be nice to see at least one antagonist. This is coupled with the fact that Smash lacks Villains/ antagonist in general. I could see the character playing slightly similar to Mewtwo but with Mother inspired Psi attacks, maybe even a mind control mechanic... Which would be awesome.

Black Shadow
I would like Black Shadow to come to the Roster to take Ganondorf's moveset and allow for Ganondorf to get a move 'canon' inspired move set based on his series. Maybe finally give him a sword or something. Beyond that it would great to see another rep for F-Zero since the franchise has been there since the first Smash. As always Smash needs more villainous characters.

Young Link
I know not really a "newcomer" by name, but by move set he would be. I would like to see this character return but completely overhauled by making use of his masks. I really want to see a Fierce Deity final smash.

As for third parties...

I want to see Geno & Bomberman.
 

Loungemen

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Ridley's been due for a long time..I hope he makes this chance, same with Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong.

Also please, Captain Toad and Tingle

For third parties, maybe someone who recently appeared on the Switch? Maybe Crash or Rabbid Peach
 
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D

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Doubt it, Bandana Dee is the obvious 4th Kirby rep. Only chance for any of those is if Sakurai really lets his bias shine through and only wants to bring in a character from one of his own games, like he's so far done with the Kirby stages, but I doubt he'll go that far. Not to hate on any of those characters, I have my own good memories with them, but anyone other than Bandana Dee would be pretty bad at this point, they neither have the same popularity, relevance or importance.


People really sleepin' on this.....
 

MasterOfKnees

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People really sleepin' on this.....
I'd love it, but realistically I only think he'd make it in as a last minute Meta Knight clone, he's only really been part of extra modes like Metaknightmare Ultra and the True Arena so might not be immediately recognizable to most people.
 
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D

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I'd love it, but realistically I only think he'd make it in as a last minute Meta Knight clone, he's only really been part of extra modes like Metaknightmare Ultra and the True Arena so might not be immediately recognizable to most people.
Sakurai seemed to think he was a big enough deal to include as a trophy last time with just two games under his belt.

Not including brief cameos and references, he's now up to four.
The fourth being Star Allies alongside a new partner he summons.

It's clear that HAL will keep bringing him back somehow in the future.
So even if he's not recognizable to the "casual" Kirby fans that don't play anything other than the main campaign, he's still a big figure in modern Kirby.

I'm not going to argue whether or not he's more likely than B.W.D. since that's just begging for a heated debate, so I'm just going to say that Galacta Knight is a lot more plausible than many would assume and leave it there. :p
 
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D

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You really got a thing for derivative characters, doncha? :p
Honey, both GK and BWD are derivative. :V

But at least one is much more distinct than "wears a piece of cloth to distinguish himself from other members of his race". :troll:
Heck, his name is just -piece of cloth- -what his race is-. :awesome:


EDIT:
....I'm just making lighthearted jabs. I'm no way meaning to insult BWD.
All I'm doing is pointing out the irony in referring to GK as "derivative" when BWD is MUCH more derivative by definition. :p
 
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N3ON

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Honey, both GK and BWD are derivative. :V

But at least one is much more distinct than "wears a piece of cloth to distinguish himself from other members of his race". :troll:
Heck, his name is just -piece of cloth- -what his race is-. :awesome:
I'm not even talking about BWD, I don't care about that guy. I suppose he's derivative of a Waddle Dee, but only insofar as being a specific member of the race is being derivative of that race.

More talking about the Shadows and the Waluigis and the Galacta Knights...

EDIT: My point also wasn't meant as anything more than just a tongue in cheek nod towards something I realized, lol. People can like who they like, I just found a commonality I guess.
 
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D

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I'm not even talking about BWD, I don't care about that guy. I suppose he's derivative of a Waddle Dee, but only insofar as being a specific member of the race is being derivative of that race.

More talking about the Shadows and the Waluigis and the Galacta Knights...
Don't forget a derivative of Spear Kirby starting with RtDL

I grew up with Mewtwo and BlackWargreymon being my favorite Pokémon and Digimon, respectively.
And Wario being more of my childhood than Mario ever was.

It isn't a matter of liking derivatives.
It's a matter of not judging characters simply based on the fact they were based around another character design-wise.
Even Meta Knight himself is a derivative of Kirby, but that doesn't make him any less awesome for who he is.

And in each of those cases, the derivative draws to me based on who they are, not who they are derivatives of.
 

N3ON

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Don't forget a derivative of Spear Kirby starting with RtDL

I grew up with Mewtwo and BlackWargreymon being my favorite Pokémon and Digimon, respectively.
And Wario being more of my childhood than Mario ever was.

It isn't a matter of liking derivatives.
It's a matter of not judging characters simply based on the fact they were based around another character design-wise.
Even Meta Knight himself is a derivative of Kirby, but that doesn't make him any less awesome for who he is.

And in each of those cases, the derivative draws to me based on who they are, not who they are derivatives of.
Hey that's fair enough, but next time there's some new derivative character in the spotlight I'm gonna tag ya and commence teasing. Assuming I remember, which I probably won't. :D
 
D

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Hey that's fair enough, but next time there's some new derivative character in the spotlight I'm gonna tag ya and commence teasing. Assuming I remember, which I probably won't. :D
Now I'm going to tag you and ask if you forgot or somethin'. :p

....assuming I don't forget too.
 
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UserKev

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Newcomers I want...

Giegue
The Villain from the Earthbound/ Mother series. The Mother series is a trilogy series, and has been represented since the very first Smash. Ness from Mother 2, and Lucas from Mother 3. I think the physical form of Giegue should be brought into the roster because he was primarily featured in Mother 1 and would complete the trifecta. The Mother series also currently only has protagonists and it would be nice to see at least one antagonist. This is coupled with the fact that Smash lacks Villains/ antagonist in general. I could see the character playing slightly similar to Mewtwo but with Mother inspired Psi attacks, maybe even a mind control mechanic... Which would be awesome.
Giegue is a really interesting case to where, it bothers me that people just want the Mother protagonist trio completed, which is lame. I'd take Giegue representing Earthbound Beginnings in a nutshell.

I ran into a comment of someone suggestion that Giegue could embody Ninten or something like that and it was badass.
 

FrozenRoy

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So, something I was wondering, if I wanted to make a big thing containing a bunch of thoughts on how much I feel each character might get in/how much I want them in, where would I put that in? I remember old threads like this in Brawl and was wanting to make my own.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Opossum

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I figured I'd share my moveset for Celica with this thread, since Fire Emblem is often a hot topic for Smash speculation. Tell me what you think of it!


Normal Attacks

Jab: Using the Beloved Zofia, Celica performs a three hit combo attack. The first strike comes downward from overhead, the second comes from the side in a sweeping motion, and the third has Celica twirling a bit, swinging the blade from behind in an upward motion. This is based on her in-dungeon combo from Shadows of Valentia. Specifically, it comes directly from her second, third, and fourth strike.

Dash Attack: The small wisp of fire following Celica creates a wall of flames in front of her as she charges forward. Unlike her other magical attacks, no recoil is done here. This is changed, however, if Celica charges her Fire special. If it is charged, this move makes Celica take minor recoil damage, but also makes the move hit much harder. This is taken directly from her dash attack in Shadows of Valentia.

Up Tilt: Celica points the Beloved Zofia skyward as the glowing flame beside her becomes three fire balls, which twirl around the tip of her sword. A multi-hit move.

Side Tilt: Celica thrusts the Beloved Zofia forward, moving slightly in the direction she's facing while doing so. This move comes from the first and fifth strike of her in-dungeon combo in Shadows of Valentia.

Down Tilt: Celica, while crouched, moves her hand outward, launching a small, thunderous spark toward the ground. Due to the stun effect, this move can combo into itself twice before knockback forces foes away.


Smash Attacks:

Up Smash: Celica, using the Beloved Zofia like a sort of baton, casts Excalibur above her, creating a slow-rising razor wind. It travels higher up and does more damage the longer it is charged. The move has a trapping effect due to it being a rapid multi-hit move.

Side Smash: Celica leaps up and smashes the Beloved Zofia downward onto opponents. This is based on her critical hit and finishing blow animation in both Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia. However, this move does far less knockback than the rest of her smash attacks, due to not being magically backed.

Down Smash: Celica performs her casting animation and casts Thunder, hitting both sides of the ground beside her with bolts of lightning.


Aerial Attacks:

Neutral Air: Celica's fire ball splits into a small stream of fire. Celica moves the Beloved Zofia in a circular motion and the stream of flames circles around her twice, clockwise.

Forward Air: Celica, using a variation of Seraphim, quickly grows angelic wings and uses them to slam foes both forward and downward. This move is based on one of Celica's attacks in Fire Emblem Warriors.

Back Air: Celica quickly makes a backhanded strike with the Beloved Zofia. Here, the tip of the blade is blessed with the Thunder spell, creating a small orb of electricity at the end. Hitting with the spark does much more damage.

Up Air: Celica uses another variant of Excalibur, sending a small gust of wind upward. Knockback-wise and potency-wise, it is somewhere between Mega Man's and Mr. Game and Watch's wind-based up airs.

Down Air: Celica points her arms downward, spreading her fireball into a stream of fire beneath her in a parabolic arc.


Grab, Pummel, and Throws:

Grab and Pummel: Celica has a fairly standard grab, and pummels by imbuing her hands with fire to burn the opponent. The pummel does not, however, cause recoil damage, despite being magic-based. This holds true for Celica's throws as well.

Forward Throw: Celica releases the foe as three columns of fire erupt in front of her, beneath the foe, carrying them away before causing severe knockback.

Back Throw: Celica tosses the foe back and releases a blast of light magic from her hands, sending them flying.

Up Throw: Celica waves her arms overhead after bringing her foe upward, shocking them with electricity before launching them.

Down Throw: Pointing her Beloved Zofia to the ground, three strikes of compressed wind energy pummel the foe before bouncing them off the ground of the stage.


Special Attacks:

Neutral Special: Fire (Ragnarok) - Celica charges up her fire ball that shoots forward before exploding. At full charge, this becomes Ragnarok, which is incredibly powerful, doing roughly 35% damage and quite a bit of knock back, but at the expense of Celica taking hefty recoil damage. Chargeable and storable. While it is stored, however, any attack using Celica's fire ball will grow in power, but the recoil damage of the move will be more severe. This does not effect her pummel or forward throw, however.

Side Special: Seraphim - Celica clasps her hands together as she is bathed in a flash of white light. A giant ball of white light surrounds Celica when the button is released, and it slowly moves forward. If the opponent is overlapping Celica's light, they will be trapped similarly to Mewtwo's neutral air, before being carried forward with the ball of light and being erupted from it when it reaches its full distance. A "get off me" move befitting Celica's connection to Mila and having one of her weaknesses protected.

Up Special: Excalibur - Celica summons a gust of razor wind around her as she ascends. Nearby foes get cut by the wind, though Celica also takes minor damage from this move (less than five percent).

Down Special: Mila's Turnwheel - Celica kneels and enters a praying stance. A counter-styled move, if Celica activates this move at the right moment of impact with the foe, the foe is pushed away, doing no damage. However, Celica is healed by ten percent, making it a very risky way of restoring health. Note, though, that the move has far stricter timing than other Counter-like moves. Celica must be on the ground in order to use it, and it may only be successfully used twice per stock.

Final Smash: Ragnarok Ω - If foes are in range of the attack's start up, a cutscene plays, based on Celica's in-game cutscene when activating this move. Visually, they're essentially the same. The move then ends. Unlike in Shadows of Valentia, this move does not cause recoil damage to Celica, due to being her Final Smash.


Overview:

Celica mainly relies on her spells, with a few moves utilizing the Beloved Zofia, like her jab. The Beloved Zofia acts more like a conduit for her spells here than an actual weapon for most of her moveset, where she makes graceful guiding motions with it to focus her spells, not unlike a baton, or how Toon Link uses the Wind Waker. For the few attacks where she uses the Beloved Zofia for offense, she takes a more rapier-like style.

Like in Shadows of Valentia's dungeon segments, Celica is followed by a small wisp of fire. This is mostly cosmetic and serves as a neat way for her to animate some of her attacks, but also benefits from her neutral special, wherein she can increase its size the more she charges her Fire spell. This increases the size of some of her attacks' hit boxes at the expense of more recoil damage, and after firing off her charged Fire or Ragnarok, the wisp fizzles back to its original size.

In reference to Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia's unique magic system, Celica takes a variant of Pichu's self damage gimmick, but better executed. Celica does more self damage the more potent her spells are, but can reliably kill using them. Her issue stems from her being the epitome of a glass cannon, as she can't take hits well at all, especially when using her higher recoil spells. In addition to reflecting her game of origin's mechanics, her moveset also reflects her personality and character, with her gracefulness coming through in her use of the Beloved Zofia and her penchant for self-sacrifice coming through in her powerful spells' recoil.


So yeah, tell me what you think! I put a lot of thought into it to make it representative of Celica's character while also being something cool and unique from a Smash Bros. perspective. I also have things like taunts/victory animations and things like that, but I brought it down to just the moveset for now.
 
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GoodGrief741

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If we're talking *obvious* I think Chorus Kids and Wonder Red are at or above Dillon's level.
Wonder Red’s window of opportunity has probably been slammed shut, unless a W101 sequel or port is coming up (sadly I don’t really see people clamoring for either).

Dillon having sequels still being made arguably makes him more relevant than many of the Smash regulars.
 

N3ON

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Rhythm Heaven is head and shoulders above Dillon in terms of likelihood. That series is actually pretty successful, has multiple retail titles, and, if the data is to go by (discount Gematsu if you must), we were intended to get a RH character.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if sooner than later Labo were to be up there as well.
 

Kenith

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Wonder Red’s window of opportunity has probably been slammed shut, unless a W101 sequel or port is coming up (sadly I don’t really see people clamoring for either).

Dillon having sequels still being made arguably makes him more relevant than many of the Smash regulars.
Wonderful 101 is definitely getting a port. It's been hinted at. Of course, it might even be a sequel. Plus, I did see some support for him during the time of the ballot. It's more likely than a lot of people think.

EDIT: Plus, Nintendo's relationship with Platinum is very strong.
 
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Guybrush20X6

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So how many newcomers are people predicting this time anyway?

64 had 12, Melee had 14, Brawl: 18, and Sm4sh had 22. Do people think it's likely we'll get 22+ newcomers?
I'm not expecting too many as I think we're running out of big Nintendo characters. Heck, most interpretations of the Silhouettes don't have a single Smash 4 newcomer.

Then again, the ballot may give a lot of ignored fan favourites like the DK crew for instance.

I'm going to say 5 as a low ball guess.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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So how many newcomers are people predicting this time anyway?

64 had 12, Melee had 14, Brawl: 18, and Sm4sh had 22. Do people think it's likely we'll get 22+ newcomers?
Where are you getting 22 from? Charizard is still a Veteran if you're counting him.

There's 21 overall, if you count the Mii Fighters separately. Otherwise, 19. It's not a huge change-up overall.

I don't expect that much(if a new or port). The huge size of the roster becomes widely unbalanced. So a bit less is understandable.
 

ikke471

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I'm gonna guess we have a maximum of 10 new characters. I also expect Cloud to be kicked out due to the licencing issues they had in smash wiiu/3ds. I'm predicting we're gonna get a Xenoblade 2 rep (even though I hated the game) and at least 1 3rd party (god let it be Rayman) but yeah we have no clue what'll happen and balancing to keep in mind.
 

MasterOfKnees

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I''m gonna say 10 newcomers for the base game, but I'm pretty sure the game will be supported with DLC content for a long time, the Switch is looking like it'll be around for a while and Smash is really coming out at the perfect time to take full opportunity of the console's longevity.
 

Ura

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10-12 newcomers similar to Smash 4. In addition to that we'll probably see some old vets return and some clone characters similar to the ones we got in Smash 4. DLC will probably be a thing but IDK how long it'll run for. It could be a deal where DLC comes out in seasons so Sakurai and his team could release a batch of characters one year, take a break, and then release another batch the following year.
I''m gonna say 10 newcomers for the base game, but I'm pretty sure the game will be supported with DLC content for a long time, the Switch is looking like it'll be around for a while and Smash is really coming out at the perfect time to take full opportunity of the console's longevity.
Lets hope so.
 

GoodGrief741

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So how many newcomers are people predicting this time anyway?

64 had 12, Melee had 14, Brawl: 18, and Sm4sh had 22. Do people think it's likely we'll get 22+ newcomers?
10-ish is probably a reasonable expectation, but given how the game has been developed in absolute secrecy for who knows how long, the fact that they’re re-using assets, and Sakurai working on this (he’s mentioned wanting to outdo himself every time), I’m half-guessing, half-hoping we might get more than that. Would say 20 is probably a max.
 

YoshiandToad

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Where are you getting 22 from? Charizard is still a Veteran if you're counting him.

There's 21 overall, if you count the Mii Fighters separately. Otherwise, 19. It's not a huge change-up overall.

I don't expect that much(if a new or port). The huge size of the roster becomes widely unbalanced. So a bit less is understandable.
Honestly I just got the numbers from the Smashpedia Newcomer section that listed it as "22 newcomers" rather than counting them individually myself. The page read;
  • Mii Fighters
    • Mii Brawler
    • Mii Swordfighter
    • Mii Gunner
So I'm assuming whoever put "22" counted the Mii Fighters seperately AND the "Mii Fighters" bullet as seperate fighters. WHOOPS.
 
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