Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Shroob]

TBH given how long this pass is gonna last, I doubt I'll be hardcore speculating every character. Like, by FP8, I'll probably be willing to just wait and see what Nintendo's got to show on their own time rather than try to guess every one.

That's what I thought back in 2018.


.....2 years later...

 

[MooMew64]

That's what I thought back in 2018.


.....2 years later...

Honestly, I'm just personally at a point where I feel like all the options and theories have been exhausted in discussion. Leaks are probably not happening anymore, and that leaves us with just repeating the same theories and guesses over and over.

 

[Gribbo]

ARE there any other Nintendo franchises with NO Spirits?

Like, 3rd party? Obviously. But it's their OWN franchise and they couldn't be bothered.

Dragalia Lost is the big one, but it might be down to copyright issues with Cygames. There's also Pro Wrestling, which is a fairly iconic NES game that's still fondly remembered (namely with the phrase "A WINNER IS YOU"), which historically has been shafted compared to other IPs that haven't been seen since the NES (although it did get rereleased on the NES Online thing). Then you have a bunch of smaller arcade games like Sky Skipper and Block Fever, forgotten downloadable games like Bonsai Barber, Metal Torrent, and Flip Wars, and western-only releases like StarTropics, Gumshoe, and Tin Star. There's also Doshin the Giant for some reason, which is especially weird because that game had two trophies in Melee.

 

[CosmicQuark]

That's what I thought back in 2018.


.....2 years later...

I got my dream character, felt completed and didn't really care for Smash speculation...

...Oh by the way made up a mock Stage Selection for when Fighter's Pass 2 is finished.

Spoiler: So Many Stages

Template thanks to Lord Vatek

This ride will never end.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Dragalia Lost is the big one, but it might be down to copyright issues with Cygames. There's also Pro Wrestling, which is a fairly iconic NES game that's still fondly remembered (namely with the phrase "A WINNER IS YOU"), which historically has been shafted compared to other IPs that haven't been seen since the NES (although it did get rereleased on the NES Online thing). Then you have a bunch of smaller arcade games like Sky Skipper and Block Fever, forgotten downloadable games like Bonsai Barber, Metal Torrent, and Flip Wars, and western-only releases like StarTropics, Gumshoe, and Tin Star. There's also Doshin the Giant for some reason, which is especially weird because that game had two trophies in Melee.

At the very least, I think Star Tropics is the only multi-game Nintendo franchise without Spirits.

 

[Shroob]

I got my dream character, felt completed and didn't really care for Smash speculation...

...Oh by the way made up a mock Stage Selection for when Fighter's Pass 2 is finished.

Spoiler: So Many Stages

View attachment 276759
Template thanks to Lord Vatek

This ride will never end.

Add the Custom icon and that's 5 blank spots.


Until the man says it himself, I'm banking on a 3rd pass happening.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Add the Custom icon and that's 5 blank spots.


Until the man says it himself, I'm banking on a 3rd pass happening.

Idk Shroob, this sounds like people trying to predict the final roster size based on making a perfect rectangle with the CSS.

 

[Shroob]

Idk Shroob, this sounds like people trying to predict the final roster size based on making a perfect rectangle with the CSS.

I mean, at the end of the day though, it wasn't wrong.

Sakurai designed the base roster with the first fighter's pass + the custom in mind. Up until today, if you had custom stages on, it was a perfect square/rectangle.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah I appreciate there being no “Other Stages” section on the stage select screen, but I actually cannot get over this what the HELL Sakurai

Please please tell me I’m not the only one deeply troubled by this new development, this is a cry for help

What is it you can't get over? Is it being the only one down there? Because that'll be filled in if any new series get in, which is kinda likely for DLC characters tbh.

At the very least, I think Star Tropics is the only multi-game Nintendo franchise without Spirits.

That's true, but sadly to be expected, StarTropics was never released, or even intended for release, in Japan. Even all these years later it was never released in Japan on Wii, 3DS, or Wii U Virtual Consoles, so its likely that its not even considered, or widely known, by the Development Team.

 

[N3ON]

To be fair, it could just be a mistranslation.

The "finally dive into the second half part" seems pretty clear to me, but feel free to involve someone with a better grasp on Japanese than myself. I'd be interested to hear the results.

I mean, tbh, I read the article and I didn't really gauge a finite end to it. I want the DLC to be over as much as the next guy, I'm getting old and speculating is taking its toll on me.


But to me, it just reads more like "There's 2 packs, this is the 2nd half to them."



And like, if they're intending a 3rd pack, which could happen considering the WoL datamine, they wouldn't show their hand this early.

That's a bit of a stretch considering they don't mention the specific packs in that statement, they're talking about the DLC as a whole.

People can't speculate about things that are unlikely to happen, but is interesting nonetheless? There goes 90% of Smash speculation, rip.

If evidence doesn't matter, why stop at four more characters?

I'm not going to sit on potentially salient information just because it conflicts with what some people want.

Unless he said it in a Famitsu article, nothing here really 'implies' this is it.

Add the Custom icon and that's 5 blank spots.


Until the man says it himself, I'm banking on a 3rd pass happening.

https://smashboards.com/threads/fighters-pass-vol-2-is-the-final-smash-bros-ultimate-dlc.501070/

It's not impossible plans change, but keep in mind no such statement was made prior to Pass 2.

 

[Shroob]

The "finally dive into the second half part" seems pretty clear to me, but feel free to involve someone with a better grasp on Japanese than myself. I'd be interested to hear the results.


That's a bit of a stretch considering they don't mention the specific packs in that statement, they're talking about the DLC as a whole.


If evidence doesn't matter, why stop at four more characters?

I'm not going to sit on potentially salient information just because it conflicts with what some people want.



https://smashboards.com/threads/fighters-pass-vol-2-is-the-final-smash-bros-ultimate-dlc.501070/

It's not impossible plans change, but keep in mind no such statement was made prior to Pass 2.

We'll have to see at this point tbh. It's 2021's problem anyways.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey, y’know instead of trying to figure out what art Rex would use if he got in why don’t we just stan Elma? She has plenty of art they can use for the fighter spirit.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Idk Shroob, this sounds like people trying to predict the final roster size based on making a perfect rectangle with the CSS.

While I’m one who thinks FP2 is it (no echoes, no newcomers), the planned Base + FP1 had Stacked Character Select Screen and Random Stage Select Screen a perfect rectangle. Either it was intentional or coincidental, they weren’t wrong.

(Just give me 4 more echoes so I can get Impa and Shadow and both stacked/unstacked perfect plsthanx)

 

[Gribbo]

At the very least, I think Star Tropics is the only multi-game Nintendo franchise without Spirits.

There's a few others, actually.

- ThruSpace, a Wiiware game with a 3DS sequel called Ketzal's Corridors (which like Doshin, had a trophy in Smash before this),
- Endless Ocean, a duo of scuba-diving games for the Wii that were actually pretty popular
And in terms of other stange omissions,
- Odama, a bizarre pinball/strategy hybrid from the mind behind Seaman
- Time Twist, a text adventure game for the Famicom that came out REALLY late in it's lifespan and inevitably was never released over here
- Uniracers, a game made to show that the SNES didn't need any of that fancy blast processing to make things go fast, but it was legally screwed over because Pixar thought they owned the idea of a unicycle that moves on it's own
- Flipnote Studio, an absurdly popular DSi app with a disappointing 3DS successor and it baffles me they didn't make the frog a spirit
- Color TV-Game 15, which is particularly weird because it's in the game as an assist trophy

 

[Shroob]

I definitely wouldn't be opposed to this being the end of DLC, trust me.

By the time the last character in FP2 comes out, I'll be a fresh 30 years old, and boy, my body ain't what it used to be.


Smash, at least to me, is already 'complete', so anything on top of the base game is just bonus, I'd just like to see it through to the end, for sentimental purposes, really.



Granted, I could just, be sensible and not care soo much about a children's party game

But that's the sensible thing to do, where's the fun in that?

 

[CosmicQuark]

If evidence doesn't matter, why stop at four more characters?

I’m the one asking for 4 more echoes so that stacked/unstacked would be perfect. Not because I think it’s likely or even plausible, but because I’d like it.

I’ve also made rosters with 100 characters. Never was gonna happen, but it’s fun.

This isn’t a court of law, speculation doesn’t need evidence.

 

[Gribbo]

Remember when Smash 3DS's CSS was so **** people thought it meant we were getting five more characters when the Wii U version came out?

 

[Shroob]

Remember when Smash 3DS's CSS was so **** people thought it meant we were getting five more characters when the Wii U version came out?

The final CSS for Ultimate will look pretty decent tbh.

At the very least, starting with FP9, Jigglypuff will be pushed back up to the OG12 spot since the bottom row will run out of room.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

https://sourcegaming.info/2020/03/09/this-is-my-role-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-598/

"The party continues! Firstly, the contents of these 6 DLC sets has already been decided. Secondly, there are no plans to make more beyond this. In other words, after we finish putting all our effort into these, work on Smash Bros Ultimate will finally be finished."

That pretty much convinced me this is it. No Bonus Echoes, nada. Of course, plans could change, but I wouldn't put much stock into more than 6 DLC sets. The wonky thing is that this doesn't make transformation fighters(as they'd have their own number) impossible. But I doubt it.

 

[Nekoo]

Seems that to cut down dev times, and a first for this game, and DLC, they directly reused Min Min model for arms with very minor changes from ARMS.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

A bit disappointing, because getting those quirky and cool smash peculiar tiny new design elements/Animation flow is always the coolest thing for me in fighters as a chara-designer, it's a shame.
Which really make me realize how even Animation wise, Min min is...Pretty no, amazingly boring? I don't know. It's just a shame, compared to joker's incredible dynamic animation, Terry's perfect recreation and modernization of classic moves even better than SNK themselves, Banjo full of love and reference from 64 and animations, Hero taking all cues from Shonen manga and DBZ itself, Byleth swift swordwhip play, wonky sword play, precise spear strike and powerful timing and anticipation with their axes...

A shame...I was excited for it, but in the end, the character is very boring...

 

[Will]

>be sakurai
>three long years
>finally
>finish smash ultimate dlc cycle
>go home to rest in epic gamer couch
>start hearing ticks on the window
>sounds like pebbles
>unveil curtains
>look out window
>waves of angry fans
>they're mad the CSS isn't a perfect square
>mfw

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

To be honest, I thought Min Min being an upgraded Spirit more or less showed that Spirits no longer disconfirmed, and I assumed there would be a new Spirit for her.

It will still come down to the individual character.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I think it could continue after Fighters Pass 2 but if it doesn’t I wouldn’t be to surprised. By the time Fighters Pass 2 is finished (if it really is finishing in December of 2021) then the Switch will be 4 months shy of being 5 years old. Life cycles for consoles usually last 5-8 years. Which means Smash could be getting prepared to move over to the Switch’s successor. I mean if we did get another pass that could feasibly last then another year with just 4 characters and that would mean the Switch would be 4 months shy of being 6 YEARS OLD. That’s insane to think about.

I think we might get another Fighters Pass of 4 characters but if that happens I’m 100% betting we’re getting an Ultimate DX in the following years... then that just opens up another can of worms. Do they stop with base DX like Mario Kart 8? Keep going like they did Pokken? The ride just gets wilder.

 

[Will]

A shame...I was excited for it, but in the end, the character is very boring...

How do you only come to this conclusion now after seeing a whole preview?

Also, the tweet is super important because I'm pretty sure that debunks the whole "[character] glitch = model for new character" meme.

 

[Jomosensual]

Do we know what they did with Min Mins spirit in world of light?

 

[Nekoo]

How do you only come to this conclusion now after seeing a whole preview?

Also, the tweet is super important because I'm pretty sure that debunks the whole "[character] glitch = model for new character" meme.

If you did read my post, you'll see that I'm not talking about the model in that part there, but the animation itself from the character in game.
From playing her.
Something I love to do as an animation student, is going to training mode, and look at all of the animations, taunt from all characters, some attacks in slow motion, and draw studies poses from key-frames.

However...Min Min is...Very boring in that plan.

 

[SneakyLink]

Do we know what they did with Min Mins spirit in world of light?

It’s completely unchanged

 

[Will]

Do we know what they did with Min Mins spirit in world of light?

If all DLC is unlocked from the get-go, I'd assume Min Min goes in with the rest of them.

Were people actually thinking she was gonna be a new unlock fight?

 

[N3ON]

I’m the one asking for 4 more echoes so that stacked/unstacked would be perfect. Not because I think it’s likely or even plausible, but because I’d like it.

I’ve also made rosters with 100 characters. Never was gonna happen, but it’s fun.

This isn’t a court of law, speculation doesn’t need evidence.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but speculation is fuelled and shaped by evidence. Every theory, every candidate or outcome considered plausible, is supported with evidence of some sort. Evidence that people believe to be meaningful, whether they end up wrong or right. Precedent or statement or attempting to read the terrain. An idea without some evidence is pure spitballing, and those don't gain much traction.

Right now, the argument against mine is using the evidence of the additional slots to drive their case.

So no, this isn't a court of law. But evidence is the resource that powers every halfway grounded speculative conversation about Smash.

 

[Shroob]

I think it could continue after Fighters Pass 2 but if it doesn’t I wouldn’t be to surprised. By the time Fighters Pass 2 is finished (if it really is finishing in December of 2021) then the Switch will be 4 months shy of being 5 years old. Life cycles for consoles usually last 5-8 years. Which means Smash could be getting prepared to move over to the Switch’s successor. I mean if we did get another pass that could feasibly last then another year with just 4 characters and that would mean the Switch would be 4 months shy of being 6 YEARS OLD. That’s insane to think about.

I think we might get another Fighters Pass of 4 characters but if that happens I’m 100% betting we’re getting an Ultimate DX in the following years... then that just opens up another can of worms. Do they stop with base DX like Mario Kart 8? Keep going like they did Pokken? The ride just gets wilder.

It's strange that despite all the rumors, the whole "Switch DX" or whatever it was called has never come to fruition. We got the Switch Lite, but the "Stronger Switch" has always been MIA.

 

[Ben Holt]

I'm not sure if you realize this, but speculation is fuelled and shaped by evidence. Every theory, every candidate or outcome considered plausible, is supported with evidence of some sort. Evidence that people believe to be meaningful, whether they end up wrong or right. Precedent or statement or attempting to read the terrain. An idea without some evidence is pure conjecture, and those don't gain much traction.

Right now, the argument against mine is using the evidence of the additional slots to drive their case.

So no, this isn't a court of law. But evidence is the resource that powers every halfway grounded speculative conversation about Smash.

And I think Spring Man's absence is evidence that Assist Trophies are not going to be upgraded.
I won't die on that hill, but I think that was the biggest hit Assist Trophies have taken since being Assist Trophies in the first place.
But I'd LOVE to be wrong. Long live Shovel Knight and Waluigi!

 

[Gribbo]

I wouldn't rule out the prospect of further characters after FP2, but I doubt it'd be anything big. If anything I think it'd probably be promotional stuff a la Byleth. Though that's not to say it'd only be new Fire Emblem or Pokemon, say if they made a new Dillon's Rolling Western game and wanted to promote it, I could see them putting him in or something. I just wouldn't expect anything on the scale of Terry again.

 

[Shroob]

I'm not sure if you realize this, but speculation is fuelled and shaped by evidence. Every theory, every candidate or outcome considered plausible, is supported with evidence of some sort. Evidence that people believe to be meaningful, whether they end up wrong or right. Precedent or statement or attempting to read the terrain. An idea without some evidence is pure spitballing, and those don't gain much traction.

Right now, the argument against mine is using the evidence of the additional slots to drive their case.

So no, this isn't a court of law. But evidence is the resource that powers every halfway grounded speculative conversation about Smash.

I just want it to all be over so I can order a poster of the tapestry.


I'm a simple man.

 

[N3ON]

I just want it to all be over so I can order a poster of the tapestry.


I'm a simple man.

It's gorgeous but looking at that thing for any extended amount of time gives me Grinch flashbacks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hey, y’know instead of trying to figure out what art Rex would use if he got in why don’t we just stan Elma? She has plenty of art they can use for the fighter spirit.

Or we can stop having this thread being an Elma/anti-Rex echo chamber.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I think it could continue after Fighters Pass 2 but if it doesn’t I wouldn’t be to surprised. By the time Fighters Pass 2 is finished (if it really is finishing in December of 2021) then the Switch will be 4 months shy of being 5 years old. Life cycles for consoles usually last 5-8 years. Which means Smash could be getting prepared to move over to the Switch’s successor. I mean if we did get another pass that could feasibly last then another year with just 4 characters and that would mean the Switch would be 4 months shy of being 6 YEARS OLD. That’s insane to think about.

I think we might get another Fighters Pass of 4 characters but if that happens I’m 100% betting we’re getting an Ultimate DX in the following years... then that just opens up another can of worms. Do they stop with base DX like Mario Kart 8? Keep going like they did Pokken? The ride just gets wilder.

I think one of the motivations for wanting more after FP2 is if they do move on to the next game—what would they do to be better than Ultimate? It’s why I wanted Ultimate to be a perennial title that just keeps getting new seasons, and I’m glad it’s gone as long as it has. If it does end on FP2, I’ll be content. But I’ll be very weary of another Smash game and would likely stick with Ultimate.

As for an Ultimate DX, that would require licensing from Konami, Sega, Capcom, Bandai, Square, Microsoft and SNK, as well as any other third party that comes on board in Vol. 2. And Cloud was likely the reason why Everyone is Here almost never happened.

A new game with most characters coming back gets around that problem by not having to get every character back, but a DX would require every third party being on board. I’d love it, particularly if they encorporated DLC into WOL, but I just unfortunately don’t see it happening. I want the complete package, though.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but speculation is fuelled and shaped by evidence. Every theory, every candidate or outcome considered plausible, is supported with evidence of some sort. Evidence that people believe to be meaningful, whether they end up wrong or right. Precedent or statement or attempting to read the terrain. An idea without some evidence is pure spitballing, and those don't gain much traction.

Right now, the argument against mine is using the evidence of the additional slots to drive their case.

So no, this isn't a court of law. But evidence is the resource that powers every halfway grounded speculative conversation about Smash.

It’s why I’m making a distinction between my predictions and my wants. I predict nothing after Vol 2, but I’d love for x, y and z to happen. After I got my dream character I was content, and fell off of speculation. But came back, not wanting to predict what would happen, but throwing out fun ideas.

I spent a long time prior to Ultimate coming out coming up with theories trying to figure out what would happen, caring deeply about gathering what evidence I had at my disposal, shooting down any theory that conflicted with the evidence I gathered. And I was still wrong about Isabelle being an echo, 103 stages being it, Box theory, the fake Grinch leak. I was so wrong, the only thing I got right was Banjo & Kazooie being in due to Verge’s Microsoft rumor, and I was still wrong about them being in the base because I took what Sakurai said at face value that DLC wasn’t being worked on until after the game was completed. I realized speculating to be right was a lot more draining and disheartening than speculating for fun. But I have the luxury of being content, and am not telling anybody else how they should speculate. People do it for different reasons.

 

[Shroob]

It's gorgeous but looking at that thing for any extended amount of time gives me Grinch flashbacks.

As long as it doesn't have a single, misplaced green pixel, we'll all be ok.

 

[Will]

It's gorgeous but looking at that thing for any extended amount of time gives me Grinch flashbacks.

Why do you have ptsd over a fake leak?

 

[Ben Holt]

Why do you have ptsd over a fake leak?

You would too if you were an Isaac fan.

 

[Nekoo]

Why do you have ptsd over a fake leak?

Anyone who spend their time here, in smashboard, and saw how toxic the community was over this leak because if "confirmed" characters, with the most crazy of reach would and should get PTSD over it.

Never again.
This moment was arguably the worst in the smash community as a whole.