Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Al-kīmiyā']

I wonder if Sakurai has played The World Ends With You. Anybody know?

 

[Deleted member]

Given this community, I'm willing to bet every single character on the roster has been criticized on once or twice.

Yeah like why THE **** IS MARIO HERE?!

All he does is Jump and shoot Fireballs wow so original. He's by far the least unique "Mario" character out there even compared to his other counterparts it's so stupid we have him on this roster when we could've just as easily gotten stuff like Geno, Waluigi, Ashley, Toad or many many more.

Sure he has history but it's so lame when people hold a character up due to perceived history and legacy instead of much more functionally unique characters such as the previous ones I mentioned among others.

Mario has never been unique so unless you're a Mario main or a Mario fan the only reason you may like him is due to memes. SMH get better taste Sakurai.

 

[Knight Dude]

If we're bringing up the Spirit stuff again, I would still say it's unlikely, but not impossible. Chances are most of the characters pick for season 2 are characters from really different titles. So for me, I won't knock a character off entirely, but it is VERY much a "See it when I believe it" sort of deal.

If the character needs other spirits to come with them, that's harder for some than for others. Mega Man X gets in? Well the Spirit fights could be based on Maverick bosses from his games, just like Classic Mega Man having a lot of Robot Masters in his spirits. There's also fights that could be based on his various armors too(like Samus), then popular characters like Vile as well.

A new Pokemon gets added? There's quite a few other Gen-8 Pokemon to pull images for to fill out a Spirit Board. Heck even some older ones could be put in as spirits if need be, but Pokemon has so many options, it wouldn't be needed if you ask me. There's also Gigantimax versions of certain Pokemon, which would make for pretty easy Spirit fights of fighting a Giant Pikachu or Giant Charizard.

Granted I think stuff like Astral Chain could probably do a solid job, if you take the supporting cast, and the weapon types as distinct battles.

 

[Sour Supreme]

What are the odds that Pass 2 is predominantly first party?

Hard to say if Byleth is setting any sort of tone here.

 

[Icedragonadam]

What are the odds that Pass 2 is predominantly first party?

Hard to say if Byleth is setting any sort of tone here.

Considering guest characters sell much more than 1st party characters in fighting games, I still think it'll mainly be 3rd parties. That and the fact that Vol 2 will have the same content as vol 1, which means it'll still be games/series with no content in Ultimate. There might be one or two from a game coming out this year or Dragalia Lost as it's a new Nintendo Ip released that still has no content in Smash.

 

[Goombaic]

No, that's not all Sw/Sh has to offer, but those are also literally the most important Pokemon of this generation. This is like if we got Spirits of Byleth, Edelgard, Claude, and Dmitri. Plenty of great characters beyond those 4 in Three Houses, but also literally the most important ones and the stuff you would go for if including Sword/Shield in later on. There is literally zero reason to blow the 7 of the most important Pokemon in the generation if you're going to include them later. I consider it dead in the water because they went right for the throat of Sw/Sh's base game and there is zero precedent to the idea that Spirits would be used as a "way to get people off the scent" of the real DLC because Sakurai has literally never operated like that once and has never once cared about this phenomenon in any situation because, again, the people who speculate all the time about the game are not worth investing resources to bamboozle.

No Wooloo
No Yamper
No G-Max forms

I understand why a spirit event does not bode well for Pokemon, but let's not pretend that it's met its doom just yet or that spirit events have much rhyme or reason. They would still have more than enough content for the spirit board. At the very least, even if it breaks my heart, another spirit event is more than justified for SwSh because they've barely touched the tip of the iceberg with their spirit selections and they have double-dipped with events before. Sure, they lost the starters, legendaries, and I guess the Pikaclone, but they still have the aforementioned Pokemon, the final starter forms, Eternatus, and several fan-favorite Galar Pokemon to turn into spirits. I know the main point is that those spirits would be taking content away from from the challenger pack but let me make a lightyear reach: they could include the spirits already in the game in the spirit board if they really wanted to. Not the first time content would only be free for a limited time. "Why would he go through the effort of adding them now if they'll be added with a later fighter anyway?" I don't know. Neither would anyone if a Pokemon is actually added, so that can't really be discussed. Lastly, I know you're exaggerating a bit, but let's not equivocate the HM replacement and the Pikaclone with literally the selling point of Three Houses.

 

[Krankees]

What are the odds that Pass 2 is predominantly first party?

Hard to say if Byleth is setting any sort of tone here.

I don't think we'll get that many first parties. At the very least, one or two of them.

 

[NintenRob]

What are the odds that Pass 2 is predominantly first party?

Hard to say if Byleth is setting any sort of tone here.

I hope we get more, most third party franchises I have connection with are already in.


And we still don't have a modern Kirby stage damn it.

 

[DevaAshera]

I hope we get more, most third party franchises I have connection with are already in.


And we still don't have a modern Kirby stage damn it.

Considering content Sakurai tends to like to include in Smash for the Kirby series, I'd say its likely that that's not going to change, even if they added a new stage.

 

[N3ON]

I wonder if Sakurai has played The World Ends With You. Anybody know?

Sakurai played 242 Playstation games in 2019. Just Playstation games. And just in 2019.

I'm sure he's played TWEWY.

 

[NintenRob]

Considering content Sakurai tends to like to include in Smash for the Kirby series, I'd say its likely that that's not going to change, even if they added a new stage.

I don't care what Sakurais done in the past, I still want it to change.

Same with Zelda character

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Sakurai played 242 Playstation games in 2019. Just Playstation games. And just in 2019.

I'm sure he's played TWEWY.

Then why isn't Neku in yet? Explain that, genius!

 

[N3ON]

Then why isn't Neku in yet? Explain that, genius!

Don't worry, out of all the games Sakurai has played, his is number 136 out of 12,608 in line for Smash.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Sakurai played 242 Playstation games in 2019. Just Playstation games. And just in 2019.

I'm sure he's played TWEWY.

With the amount of Playstation games he played, what do you think the odds are that he played The Last of Us?

 

[Deleted member]

With the amount of Playstation games he played, what do you think the odds are that he played The Last of Us?

Very high considering The Last of Us is very critically acclaimed, Popular and considered one of the best Playstation games to come out in recent memory by many.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Very high considering The Last of Us is very critically acclaimed, Popular and considered one of the best Playstation games to come out in recent memory by many.

Right. But the odds are extremely low that we would get a Last of Us Character.

 

[N3ON]

With the amount of Playstation games he played, what do you think the odds are that he played The Last of Us?

Very high.

But the real point of him playing 242 games on one console in one year is that Sakurai plays so many games that trying to come to Smash-related deductions based on what he plays is pointless, he ostensibly plays damn near everything.

I'm not saying you specifically were intimating one informed the other, but just generally it's important people realize as much.

 

[BirthNote]

That's a fan-rule due to a mistranslation. Sakurai never said a Nintendo appearance was required. He simply called it a courtesy(and realistically, it only helps their chances since getting the licensing again is a lot easier when Nintendo and the other company already worked together).

Do you have a source for this? I remember seeing it before but I can't remember how to find it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Spoiler: Spirits discussion

I think basegame spirits could still become playable, because they were chosen before Volume 2 was planned and Sakurai could very well change his mind and decide to make at least one playable due to having another opportunity for them (since he may think about some of them as playable, but prioritized others, however still wanted the characters in the game in someway, so he and his team made them spirits; when initially unplanned DLC comes around, he could revisit a character idea and make them playable due to wanting them as such). Not really any proof he would, but not really any that he definitely wouldn’t, either.

I’m sure he also knows fighters are seen as the best thing for some characters to be, too, because he said “Even though he still isn’t in as a playable fighter, I made sure he’d be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something” about Geno, so I think he clearly sees it as a “better than nothing” deal and I’m sure he’s tried for Geno in the past (based on how he’s said he has wanted to put him in as far back as Brawl) but then decided to prioritize other series. He could see the spirit the same way, even if a Mii costume may be seen as better, but he could very well see Volume 2 as an opportunity to add him if Square and Nintendo are both fine with it. SMRPG should count as a new world, too, as we only have the Geno and Mallow spirits, with the world itself and its large amount of other unique characters and its unique locations not really represented at all, and there’s a good amount of original music as well. This could go for others like Shantae, too, plus he could very well decide to add a character even if they don’t necessarily bring a new world; at least one, but he likely would focus on new franchises tbh. (Also, I don’t particularly see Byleth as being from a “new world” either. Sure, maybe TH’s world is separate from the other games, but it’s still the same franchise and I doubt Sakurai would’ve said “no” if the world was connected or basically the same and/or older characters such as Marth made appearances)

Honestly, though, this argument has been done to death and seems to come up even if the fact that the character is a spirit isn’t mentioned. It’s absolutely fine for any of y’all to think Spirits aren’t gonna become playable, of course (I don’t think post-release spirits are gonna be playable, myself), I guess it just feels as if discussions around spirit characters get completely shut down aside from this one single argument so it’s not very fun or interesting - though, I suppose from speculating “which one could get upgraded?” there’s not much else to talk about regarding it, either, and the topic I just mentioned could also get old very fast...

At least no one is forcing it, though, which may be part of why the whole discussion kinda feels bothersome imo, due to a lot of people pushing “he’s already a spirit, so he’s disconfirmed” as a fact a lot in the past, especially some trolls whom were annoying with it...and, well, to be honest, it comes up so often it feels like a way to tell people to control their hype, like a guideline...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Sakurai loves video games as an art form. He plays all sorts of games to get a feel for the industry, or it at least seems that way.

He’s an awesome guy. Doesn’t believe in console wars, and some of everything...Kratos clearly confirmed!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

What are the odds that Pass 2 is predominantly first party?

Hard to say if Byleth is setting any sort of tone here.

I'm expecting half of them to be first party simply due to this games age and probably a lower budget.

Said budget in mind is why I'm keeping my expectations small so I don't be disappointed if/When my most wanted doesn't show up.

 

[DevaAshera]

I don't care what Sakurais done in the past, I still want it to change.

Same with Zelda character

I mean, I agree with you, but then that opens up a whole new issue..
If they keep adding a new Zelda character who's a one off, eventually the Zelda series will end up with the same problem as the Fire Emblem series and we'd always be afraid of the next game. I mean, say they add Skull Kid or Ghirahim..they would be at the most risk to be cut out of Zelda characters since they'd be unlikely to reappear in future titles and their relevance has dropped and they'd rather include a character from a newer game.

Then why isn't Neku in yet? Explain that, genius!

-Looks at various Final Fantasies, Dragon Quests, NieR Automata, and Tomb Raider-
I'm not sure..

 

[Ridrool64]

****, you know what I really want to see get a PreMiium Costume that likely will never get one?

Buck Bumble. With this song in particular. Buck Bumble is the perfect example of a character that will not get in Smash in any way whatsoever, but any way to get this song in the game makes up for every single flaw in Ultimate, Smash 4, Brawl, Melee, 64, and the history of the world leading up to this moment.

Okay but seriously the song is a banger but attached to a character that COULD be fun but has absolutely no business being in Smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

****, you know what I really want to see get a PreMiium Costume that likely will never get one?

Buck Bumble. With this song in particular. Buck Bumble is the perfect example of a character that will not get in Smash in any way whatsoever, but any way to get this song in the game makes up for every single flaw in Ultimate, Smash 4, Brawl, Melee, 64, and the history of the world leading up to this moment.

Okay but seriously the song is a banger but attached to a character that COULD be fun but has absolutely no business being in Smash.

You my good man have impeccable tastes.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If they keep adding a new Zelda character who's a one off, eventually the Zelda series will end up with the same problem as the Fire Emblem series and we'd always be afraid of the next game. I mean, say they add Skull Kid or Ghirahim..they would be at the most risk to be cut out of Zelda characters since they'd be unlikely to reappear in future titles and their relevance has dropped and they'd rather include a character from a newer game.

Are you saying that we shouldn't want a new Zelda character because they'd only stick around for one game?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Are you saying that we shouldn't want a new Zelda character because they'd only stick around for one game?

That's a flawed argument because most of Ultimates roster is only going to be around for one game lol

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

That's a flawed argument because most of Ultimates roster is only going to be around for one game lol

I'd like them to confirm their meaning before I bother making arguments.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Come to think of it … Geno would be an Echo of Sans and Cuphead, wouldn't he? All three of them share so much in common, actually.
Geno is made of wood, which comes from trees.
A certain tree produces maple syrup, which flavors certain cereals.
Then you pick out whatever cereal brand you like that has maple flavoring and pair it with milk.
Milk resembles the fluid above Cuphead, and milk is known to promote healthy bone growth thanks to its calcium-rich content.

Ergo, it stands to reason that Geno would play exactly as Sans and Cuphead would. But hey, no judgment! I think they all make positive role-models.

Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong here.

 

[Deleted member]

Come to think of it … Geno would be an Echo of Sans and Cuphead, wouldn't he? All three of them share so much in common, actually.
Geno is made of wood, which comes from trees.
A certain tree produces maple syrup, which flavors certain cereals.
Then you pick out whatever cereal brand you like that has maple flavoring and pair it with milk.
Milk resembles the fluid above Cuphead, and milk is known to promote healthy bone growth thanks to its calcium-rich content.

Ergo, it stands to reason that Geno would play exactly as Sans and Cuphead would. But hey, no judgment! I think they all make positive role-models.
View attachment 259326
Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong here.

You're definitely not wrong. In fact, that was literally a 200 IQ post. Bigyan ng jacket!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Very high.

But the real point of him playing 242 games on one console in one year is that Sakurai plays so many games that trying to come to Smash-related deductions based on what he plays is pointless, he ostensibly plays damn near everything.

I'm not saying you specifically were intimating one informed the other, but just generally it's important people realize as much.

While I agree, I also think it's valid to take a look at what Sakurai has said about different games to draw inferences about how high he holds some series and how they may have influenced Sakurai, either now or in the past.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Do you have a source for this? I remember seeing it before but I can't remember how to find it.

It's here, translated from Source gaming https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

 

[Flik]

I have this pipe dream of getting a Flik (from Genso Suikoden) Mii Costume, because I've been using this avatar for almost 15 years and it would be a huge full-circle moment to me lol Suikoden is nearly impossible to get a fighter anyway because (sadly) the series is f'n dead, but even then, there would be competition with not only the protagonists but also other popular characters like Victor, Yuber, or even Gremio.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I have this pipe dream of getting a Flik (from Genso Suikoden) Mii Costume, because I've been using this avatar for almost 15 years and it would be a huge full-circle moment to me lol Suikoden is nearly impossible to get a fighter anyway because (sadly) the series is f'n dead, but even then, there would be competition with not only the protagonists but also other popular characters like Victor, Yuber, or even Gremio.

Nash Latkje would be cool.

 

[N3ON]

While I agree, I also think it's valid to take a look at what Sakurai has said about different games to draw inferences about how high he holds some series and how they may have influenced Sakurai, either now or in the past.

I hear he holds DOOM in high regard

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I hear he holds DOOM in high regard

Look. I get it. Series he "likes" or writes about don't have any perks in the grand scheme of it all, but I think it at least points to something. Statements on Kingdom Hearts and the parallel he draws from it to Smash or his article gushing about the story of Nier: Automata and the entire Nier and Drakengard series (along with the [E]xperience in Ultimate) are points worthy of speculating on instead of being just thrown to the side.

 

[BirthNote]

It's here, translated from Source gaming https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/10/05/sakuraithirdparty/

Thank you very much.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Look. I get it. Series he "likes" or writes about don't have any perks in the grand scheme of it all, but I think it at least points to something. Statements on Kingdom Hearts and the parallel he draws from it to Smash or his article gushing about the story of Nier: Automata and the entire Nier and Drakengard series (along with the [E]xperience in Ultimate) are points worthy of speculating on instead of being just thrown to the side.

It at the very least signals that he is familiar with a game/the game in question is on his radar.

 

[N3ON]

Look. I get it. Series he "likes" or writes about don't have any perks in the grand scheme of it all, but I think it at least points to something. Statements on Kingdom Hearts and the parallel he draws from it to Smash or his article gushing about the story of Nier: Automata and the entire Nier and Drakengard series (along with the [E]xperience in Ultimate) are points worthy of speculating on instead of being just thrown to the side.

The more informed you are, the more educated your opinion becomes. I wouldn't argue that it behooves you to stay up to speed on what's said.

And I don't question why Sakurai name-dropping titles causes a buzz, but at the end of the day, very few things actually mean anything in terms of Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai played 242 Playstation games in 2019.

Seeing his trophy list would be a dream come true.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Given this community, I'm willing to bet every single character on the roster has been criticized on once or twice.

I don't like that Mario fellow, I bet he is the one who has actually been Peach's kidnapper all this time.