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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cutie Gwen

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we're definitely getting a general direct in february. would be dumb if they made us wait till E3.
Again, Nintendo has shown they are indees very dumb. "This is gonna be the last Chibi Robo game unless it sells decently, let's proceed to not market it at all. In fact, let's not market any of our new IPs at all, making them flop, which would reflect to us that nobody wants new IPs and just more Mario, Zelda and Fire Emblem"
 

Wunderwaft

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If we do wait until E3 for our first character reveal then that's a dumb marketing decision by Nintendo. Joker was revealed earlier than he was supposed to because Nintendo needed someone to sell people on the fighters pass, currently there isn't anyone selling the second fighters pass to the public. Barely anybody is gonna buy the second pass when it goes live since there is currently nothing interesting from the second pass besides the fact that we're getting six fighters and we have to wait until December 2021.
 

TheCJBrine

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I’m expecting the next reveal to be whenever the next direct is. We’re able to pre-purchase the pass at the end of this month, they’re not gonna make people wait until E3, right? I expect by early March at the absolute latest (though it should really be early next month if not later this month).
 
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I.D.

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Yes, Nintendo would never make us wait 4 months for a character reveal or anything.
 
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Dukemon102

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I mean. Nobody rolled an eye when Mewtwo became DLC. Pokémon wasn't widely controversial when Incineroar was announced, he only caused salt because he was getting in over many fan-requested characters (Also, Grinch Leak). This time, Gen 8 Pokémon is been seen just as Byleth (AKA "another FE rep"), as an obstacle to get the character we personally want that takes a spot of the Fighter Pass.

The controversy of Pokémon Sw/Sh is just a additional flame that will cause even more anger.
 
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Us3inMN

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Why is everyone complaining about too many FE reps when Mario technically has 9?

Also, I'm saying this right now - we are getting a Sakurai Mii Costume at some point. Just his signature clothes that he wears for each Smash Direct.

im taking a screenshot right now just to be safe
 
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Michael the Spikester

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If we do wait until E3 for our first character reveal then that's a dumb marketing decision by Nintendo. Joker was revealed earlier than he was supposed to because Nintendo needed someone to sell people on the fighters pass, currently there isn't anyone selling the second fighters pass to the public. Barely anybody is gonna buy the second pass when it goes live since there is currently nothing interesting from the second pass besides the fact that we're getting six fighters and we have to wait until December 2021.
Except Joker was decided at the last minute at the game awards. If they didn't we probably would had waited until January as we did with Byleth.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I mean. Nobody rolled an eye when Mewtwo became DLC. Pokémon wasn't widely controversial when Incineroar was announced, he only caused salt because he was getting in over many fan-requested characters (Also, Grinch Leak). This time, Gen 8 Pokémon is been seeing just as Byleth (AKA "another FE rep"), as an obstacle to get the character we personally want that takes an spot of the Fighter Pass.

The controversy of Pokémon Sw/Sh is just a additional flame that will cause even more anger.
Ehhh, Mewtwo wasn't a newcomer though, people were outright pissed when Mewtwo got 'replaced' by Lucario and Mewtwo consistently topped all the fan polls, being a veteran does that
 

Cosmic77

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I mean it's not just getting one more character than FE got in Smash 4, it's a series getting five characters in one game, which has never happened before. Regardless, I don't think having another Pokemon added would be any more fair than having Byleth added if you honestly care about series representation, especially when series like Zelda/Kirby/DK/Xenoblade need them far more.
It's not about "needing" a new character or series representation. It's about taking opportunities to add characters from newer games.

What I'm trying to get at is that FE, Pokemon, and many others have gotten new games on the Switch. If FE can get a newcomer from a new game via DLC, I don't see why other franchises can't either. As of now, FE is the only first-party franchise that's gotten what the fanbase would dub as a "promotional character", and I'd be more than a little offended if every other Switch game got ignored when it's already happened to FE twice now. Just doesn't feel right.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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I mean. Nobody rolled an eye when Mewtwo became DLC. Pokémon wasn't widely controversial when Incineroar was announced, he only caused salt because he was getting in over many fan-requested characters (Also, Grinch Leak). This time, Gen 8 Pokémon is been seen just as Byleth (AKA "another FE rep"), as an obstacle to get the character we personally want that takes a spot of the Fighter Pass.

The controversy of Pokémon Sw/Sh is just a additional flame that will cause even more anger.
On top of that, Mewtwo was a long requested veteran that had a special status as the only non clone character cut from Melee to Brawl. With Dr. Mario getting in, outcries for his inclusion were stronger than ever at the time of his reveal.

I don't think any individual Pokemon in particular has that kind of fan desire right now.
 
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Krankees

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ok so

yeah i know, "leakers" but this is kinda suspicious. This guy said Byleth was FP5 back in October, that Crash is next, neither Smash nor BOTW2 would be at TGA, MK11 WOULD be at TGA, and "direct on thurs" on the 13th. some part of me feels like something's a bit off though

https://twitter.com/MandyCanNot
A lot of his statements seemed pretty safe. MK11 showing up at TGA, BOTW2 not showing up, and the smash reveal not being at TGA seemed like safe choices to go with. Even the direct on Thursday tweet could've been a guess as there have been cases where directs follow after Pokemon directs or at least that's what I've heard. I think this person just got lucky with Byleth.
 

Captain Shwampy

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Would better if they did reveals like:

Q1: 1st character
E3: 2nd
Winter: 3rd

and again next year for the remaining 3
 

StrawHatX

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Yes, Nintendo makes stupid decisions all the time. But I can’t see them waiting until the summer to let us know what the first fighter in pass 2 will be.

They’re selling this thing for $30 in a little over a week. I’m sure we’ll know who the first character is by the next Nintendo Direct. It only took a month for them to reveal Joker and THEN we didn’t get the next reveal until E3.

We’ll definitely know at least Fighter 6 before June. They want us to buy this thing as soon as possible.
 

Wunderwaft

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Except Joker was decided at the last minute at the game awards. If they didn't we probably would had waited until January as we did with Byleth.
I've seen a lot of people claim Joker was a last minute thing for the game awards yet I haven't seen any evidence or sources for this. Animating a trailer and working with voice actors requires a lot of time. Joker's Japanese voice actor in particular is popular and busy. No way was this decided at the last minute, it was clearly planned for some time.
 

Knight Dude

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I find it hilarious that despite so many fan rules being broken in the past, people like you still have the need to act all high and mighty about which characters they absolutely know will not make it in.

Like it's perfectly fine if you don't think AT/spirit promotions have a chance (even I don't see them as likely), but I legit cringe when people try to gatekeep by saying stuff like "AT/spirit promotions won't happen, stop being delusional!" as if they worked on the game themselves.
Yeah, what was the list of "rules" that have been changed? I'm also doubting we'll see Spirit and ESPECIALLY AT upgrades. The former I feel has a slight chance, since they don't have a major gameplay influence outside of stat boosts in some gameplay modes.

We can only have Nintendo characters: "Aight bet." :ultsnake:
Nintendo and Sega still hate each other: "Aight bet.":ultsonic:
A third party company only gets ONE character: "Oh? On God?" :ultmegaman::ultryu:
A third party franchise can only get ONE character: "Aight bet." :ultsimon::ultrichter:
Ridley is too Big. "Aight bet." :ultridley:
Villager is too peaceful. "Aight bet." x2 :ultvillager::ultisabelle:
A Final Smash cameo like Chrom can't be playable. "Aight bet.":ultchrom:
Relevant characters only. "Aight bet." x a lot. :ultrob::ultkrool: ect.
No characters made by another company. "Aight bet." :ultbanjokazooie:

It might sometimes seem like an exception than the rule. But we've been through this song and dance before.
 

Flyboy

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It'd be pretty neat if we got another bait-and-switch like Joker. Nintendo Direct, "one more thing", and then a fade in to something that seems like a game trailer at first.

My preference would of course be a swerve trailer that leads into Travis Touchdown, but it'd also be very very cool if a certain Pod got an Alert.
 

TheCJBrine

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I know Nintendo makes some dumb or seemingly dumb decisions, but come on, Pass 2 goes up for sale the same day Byleth gets released, they can’t honestly expect to make big bucks from it when we don’t know a single thing about it and make us wait about 4 and a half months, even if a lot of people would likely pre-purchase it anyway.
 

Cutie Gwen

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It'd be pretty neat if we got another bait-and-switch like Joker. Nintendo Direct, "one more thing", and then a fade in to something that seems like a game trailer at first.

My preference would of course be a swerve trailer that leads into Travis Touchdown, but it'd also be very very cool if a certain Pod got an Alert.
Nah fam. The best way to do it is start off with another Fire Emblem character. However it plays out, don't know, don't care. Before the FE character can grab the invite, you hear a motorcycle's brakes screeching and Travis Akira-slides to steal the invite. "Fat chance you're getting in, time to show the good boys and girls how awesome sword users can REALLY be"
 

Knight Dude

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Why is everyone complaining about too many FE reps when Mario technically has 9?

Also, I'm saying this right now - we are getting a Sakurai Mii Costume at some point. Just his signature clothes that he wears for each Smash Direct.

im taking a screenshot right now just to be safe
Fire Emblem: Pretty popular.

Mario: BIG POPULAR. Face of the company. Even Grandma and Grandpa now Super Mayreeo.

Mario's popular enough that secondary character from a 20 year old spin-off made by Square is a huge request.
 
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Flyboy

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Nah fam. The best way to do it is start off with another Fire Emblem character. However it plays out, don't know, don't care. Before the FE character can grab the invite, you hear a motorcycle's brakes screeching and Travis Akira-slides to steal the invite. "Fat chance you're getting in, time to show the good boys and girls how awesome sword users can REALLY be"
I need Lorenz to get punked by Travis, Gwen. I need Lorenz to get ****ing owned.
 

Wunderwaft

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Nah fam. The best way to do it is start off with another Fire Emblem character. However it plays out, don't know, don't care. Before the FE character can grab the invite, you hear a motorcycle's brakes screeching and Travis Akira-slides to steal the invite. "Fat chance you're getting in, time to show the good boys and girls how awesome sword users can REALLY be"
I REALLY want this to happen lol
 

Eldrake

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A lot of his statements seemed pretty safe. MK11 showing up at TGA, BOTW2 not showing up, and the smash reveal not being at TGA seemed like safe choices to go with. Even the direct on Thursday tweet could've been a guess as there have been cases where directs follow after Pokemon directs or at least that's what I've heard. I think this person just got lucky with Byleth.
He also could have quietly deleted tweets that didn't line up with reality. I remember that there was (is?) a twitter account that allegedly predicted every outcome of The International (Dota's annual grand tournament), but in reality the owner had hundreds of these written in advance and simply deleted every tweet that didn't line up with the results.
 

Flyboy

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I mean, as much as we all want Lorenz to get ****ing owned, Travis is a significantly worse person from the get go lmao
I think that's what makes it hilarious. Travis sucks. He's the worst. But also, everyone loves seeing Lorenz get bullied.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Fire Emblem getting another character was essentially a band-aid that needed to be ripped off. Whether people like it or not, Three Houses was always a front-running candidate to get another character either now, or for Season 2. While I mostly expected the 5th pick being 3rd party, I always viewed Three Houses and Astral Chain as exceptions.

Frankly, I think the Fire Emblem hate, while understandable, ignores the context of the series and its relationship with Smash in the first place. We get Marth because he's popular and is a different type of sword-user to Link. As it's a new franchise to Smash, Roy is also brought in because of his new game coming in Japan, but also because he can be different from Marth. Roy was later brought back due to fan request during Smash Wii U DLC, being differentiated from Marth in the process, now playing nearly nothing like him.

Ike was added as a character from a newer game, which came from the FIre Emblem series, and Sakurai was looking for a heavy sword user. Despite Ike being quite fast in his base games, this could work for Smash. Ganondorf was not an option to declone, because there are abilities Ike brings to the table that Ganondorf does not, and he's a newer character at this point. Made sense to go with that decision.

Robin is added to Wii U because, unlike Chrom at the time, it made more sense to put in resources for a character that brings something quite new to the table. Lucina is added to pad the roster, just like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. These three were selected because of resources that could be passed onto them, as they essentially share the shape, size, and moveset of their counterparts. This is not the same thing as, say, Dixie Kong over Diddy Kong, or some other choice. They were deliberate, but it also should be mentioned that Lucina was a popular character, and still is.

Corrin, while undeniably the more controversial pick, was added due to the search of a character from a newer game. The best justification I can come up with for this pick is that, frankly, with a mascot fighting game, main protagonists will always have the appeal over side characters to a general audience...the people you're targeting with most picks in DLC additions. I may be wrong, but there weren't really that many other recognizable games at the time that would have these requirements. Corrin also brought something new to the table.

Chrom gets in because he's a popular pick that requires few resources at the time, thereby getting into the game in the same way that Dark Samus or Richter Belmont get into the game. He is still functionally different from any other Fire Emblem character in the roster. Little time and resources, well thought out pay off in the end.

Byleth, our latest addition, brings a variety of weapons that people have been begging for in addition to their sword. They also come from a game that was quite successful (though they were chosen prior to the release of said game), but Byleth does bring something new to the table. Saying "they bring nothing" is a blatant falsehood. Other major releases at that point, such as anything Mario, Zelda, or otherwise do not have the same character pool of main protagonists that Fire Emblem has. We also have no idea how Game Freak works with Sword & Shield, while I don't know about them being against a SwSh fighter, I'm not sure if that would have been a production for the development team.

It is not Sakurai's fault that the Fire Emblem characters have similar designs- that is on Intelligent Systems. However, there's so much more to the characters than the color of their hair...that's something that I wouldn't think would need to be said at this point. You don't have to like Fire Emblem as a series, and you don't have to be alright with it after me suggesting these things, but I hope this provides some perspective. It's not all favoritism. I would argue it's not that cut and dry. At the very least, we're basically in the clear for any further characters until a future Smash game which...who knows when that will happen?
 
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Us3inMN

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Yeah, what was the list of "rules" that have been changed? I'm also doubting we'll see Spirit and ESPECIALLY AT upgrades. The former I feel has a slight chance, since they don't have a major gameplay influence outside of stat boosts in some gameplay modes.

It might sometimes seem like an exception than the rule. But we've been through this song and dance before.
I just think that once you are in the game in some way, that's it. I have not seen any proof that Spirit/Trophy/Stage Hazard/Background Characters will become fighters.

"But Little Mac, Dark Samus, and Isabelle were Assist Trophies!" I hear people say.

True, but why would Nintendo just pluck out an Assist Trophy and then make you pay money to use them? I already had them in the game, now I'm paying to bring them back? What about players who liked that Assist Trophy/liked that character as an Assist Trophy?
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I REALLY want this to happen lol
For real, Travis is the only character I can think of to break the fourth wall like that, while Sothis and Robin broke the fourth wall with swordies jokes, Travis, one of the most obnoxious toxic nerds in fiction, breaking the wall for one of these complaints is just a perfect thing for him to do alongside his general snarky asshole demeanor
 

I.D.

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Fire Emblem getting another character was essentially a band-aid that needed to be ripped off. Whether people like it or not, Three Houses was always a front-running candidate to get another character either now, or for Season 2. While I mostly expected the 5th pick being 3rd party, I always viewed Three Houses and Astral Chain as exceptions.

Frankly, I think the Fire Emblem hate, while understandable, ignores the context of the series and its relationship with Smash in the first place. We get Marth because he's popular and is a different type of sword-user to Link. As it's a new franchise to Smash, Roy is also brought in because of his new game coming in Japan, but also because he can be different from Marth. Roy was later brought back due to fan request during Smash Wii U DLC, being differentiated from Marth in the process, now playing nearly nothing like him.

Ike was added as a character from a newer game, which came from the FIre Emblem series, and Sakurai was looking for a heavy sword user. Despite Ike being quite fast in his base games, this could work for Smash. Ganondorf was not an option to declone, because there are abilities Ike brings to the table that Ganondorf does not, and he's a newer character at this point. Made sense to go with that decision.

Robin is added to Wii U because, unlike Chrom at the time, it made more sense to put in resources for a character that brings something quite new to the table. Lucina is added to pad the roster, just like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. These three were selected because of resources that could be passed onto them, as they essentially share the shape, size, and moveset of their counterparts. This is not the same thing as, say, Dixie Kong over Diddy Kong, or some other choice. They were deliberate, but it also should be mentioned that Lucina was a popular character, and still is.

Corrin, while undeniably the more controversial pick, was added due to the search of a character from a newer game. The best justification I can come up with for this pick is that, frankly, with a mascot fighting game, main protagonists will always have the appeal over side characters to a general audience...the people you're targeting with most picks in DLC additions. I may be wrong, but there weren't really that many other recognizable games at the time that would have these requirements. Corrin also brought something new to the table.

Chrom gets in because he's a popular pick that requires few resources at the time, thereby getting into the game in the same way that Dark Samus or Richter Belmont get into the game. He is still functionally different from any other Fire Emblem character in the roster. Little time and resources, well thought out pay off in the end.

Byleth, our latest addition, brings a variety of weapons that people have been begging for in addition to their sword. They also come from a game that was quite successful (though they were chosen prior to the release of said game), but Byleth does bring something new to the table. Saying "they bring nothing" is a blatant falsehood. Other major releases at that point, such as anything Mario, Zelda, or otherwise do not have the same character pool of main protagonists that Fire Emblem has. We also have no idea how Game Freak works with Sword & Shield, while I don't know about them being against a SwSh fighter, I'm not sure if that would have been a production for the development team.

It is not Sakurai's fault that the Fire Emblem characters have similar designs- that is on Intelligent Systems. However, there's so much more to the characters than the color of their hair...that's something that I wouldn't think would need to be said at this point. You don't have to like Fire Emblem as a series, and you don't have to be alright with it after me suggesting these things, but I hope this provides some perspective. It's not all favoritism. I would argue it's not that cut and dry. At the very least, we're basically in the clear for any further characters until a future Smash game which...who knows when that will happen?
You could say Fire Emblem was... a victim of circumstance.
 

Us3inMN

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For real, Travis is the only character I can think of to break the fourth wall like that, while Sothis and Robin broke the fourth wall with swordies jokes, Travis, one of the most obnoxious toxic nerds in fiction, breaking the wall for one of these complaints is just a perfect thing for him to do alongside his general snarky asshole demeanor
Really throw people through a loop and swerve a Codec call into a new fighter.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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not expecting any duel reveals tbh, otherwise, the announcement windows would be a little screwy

our deadline is 23 months away

23 months ago was February 2018, literally the month before Ultimate was even announced.

We've got 17 character announcements within that period

and this is only for 6 characters

they need to space out these things properly, or else we'd be looking at some brutal waiting periods
Fair point. If I had to guess then.

FP6: E3, FP7: September, FP8: December/January, FP9: E3 2021, FP10: September, FP11: December/January
 

Guynamednelson

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True, but why would Nintendo just pluck out an Assist Trophy and then make you pay money to use them? I already had them in the game, now I'm paying to bring them back? What about players who liked that Assist Trophy/liked that character as an Assist Trophy?
I don't think they would actually remove the AT from the game, since Palkia is still a Spear Pillar hazard alongside a Poke Ball. Besides, you are paying for a bigger moveset, a new stage, and music.
 
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Flyboy

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For real, Travis is the only character I can think of to break the fourth wall like that, while Sothis and Robin broke the fourth wall with swordies jokes, Travis, one of the most obnoxious toxic nerds in fiction, breaking the wall for one of these complaints is just a perfect thing for him to do alongside his general snarky asshole demeanor
It's all I've ever wanted. Just a full on piss-take of a Smash trailer that's stupid, self-referential, bordering on annoying, and stylish as hell. Bonus points if he actually name-drops SUDA51 being in the Brawl credits and slashes the screen in the shape of the Smash logo.
 

TheCJBrine

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I just think that once you are in the game in some way, that's it. I have not seen any proof that Spirit/Trophy/Stage Hazard/Background Characters will become fighters.

"But Little Mac, Dark Samus, and Isabelle were Assist Trophies!" I hear people say.

True, but why would Nintendo just pluck out an Assist Trophy and then make you pay money to use them? I already had them in the game, now I'm paying to bring them back? What about players who liked that Assist Trophy/liked that character as an Assist Trophy?
A fighter takes a lot more work than an AT and definitely much more than a spirit, and people want some ATs and spirits as playable fighters, I don’t see why having to pay for the character would be bad. They could even keep the AT in the game and just make it disabled when the fighter is in use - or not care, since the fighter would be more expressive and stuff, so both could be on stage just like Chrom and his anomalies. As for spirits, just use different artwork for their fighter spirit and add the game of origin to the original spirit’s name.
 
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Cosmic77

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I just think that once you are in the game in some way, that's it. I have not seen any proof that Spirit/Trophy/Stage Hazard/Background Characters will become fighters.

"But Little Mac and Dark Samus were Assist Trophies!" I hear people say.

True, but why would Nintendo just pluck out an Assist Trophy and then make you pay money to use them? I already had them in the game, now I'm paying to bring them back? What about players who liked that Assist Trophy/liked that character as an Assist Trophy?
Well, since the pass was decided before Ultimate launched, nothing in the base game was ever going to be a DLC character in the first pass anyway. Hard to argue that we have definite proof that Spirits deconfirm when you consider this.

The second pass is the first opportunity for Sakurai to go back and say, "Y'know, I made this guy an AT/Spirit because I thought the first pass would be the end of things, but now that we have six more fighters, maybe I'll go back and revisit the idea of making them a fighter."

Isn't guaranteed to happen, but I also don't think it's fair to rule out more notable characters over more niche ones just because the latter lacks a Spirit.
 
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Knight Dude

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I just think that once you are in the game in some way, that's it. I have not seen any proof that Spirit/Trophy/Stage Hazard/Background Characters will become fighters.

"But Little Mac and Dark Samus were Assist Trophies!" I hear people say.

True, but why would Nintendo just pluck out an Assist Trophy and then make you pay money to use them? I already had them in the game, now I'm paying to bring them back? What about players who liked that Assist Trophy/liked that character as an Assist Trophy?
For sure. That's why most of us doubt an AT in this game game being playable. Spirits might be a different case because they don't have models already and have animation work done on them. And even those aren't super likely, just not impossible.

We won't see any proof until it happens or not. Very much so a "I'll believe it when I see it" deal.

Granted fighting games outside of Smash have pulled things like this off, like Black Manta in Injustice 2. or Martian Manhunter in IJ1.
 

Michael the Spikester

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I’m expecting the next reveal to be whenever the next direct is. We’re able to pre-purchase the pass at the end of this month, they’re not gonna make people wait until E3, right? I expect by early March at the absolute latest (though it should really be early next month if not later this month).
Well it did happen last year with the gap between Joker and Hero/Banjo. It isn't out of the question. Plus given the Pass is running until the end of 2021 they have to gap it quite a bit.
We’ll definitely know at least Fighter 6 before June. They want us to buy this thing as soon as possible.
I mean given the Pass is running for nearly two whole years they have to gap it quite a bit. I see it more likely being June E3 if anything.
 

Us3inMN

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But who knows if thi
I don't think they would actually remove the AT from the game, since Palkia is still a Spear Pillar hazard. Besides, you are paying for a bigger moveset, a new stage, and music.
How do we know that the next pass will come with stages/music? All we know is that it's another fighter. That's it.
Just because FP1 came with stages/music doesn't meant for sure that FP2 will be the same.

Plus, I don't think the developers would take time to make sure certain Assist Trophies don't spawn during a match with Assist Trophy characters.

And before someone says "They wouldn't charge that much for just a fighter", just look at everyone's favorite plant boi:ultpiranha:
 
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Guynamednelson

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Plus, I don't think the developers would take time to make sure certain Assist Trophies don't spawn during a match with Assist Trophy characters.
They took the time to ensure Alucard wouldn't show up if a mirror is present.
 
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