Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cutie Gwen]

Except that platform fighters like Smash bros works completely differently from fighting games, so the nuanced character quirks are never going to translate as well as from when you go from a 2D to 3D fighter. In Smash, there's a lot more freedom of movement, and aerial mobility is a huge factor. It's is an environment that fighting game characters simply can't take advantage of because their design was originally made for tight 1v1 gameplay. Compare this to say, platformer characters, who were designed by how they move and jump around in a free environment. I'm not saying that a new fighting game character can't be unique, it's just that other genres can offer a lot more to Smash that wouldn't even be possible in traditional fighters.

So what you're saying is that Guilty Gear is perfect due to the focus on air mobility and the fact it had a platform fighter too. Sol win

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

This is a stupid game because talking about what characters you don't like and want to get rid of is so goddamn boring, at least make it interesting by saying "You get 1 character of your choice but your main gets cut!" or something so some actual thought gets put behind it

I like his game more than games with pointless restrictions like copyrights.

 

[ES. Dinah]

If they post again with the same Tripcode, yes. But having a tripcode isn't something that makes one credible. The Tower of Smash Leaker used a tripcode, for example.

okay i'll keep an eye out for the same guy I guess

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like his game more than games with pointless restrictions like copyrights.

Good for you, though restrictions are made to force creativity which can lead to interesting results

 

[perfectchaos83]

okay i'll keep an eye out for the same guy I guess

link plz. I couldn't find it.

 

[Plank08]

To bask away from this drama, let us assume that all future fighters have to be from completely new companies, adding a new copyright. Let’s say you can add... 5 (FP5 + 4 more)
Who do you add?
My answer:
1. Heavy
2. Reimu
3. Otto Matic
4. Doomguy
5. Carmen Sandiego

Sackboy
That’s about all I need

 

[ES. Dinah]

link plz. I couldn't find it.

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/487156287

check the replies

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Good for you, though restrictions are made to force creativity which can lead to interesting results

Are you implying that all restrictions are good? What if the restriction were that characters' names couldn't have letters without curves or that their debut had to happen on a Friday?

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Anyway.. I’m gonna change the topic with a game from your host plank..I hate curiousity
If you guys could upgrade one franchise featured in smash into fighters, but another franchise would get demoted, what would you do?

I would make Akira Yuki playable, while the Electroplankton stage just gets demoted to a spirit or two.

... what? You never specified I had to demote a playable character, because let's face it: doing that will just make people mad.

If it has to be a playable character... make Lucina an alt costume like she was originally planned to be.

Except that platform fighters like Smash bros works completely differently from fighting games, so the nuanced character quirks are never going to translate as well as from when you go from a 2D to 3D fighter. In Smash, there's a lot more freedom of movement, and aerial mobility is a huge factor. It's is an environment that fighting game characters simply can't take advantage of because their design was originally made for tight 1v1 gameplay. Compare this to say, platformer characters, who were designed by how they move and jump around in a free environment. I'm not saying that a new fighting game character can't be unique, it's just that other genres can offer a lot more to Smash that wouldn't even be possible in traditional fighters.

... this is exactly what I previously said, except you're trying to spin it into a negative to suit your own point.

My point is that fighting game characters like Ryu, Ken, and Terry are just as interesting as any other character, because they come from fighting games that play differently from Smash Bros. They have movesets to draw from, but there's still the matter of actually translating them to Smash. Most of Terry's moveset is based on moves from his home series, but his Aerial Up Tilt had to be made from scratch since there was just nothing draw from for that type of move.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

So what you're saying is that Guilty Gear is perfect due to the focus on air mobility and the fact it had a platform fighter too. Sol win

Yes, I would much prefer Sol over Heihachi. But it's not really fair that you bring him up since Heihachi was the basis of my initial argument.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are you implying that all restrictions are good? What if the restriction were that characters' names couldn't have letters without curves or that their debut had to happen on a Friday?

I mean, most restrictions in these games are very good, you're just acting like a small restriction is the same as the first one you mentioned. The second one is barely a restriction at all considering most video games release on fridays anyway

 

[BlackInk]

Memez must be unleashed....

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/487156287

check the replies

“It's hard to believe but Sakurai wanted to celebrate the entire Xeno franchise
Spirits include Shion and TELOS from Xenosaga side.”
That exactly sounds like something Sakurai will do.

 

[Plank08]

Ok.. I’m sorry that game wasn’t very good, I’ll make a better one:
Would you rather keep your Main(s), OR lose your main but get your most wanted non fighter addition(Better spirits, Smash Run, Subspace, Adventure mode)

 

[TwiceEXE]

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/487156287

check the replies

I would be pretty happy if that's true. But, it's 4chan, so I'm not going to get my hopes up.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I would make Akira Yuki playable, while the Electroplankton stage just gets demoted to a spirit or two.

... what? You never specified I had to demote a playable character, because let's face it: doing that will just make people mad.

If it has to be a playable character... make Lucina an alt costume like she was originally planned to be.


... this is exactly what I previously said, except you're trying to spin it into a negative to suit your own point.

My point is that fighting game characters like Ryu, Ken, and Terry are just as interesting as any other character, because they come from fighting games that play differently from Smash Bros. They have movesets to draw from, but there's still the matter of actually translating them to Smash. Most of Terry's moveset is based on moves from his home series, but his Aerial Up Tilt had to be made from scratch since there was just nothing draw from for that type of move.

So you're arguing that characters that will have to have moves made up for them are at least as good for Smash as characters that don't?

 

[Will]

Would you rather keep your Main(s), OR lose your main but get your most wanted non fighter addition(Better spirits, Smash Run, Subspace, Adventure mode)

if they cut ryu but keep ken the reactions would be hilarious

 

[ES. Dinah]

Memez must be unleashed....

“It's hard to believe but Sakurai wanted to celebrate the entire Xeno franchise
Spirits include Shion and TELOS from Xenosaga side.”
That exactly sounds like something Sakurai will do.

yes but I wont get my hopes up. I believe a very huge Sword shield leak had a guy with a tripcode and it was fake. This guy could be trolling.

 

[BlackInk]

Ok.. I’m sorry that game wasn’t very good, I’ll make a better one:
Would you rather keep your Main(s), OR lose your main but get your most wanted non fighter addition(Better spirits, Smash Run, Subspace, Adventure mode)

What if the new fighter is badly made?

yes but I wont get my hopes up. I believe a very huge Sword shield leak had a guy with a tripcode and it was fake. This guy could be trolling.

I know that. It’s 4chan. I’m just saying Sakurai is a mad man.

 

[Plank08]

What if the new fighter is badly made?

Wait that’s not what I said, I said most wanted Non fighter addition and lose your Main(s), or keep things as they always are

 

[perfectchaos83]

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/487156287

check the replies

"She is in and will be considered a Xenoblade character "

I'm not buying that.

 

[Night Gale]

I completely understand the sentiment on how unique fighting game characters can be, but I think people are looking for something a bit more than carrying over a command list and playstyle from their original game. Fighting game characters are probably the easiest to transition into Smash, but are extremely straightforward, and basically you know exactly what to expect from them. I stand by the fact that there are tons of more interesting characters that can be selected, especially characters from completely new genres.

Saying that fighting game characters are easier to translate in Super Smash is untrue. Super Smash plays differently from almost every other fighting game, and making the transition to a platform fighter while staying true to the character is complicated af. We knew exactly what Terry could do and the end result was unpredictable. A backwards side special, dodge attacks, a limit break that doesn't expire, hold buffering tech, and so on. There's a reason that Heihachi was dropped in the last iteration; Sakurai couldn't figure out how to interpret his mobility correctly.

I want more genre as well, but fighting games have sub genre categories that aren't in the roster. 3D, beat em ups, weapon-based, and games classified as anime fighters all come to mind. Seeing any kind of character play by Super Smash's rules is fun and different so Idk what's wrong with wanting fighters. I think we could use more of them.

Except that platform fighters like Smash bros works completely differently from fighting games, so the nuanced character quirks are never going to translate as well as from when you go from a 2D to 3D fighter. In Smash, there's a lot more freedom of movement, and aerial mobility is a huge factor. It's is an environment that fighting game characters simply can't take advantage of because their design was originally made for tight 1v1 gameplay. Compare this to say, platformer characters, who were designed by how they move and jump around in a free environment. I'm not saying that a new fighting game character can't be unique, it's just that other genres can offer a lot more to Smash that wouldn't even be possible in traditional fighters.

The nuanced character quirks are what make them interesting. Air dashing is a mechanic we do not yet have. There are fighting games with mechanics that make characters fly around the screen, fall slower, and so on.

Fighting games are why we have Smash in the first place. My most wanted character is from a visual novel, but I know that Sakurai will turn to fighting games for inspiration to flesh out their move list.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

if they cut ryu but keep ken the reactions would be hilarious

Then Smash Ultimate becomes Smash Third Strike and Flowchart Ken will be filly realized

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I mean, most restrictions in these games are very good, you're just acting like a small restriction is the same as the first one you mentioned. The second one is barely a restriction at all considering most video games release on fridays anyway

I have characters I genuinely care a lot about getting in Smash. I don't find it very fun listing a bunch of characters I don't care about just to fit arbitrary restrictions like not having a copyright in Smash yet.

Ok.. I’m sorry that game wasn’t very good, I’ll make a better one:
Would you rather keep your Main(s), OR lose your main but get your most wanted non fighter addition(Better spirits, Smash Run, Subspace, Adventure mode)

Dude, I don't even own Smash Ultimate.

 

[ES. Dinah]

"She is in and will be considered a Xenoblade character "

I'm not buying that.

I think they mean the base design tbh. there is no way in hell she's gonna be Xenoblade symbol

 

[Hinata]

https://boards.4channel.org/v/thread/487156287

check the replies

"Rex and Pyra will cameo in her Final Smash"

Even factoring in her cameo in XBC2, that makes no sense.

 

[BlackInk]

I think they mean the base design tbh. there is no way in hell she's gonna be Xenoblade symbol

yeah, it’s going to a have big Namco trademark instead.

 

[Plank08]

Dude, I don't even own Smash Ultimate.

I..I’m.. sorry? I don’t really know what I’m supposed to say to that honestly.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

We knew exactly what Terry could do and the end result was unpredictable. A backwards side special, dodge attacks, a limit break that doesn't expire, hold buffering tech, and so on.

Lol that's not that hard to predict. I predicted the dodge attacks as a nod to the lane system in Fatal Fury.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I have characters I genuinely care a lot about getting in Smash. I don't find it very fun listing a bunch of characters I don't care about just to fit arbitrary restrictions like not having a copyright in Smash yet.
Dude, I don't even own Smash Ultimate.

Again, good for you. Just saying that "YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT BUT LOSE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE" is hardly an interesting topic at all as it requires less than zero thought but if you still want to pretend it's a very smart topic then be my guest

 

[AceAttorney9000]

So you're arguing that characters that will have to have moves made up for them are at least as good for Smash as characters that don't?

Yes, because even if the character doesn't have moves that would fit a Smash moveset, the developer team would still be able to give them attacks that fill out a Smash moveset while staying true to that character, and seeing how they would go about doing that would be just as interesting as, say, Banjo-Kazooie geting a Smash moveset.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

... this is exactly what I previously said, except you're trying to spin it into a negative to suit your own point.

My point is that fighting game characters like Ryu, Ken, and Terry are just as interesting as any other character, because they come from fighting games that play differently from Smash Bros. They have movesets to draw from, but there's still the matter of actually translating them to Smash. Most of Terry's moveset is based on moves from his home series, but his Aerial Up Tilt had to be made from scratch since there was just nothing draw from for that type of move.

I'm not trying to "spin" anything. We just agree on the same fundamental point, but the way we extrapolate it differs. I already said that fighting game characters can be unique, but that uniqueness is limited. As an extreme example, you won't get Hero's menu mechanic from a fighting game character.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Again, good for you. Just saying that "YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT BUT LOSE SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE" is hardly an interesting topic at all as it requires less than zero thought but if you still want to pretend it's a very smart topic then be my guest

What's up your ass? I didn't say it was "a very smart topic." I said I like it more than the kind of game I contrasted it with.

 

[ES. Dinah]

"Rex and Pyra will cameo in her Final Smash"

Even factoring in her cameo in XBC2, that makes no sense.

I want to clarify something about this. If KOS-MOS is using her blade appearance from XB2 then her final smash will probably be rex using her to use x buster.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

My only top wanted I didn’t get to talk about today is Maxwell from Scribblenauts, who all things considered probably doesn’t have the greatest chance at getting in, but he would be so much fun!

Here’s Maxwell when he crossed over Solid Snake who is fighting regular Snake.

 

[osby]

Banjo gets predictable moves and people sing praises about how loyal it is. Terry gets predictable moves and fans have a fit over it.

It's almost like movesets are an excuse to gatekeep characters they dislike.

 

[Will]

Banjo gets predictable moves and people sing praises about how loyal it is. Terry gets predictable moves and fans have a fit over it.

It's almost like movesets are an excuse to gatekeep characters they dislike.

wait what who's getting upset over terry's moveset?

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Banjo gets predictable moves and people sing praises about how loyal it is. Terry gets predictable moves and fans have a fit over it.

It's almost like movesets are an excuse to gatekeep characters they dislike.

No one in this discussion has praised Banjo's moveset more than Terry's.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Banjo gets predictable moves and people sing praises about how loyal it is. Terry gets predictable moves and fans have a fit over it.

It's almost like movesets are an excuse to gatekeep characters they dislike.

We live in a world where a potted plant was deemed having enough of a fun and interesting moveset so the fact people still pretend moveset potential is anything more than a buzzword is honestly kinda funny. "My favourites have so much moveset potential, you can make like 50 characters just from my favourite's arsenal!" Is good and all but an enemy who bobs up and down while shooting a fire ball was deemed to have enough moveset potential too so that's not impressing anyone

 

[Kokiden]

Banjo gets predictable moves and people sing praises about how loyal it is. Terry gets predictable moves and fans have a fit over it.

It's almost like movesets are an excuse to gatekeep characters they dislike.

People will use any excuse they can to discredit characters they don't like.

It's one of the things I intensely dislike about the Smash fanbase. So much hate, bashing, and gatekeeping over any characters that aren't deemed worthy.

Endless defences for why their characters are great, but also endless offences for why characters they don't like aren't worthy. Extremely biased.

We've got a great game on our hands, but the community could be much better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

wait what who's getting upset over terry's moveset?

People are saying fighting game characters are boring due to being incredibly easy to translate to Smash as they actually fight