Newbie Mafia 7! Canceled!

[Purple]

Who will survive...


Votes

Cello_Marl ()*
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
The_Guide () *
Daedalus4198 ()*
Swiss ($$$$)*Isuyaru, The Guide, Cello_Marl, Mayling
Riddle () *
Writer Kupo ()

Not Voting:Daedalus4198, Writer Kupo, Riddle ($$$)

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.


...the liar game.​

 

[The_Guide]

Unvote

Swiss is now at L-1 (one less than the required number to lynch), but feel free to hammer him (cast a decision making vote on a person at L-1). I'd really rather let Daed and Kupo weigh in first, but let's not wait so long that we forget all about Swiss. If he offers a reasonable explanation, that's fine, but otherwise, string him up.

Vote: Cello_Marl

Why so quick to lynch?

 

[Swiss]

Cello, what's with trying to make a massive case against me and wanting me lynched? We're barely one day into the game and you're willing to lynch? Even if you were certain of my scumminess you should wait and see who tries to buddy me or bus me. I am sure some players here understand exactly what I am doing and why, WHY ARE YOU NOT LETTING ISU FIGHT HIS OWN BATTLES? You have NO IDEA of his or my alignments at this stage and interfering serves only to disrupt information flows.

The Guide, I am sure, will precisely understand what I am doing here.

Isu, what do YOU think about this? Why are you not scum?

Cello, stop buddying, and the fact you were willing to have me hammered.....ridiculous.

unvote

Vote: Isuyaru

 

[The_Guide]

This is the most factionized I've ever played. ._.

The amount of buddying going on is downright creepy.

 

[Mayling]

Swiss, what's your case on Isu? I think I missed it. Er. Wait. Was it ever there to miss?

But seriously, I would appreciate a case on Isu.

 

[Riddle]

@ Mayling

I see Swiss as more scummy then Cello but do not want him hammered (obviously). Therefore, I have my vote on nobody since my top scum-candidate is at L-1.

 

[Swiss]

How about Isu can respond for himself as opposed to letting everyone else talk for him?

 

[The_Guide]

Um, wat? He's asking you to present a coherent case on Isu. No one is defending him.

 

[The_Guide]

This is the most factionized I've ever played. ._.

The amount of buddying going on is downright creepy.

Hey, there was a typo in this post of mine. It was supposed to say the most factionized game I've ever played, not the most factionized I've ever played.

 

[Swiss]

Jesus, I signalled this as hard as I could.

I pressured Isu (randomly) to try and get a tell from him, and see who was willing to badwagon or defend him.

The Guide, I imitated Ryker down to the **** phrasing of my words, multiple voting like he did and similar play style, AND said you specifically would understand why I did this. All from our last game. Bah.

I made multiple glaring contradictions "This isn't OMGUS as I don't like acronyms, FYI" and talked about how he was obv scum after one post. They were, imo, clear signals. Isu now has way too much to hide behind for any info to be gleaned, so I am now explaining what I did.


I really don't like Cello's response to what I did, of course there is no case on Isu, it was all fluff, but the way in which he interefered doesn't sit well with me. Also Isu wanting a wagon on me doesn't seem overly town, understandable yes, but not that town. Cello wanting me lynched today? That's either his own attempt to do what I did to Isu, or scummy as f**k.

So I will

unvote

Vote Cello

 

[Swiss]

This keyboard is ******** annoying

unvote

vote cello

 

[Vult Redux]

Longish post incoming. Sorry!

@Isuyaru: Did the way Riddle responded have any impact on how you were going to view/scrutinize him? Not the specific way he chose to respond, but a general thing. In your eyes, is he done responding?

The way he would have responded?

It might have, depending on the response. Probably not, but it was something to talk about and was worth asking anyway.

I'm not interested in pursuing that small thing anymore. He's done responding.

Also, have you reversed your opinions on Swiss and Isu, or are they the same, or are they both neutral to you now?

I originally didn't have an opinion.

Now I'm leaning scum on Swiss and still neutral on Isu.

Nice bit of OMGUS. Why do that? Town push the lynch on who they suspect, scum push the lynch on who suspects them.

Disagree about OMGUS being scummish [though I don't consider his vote omgus anyways].

Also disagree on latter part. It's pretty natural for anyone to suspect those who disagree with them, or be less likely to suspect those who do agree with them.

That's why "Buddying" can be an effective scum tactic.

^ That as well.

Want to see more Isu votes.

Did you just agree with me disagreeing with you?

Or...?

In all seriousness, Vult/Cello team?

Did you pick two names out of a hat?

Vote: Mayling

Do explain!

Swiss is now at L-1 (one less than the required number to lynch), but feel free to hammer him (cast a decision making vote on a person at L-1). I'd really rather let Daed and Kupo weigh in first, but let's not wait so long that we forget all about Swiss. If he offers a reasonable explanation, that's fine, but otherwise, string him up.

I'm usually the one to chastise people for being too slow or stalling to long to lynch. I like faster days...

But I dunno. It seems early to be calling for this.

What on earth would make you think we'd forget about Swiss [and even if we DID, it'd probably be because we found a better suspect, no?]?

 

[Mayling]

...Vult did you read my reread?

I was thinking before my reread that Vult/Cello team b/c of your interactions with each other. I noticed that Cello criticized/commented on your play, and afterwards you seemed like you slipped into a more "townie" Vult act (questioning, pressuring, small pokes.) I could see this as Cello trying to nudge you to act as your townie self, reminding you how you act as town rather than letting you slip into a Vult Scum mindset.

 

[The_Guide]

The Guide, I imitated Ryker down to the **** phrasing of my words, multiple voting like he did and similar play style, AND said you specifically would understand why I did this. All from our last game. Bah.

I had a feeling that it was something like that. However, when Ryker complained that people were defending you (I think it was you. Idk), there were actually people defending you. Granted, people were doing this for Isu earlier, but in between your latest posts, nothing of the sort was happening. You were complaining about stuff that happened a page or two back, but making it sound as if it was going on in the present.

If you want my advice, I'd play the game in your own style. You'll be easier for town to read that way.

 

[The_Guide]

@ Swiss:

Tl;dr, Act yourself, instead of using other player's styles without looking at the context of the situation.

 

[Swiss]

I had a feeling that it was something like that. However, when Ryker complained that people were defending you (I think it was you. Idk), there were actually people defending you. Granted, people were doing this for Isu earlier, but in between your latest posts, nothing of the sort was happening. You were complaining about stuff that happened a page or two back, but making it sound as if it was going on in the present.

If you want my advice, I'd play the game in your own style. You'll be easier for town to read that way.

I thought I'd made it pretty clear to you, oh well. I don't have a play style, you only saw me as scum where I decided to play the perfect townie. Now I want to scum hunt. This is probably closer to my real play style though. No reason for me not to stir stuff up, I'd hoped for someone else to put on pressure and root out scum.

 

[Vult Redux]

...Vult did you read my reread?

I was thinking before my reread that Vult/Cello team b/c of your interactions with each other. I noticed that Cello criticized/commented on your play, and afterwards you seemed like you slipped into a more "townie" Vult act (questioning, pressuring, small pokes.) I could see this as Cello trying to nudge you to act as your townie self, reminding you how you act as town rather than letting you slip into a Vult Scum mindset.

I skimmed. Guess I missed what I was scoping for in it.

Okay.

Unvote

I'll hammer Swiss, but not before our missing players arrive.

 

[Swiss]

@ Swiss:

Tl;dr, Act yourself, instead of using other player's styles without looking at the context of the situation.

It was just pressure, I was simply trying to signal my INTENTION of it to other players by the posts similar to Ryker's. The context as you say is actually exactky the same.

But anyway, that's a moot point and off topic.

 

[Swiss]

I skimmed. Guess I missed what I was scoping for in it.

Okay.

Unvote

I'll hammer Swiss, but not before our missing players arrive.

I take it you haven't read my post.

 

[Cello_Marl]

If you wanna lynch me then go right ahead. I'd like a reason though, seems pretty foolish to lynch a man from behind when he's got a scum down his sights.

I imitated Ryker down to the **** phrasing of my words, multiple voting like he did and similar play style, AND said you specifically would understand why I did this. All from our last game. Bah.

No, you weren't emulating Ryker at all. First of all, in Newbie 6, Ryker was responding by example to the point of RVS doesn't provide pressure or generate discussion as supposed by McFox, and did so in an abrasive manner. You were imitating a townie in another game, presumably for the express purpose of being able to state that a townie acted "the same way that you are". I make this supposition based on your reaction to the negative reaction you received and the fact that you felt obligated to point out your ****ty play was the illegitimate child of your play mixed with Ryker's; if you were properly emulating Ryker, you would use our reactions as a basis to form an opinion, instead of whining and *****ing about how we're mistreating you and how we don't understand that wonderful plan you were trying. Show me where he did that once in Newbie 6. He didn't; he laughed off poor responses as inane, but he never pulled a hurt little lamb routine like you are here. Why claim you were acting like him when you aren't, if not for the purpose of associating your actions with that of a townie?

Further, understanding that supposed emulation of Ryker would actually have run counter to what you were supposedly trying to do. If scum understood you were baiting reactions, then scum wouldn't have taken the bait. Not only is your criteria superbly flawed [people that want to lynch me early on are scum, no matter how I've acted!], you have done nothing in terms of actually forming opinions. You focused on Isuyaru, but the expected response stops you cold? What was the point of that, then?

Frankly, your "emulation" comes across as a lame, sarcastic parody of his style than anything with substance. Let's look at the case of you (Swiss) and McFox in N6. Ryker stated "Give allowances, sure. Answer questions? Great. Defend them against cases before they've had a shot at them? Hell no." Did you do that? Hell no. When Riddle came to your defense here in Newbie 7, did you chastise him? No. Why not? Ryker would have, for violating that principle. Why did you try to push as far away from playing like Ryker that you could the instant you realized your intended patsy, The_Guide, didn't fall for your illusions? You claim the context was the same, but it clearly is not. How is the way you chose to play early on in this game a moot point? It is an action you took. Here.

I'm sure you want to believe that you were pursuing that principle by saying repeatedly that I should let Isuyaru defend himself. But, is that really the case? In this scenario, my position is like McFox's; Isuyaru's is like yours in N6, and yours is "like Ryker's". How then, do you feel justified in believing that my "defense" of Isuyaru (which is still, and always has been, simply demanding the statement of a real case) means that I am scum? Your vote is on me; what pressure are you trying to exert, and on what matter, if me being scum is not your belief?

If you want to pretend to be an IC, then sign up as one. Let's say you are town; by acting in such a scummy and terrible way, you are suggesting to new players that such a style is generally acceptable without accepting the accompanied responsibility you would have in an IC position. Do you think these "traps" would actually be useful/helpful to someone who doesn't understand the context? It's totally, completely ineffective for the town as a whole.

 

[Isuyaru]

@Mod: The most recent votecounts have not included the votes on me.

I also wouldn't agree with someone hammering this early in the Day without even getting input from all players.

I really don't like Cello's response to what I did, of course there is no case on Isu, it was all fluff, but the way in which he interefered doesn't sit well with me. Also Isu wanting a wagon on me doesn't seem overly town, understandable yes, but not that town.

Since you're saying you had no case on me, let me just ask: is there anything you still want me to address?

This is the most factionized [game] I've ever played. ._.

The amount of buddying going on is downright creepy.

Do you find any of the buddying so far suspicious?

@Daedalus4198: What do you think about Riddle's FoS of Cello_Marl?

 

[Swiss]

Isu - nothing.

Cello - wtf. I have never read a post more rammed full of bs in my entire life.

You highlighted totally superficial reasons as to why what I did is nothing like newbie 6. I unvoted revoted Isu, like Ryker did. I made short, glaringly stupid posts, like Ryker did. I used the same phrasing of words and told The Guide SPECIFICALLY he should know what I was doing. I applied pressure to a player on day 1 for a fluff reason, and did so with a similar posting style to Ryker, frankly I don't care about your fantastic reasons.

Isu didn't bait and start talking back, unlike me in newbie 6, is where the two games detract, not some bs reason of me not chastising Riddle. Thus I couldn't get a read on Isu and instead had Cello bouncing around infront of me.

And EVEN if I did not manage to successfully signal my intention, so what? It doesn't really affect the game, I'm still sat here explaining what I tried to do.


Cello, you wanted my lynched FAR too early based on disliking me, imo. Your willingness to lynch a player that soon is nothing short of criminal. Also what you did is NOT what McFox did, he actually explained what he did later on - but again that is a moot point. Cut out all the bs of "Lame sarcastic parody" too. It doesn't help you make any case you have, screams "fluffy BS post" to me.


Why don't we hear other people's opinions on this? I'd like to see if they think (regardless of if what the pressure I applied to Isu was similar to Ryker pressuring me) that what I did was worthy of lynching me, as you seem to believe.




For any tl;dr's: Whether I signalled The Guide to help me pressure Isu well enough or not is, imo, not a case on me to be lynched. Cello's entire post revolves around what is, in fact, irrelevant (ish). I believe that had Isu been online to respond to my posts and pressure, any posts he made would have been useful to analyse for any tells, as well as seeing who tried to buddy him. If you honestly disagree, then fine - I accept that but still think it would have been useful.

 

[Purple]

Who will survive...​

Votes​

Cello_Marl ($$)*The Guide, Swiss
Vult Redux ()*
Mayling ()*
The_Guide () *
Daedalus4198 ()*
Isuyaru()*
Swiss ($$$)*Isuyaru, Cello_Marl, Mayling
Riddle () *
Writer Kupo () ​

Not Voting:Daedalus4198, Writer Kupo, Riddle, Vult_Redux ($$$$)​

It takes 5/9 to eliminate a player.​

...the liar game.​

 

[The_Guide]

I could see either Swiss or Cello being scum right now. Imo, we should lynch Swiss today, then, pending the results, go after Cello tomorrow.

Oh, btw. Stop this idiotic discussion of emulating Ryker/Mcfox/etc. We've already gotten as much as we can out of it; we'll find nothing new about other townies if we keep discussing a subject that has already been explained (pretty badly, imo, badly enough to make me think that this guy is scum. Still, nothing good will come from fixating on this too much).

Swiss, the simple fact that you're playing so defensively is enough to make me suspicious of you. If I may be so bold, I would like to have Swiss's hammer. If we have an established hammer, we can support having Swiss at L-1, without the danger of a quicklynch ending the day.

 

[The_Guide]

Swiss, if that wasn't a clear indication to start playing proactively for town, I don't know what is. I can't believe you said that your goal in this charade was to get a reaction out of Isu, yet, when he asks you if you have anything to ask him, you say:

Isu - nothing.

If you want us to believe in the SLIGHTEST that your actions were made to get information for town, I'd advise taking advantage of opportunities like this. In fact, why should you NEED an opportunity; you should be proactively asking people questions, not waiting for them to come to you.

 

[Swiss]

I genuinely have nothing left to ask Isu, what I did get from him I felt no need to pressure him on in reality - i.e. it wasn't scummy. I always prefer to not say what I DON'T find scummy, it's what I was taught to do back in my first game

Guide, I don't think I was being unnecessarily defensive, I really did have to explain what I did and why. The fact that Cello has responded as he has is, to me, indicative of scum play.

Other points:

Other people should weigh in on this
wtf activity in this thread.



Also if I do get lynched today, lynch Cello. I honestly can't see him being town.

 

[Mayling]

I made short, glaringly stupid posts, like Ryker did.

Why did you imitate a playstyle you categorize as stupid?

 

[Swiss]

Why did you imitate a playstyle you categorize as stupid?

I actually quite liked the playstyle. The posts themselves were contradictory in order to signal I didn't genuinely believe what I was saying yet still warrant Isu having to answer them.

Seriously, I said my vote "wasn't OMGUS as I don't like acronyms, FYI." I USED acronym in that sentence at the end and the fact my vote wouldn't be 'OMGUS' as I don't like acronyms is nothing less than ridiculous.

So the posts themselves were intended to look so stupid and tunnelly that I couldn't be serious, I'd hoped people would pick up on the opportunity to pressure a player early on. The play style, imo, wasn't stupid - merely the posts which I deliberately made stupid. If anyone can actually see a real case on Isu in what I said...I'd like to hear it :/

 

[The_Guide]

Swiss, I'm not just talking about your responses to Cello. The style of imitation you adopted gave you an easy excuse to abandon any stance you took.

You know, I could actually see you being town. After rereading a bit of newbie 6, I can't see you trying to act as prominent as you have been. Still, I'm suspicious of you, as I can't see how any of your actions have benefited town.

Btw, I missed Isu's offer to hammer Swiss. I'd be fine with leaving him that honor, assuming that he is still willing to take it.

 

[Swiss]

Swiss, I'm not just talking about your responses to Cello. The style of imitation you adopted gave you an easy excuse to abandon any stance you took.

I wanted to be able to abandon my stance. My entire case was fluff, I don't actually want people to believe I believed it, if that makes sense. I got a read I'm reasonably happy with, if I get lynched and Cello is then as a result lynched and is scum lynch - I'll be happy.


Don't base me here on newbie 6. Firstly I'm trying out new styles and techniques (I still don't really have a style), and secondly I WAS the Godfather. I did prove pretty A OK I can convince people I'm town when I'm scum, I just can't do the same when I'm town!


I realise I must have come across as scummy, although I still don't get how you didn't cotton on to my blatant contradictions. If you read my posts, they ARE there. I see I COULD be scum saying this, but it really is a pretty bad strategy to draw attention to yourself in a game this inactive.

 

[Mayling]

You know, I could actually see you being town.

Btw, I missed Isu's offer to hammer Swiss.

unvote vote The_Guide

 

[Mayling]

EBWOP:

You know, I could actually see you being town.

Btw, I missed Isu's offer to hammer Swiss. I'd be fine with leaving him that honor, assuming that he is still willing to take it.

unvote vote The_Guide

 

[Purple]

Daedalus and Writer Kupo have been prodded

 

[Cello_Marl]

The fact that Cello has responded as he has is, to me, indicative of scum play.

How so? Give details, reasons, anything. Hopefully something that isn't hypocritical. (look at how defensive Cello is getting!) Your belief is strong enough that you want me to be lynched after you, in the event that you flip town. What fuels that belief?

My entire case was fluff, I don't actually want people to believe I believed it, if that makes sense.

Why did you claim that you were being serious on multiple occasions when directly asked if you were being serious? Why should everyone else be liable for their words and actions, but you should not?

Why don't we hear other people's opinions on this? I'd like to see if they think that what I did was worthy of lynching me, as you seem to believe.

I think the four votes that piled up on you along with a declaration of intent to hammer if it wasn't so early in the Day is evidence that people find you lynch-worthy. On that note, it's interesting that you found no qualm with anyone other than me; you found no one else on that wagon to be opportunistic? You didn't even explore the possibility; is that an admission that their votes are justified? Were you worried that offending anyone other than me would lead to your death in that L-1 powder-keg situation?

The fact of the matter is that you aren't even defending your positions. You abandoned them, calling the original style stupid (no matter how much you "liked" it). Your defensiveness wasn't based on your ideals (how could it be? You abandoned them), and so it was simply a desire for self-preservation. Where is the information you should have gathered from people's reactions, especially in terms of the wagon on you? You've said nothing about Guide and Mayling, the latter of whom provided a nice big post for analysis. Why keep your options wide open by not stating anything at all about her instead of taking a stance? Guide had to rip a confession from you that you were satisfied with Isuyaru. What about May? Was her post reasonable? All you can say is that you don't like how I reacted; which is fine, if you can provide some sort of explanation. Is it just a hunch? If not, why do you think I'm scum? Are you even being serious? Were you ever?

Cello, you wanted my lynched FAR too early based on disliking me, imo.

If it's enough, it's enough.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Daedalus and Writer Kupo have been prodded

Newbies should be playing in Newbie games. I mean that in every possible interpretation.

 

[Purple]

If all of you can find the opportunity to gind some newbies refer them to me; I have no replacements.

 

[Swiss]

How so? Give details, reasons, anything. Hopefully something that isn't hypocritical. (look at how defensive Cello is getting!) Your belief is strong enough that you want me to be lynched after you, in the event that you flip town. What fuels that belief?



Why did you claim that you were being serious on multiple occasions when directly asked if you were being serious? Why should everyone else be liable for their words and actions, but you should not?

I only claimed I was being serious WHILST pressuring Isu. Saying 'LOL JK I don't really suspect you of what I'm accusing you' would have been pointless. It would have REMOVED any pressure.


I think the four votes that piled up on you along with a declaration of intent to hammer if it wasn't so early in the Day is evidence that people find you lynch-worthy. On that note, it's interesting that you found no qualm with anyone other than me; you found no one else on that wagon to be opportunistic? You didn't even explore the possibility; is that an admission that their votes are justified? Were you worried that offending anyone other than me would lead to your death in that L-1 powder-keg situation?

Again you misunderstand, my problem was not that you suspected me, I do see that as a reasonable by product of what I did. My problem with you was that you were willing to hammer me and seemed to deliberately or accidentally misunderstand what I said.

The fact of the matter is that you aren't even defending your positions. You abandoned them, calling the original style stupid (no matter how much you "liked" it). Your defensiveness wasn't based on your ideals (how could it be? You abandoned them), and so it was simply a desire for self-preservation. Where is the information you should have gathered from people's reactions, especially in terms of the wagon on you? You've said nothing about Guide and Mayling, the latter of whom provided a nice big post for analysis. Why keep your options wide open by not stating anything at all about her instead of taking a stance? Guide had to rip a confession from you that you were satisfied with Isuyaru. What about May? Was her post reasonable? All you can say is that you don't like how I reacted; which is fine, if you can provide some sort of explanation. Is it just a hunch? If not, why do you think I'm scum? Are you even being serious? Were you ever?

Said what I didn't like about your reaction above. Too brash, a lot on a little as it were. Guide didn't have to 'rip' anything from me, he asked for clarification and I answered. Let me get this straight. EVERYTHING I said before I explained what I did was designed to pressure Isu, so you trying to call me out on 'being deadly serious then not being serious later' is pointless. I left breadcrumbs to show exactly what I did, and although I know this does not equate to me being town, I fail to see how it is worthy of a lynch


If it's enough, it's enough.

See bolded for my replies.

Cello, you have either misunderstood or tunelled what I have done.

 

[The_Guide]

EBWOP:



unvote vote The_Guide

You're right to vote me for that. No one should be allowed to get away with playing from both sides of the aisle. I won't waste your time trying to say that I didn't mean to do it (tru, tho); that's just WIFOMy junk, not enough to convince any logical person of anything.

I know exactly how contradictory I'm going to sound for doing this, but I take everything back about Swiss. Even though I absolutely hate the style of play he's been taking, I just can't see him doing this as scum.

 

[Riddle]

To be honest I think cello is the current play. Predominantly his comment on hammering Swiss has led me to believd this.

vote: cello_marl

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Vult:

What on earth would make you think we'd forget about Swiss [and even if we DID, it'd probably be because we found a better suspect, no?]?

Less than 24 hours later...

Guide: I take everything back about Swiss...I just can't see him doing this as scum.
Riddle: To be honest I think cello is the current play.

And you wondered why I was worried about the Swiss that might get away. Understand now? Also, can you explain to Riddle why his beliefs are idiotic? I don't think he'll listen to me right now.

@Swiss: I see you've repeated the same "Oh, God, what's Cello thinking, his reactions sux, I wanted something from Isu, don't know what" trash that you've been spewing for a couple of pages. And what about the rest of it? Let me reprint it for your convenience, expanded a bit.

Why was the first post of yours for the game designed to attract the attention of the only person that would "understand" your selected play style, and associate yourself with a townie from another game, even down to the random vote? When he voted for you, why did you continue your obviously failed attempt? What useful information did you think this would this give to Daedalus and Writer Kupo? Why did you emulate Ryker's style (poorly) to elicit responses only to immediately clam up and become defensive when confronted with the expected responses to that sort of play? Why are you continuing to use your pathetic attempt at Ryker-style by voting for me without explaining your reasons? You say you are voting me for my "reactions", but what specifically attracted your attention? What have I done that is "indicative of scum play"? Should we believe it was merely a coincidence that you found me to be scummy after a pointed out your flaws? Why have you given no thoughts on the other people that bandwagoned against you before I did? Why did you offer no opinion on Isuyaru or Guide when they were stated they were willing to hammer you? Why do you believe you should not be liable for your words and actions? Why did you think that lying when directly asked if you were being serious was a good way to convince people of your opinions? Why are you not talking about anything that doesn't directly pertain to you, when you admit you have no good reads and/or aren't willing to disclose any information? Why should anyone agree with your assessment that my play is "indicative of scum play" when you offer no insight, especially in light of the fact that you were intentionally embracing liminality? Why did you not take the initiative and provide thoughts on...anyone, really, after Guide told you to start acting proactively in town's interests? What are those thoughts, if you must be poked and prodded?

The heart of the complaint against you is that you aren't acting according to what you claim you're doing, and EVEN UP TO THIS POINT, you've done nothing to rectify to that problem. You've just tried to say anything and everything you can to prevent your own death.

The heart of your complaint against me is that I found you to be scum quickly. In Popcorn, I was very strongly convinced of Sword's and Tom's guilt by post #28. I was right there, and I'll be right here. If it's enough, it's enough.

My problem with you was that you were willing to hammer me and seemed to deliberately or accidentally misunderstand what I said.

You aren't even sure about what you think I thought about your actions? You claim I've misunderstood your positions, but it makes no difference to you whether or not such a hypothetical situation is a misunderstanding or not? That sounds like you just want to kill anyone that opposes you. No, wait, that's exactly what it is.

Let's say for a moment that I actually did misunderstand something; why did you vote for me with no reference to that end? Not allowing me to address any grievance you have with me does no one any good. What did you hope to accomplish other than to build negative sentiment against someone that opposes you?

It was just pressure, I was simply trying to signal my INTENTION of it to other players by the posts similar to Ryker's.

Who did you expect to pick up on a reference to a player in a game that no one other than you and Guide played in? How did you expect anyone to pick up on that in a NEWBIE game? Why say other players when The_Guide was your obvious patsy?

No one should be allowed to get away with playing from both sides of the aisle...I know exactly how contradictory I'm going to sound for doing this, but I take everything back about Swiss. Even though I absolutely hate the style of play he's been taking, I just can't see him doing this as scum.

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At any rate, if you don't want to catch any flak for this turnabout, then explain to us why you feel this way other than "he didn't play this way before". Do you really feel he couldn't do this as scum? If so, then you will be a liability later if you can't change your mind. Further, if you believe people shouldn't be allowed to "play both sides of the aisle", why are you now permissive of Swiss's behavior, which has allowed him to take no stance on anyone?