Newbie 17 - Breaking Bad Mafia! Game over! Who won?

[Jdietz43]

This is odd, why say this when you had been saying that you had a town-read on Ditzy. One of which that has never been substantiated well nor did you express that you were about to change. However, you change back to a town-read on Ditzy real shortly afterwards.

[collapse=Ditzy and J]

[/collapse]

Within these two posts, I bring up points against Ditzy but he does not rebuttal the points against him but tries to talk his way around it. He says his reasoning against me is petty for an actual lynch but he just keeps alluding that he has a "critical eye" at me when that is just showing that he is having a weak push against me and hiding behind that fact. He ONLY seems to care about me when I push him/call him as scum. His suspicion does not seem true and actually seems fake when this is said:

Accepting points isn't the same as trying to talk around them J, I explained myself as I was truthfully.

The bolded especially where he says, "My opinion could turn around." where he seems to be saying that if I step in the right direction, "Of thinking he is town." he will start changing his opinion on me.

And it could have, but it has not. I could accept the possibility you honestly had me as scum, but trying to take Orbo down with me is the final nail in the J-scum coffin. You're now beyond the point of no return.

This point still holds true to now when he has been calling everyone scum who ever calls him scum and anyone who calls his OMG SCUM reads town, he says they are next in line.

When the people calling me scum stop actually being scum, maybe I'll consider not calling them scum.

Ditzy has been hammer fishing for someone to quickly end the day with an Ori lynch and it reeks of self-perservation of his own slot in this game instead of actually trying to lynch scum. He tries to denote this by saying "On an unrelated note" when in reality, it all he really cares about toDay is lynching Ori because it will inevitably save his own butt toDay. He brings up the fact that Ori voted him as a contradiction, when the fact is Ori has already brought Ditzy up as a scum-read earlier on in the day-phase and in twilight yesterDay so I don't get why he is even shocked by the return of his vote on him.

This is a partial truth at best, anyone reading Ori's post history can tell he hasn't stuck to his reads. Read Orbo's posts for evidence of this.

Quote your cites J.

Ditzy states that he hates the entire post and then tries to rip it to shreds as much as he can without even considering the town intent behind the post. He gives reads even though he is being lynched, the sincerity of the post shows through as well with the way he admits that he is town/going to be lynched but tries to help town.

This is a blatant lie, Ori does no scum-hunting whatsoever in his post and instead uses it entirely for FUD and self preservation. He doesn't even try to talk about anyone else, just himself and how bad it would be to lynch him. Just read it for yourself:

I guess the only thing I need to say, is that we have another Vitamin C situation.

Everyone is convinced I'm scum, which like VC is false. It is being pushed by someone dumb, and the mafia members are going along with it adding bits to the case so the person who pushed feels like they are spot on.

I want you all to remember, if/when I am lynched and D4 starts. Town is going to drop from 5 (plus 3 mafia members) to possibly 4 or 3 townies left (depending on how doctor acts during the night phase). I honestly though about just voting for myself yesterday, just to see how it would play out and how fast town would lose.

To Answer your questions,

1147
• I goofed lol, I actually forgot I made that post, if you find that believable. I forgot to double check if I had a past read on you. That post totally slipped by. You definitely have a role, whether its mafia or doctor. Maybe thats why it wasn't sitting right.

1150
• I guess JD can't read sarcasm lol. I was joking about the "I will follow J because he is my god." I've only played mafia with him once or twice lol.
• My impressions on every person has changed throughout this mafia game, its the nature of the game. I can trust someone then a few posts can be made and boom I want your head on the chopping block.
• I had no intentions on trying to get JD's vote off me. I was asked for my opinions and I gave them. I haven't even made a decision on who I want to vote for yet as a lynch target today. Even though J is a person I suspect I don't know if he is the one I want to be lynched today.

This is the big difference between Ori's and Ditzy's response to pressure. Ori still tries to help town where Ditzy starts flailing and calling everyone else scum and acting Ori. Ori is more so acting rationally and still trying to help town even though he is being pressured. I dislike this entire tear-down of Ori because it is REACHING heavily for posts to try and justify why it is bad. Other people have expressed distaste with this post and why other have liked Ori's and I have to agree with that side of things (Shotty/Bardull) However, there is only one person to agree with Ditzy on this thing w.r.t. his opinion.

Bolded are lies.

Ori hasn't tried to find anyone else who is scum and has done nothing but plead "No not me! If you lynch town we'll be screwedohno!" which is entirely anti-town.

Bottom line: I dislike it. Orbo is just trying to shrug off the attention that is being focused on his slot and I do not get why. He seems uneasy when people question his alignment which hasn't really been done and his reaction to said pressure looks grimy.

I'm sure you'll harp on me for defending Orbo since it's a lynchpin in your plan to connect me with him and vice versa, but Orbo hasn't been squirming at all from people pushing him. How about the two who have "suspicions" of him actually present some evidence before you claim he's dodging things that don't exist yet. Go ahead, lynch me for having Orbo as my biggest town read and seal your fate: MAKE MY DAY.





I will say this though: if the lynch for today ends up being me. I want J and Ori dead with no questions asked when I flip town. No listening to J's silver tongue, just lynching him.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ditzy didn't even respond to my points but just continued to say things like "Nope, now you are scum. Go ahead, see what happens when you lynch me."

I don't see the town intent in Ditzy's posts if he is so content with being lynched.

 

[Jdietz43]

I didn't respond to your points?

I blatantly called you a liar for everything you falsely claimed about Ori that "redeemed" him, and you're just going to ignore that? Reach harder J.

 

[#HBC | J]

One sec, I'll dissect what I mean in your post.

Reach isn't the right term Ditzy.

 

[Jdietz43]

Lie and connive then? Take your choice of negative terms that show you're full of it.

I'm fine with being lynched if it cements your place as scum. 1 town for 1 scum is a good trade.

 

[#HBC | J]

Accepting points isn't the same as trying to talk around them J, I explained myself as I was truthfully.

So you accept the points I brought up against you did point out that you were scummy? Huh?

And it could have, but it has not. I could accept the possibility you honestly had me as scum, but trying to take Orbo down with me is the final nail in the J-scum coffin. You're now beyond the point of no return.

You never even tried to accept the possibility that I was town once I attacked you. You gave that little thing I have quoted but you just went on assuming I was scum purely because I called you scum first, your entire premise for having me as scum is OMGUS. You haven't brought up anything against me that wasn't a counter-defense to me, you haven't questioned me or your read on me, nor have you done anything to try and figure out my alignment.

You are reaching for anything to use as a reason to spread FUD around my slot. A clear line is the one where you say, "You call my town-read scum with me? Yup, u so scummy." and lines like "point of no return" show you have no care for determining people's alignment but just content with sitting on your reads doing nothing. This next quote highlights it clearly when you say:

When the people calling me scum stop actually being scum, maybe I'll consider not calling them scum.

This is insanely bad logic. When they stop being scum? So you think all of Bardull/Shotty/J/Rake/Ori are scum? Are you insane? The only one with a town-read on you that has clung to it is Orbo so Orbo is the only one town to you? Your reads are vapid and solely rely on how people view you. This proves my point of you not caring to develop your reads. Expound on them, build cases on people, make the effort to determine alignment.

This is a blatant lie, Ori does no scum-hunting whatsoever in his post and instead uses it entirely for FUD and self preservation. He doesn't even try to talk about anyone else, just himself and how bad it would be to lynch him. Just read it for yourself:

Bolded are lies.

Ori hasn't tried to find anyone else who is scum and has done nothing but plead "No not me! If you lynch town we'll be screwedohno!" which is entirely anti-town.

BS on Ori has not scum-hunted. People scum-hunt in a variety of different ways. He has been asking questions to people and seems to be looking at different things while you on the other hand are content to just sit and squawk.

You say it is incredibly anti-town for what he is doing and should be lynched when you are doing the exact same thing. Look in the mirror Ditzy, you are acting exactly like Ori when being pushed for a lynch except in a much harsher light.

I'm sure you'll harp on me for defending Orbo since it's a lynchpin in your plan to connect me with him and vice versa, but Orbo hasn't been squirming at all from people pushing him. How about the two who have "suspicions" of him actually present some evidence before you claim he's dodging things that don't exist yet. Go ahead, lynch me for having Orbo as my biggest town read and seal your fate: MAKE MY DAY.

The bolded bit is not even the reason for why I want to lynch you. You are strawmanning my argument. Orbo has been squirming, especially when pressed by Rake with a certain quote saying, "man why are you tunneling me so hard?" Rake and Bardull have presented reasonings for why they feel he is scum. Rake has even presented a case against him so there has been evidence against Orbo, have you read that case?

IC Note:

Strawman - It is a term that is used when someone in an argument is taking a tiny part of the argument and only combating that point. Basically not fighting the entire thing, and picking only a very small part of the argument to attack it. Not going for the meat of the reason/what exactly the argument is about.

 

[#HBC | J]

Lie and connive then? Take your choice of negative terms that show you're full of it.

I'm fine with being lynched if it cements your place as scum. 1 town for 1 scum is a good trade.

Have you considered this fact yet?

I'm town.

Now what? Because of your lynch and let's say I do, in fact, get lynched toMorrow and no scum has been killed by that point, town loses this game. Got it? Being content as town as town to be lynched is not the way to be ever, unless in scenario based situations and this is not one of them.

Ditzy, at least try and convince me why I should not lynch you instead of saying, "Kay lynch me, J afterwards." Or better yet, convince town to lynch me if you are so strong about it then Ditzy. Build a case on me. Do SOMETHING to have people look into me because after you die it will most likely just be left to a scummy person's ravings.

 

[Jdietz43]

So you accept the points I brought up against you did point out that you were scummy? Huh?

I accepted points that I could see as possibly coming from someone who had doubts of my town based on things I did that turned out badly. I defended the points that needed defending.

This is insanely bad logic. When they stop being scum? So you think all of Bardull/Shotty/J/Rake/Ori are scum? Are you insane? The only one with a town-read on you that has clung to it is Orbo so Orbo is the only one town to you? Your reads are vapid and solely rely on how people view you. This proves my point of you not caring to develop your reads. Expound on them, build cases on people, make the effort to determine alignment.

Untrue, So far only Ori and you have made any major push on my slot. Others have debated the topic as is to be expected, but only you two have actually attempted to push my lynch. (scum)

BS on Ori has not scum-hunted. People scum-hunt in a variety of different ways. He has been asking questions to people and seems to be looking at different things while you on the other hand are content to just sit and squawk.

BS on your claim of BS. Find me where Ori has tried to help us out rather than prevent his own lynch at all costs. You won't be able to because he hasn't. I've been showing my scum reads and things to work with liberally wrt you and Ori scum.

You say it is incredibly anti-town for what he is doing and should be lynched when you are doing the exact same thing. Look in the mirror Ditzy, you are acting exactly like Ori when being pushed for a lynch except in a much harsher light.

More lies J. It is incredibly anti-town to only pay note of the negative impact of lynching town. You're doing it too when talking about not wanting to be lynched next if I'm lynched. But only for yourself and Ori, not for me. That's scum logic, town has to accept that their choices are always difficult for a reason and not harp on it, instead doing their absolute best to find scum rather than spread fear.

Once again: Find where Ori has been helpful so far for anyone but himself.

 

[Jdietz43]

The bolded bit is not even the reason for why I want to lynch you. You are strawmanning my argument. Orbo has been squirming, especially when pressed by Rake with a certain quote saying, "man why are you tunneling me so hard?" Rake and Bardull have presented reasonings for why they feel he is scum. Rake has even presented a case against him so there has been evidence against Orbo, have you read that case?
[/I]

I specifically remember Rake saying he was holding off until he had actual evidence since he didn't want to make a push for no reason. I don't recall Bardull ever saying anything more than "I'm not sure about it".

Did you yourself not read either of those parts?

 

[Jdietz43]

J-scum for blatantly using half-truths and full on lies in his defense of Ori and his latest attack angle on me. There's no excuse for this kind of behavior as town.

 

[Jdietz43]

Looked back and found what you were referring to wrt to Bardull's scum read of Orbo, it's a weak suspicion based entirely around Zen meta. Not up to snuff to what you're making claims to.

This is insanely bad logic. When they stop being scum? So you think all of Bardull/Shotty/J/Rake/Ori are scum? Are you insane? The only one with a town-read on you that has clung to it is Orbo so Orbo is the only one town to you? Your reads are vapid and solely rely on how people view you. This proves my point of you not caring to develop your reads. Expound on them, build cases on people, make the effort to determine alignment.

Bardull and Shotty never had me as scum, merely disliked my aggressive posting. I don't recall Rake ever making a definite stance on the matter since he hasn't gotten a chance to look over my slot yet.

yeah, i'll get right on that *looks at all JD's posts and sees he has most so far *

Also, not to kick a boat i already overturned, but isn't it a little interesting how i call what seems to be almost everyone's "strong townie " read scum and only orbo himself and J bothered to disagree with me **excluding Ori who has stated as leaning scum on orbo *

Something to think about

Lynch all liars J.

 

[Jdietz43]

(sorry got kicked off my computer for a moment)


Vote: J

 

[#HBC | J]

BS on your claim of BS. Find me where Ori has tried to help us out rather than prevent his own lynch at all costs. You won't be able to because he hasn't. I've been showing my scum reads and things to work with liberally wrt you and Ori scum.

Once again: Find where Ori has been helpful so far for anyone but himself.

Alright then, you say its BS. Here are posts of Ori's. Show me where he has only been helpful to himself in all his posts since apparantly "so far" he has not. Show me where he needs. Show me where he hasn't kept things going. He has had a scum-read on you since D2 right before the Vitamin wagon started. I'm showing you he actually has quotes in here that have questions being poised and him actually using his head to find scum. He hasn't been trying to prevent his lynch the entire game at all costs nor has he been doing that.

He has even asked Bardull his opinion on his wagon for what he thinks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D64AJq9tPCU - Show me *this song is stuck in my head thanks to you because it is PERFECT for this. xD I love this play*

[collapse=Really, Ditzy?]

Here to confirm! Lets have a good game guys!

Oh man just looked at the roster, 12 people? This will be a very fun game! People need to confirm so we can start D:<

Woooot RVS!

Vote: Shottymaster

to answer your question Sen, this will be my 3rd Newbie game. In total I have done 4 games. I played in Higurashi Mafia as my first game a couple months ago. This will be my last Newbie and I will continue on in the higher up games.

EBWoP: *Zen


Remember, never edit your posts. Thats a big mo no and I learned it in the last game :x

Well in my first game I was mafia. I kinda felt nervous because I didnt wanna get exposed especially since I was nooby.

Overall I favor being Townie in forum mafia. Its just a personal preference.

I have yet to make any true claims as to who the potential scums are. Like I posted originally, "Woo RVS"

its the initial post of D1, Random Voting Stage. Everyone randomly votes because there is nothing crucial known yet. I will be reading theough the past 2 pages tonight/tomorrow morning. I'm mad tired after my friends birthday so I will make proper responses and possible acusations tomorrow.

Seeing 4 votes on Ran is interesting. Going to delve deeper into his posts.

More to come.

I'll be V/LA until the early evening. Going to the Zoo for my friends birthday.

Sorry for eing inactive yesterday. Friend's birthday make me have no time for internet. I will be reading over the past few pages and I will begin playing catchup

~cheers

Yes I can finally!

To start things off UNVOTE
- we are clearly out of RVS, so I will get rid of my RVS vote.

After reading through looking at everyone people posted the most about, aka Ran, Vinyl, and Kary, these are my opinions.

Ran
I believe, was trying very hard to get this ball moving. I am against a lot of his stances that he made on people. I also believe it is way to early to try and put a place for each player in this game. I'm leaning towards null-scum on him. I'll have more to comment on his actions with another player soon enough.

Kary
I don't see why everyone was getting on Kary's case.

Spoiler

maybe I missed something in the past few pages, if someone wants to show me post #'s on why Kary is suspicious I'd be grateful.

Kary is definitely leaning as townie in my eyes. But all could change since this is mafia.

Vinyl
This was a tricky one for me, I had to go read through their posts a couple times. For now I'm going to say town, but the way Vinyl has distanced himself from Ran make me think they could be scummates. For now Null-scum


Thats all I got for now, I will be on and off periodically because I have Finals starting Thursday and Final projects due.

I'll be active tonight if anything does go down.

Sorry for being late JD, I was typing then had to go help my mom with stuff xD

whoops I totally didn't look over the end of that post.

I'll go over and look at their relationship once more.

JD what are your thoughts on Vinyl and Ran right now? I'm going to be afk for a couple hours.

I'm still tossing the idea of who to vote for around in my head. I think I might need other impressions before I reach a solid conclusion.

Scummiest? I think I would have to go with Vinyl. He is becoming to buddy-buddy with Ran. From personal experience, I try not to make friends till at least D2 or 3. His method is both intriguing but confusing to me. He could be playing smart try to expose Ran, or he could just be Newbie-mafia trying to hold hands with his scummate throughout the game.



1. If Ran is the first lynch I would say Kary or Vinyl. But that would be based solely on who was killed during the night phase.

2. If Ran doesn't become the lynch target, I believe Vinyl and Kary should be the first in line for questioning. This is solely based off how I've read each of them in the past couple pages.

3. Kuzi is a damn good player. In a past game he was able to target the 3 mafia members in 1.5 day cycles. He shouldn't be underestimated a player. I am both for/against it. I dislike when there are people who are 100% unproductive. It impedes the town's success and is damaging to the game as a whole thats when I feel like that lynch is ok. If a person has a legitimate excuse for absence I am against the lynch. I give the inactives a Null for now. When D2 rolls around I will see how I feel about them.

Ugh I hate when I see neurotic grammar mistakes and I can't edit ;~;

Yes you are leaning town but I can still have my suspicions thats part of Mafia. I never said either of you should be lynched. I don't toss that stuff around like rice at a wedding. I said you 2 should be the first questioned.

Kary quote him next time. I thought that post was directed at me and I got scared lol.

GLG what did you see in the past pages that made you come to this conclusion?

I see what you mean. I definitely could have reworded that better. I, by no means, meant anything secretive xD.

LOL i totally didn't read the "not"

I would say Vinyl

Aleate just make a bit of tie to make check in posts, to express your thoughts on whats at hand. Thats what I'll be doing this week and next week since I have Finals starting this Thursday

is the best emote on this site, thats why I use it. But lets not get derailed.

Request Mod Count

This is going to influence my vote. I'm still very suspicious of Ran, but Vinyl's case is getting to be a lot stronger. More to come later, I need to get working on a Final Drawing Project.

Spoiler

OOC: Kary could use of that emote ;]

Spoiler

*good replaces could.

Shotty and JD are town. Shotty just hasn't been very helpful. JD has been doing great as far as getting things to progress and making this active.

I'm curious as to why your posts/attitude have made a complete 180.

When I say unhelpful, I meant he was targeting only one person and not looking at the whole spectrum. Definitely could have worded that better.

And your attitude/post style has basically jumped from being serious to near lacidazical. You seem like you've lost interest in your claim on shotty. You seemed quite adament about that claim. Why drop it so fast?

A few pages back I believe you made a claim on Shotty being scum. I dont want to go back and check since I'm on my phone.

Holy crap a lot happened. I'll be going over everything in a bit.

Spoiler

I told you all Kuz is a godlike player

Kary was mafia and was killed during N1? Thats a very interesting move on the mafia part. Especially since we had already had hunches of Kary to begin with. Everyone we need to jump on this. 1 mafia down, 1 more to go (I believe)

So there are 4 mafia?

Oh Thats great to know, I thought this ended up being a standard mafia setup, not F/I. But cool cool. We got this

But yeah I'm legitimently surprised he was a vanilla

Well with Kary gone, who do we look into? I'm still for a Vinyl lynch.

No I actually didn't haha.

That was just me counting the number of players :L

Zen lets get focused here. Who are you thinking is scum?

By looking at the player list at the bottom :L

Ran's town flip was utterly surprising. But I think he began to lose hope once we all were basically convinced he was scum. I'm going to try and look back when I can today since I'll be studying for finals.


Sorry I actually feel asleep while posting a response and when I woke up the response had been deleted. I'm actually not faking ignorance, I have never played/heard of fire/ice mafia until this game (even then I didn't know I was in it till a few pages back). Your post, the I quoted below, now makes me understand how this format works.



This.

It is rather suspicious tbh. Vinyl how do you respond to this?


That is great, I hope we can keep the doctor alive long as possible.



Welp, I'm going to study all the academics. I'll poke in to look at activity and try to post whenever I can throughout the day.

I never really included Vitamin on my list of potential scum. I think I'll look at his posts later today.

Why is this so dead :L





When I have hunch that someone could be scum, why is it so bad to get someone else's opinion? After hearing what you said, I wanted to go back and take a second look at what I thought previously.

When did I even post my opinions on Vinyl other than saying "I can agree to a Vinyl lynch"? Please tell me.



Didn't I explained that I didn't know what fire/ice mafia was? Also, I'm not the only one who didn't know about it as well. But look I looked at the Player list which is at the end of the OP and was said by JTB.




This irks me a lot.

You're calling me out on a RVS? Really, an RVS?

An RVS it has zero merit, its random, there is no thought put into it. I picked a player at random like everyone else. But just because I chose the same name as someone else entails scum like behavior?



I responded to someone who was talking to me so that in turn entails scumlike behavior? I really wanna know why you used this as a justification. Everyone responds to each other friendly most of the time why do you not view that as scum like?

-----


Moving forward, I hope this thread gets more active. I wanna see those who did next to nothing during D1 talk and give opinions.

until then, FoS JD

So many prods :x

Yup, and I just got on summer vacation so I have all the free time to focus on this.

To be quite honest, I am joining the wagon right now. The way you presented your case on him was simply phenomenal and it was what made me change my mind from a Vinyl lynch to Vitamin.

Spoiler

I still give you major props for your invested time on Vitamin good stuff

I'm still going to be re reading more since my time is now truly available.

Sorry for being a little bit afk. I'llbe available tonight.

A quick question for everyone, since Shotty and Vitamin seem to be the biggest targets for lynch right now. Who would you suggest we look into during the next day phase (Include if they flip town or scum)

Orbo, do you know what is Vitamin's count? I already have my vote on him so that won't be changing.

I guess I'll ask you this question since its nearly the end of the day,
1.) If Vitamin flips scum who should we look at during the next day phase?
2.) If Vitamin flips town who should we look at during the next day phase?

A ride with J?! I might consider this :3




I didn't see any I just read through the past like 6 pages just to catch up since this thread just exploded with activity. I'll go back and recheck to see if I missed anything.



I'll give you my thoughts...

J: In my 4 games I've played, J has been in like 2 or 3 of them. He has been a solid player. He is one to never underestimate. I like the way he is playing the game currently. He is giving great reads, and is becoming very pivotal. I have a Town read on him.

JD: When the game started, I had a town read. But in recent events JD is becoming very iffy. He is constantly changing his decisions

Orbo: I'm not sure yet, but after reading some of his posts I want to say town.

Vinyl: Townie. When I made my first read in the beginning I targeted him as scum. After reading everyone else's thoughts and taking a second look I see that he has been being "dumb-townie."

Vitamin C: I'm still convinced he is scum like almost everyone.

Spoiler

Sorry for this post taking like 20+ minutes (Got distracted by TV/friends on Skype).

I'll be afk for a bit, doing a wifi tourney, will check in between sets.

I think he knows that we cornered him.

Vitamin is L1. Can you please make a claim sir.

I will follow J for he is my god.

I mean

Well alright another town is gone and we still have 3 mafia alive, this is looking absolutely horrendous. I'm beginning to rethink my reads right now.

Soup was someone I agreed with and now that he is gone, I think his read on JD is correct.

JD: When this game first started I had you as a town read. As this game progressed, you slowly drifted from the original town read. In the back of my head I began seeing you more and more as scum. I truly believe now, that soup had a correct read on you.

J: When you joined this game I knew town's chance of success jumped a lot. You are a solid player and you are someone you want on your side. I think you have had good reads and have been a great help. Although, something just isn't settling with me about you. As much as I want you to be town, I have the slightest thought of you being scum (tbh its like 8:2 town). I'm going to be extra careful when reading your posts.

Orbo: I don't ave much to say, but here is what I got. I honestly believe you to be a town and maybe the doctor. I haven't really looked into who could have what roles yet. I have been focusing mainly on who is town and who is scum.

----

When we have come to the decision of who we want lynched and are in the night phase waiting for the mafia to select their targets. The mod has always asked for the mafia to hurry up and choose (This usually happens when a day or 2 has passed IRL) This makes me believe that one of the inactives is a Mafia member. I don't think its Aleate and I think its Serin.

I would be more than happy with a Serin or JD lynch for today.


Vote: JD


FoS: Serin

he has asked twice.

• Asked when there was 9 hours left here

• And again he apologized for the Night taking too long here and here, my hunch was that mafia was taking way too long again.


Oh, I will go respond asap.

Orbo was there more beyond post 1035? Thats what I am looking at.

Thank you sir, I will look at that one now.

[/collapse]

Ori_Bro has scum-hunted, bottom line, clear as day, don't try this BS with me. You will burn.

 

[#HBC | J]

Reason for the song Show Me in my head, I'm tired of Ditzy just speaking words but not SHOWING me anything. It's a whole lot of words.

Another random note: My Orbo scum-read is purely relative to my scum-read on Ditzy. If Ditzy were to flip town, I don't think I'd have a scum-read on Orbo. If Ditzy were to flip Fire Mafia, I would also not really have a scum-read on Orbo.

 

[#HBC | J]

More lies J. It is incredibly anti-town to only pay note of the negative impact of lynching town. You're doing it too when talking about not wanting to be lynched next if I'm lynched. But only for yourself and Ori, not for me. That's scum logic, town has to accept that their choices are always difficult for a reason and not harp on it, instead doing their absolute best to find scum rather than spread fear.

I'm not only paying note to the negative impact of lynching town but you aren't even responding to the main point as to why I made that post. Yes, I don't want to be lynched, I'm town, that's anti-town to be wanting to be lynched like yourself, not the other way around. It's not scum-logic and I am trying to find scum and not just spread fear. Oy....

First thing:

I specifically remember Rake saying he was holding off until he had actual evidence since he didn't want to make a push for no reason. I don't recall Bardull ever saying anything more than "I'm not sure about it".

Did you yourself not read either of those parts?

[collapse=Rake vs. Orbo]

My stuff = red
zen / orbo's stuff = white

If it helps for mafia to play protective townie, then by virtue of that selfsame statement it helps you most to play the protective townie look while being scum .

How would you know this early that it will be easier for mafia to blend in with reg town, even with the two factions, you said yourself you had never played this set up, so it could be easier or harder for mafia to blend.

By leading people around with well worded arguements you are able to lead people around to reconsider their initial reads, while asserting yourself firmly in their mind as town, very productive for someone possibly anti town especially because we townies so far have lynched our own, that means that either

a) mafia is one of the inactive players : leaning to serin because of quotes yet incoming from other players, meaning the other member could just let town keep flailing around, despite the inactivity

b) you are the other mafia member and now have to damage control to pick up karys mess

c) you have genuine concern for the towns well being



Not really a defence to his accusation, which i can understand slightly due to lack of any real evidence being provided , but now when i go back to it , it seems like your trying to deflect attention from the scum read Kary had on you

So the only way he makes it out alive is jumping a wagon ? Not roleclaiming town or actually posting something that makes people reconsider to a town alignment , i imagine his play was purposely unstructured to throw the different mafia factions into a "what if.." situation, where they couldn't get a read on rans aligment, obv this did not go so well for him

So, basically you are willing to wagon on because everyone else is, not because you have your own strong scum read or because you noticed something off with posts ? Seems semi anti - town to me **btw if i missed reading your opinion on this please link it , still trying to get le hang of this **

But yet all we've been giving scum is time , town has already lynched two of its own and lost one, giving both mafia factions **one with only 1 person left ** ample time to escape and create anti-town content.

It wasn't necessarily anti town at that point either, he could have unvoted simply to cast pressure to another player or to avoid a fast lynch, you have to at least concede that in hindsight dragging it out a little would have not been hurtful to town

I actually contemplated this earlier

And yet you did nothing about it ? Seems like if you already had it in mind that you would have been the first to post it, not wait for someone else to reach the same conclusions you had


Quote:
Originally Posted by th3kuzinator
Don't bother looking for scummates as a basis for finding someone scum. Always backfires. I don't know why Zen is scumhunting in that manner, either.

he's right ? in what context, that you are hunting scum tangent to the effective way ? Maybe because you know yourself to be scum, thus making your scumhunting efforts change . Or was he right about ineffective ways of scumhunting, to which he has stated you as doing as well. Relevance to your agreement would be nice

There are only two ways this could be in your interest at that time :

1) you are town aligned and needed to see if Rans scum teams were anywhere close to yours (under the assumption ran was scum )

2) you are part of the team kary was and wanted to see if ran had reads on the other team that coincided with your own , thereby getting town view so you had an idea of who to look out for

if you have another reason, feel free to explain it

How could you guarantee this ? That would mean you are either the doc and able to save his scumbuddy or mafia to control your scummate not to lynch / do anything about Rans scumbuddy. Thge least likely is that you are town and would try to convince everyone not to lynch Rans scum buddy, effectively making you scum swing


See post 610 here for relevance to my next thing


If it didn't make sense, why not even touch on why it didn't or for that matter say anything , besides pressuering Ran, who had pressure already, would your time have been better spent to get on the logic right then and there ?


I have nothing on orbo yet, but by extension of him replacing out zen, my reads on zen move to him, until i go back and re read / more posting by orbo happens to sway my opinion

My stuff = red
zen / orbo's stuff = white

If it helps for mafia to play protective townie, then by virtue of that selfsame statement it helps you most to play the protective townie look while being scum .

Mafia attempts to look town while still being scum, easier to do in this setup since they actually do need to look for scum. Zen had no scum intention that I read in these posts.
Explained above, mafia 101. Mafia must look townie to avoid being lynched. much easier to do when mafia actually has to scumhunt for the other team.

It's a townies job to get their viewpoint across to other people, it doesn't matter how good your reads are if youu can't get others to act on them.

C is always the correct answer. you do know we are playing with a two mafia team setup yes?

How can zen defend form something that has nothing presented? it was a blanket accusation and Zen asked for reasoning, which never came iirc.

scum dies unless they lynch scum. that was the mentality.
also roleclaiming means next to nothing unless you're the doc in this setup, since scum can just claim vt.


I can't speak for the ran lynch, but vitamin was scummy as **** as i pointed out with my own reasoning and zen/J/slightly jd pointed out.

Dunno bout this, zen was being zen.

getting someone else's reads isn't in someone's best interest? especially on a second scum team roaming, going under the ranscum assumption ran would know one person is on his team and so he would have a better look for who might be the other scum team.

no idea on if zen would have gone through with this or just trying to get a free lynch prize out of ran, but zen does have influence.

Ah , sorry bout that, i know my initial reads may have not been to in depth, smash boards kept logging me out every 10 minutes, so i didn't make it through all the pages before i posted, which was my bad, this is also why i didn't have anything for J, which i will be doing later today.

For ori, some of the posting and things other players have said have really stuck with me for example :

Ori_Bro Wrote:

If ori was nervous in that game (which i wasn't there for ofc) then i would imagine he / she didn't post much and tried to avoid drawing questions and again in this play he / she has been slightly inactive and active going in peeks, makes me think that he / she is mafia again and has realized that the play style worked previously and is using it again only this time building up more activity to appear less scummy, seeing as many people view inactives as essentially scum.


Ori_bro wrote:

Why didn't he / she read the entire thing before formulating an opinion on it (i know i am guilty of this, but i readily admit that was my bad) seems like maybe he / she was trying to feed JD what he /she thought JD wanted to hear.

Ori_bro wrote:



Not really so much interesting as odd, why not let Kary live and try to get a cc from the doc, why not have Kary claim town ? The other mafia threw kary under the bus after everyones suspicions started piling on to him , this either suggests that both other mafia members had a strong read on him or one of them convinced the other , either way Kary being night killed means the other mafia has at least some semblance of an idea as to the opposite team, it might be easier to allow them to kill each other and go from there


Ori_bro wrote:

Why jump on zens opinion like its the gospel truth, what ideas did Ori_bro have and why not air them out ? If Ori_bro agrees , then why not restate things you found odd ?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel
Each of you on the Vitamin wagon I'd like for you to explain which parts of the case you agree with/why it makes him scummy in your own words.




Ori's response :




Again, even after being asked for an explanation behind the vote, Ori's response was to "join the wagon" and just use Zens case, without presenting additional thoughts on it, seems strange to me, i know it could well be the case that Ori had nothing to add, but to me it seems like even a little tid bit of the thoughts ori had would have been useful

Ori_bro wrote:




that is not only ominous but entirely unhelpful, if you think every vote currently is in the wrong place, why not add some reads to that post, Ori only did ones for J, JD and Orbo, while skipping serin, shotty as well as others, seems strange to me

Then finally in post 1109
Ori does some on serin, but moves back to J and orbo , then asks shotty for thoughts, seems like there might be something there to look into, not saying focusing on certain people is bad, but i would have i know i would have appreciated even a little view of Ori's thoughts on my player (Aleate) shotty, etc

So right now for ori i'm leaning scum-null, i will be going back , but for now its more scum than null, maybe 60 - 40 for me

@J: you'll find i do many things that make absolutely no sense at all, usually because it works so well : ), i am a surprising person to say the least, look forward to seeing what you and others see my slot as

[/collapse]

And then:

Bardull and Shotty never had me as scum, merely disliked my aggressive posting. I don't recall Rake ever making a definite stance on the matter since he hasn't gotten a chance to look over my slot yet.

JDietz / Shotty : one of them is scum, leaning to JDeitz after seeing the jump on ran, even though rans play was odd, it was sort of i feel structured to purposely throw people off , maybe the reads he had were inaccurate , maybe they weren't in the end his sideways action threw him under the bus. Shotty didnt seem to upset about being band wagoned , so either he was clear town and had nothing to worry about or scum with the knowledge he could off the people who got too close

Wooooooooah. Did not see the next post by JD. LOL. May have to retract the JD town read right about now.

Ori's response feels a lot more legit.

This especially makes me suspicious of JD.

So what he just said is that he couldn't care less if anyone but yourself or Orbo were to die. That's the single scummiest statement I've heard ever. He clearly has no town intent at heart, judging from this post. Now I clearly see why J was pushing for your lynch earlier.

Flipping = the person dies. So he just wants people to die and he really doesn't care who it is, not even himself because he knows that J will get him lynched sooner or later anyway.

You look pretty damn scummy to me JD.

Bardull, I'd like to know your thoughts on JD since you're the new replacement.

Lynch all liars J.

So do you wanna remove your own foot from your mouth or shall I help you with that? ;P

 

[#HBC | J]

@J: you'll find i do many things that make absolutely no sense at all, usually because it works so well : ), i am a surprising person to say the least, look forward to seeing what you and others see my slot as

Seems I didn't see this when I first read your post Rake but yes I do see you are a bit of a surprising character. I don't think I welcomed you to the game but hiya! =D

So far, I feel you are a pretty strong town read of mine. Can I get you to join me on a Ditzy-Lynch since you have a scum-read on him?

 

[Shottymaster]

 

[#HBC | J]

Shotty, would you join in the Ditzy wagon?

 

[Jdietz43]

Ori_Bro has scum-hunted, bottom line, clear as day, don't try this BS with me. You will burn.

Hey: notice anything funny about all of these posts you cite for his scum-hunting? They're all since before he was put on the block. Give me something he's done lately, not his terrible wagon joining and his lone vote on me.

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh so you were limiting the spectrum to just recently when he has been put to L-2? So all his actions beforehand should just disappear? That's not how this game works Ditzy.

 

[Jdietz43]

Oh so you were limiting the spectrum to just recently when he has been put to L-2? So all his actions beforehand should just disappear? That's not how this game works Ditzy.

And yet you didn't point out specifics of Ori actively scum-hunting, you just posted all of Ori's posts and assumed this would somehow help your case. You want me to point you to the parts where he votes and says nothing again? I'm still waiting for you to actually show me Ori being helpful in comparison to me.


Also I don't like how you literally posted a wall but had no explanation for any of it. Words =/= content J, and you're full of words.


I'll remove my foot when I'm dead. I stand by what I said 100%, they haven't pushed me so much as discussed me. They know what happened and what their intent was, and I'm confident they can see you twisting this for your own purpose.

 

[Jdietz43]

Oh so you were limiting the spectrum to just recently when he has been put to L-2? So all his actions beforehand should just disappear? That's not how this game works Ditzy.

You act like Ori had hundreds of actions of note.

Did you even read the quotes you posted from him? Most of them are him claiming to be V/LA and barely substantiating his reads.

 

[#HBC | J]

Literally posted a wall with no explanation....what?

You stand by what you said....what? You are 100% wrong in what you are saying w.r.t. Rake vs. Orbo and also 100% wrong on the people actually having scum-reads on you. Yet you are convinced that its just me twisting what you are saying. Ditzy, people BESIDES ME find you scummy, your logic is invalid.

 

[#HBC | J]

You act like Ori had hundreds of actions of note.

Did you even read the quotes you posted from him? Most of them are him claiming to be V/LA and barely substantiating his reads.

You act like he did nothing at all when he has. You are being unfair in your argument against Ori.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'll let their voting do the talking. You've gone off the deep end J. You're tunneling on me and defending Ori for points that don't exist.


Let's look at Ori's posts that you posted for scum-hunting shall we?

Here to confirm! Lets have a good game guys!

Nope

Oh man just looked at the roster, 12 people? This will be a very fun game! People need to confirm so we can start D:<

Nope

Woooot RVS!

Vote: Shottymaster

to answer your question Sen, this will be my 3rd Newbie game. In total I have done 4 games. I played in Higurashi Mafia as my first game a couple months ago. This will be my last Newbie and I will continue on in the higher up games.

Maybe...? But nah

EBWoP: *Zen


Remember, never edit your posts. Thats a big mo no and I learned it in the last game :x

Nope

Well in my first game I was mafia. I kinda felt nervous because I didnt wanna get exposed especially since I was nooby.

Overall I favor being Townie in forum mafia. Its just a personal preference.

Nope

I have yet to make any true claims as to who the potential scums are. Like I posted originally, "Woo RVS"

its the initial post of D1, Random Voting Stage. Everyone randomly votes because there is nothing crucial known yet. I will be reading theough the past 2 pages tonight/tomorrow morning. I'm mad tired after my friends birthday so I will make proper responses and possible acusations tomorrow.

Actively avoids making a stance, Nope

Seeing 4 votes on Ran is interesting. Going to delve deeper into his posts.

More to come.

Nope

I'll be V/LA until the early evening. Going to the Zoo for my friends birthday.

Nope

Sorry for eing inactive yesterday. Friend's birthday make me have no time for internet. I will be reading over the past few pages and I will begin playing catchup

~cheers

Nope

Yes I can finally!

To start things off UNVOTE
- we are clearly out of RVS, so I will get rid of my RVS vote.

After reading through looking at everyone people posted the most about, aka Ran, Vinyl, and Kary, these are my opinions.

Ran
I believe, was trying very hard to get this ball moving. I am against a lot of his stances that he made on people. I also believe it is way to early to try and put a place for each player in this game. I'm leaning towards null-scum on him. I'll have more to comment on his actions with another player soon enough.

Kary
I don't see why everyone was getting on Kary's case. maybe I missed something in the past few pages, if someone wants to show me post #'s on why Kary is suspicious I'd be grateful. Kary is definitely leaning as townie in my eyes. But all could change since this is mafia.

Vinyl
This was a tricky one for me, I had to go read through their posts a couple times. For now I'm going to say town, but the way Vinyl has distanced himself from Ran make me think they could be scummates. For now Null-scum


Thats all I got for now, I will be on and off periodically because I have Finals starting Thursday and Final projects due.

I'll be active tonight if anything does go down.

OK

Sorry for being late JD, I was typing then had to go help my mom with stuff xD

Nope

whoops I totally didn't look over the end of that post.

I'll go over and look at their relationship once more.

Definitely Nope

JD what are your thoughts on Vinyl and Ran right now? I'm going to be afk for a couple hours.

I'm still tossing the idea of who to vote for around in my head. I think I might need other impressions before I reach a solid conclusion.

Shaky at best but I'll take it

Scummiest? I think I would have to go with Vinyl. He is becoming to buddy-buddy with Ran. From personal experience, I try not to make friends till at least D2 or 3. His method is both intriguing but confusing to me. He could be playing smart try to expose Ran, or he could just be Newbie-mafia trying to hold hands with his scummate throughout the game.



1. If Ran is the first lynch I would say Kary or Vinyl. But that would be based solely on who was killed during the night phase.

2. If Ran doesn't become the lynch target, I believe Vinyl and Kary should be the first in line for questioning. This is solely based off how I've read each of them in the past couple pages.

3. Kuzi is a damn good player. In a past game he was able to target the 3 mafia members in 1.5 day cycles. He shouldn't be underestimated a player. I am both for/against it. I dislike when there are people who are 100% unproductive. It impedes the town's success and is damaging to the game as a whole thats when I feel like that lynch is ok. If a person has a legitimate excuse for absence I am against the lynch. I give the inactives a Null for now. When D2 rolls around I will see how I feel about them.

OK

Ugh I hate when I see neurotic grammar mistakes and I can't edit ;~;

Nope

Yes you are leaning town but I can still have my suspicions thats part of Mafia. I never said either of you should be lynched. I don't toss that stuff around like rice at a wedding. I said you 2 should be the first questioned.

Weaselly

Kary quote him next time. I thought that post was directed at me and I got scared lol.

GLG what did you see in the past pages that made you come to this conclusion?

Afraid, but sure

I see what you mean. I definitely could have reworded that better. I, by no means, meant anything secretive xD.

Nope

LOL i totally didn't read the "not"

I would say Vinyl

Nope, we had to ask him

Aleate just make a bit of tie to make check in posts, to express your thoughts on whats at hand. Thats what I'll be doing this week and next week since I have Finals starting this Thursday

Nope

is the best emote on this site, thats why I use it. But lets not get derailed.

Nope

Request Mod Count

This is going to influence my vote. I'm still very suspicious of Ran, but Vinyl's case is getting to be a lot stronger. More to come later, I need to get working on a Final Drawing Project.

OOC: Kary could use of that emote ;]

Just promises later activity, nope

*good replaces could.

Nope

Shotty and JD are town. Shotty just hasn't been very helpful. JD has been doing great as far as getting things to progress and making this active.

I'm curious as to why your posts/attitude have made a complete 180.

Good

When I say unhelpful, I meant he was targeting only one person and not looking at the whole spectrum. Definitely could have worded that better.

And your attitude/post style has basically jumped from being serious to near lacidazical. You seem like you've lost interest in your claim on shotty. You seemed quite adament about that claim. Why drop it so fast?

Ok

A few pages back I believe you made a claim on Shotty being scum. I dont want to go back and check since I'm on my phone.

Nope

Holy crap a lot happened. I'll be going over everything in a bit.

I told you all Kuz is a godlike player

Nope

Kary was mafia and was killed during N1? Thats a very interesting move on the mafia part. Especially since we had already had hunches of Kary to begin with. Everyone we need to jump on this. 1 mafia down, 1 more to go (I believe)

Nope

So there are 4 mafia?

Nope

Oh Thats great to know, I thought this ended up being a standard mafia setup, not F/I. But cool cool. We got this

But yeah I'm legitimently surprised he was a vanilla

Nope

Well with Kary gone, who do we look into? I'm still for a Vinyl lynch.

Ok

No I actually didn't haha.

Nope

That was just me counting the number of players :L

Zen lets get focused here. Who are you thinking is scum?

Ok, but deflecting Zen

By looking at the player list at the bottom :L

Nope

Ran's town flip was utterly surprising. But I think he began to lose hope once we all were basically convinced he was scum. I'm going to try and look back when I can today since I'll be studying for finals.


Sorry I actually feel asleep while posting a response and when I woke up the response had been deleted. I'm actually not faking ignorance, I have never played/heard of fire/ice mafia until this game (even then I didn't know I was in it till a few pages back). Your post, the I quoted below, now makes me understand how this format works.



This.

It is rather suspicious tbh. Vinyl how do you respond to this?


That is great, I hope we can keep the doctor alive long as possible.



Welp, I'm going to study all the academics. I'll poke in to look at activity and try to post whenever I can throughout the day.

There's a grain of helpfulness in there, but overall nope

I never really included Vitamin on my list of potential scum. I think I'll look at his posts later today.

Nope

Why is this so dead :L




When I have hunch that someone could be scum, why is it so bad to get someone else's opinion? After hearing what you said, I wanted to go back and take a second look at what I thought previously.

When did I even post my opinions on Vinyl other than saying "I can agree to a Vinyl lynch"? Please tell me.



Didn't I explained that I didn't know what fire/ice mafia was? Also, I'm not the only one who didn't know about it as well. But look I looked at the Player list which is at the end of the OP and was said by JTB.




This irks me a lot.

You're calling me out on a RVS? Really, an RVS?

An RVS it has zero merit, its random, there is no thought put into it. I picked a player at random like everyone else. But just because I chose the same name as someone else entails scum like behavior?



I responded to someone who was talking to me so that in turn entails scumlike behavior? I really wanna know why you used this as a justification. Everyone responds to each other friendly most of the time why do you not view that as scum like?

-----


Moving forward, I hope this thread gets more active. I wanna see those who did next to nothing during D1 talk and give opinions.

until then, FoS JD

Self preservation, discredits self from voting Vinyl

So many prods :x

Nope

Yup, and I just got on summer vacation so I have all the free time to focus on this.

Nope

To be quite honest, I am joining the wagon right now. The way you presented your case on him was simply phenomenal and it was what made me change my mind from a Vinyl lynch to Vitamin. I still give you major props for your invested time on Vitamin good stuff

I'm still going to be re reading more since my time is now truly available.

Nope, just joined Zen on piggyback

Sorry for being a little bit afk. I'llbe available tonight.

A quick question for everyone, since Shotty and Vitamin seem to be the biggest targets for lynch right now. Who would you suggest we look into during the next day phase (Include if they flip town or scum)

Ok

Orbo, do you know what is Vitamin's count? I already have my vote on him so that won't be changing.

I guess I'll ask you this question since its nearly the end of the day,
1.) If Vitamin flips scum who should we look at during the next day phase?
2.) If Vitamin flips town who should we look at during the next day phase?

Ok

A ride with J?! I might consider this :3

Nope

I didn't see any I just read through the past like 6 pages just to catch up since this thread just exploded with activity. I'll go back and recheck to see if I missed anything.



I'll give you my thoughts...

J: In my 4 games I've played, J has been in like 2 or 3 of them. He has been a solid player. He is one to never underestimate. I like the way he is playing the game currently. He is giving great reads, and is becoming very pivotal. I have a Town read on him.

JD: When the game started, I had a town read. But in recent events JD is becoming very iffy. He is constantly changing his decisions

Orbo: I'm not sure yet, but after reading some of his posts I want to say town.

Vinyl: Townie. When I made my first read in the beginning I targeted him as scum. After reading everyone else's thoughts and taking a second look I see that he has been being "dumb-townie."

Vitamin C: I'm still convinced he is scum like almost everyone.



Sorry for this post taking like 20+ minutes (Got distracted by TV/friends on Skype).

Ok, but once again a reads list upon being asked and not hunting of his own free will

I'll be afk for a bit, doing a wifi tourney, will check in between sets.

Nope

I think he knows that we cornered him.

Nope

Vitamin is L1. Can you please make a claim sir.

I guess?

I will follow J for he is my god.

Nope

I mean [Venusaur here]

Nope

Well alright another town is gone and we still have 3 mafia alive, this is looking absolutely horrendous. I'm beginning to rethink my reads right now.

Soup was someone I agreed with and now that he is gone, I think his read on JD is correct.

JD: When this game first started I had you as a town read. As this game progressed, you slowly drifted from the original town read. In the back of my head I began seeing you more and more as scum. I truly believe now, that soup had a correct read on you.

J: When you joined this game I knew town's chance of success jumped a lot. You are a solid player and you are someone you want on your side. I think you have had good reads and have been a great help. Although, something just isn't settling with me about you. As much as I want you to be town, I have the slightest thought of you being scum (tbh its like 8:2 town). I'm going to be extra careful when reading your posts.

Orbo: I don't ave much to say, but here is what I got. I honestly believe you to be a town and maybe the doctor. I haven't really looked into who could have what roles yet. I have been focusing mainly on who is town and who is scum.

----

When we have come to the decision of who we want lynched and are in the night phase waiting for the mafia to select their targets. The mod has always asked for the mafia to hurry up and choose (This usually happens when a day or 2 has passed IRL) This makes me believe that one of the inactives is a Mafia member. I don't think its Aleate and I think its Serin.

I would be more than happy with a Serin or JD lynch for today.


Vote: JD


FoS: Serin

Ok, but once again no substantiation for most stances

he has asked twice.

• Asked when there was 9 hours left here

• And again he apologized for the Night taking too long here and here, my hunch was that mafia was taking way too long again.


Oh, I will go respond asap.

ok?

Orbo was there more beyond post 1035? Thats what I am looking at.

Maybe

Thank you sir, I will look at that one now.

Nope, never followed up







As you can see: J's evidence is garbage. He literally just pulled every Ori quote and pretended they were proof of something. Way more of Ori's posts than not have been fluff and not active scumhunting as J would like you to think.

It also forces us to ask the question: "Why did J use every single Ori post for his answer instead of finding specific ones that were decent?"

Because J has to fake content volume to seem legitimate at this point, because there isn't enough solid evidence to make his case actually legitimate without filler and assuming people don't have the willpower to read through his wall.

 

[Jdietz43]

You act like he did nothing at all when he has. You are being unfair in your argument against Ori.

You act like he has done something amazing worth defending over me. Your argument rings hollow. You know I've done much more active scum-hunting that Ori and you have no business pushing that angle, but your'e doing it anyways to protect him. WHY?

 

[#HBC | J]

I'll let Ori_Boat respond to the upper half.

To the part at me. I said for you to prove to me about Ori's posts since you said he had NO Scum-hunting and ALL his posts reeked of self-preservation. By you even saying to one of those posts, "Okay", you have just proved me right and you wrong. I didn't even use every single one of Ori's posts. I just took posts all the way up to toDay mainly.

I am faking content? That point isn't even correct. Prove it by bringing up my posts Ditzy. Not enough solid evidence within my posts? If you are talking about the posts against you, you are mistaken. If you are talking about my scum-hunting posts, again, you are mistaken.

 

[#HBC | J]

You act like he has done something amazing worth defending over me. Your argument rings hollow. You know I've done much more active scum-hunting that Ori and you have no business pushing that angle, but your'e doing it anyways to protect him. WHY?

For the love of goodness, this isn't a battle of Ori vs. Ditzy. I find you scummier than Ori. That's it. I'm not defending Ori, I'm merely fighting your bad logic that I find scummy against Ori in order for your attempt to just lynch Ori over yourself toDay. I abhor how you continue to try and make this a "Look at me! I am better than Ori! Honest!" battle because that's a scummy way of facing an argument and that's called deflection.

I'm not protecting Ori, if you are actually reading my posts. I'm pointing out flaws in your logic and how your argument against him is poor.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'll let Ori_Boat respond to the upper half.

To the part at me. I said for you to prove to me about Ori's posts since you said he had NO Scum-hunting and ALL his posts reeked of self-preservation. By you even saying to one of those posts, "Okay", you have just proved me right and you wrong. I didn't even use every single one of Ori's posts. I just took posts all the way up to toDay mainly.

I am faking content? That point isn't even correct. Prove it by bringing up my posts Ditzy. Not enough solid evidence within my posts? If you are talking about the posts against you, you are mistaken. If you are talking about my scum-hunting posts, again, you are mistaken.

I definitely never claimed all his posts were self preservation if that's what this is about, I've been talking about his posts as of toDay, especially the one in which I color coded responses to:

I'll let Ori_Boat respond to the upper half.

To the part at me. I said for you to prove to me about Ori's posts since you said he had NO Scum-hunting and ALL his posts reeked of self-preservation. By you even saying to one of those posts, "Okay", you have just proved me right and you wrong. I didn't even use every single one of Ori's posts. I just took posts all the way up to toDay mainly.

I am faking content? That point isn't even correct. Prove it by bringing up my posts Ditzy. Not enough solid evidence within my posts? If you are talking about the posts against you, you are mistaken. If you are talking about my scum-hunting posts, again, you are mistaken.

My initial thought is that I would play it by ear on Ori_scum and look into J on Ori_town, but for reasons you'll soon see it's going to be J either way assuming no new info from the night phase. (last quote addresses this)

Iirc it was during the early portion of D2, people had it in their mind that Vinyl was still scummy and the primary lynch candidate even after Ran flipped town. Since my Vinyl read was heavily dependent on Ran's alignment I had to set some people straight that while he's incredibly stupid he wasn't our top scum pick.

[/COLOR]
I hate this post. I hate it and am certain I want you hammered by days end.

Orange: Nothing but horrible FUD. This isn't the time to spew about how bad a ML would be, unless you were dead set on us being crippled by fear to clear yourself. You dedicated a whole three paragraphs to instill fear in us on a fact we're already aware of and have to face no matter who gets lynched, you or not you.

Green: You're not supposed to have to forget you made a post to be consistent in opinions. Only scum would have to worry about that, as town you would merely be posting what you felt when you felt it and things would line up naturally.

Yellow: That's not what sarcasm is Ori, and it doesn't mitigate the meaning of your statement. Sarcasm is making an obviously false/degrading statement for humors sake like "No, of course the house is supposed to be on fire", not what you did here. You exaggerated your opinion of J for humor (of course you don't literally think he's a god), but your intent to follow him was clear and was not a joke, as you did follow him.

Red: Yes that happens in mafia games, but you have to give reasons for it. Merely stating that your opinion has changed doesn't mean it's a valid decision. Like my renewed zeal for lynching you can be considered a change of opinion, but I'm currently giving you all the reasons for it. You didn't, you just piggybacked on my J paranoia, and since you didn't elaborate, I can only assume it was to gain sympathy.





I'm waiting to see where you go with it. I think it's a misguided angle, but even pushing a terrible angle can be beneficial (either to see who supports it, or if your push it bad enough to reveal you as scum reaching for lynches)


Oh yeeaaaaaahhh!

Vinyl, I want you reeeeeaaaads!




And I hate hate hate that you actually like his horrible attempt at a "save me" post. Like are you serious? At what point does that begin to clear Ori. You die next.

I feel his posts overall through have leaned towards unhelpfulness as shown by the multiquote, and therefore you trying to bash my argument on that logic is flawed. His scum-hunting posts from before were the minority rather than the majority, and recently have been nonexistant (which you didn't quote any posts of and still haven't addressed). For instance: why did you like the post that I hated? What great tells did it reveal to you of Ori town.

Your arguments lack content because you've still failed to prove Ori's worth in this and haven't actually attacked me for a reason that has been valid. You've simply stated you prefered my lynch to Ori, but not why, and have still failed to redeem Ori by posting all of his quotes up until toDay (which I remind you is dodging the issue).

For the love of goodness, this isn't a battle of Ori vs. Ditzy. I find you scummier than Ori. That's it. I'm not defending Ori, I'm merely fighting your bad logic that I find scummy against Ori in order for your attempt to just lynch Ori over yourself toDay. I abhor how you continue to try and make this a "Look at me! I am better than Ori! Honest!" battle because that's a scummy way of facing an argument and that's called deflection.

I'm not protecting Ori, if you are actually reading my posts. I'm pointing out flaws in your logic and how your argument against him is poor.

You've personally made it one by shifting the discussion there. Instead of attacking me and why you think I'm scum, you've been defending Ori, acting as if that is your priority and he's your scum-mate. You've yet to actually prove my argument against him is poor, showing your own argument is poor and most likely scummy in return.

 

[Jdietz43]

@JD - I like your case on Ori and I'm thinking about jumping on board. Who are Ori's scum mate though, or do you think Ori is the last fire?

That's two people who think there's a point to the Ori wagon, so I think you need to get to explaining why you think it's a bad choice J.


(This dueling walls thing isn't helping town or either of us)


I want to hear why you think my points on Ori are bad in a nutshell, and why that one post I disliked was defend-able. I think that's a good place to start.

 

[#HBC | J]

Wait a second, you are connecting me and Ori together as scum-mates.

Oh lordy.

I'm done for a bit, I can only take so much mafia for so long I apologize.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yes, yes I am. It's the only reason I could see you defending him so hard rather than focusing on me and my actions. You've been reaching an awful lot lately and as far as I can tell it all hinges on Ori.

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm done for a bit, I can only take so much mafia for so long I apologize.

That's fine. It's probably for the best. I don't think either of us are on the same page about each other's arguments anymore.

 

[Ramen King]

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline 5/16, 11:59 PM EST

Vinyl. [0]
Anomandaris_Rake [0]
Ori_bro [2] Vinyl, Orboknown
Bardull [0]
Shottymaster [0]
Jdietz [2] Ori_bro, J
Orboknown [0]
J [1] Jdietz

Not voting: Bardull, Shottymaster., Anomandaris_Rake

 

[Jdietz43]

Rake/Shotty: Thoughts?

 

[Ori_bro]

I'll be doing a little catch up. Will post hopefully soon.

 

[Ori_bro]

I'll let Ori_Boat respond to the upper half.

There wasn't much for me to respond to haha, it was just him saying "nope" 99% of the post.

The one part I think is iffy is this.

I'll let their voting do the talking. You've gone off the deep end J. You're tunneling on me and defending Ori for points that don't exist.

This doesn't sit right with me.

JD, like J said, he was simply breaking down your logic into 90% of your recent posts. If anyone has been tunneled it was me by you.

You have been at my throat trying to kill me the past few pages, and by few I mean A LOT. You complain about how I am not scum-hunting because I was making my posts about self preservation. Well of course I am going to try and keep myself alive, I had nearly everyone against me and at any moment I could have died. Like hell I am going sit back read through the entire game just trying to get what could be a clue or trace of scum. I was asked to give my reads because I was expected to die. When I simply voted for you and gave my FoS (Which were both previous reads mind you) you snapped. You snapped so hard that you became even more hell bent on killing me.

Have you gone back the past 3 pages and read what you posted? You are getting even more upset at J just because he is breaking down how you are/have been playing. I'm not sure why you can't keep your cool. This is getting out of hand and I want more people to get in on this.


At least there is one thing I can kinda agree with you on JD and thats...

Rake/Shotty: Thoughts?

this.

The past few pages have been nothing but you and J going back and forth. Where has everyone else been to respond and give opinions. The votes are split now 2-2 we need those people who haven't voted to get in here and assist us.

 

[Jdietz43]

Yeah, they were viewing at the time I posted that, but so far haven't said anything.

 

[Jdietz43]

You have been at my throat trying to kill me the past few pages, and by few I mean A LOT. You complain about how I am not scum-hunting because I was making my posts about self preservation. Well of course I am going to try and keep myself alive, I had nearly everyone against me and at any moment I could have died. Like hell I am going sit back read through the entire game just trying to get what could be a clue or trace of scum. I was asked to give my reads because I was expected to die. When I simply voted for you and gave my FoS (Which were both previous reads mind you) you snapped. You snapped so hard that you became even more hell bent on killing me.

You're going to have to defend yourself then. Because to me that post you made was a huge scumtell. (Exactly the kind of mindset I was in trying to save myself in my first scum game from a lynch. I didn't talk about anyone else, just me and "don't do it it'd be bad")


What's your current read on J btw?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Like Anomandaris. Gonna look over some shizzle here and there but he has DEFINITELY got my seal of approval.

I want Orbo dead.

J, where is your head at? I'm starting to get a little worried about you for completely disregarding Zen/Orbo's play. Ran was being TownRan and Zen pushed for his lynch without much deliberation ._. that was just awful.

Holy crap, someone likes me, it must be early Christmas or something , but @ Bardull what do you like me AS ?

Rake, where is your vote going now that it is not on Bardull.

Hi Bardull! Thanks for replacing in! Zen, I just can read him well. That's not a real reason but the reason I like Orbo/Zen is because I can't see the scummy intent behind that slot's posts. Orbo is trying to figure out who is scum and seems to be looking at things and analyzing material he has. What exactly do you find scummy about that slot moreso than they just are?

Well to be honest, until i saw all these juicy posts i was going to vote myself and drag on till i got an idea of everyones heads were at

I'll vote at the end of this reply wall, btw i will be referring to this with some later stuff as it is relevant

Unvote

I really like this post by Ori. o_o

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaap, gotta re-evaluate some thingies first.

Tbh i didn't like the post that much, but i didn't hate it either , felt like Ori was going defence when defence was needed, i think offence might have helped more.

A question for Rake/Orbo/Vinyl/Bardull/Shotty. Who would like to tell me the difference between Ori's response to the pressure mounting on him or Ditzy's response to the pressure mounting on him? Tell me who you think is the more likely to flip scum out of these two people. If you must, give like a number figure. What makes them scummier over the other candidate?

I think this game needs a little...magic to spruce it up a bit since it is becoming a bit dry.

The difference for me so far is Ori has more or less attempted to start to do something and has resorted to some FUD stuff, Deitz did some FUD stuff which i probably will go quote after this wall is done. In all honesty, they seem to have reacted in semi similar ways, i'll be trying to post some similarities i think i might be seeing.

Like can we just lynch scum(aka ori) so i don't have to worry about this thread while im working all weekend?

Now i know sort of how marshy feels

Well we could do that, or we could attempt to do something and get another mafia out and i dislike how orbo nonchalantly throws ori as his only scum lynch concern

also this is ****ing horrible. not gonna post because of typos? making excuses to lurk does NOT fly with me.

rage mode much ? If ori isn't going to post, oris not going to post, reasons be damned

because i hate things being inactive and i just want a flip to get things moving again. remind how that is salty?
picking apart post in a moment

Because if the flip is town we've managed to lynch all town so far, the only mafia kill has been from the other mafia, us townies don't have a great track record

@Rake - Would you still want to push for Orbo right now?

@J - What do you think of Orbo non-chalantly being cool with me and Rake when we have scum reads on him?

Odd thing is, i provided the initial push, seems to me as if my small pressure on orbos' slot has done something as J has flip flopped on it(i have this somewhere) and orbo himself is getting all post erratic.

I'm going to get started with this and going through a few of my thoughts based on my readings. I've decided to hang back a bit and read things that everyone else is posting and everyone has posted in the time I have been waiting so I got to see a few things happen that has changed some reads on some slots.

Saving my big change for the end. Makes me sad.



**1)

This feeling I get of Ditzy-Orbo connection keeps getting stronger by the way the two guys have been treating each other.



**2)

Ditzy has been hammer fishing for someone to quickly end the day with an Ori lynch and it reeks of self-perservation of his own slot in this game instead of actually trying to lynch scum.



**3)

This is the big difference between Ori's and Ditzy's response to pressure. Ori still tries to help town where Ditzy starts flailing and calling everyone else scum and acting Ori. Ori is more so acting rationally and still trying to help town even though he is being pressured

**4)

He says "for reasons Ditzy stated" which means he is just piggybacking and then says false things about Ori whereas he is explaining what Ditzy is doing. He even calls Ori out on self-preservation iirc where the real person who has been doing this ever since he name fell into the hat of possible lynches, is Ditzy.

Yet Orbo is holding a double-standard for his push on Ditzy-Ori and I am honestly baffled by this.


**5)

Orbo backs up Ditzy's hurried attitude of rushing the hammer but he was paranoid earlier....excuse me but what? I don't like this hammer fishing coming from Ditzy-Orbo.


**6)

Bottom line: I dislike it. Orbo is just trying to shrug off the attention that is being focused on his slot and I do not get why. He seems uneasy when people question his alignment which hasn't really been done and his reaction to said pressure looks grimy.

**7)
I have noticed a connection that I think is important to bring up at the current time.

I think Ditzy and Orbo are the Ice Mafia in this game. Look at the way the two have been reacting to each other during toDay. Orbo has this weird town-read on Ditzy and this back and forth at the same time that seems to look like very weak scum-distancing techniques and I find it really scummy. Orbo has become to look weirder and weirder with his instance that Ditzy is town but not backing it up with anything. They both continue to piggyback each other with each other's suspicions of Ori_Boat, but at the same time, it doesn't do much besides them just going "Lynch Ori already" and end the day phase. They don't even seem to really care about looking into each others slots at all anymore (More Ditzy than Orbo).

**8)

We can even go into the fact that Ditzy also continously followed Zen when he was in the game and piggybacked his reasoning as I have pointed out already. Zen's slot-Ditzy have had a connection this entire game and it is even clearer when shown through who both slots have tried pushing together. Zen's slot has only had these tiny little pushes at Ditzy whereas Ditzy has not even cared to look at that slot while remaining to call every other slot town.

**9)

And Ditzy has begun to become a hypocrite lately. Look at the way he calls me out for buddying Orbo, but lately Ditzy has been buddying Orbo out the wazoo, however, Ditzy also forgot to mention that he had been buddying Zen when he was in the game as well so he is falling into his own scum-tell there.

ToDay, Ditzy needs to go, he flips Ice Mafia, Orbo is next.

Vote: Ditzy
FoS: Orboknown


I'm sorry Orbo that is has to be this way, but I will free you from your scummy self. The towny group will miss you.

**10) This is insanely bad logic. When they stop being scum? So you think all of Bardull/Shotty/J/Rake/Ori are scum? Are you insane? The only one with a town-read on you that has clung to it is Orbo so Orbo is the only one town to you? Your reads are vapid and solely rely on how people view you. This proves my point of you not caring to develop your reads. Expound on them, build cases on people, make the effort to determine alignment.


*11)

The bolded bit is not even the reason for why I want to lynch you. You are strawmanning my argument. Orbo has been squirming, especially when pressed by Rake with a certain quote saying, "man why are you tunneling me so hard?" Rake and Bardull have presented reasonings for why they feel he is scum. Rake has even presented a case against him so there has been evidence against Orbo, have you read that case?

**12)

I specifically remember Rake saying he was holding off until he had actual evidence since he didn't want to make a push for no reason. I don't recall Bardull ever saying anything more than "I'm not sure about it".

Did you yourself not read either of those parts?

**13)

Another random note: My Orbo scum-read is purely relative to my scum-read on Ditzy. If Ditzy were to flip town, I don't think I'd have a scum-read on Orbo. If Ditzy were to flip Fire Mafia, I would also not really have a scum-read on Orbo.

**14)

Seems I didn't see this when I first read your post Rake but yes I do see you are a bit of a surprising character. I don't think I welcomed you to the game but hiya! =D

So far, I feel you are a pretty strong town read of mine. Can I get you to join me on a Ditzy-Lynch since you have a scum-read on him?

**15)

That's fine. It's probably for the best. I don't think either of us are on the same page about each other's arguments anymore.

This little excerpt of the Vote Count can show you who is actually behind the Ori wagon and giving its full steam-ahead/no other choice vibe. Its just Orbo-Ditzy pushing it together while the rest of us watch. Vinyl hopped on as a scape-goat and then the rest of us, however, are looking at Ditzy. Do not be fooled. Join me on the Ditzy wagon and let's lynch some scum!

=D

i am responding to the numbers i put in the posts

1)

Orbo and JD seem to be treating each other the same way you and orbo did before all the questions came and the new orbo slipped out. This to me doesn't mean anything significant yet, now that you are questioning Orbo's alliances i am starting to get a much better read on your slot, got to say if all the stuff that has been posted didn't change your opinion. I would have you as scum through and through. Most likely as orbos scum buddy, now that JD seems to be doing it is starting to effect the read i have going , but we shall see in time.

2) i agree with the hammer fishing thing, him and orbo seem to be quite content to lynch Ori A.S.A.P. The hammer lynch stuff ends here for me though, seems to me with JD's recent post war with J and his early attempts during pressure to find scum that he's attempting to be town and save his slot , at least somewhat, some of his other posts have me wondering, but again, my full JD read is still in progress

3) Have to say i disagree with this slightly on both sides, Ori's posts have been getting better, but i still see FUD in them and as for scum hunting , Ori seems to do it off and on , maybe as needed, something to consider.

JD's lash outs bother me, but they don't say full scum yet, they seem to be more tuned retorts to what he's being asked under the pressure now being re applied by J

4)
Have to say Jd's posts have been self preserving, but he has addressed whats coming at him cogently imo, not spouting FUD or Ate'ing and iirc he hasn't full out stated that lynching him would be the worst thing for town possible *as ori did*

Again agreed, the double standard confuses me, i think orbo and JD were pushing ori because everyone had ori down scum and they saw an opportunity, now that it has moved to JD, i'd like to see what orbo says about all of it.

5)

Exactly, town at first of keeping the hammer away, but switches to hammer when the moment seems right, has scummy all over it for Orbo more than JD imo. If orbo was so lynch paranoid he wouldn't even have voted or voted on himself to preserve town and yet he went for a possible hammer after that, not very town, even if ori scum

6)

Shifting attention is scumy imo, unless it's a shift that actually achieves something , which orbo's did not, he sort of did this with my original read of scum on him , which he requested my reads on , as me " having no evidence of him being scum " he didn't counter anything beyond that or provide any little tidbit quote examples of his pro town attitude, only after i post a wall of text for my read does he address it , even then shrugging it off as "stuff i had on zen's slot and not his posts" which to me doesn't matter, he replaced into zens slot, i thought zens slot was scum ipso facto ergo until orbo managed to convince me away from that his slot = scum.

7)

i agree with the Orbo stuff, he seems to be slipping into a scummier role after his hard pushes on ran as Bardull pointed out and now this one on ori. However i think orbos read on JD town is seperate from that, and he may even be trying to drag JD down with him as scum to save his real scum buddy, seems more likely to me that orbo is last of fire mafia trying to drag down townies to throw suspicion around him as town aligned.

8)

Not to be to unfair here , but if this connection ha been around all game, and people go back to strengthen reads, why has no one picked up on this till after my intial orbo stuff and Bardulls orbo stuff. Seems to me if this connection was so clear cut then it should have been seen. \But i do have to agree that the lack of pushing between them is more obvous now that orbos slot is receiving more scum attention, but i have to ask /@everyone: does what J says here make sense , in terms of the fact that it was their , but only now it comes through, imo if it was there people should have seen it initially and questioned it, but no one did, is this because of an "clear town read " on orbos slot or did you just not see it that way ?


9)

This i agree with a lot , makes me really look at JD's posts again for my read (soon to be full at this rate) but for now i'll call JD's sen buddying as innocent town by JD on someone who everyone had down for town to that point.

10) If JD has me as scum, then i would love to hear why, so therefore @ JD, if am scum so far in your book, why ?

11) Indeed i di provide arguements, although i did also state i wouldn't point fingers at that junture, i am FOS on orbo right now, just due to most of his recent posts sounding more and more anit town imo/

12) Again, indeed i did, as for Bardull he said he wanted orbo dead, thats pretty clear cut.
I held off because things like whats happened today tend to happen when people kick pebbles and wouldn't you know it, i kick the orbo stone , the game gets more active and here we are. Just like to say thanks for all the quotes you guys : )

13) J , this makes me question your reads strength , you say you think theya re ice mafia scum buddys, but here you say your orbo read is dependant on JD. It's either one or the other. You state that either flip and you would still have a town / null read on orbo, but earlier you said they were scum buddies. So i will ask @ J : is orbo mafia / town null or null scum for you now ?

14)

Woot, welcomed to the game ! Any who , i could get in on a lynch, but iirc i hadn't done a full JD read so in fairness i have to before i start throwing votes around.

15)

I personally dislike wagons as they tend to apart when you put pressure on them *cough orbo and to some extent JD*


So have fun with all that whoever wants to read it, to conclude, i can now do this

VOTE: Orboknown


And dat handles dat