newb versus Ike

[Korea4ever]

I know I shouldn't be getting smashed as much as I am, but I do. My friend has great timing, (not to mention I'm just not that good), and I'd like to know what I should change.

If it helps, here is how our matches often go, but if you somehow know exactly what my problem is, by all means, skip this paragraph. I have a lot of bad habits, and I don't, or can't use many techniques yet. To approach, I might SH towards, waiting for an opportunity to use dancing blade or an aerial. I roll a lot, and we sometimes end up going for a smash and then we jsut keep roling behind each other trying to land a hit. I've mostly solved this with dsmash. One of the biggest problems I have is when I'm hit up high with Ike's utilt, but can't DI far enough to get out of his usmash. I usually counter by default, but sometimes airdodge. At this point, he's already anticipated that and can release the attack at any point, and often hits me. Lastly ike's range is pretty long, so another problem to avoid there.

Overall, I opt for the faster ground moves, use aerials depending on direction except dair, which I try to avoid because of ending lag, and try to KO with dolphin slash. Dancing blade is used at every opportunity, and shield breaker is used for recovery and thrown in here and there. Throws are sometimes used to set up for a couple aerials or a smash.

To be concise, I'd like to know which attacks not to use, or when to use them, what to do when I'm coming from above, and some general advice on recovery.

On the other hand, tips on how to kill Ike faster would be appreciated as well. Without Critical Hit. Checking back tomorrow.

 

[ixdnL]

With my limited knowledge of Marth I say don't use shield breaker for recovery. Others can help with much more depth.

 

[xandeR-]

Ike should be a cake walk for any Marth player.

Admittedly, I struggled against my friend's at first but, after going home and playing a mid level Ike for a bunch of matches, the match up became trivial to me.

EVERY attack that Ike does is punishable and you can very easily do so.

Regarding moves to use, the down part of dancing blade is great against Ike since he's so heavy. Marth also has a chain throw on Ike at low percents with his fthrow. Don't counter so much, air dodge will serve you better unless you KNOW he's going to attack at that time.

Finally, my favorite thing to do to Ikes is when they're trying to recover from below the stage with Aether, stand on the edge of the stage and counter when he throws the blade up. He'll leap up into your slash and go flying out horizontal to the stage. Then, the obvious move for him is to Quick Draw to the ledge.

Hug the edge. Dead Ike.

I kill Ikes like this regularly at like 30%.

 

[jinofcoolnes]

Dancing blade>most Ikes attacks.

 

[Kayn]

With my limited knowledge of Marth I say don't use shield breaker for recovery. Others can help with much more depth.

woah! Have you seen the horizontal distance covered by a charged sheild breaker? It's good. Use it.

Anyway, you can try to bait an attack and then punish the lag. You can do this by running in and sheilding, spot dodging, running back, even countering. However it is situational. Smart Ikes won't fall for it. But in general, once you see he's commiting to an attack get out of range, dash back in while he's recovering, and dancing blade him.

 

[feardragon64]

One of the biggest reason ike is so easy is because he's so **** easy to gimp.

Get him off a little far off edge and gimp him. Don't worry TOO much about building damage(still do it but you don't need to get him that high for the kill).

And as xander said, don't use counter too often. If he's blatantly going to fsmash you or something, go ahead and use it to punish him for being obvious. Otherwise, airdodge after you get juggled. Try not to shieldbreaker too much...just for shield pressure. Honestly, while you should avoid being a melee marth, tipped fair's are great in this battle to my experience for getting him off the edge. After that, tipper bair him when he's coming back on and edgehog.

And remember, if you don't have time to edgehog his up+b, just jump into it and counter, then you should have time to edgehog. =]

P.S. don't depend on dolphin slash too much for a k.o. move. Like I said, ike kills are by gimps. Tippered fsmash also work wonders for getting him off the stage.

Hope that helps...and was actually correct.

 

[BVA]

Indeed Ike is very easy to gimp and edge guard.

Note that all of Ike's attack are slow and can be punished accordingly.

You just have to use attacks that don't cause lag huge lag time. i.e : Fair bar , Dancing blade.

All you have to do is analyze what Ike is going to do as you approach him and anticipate from there. Watch his moves first hence speed is not in his favor.

Also, you can always approach with a dash shield and guard the attack and combo from there.

Most important : Analyze what Ike is going to do first and punish accordingly.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

SHfairing works, and Ike's attacks are pretty slow as a whole. The counter on Aether works wonders. Use it a lot. If its obvious that he is going to fsmash, the walk towards him and Counter, but if not, don't use it that much, dodging and shielding works better.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Just try a match running away from him, when he decides to charge a smash or even do a smash, walk right out of range and take a free SH Fair, he will get frustrated as long as u keep running. Resulting in more laggy attacks and being overly aggressive, then you just keep spacing and letting him mess up and taking your hits.

 

[Korea4ever]

I'll try all those next time I get to play against him, and thanks for your help!

 

[Fatalzyntax]

He gives you 5 years to use Counter, knowing how much Ike can deliver knockback...
Super cool!
If he gets too close, Dancing blade or Dolphin smash
To KO out of a dolphin smash doesn't seem to be too bright
Try F-smash, you just need to draw him in and time it right
and Gimp
Watch out for his standard A combo

 

[Falconv1.0]

Honestly, just avoid his attacks and respond with quick ones. Ike is slow as hell, and easily punished by the likes of people like Marth.

Dancing blade is beautiful, F Smash is quick enough to punish him, Marth's aerials pwn, but I dont think they out prioritize Ike's, so be wary of that.


And stop. Rolling. Seriously, just don't do it unless there is some sort of extreme danger facing you that you dont wanna take chances with. And for the love of god dont roll with him and into him. That's just plain ********. In fact, since he's apparently rolling with you, he's either being a douche because he knows you cant seem to avoid the tempation, or he sucks just as bad as you.

 

[Avsfreak18]

work on your timing, Ikes smash attacks can be seen from a mile away and a well time counter will get your Ike off its game

 

[feardragon64]

Watch out for his standard A combo

Can't you DI out of the final hit?

 

[3xSwords]

woah! Have you seen the horizontal distance covered by a charged sheild breaker? It's good. Use it.

Anyway, you can try to bait an attack and then punish the lag. You can do this by running in and sheilding, spot dodging, running back, even countering. However it is situational. Smart Ikes won't fall for it. But in general, once you see he's commiting to an attack get out of range, dash back in while he's recovering, and dancing blade him.

Shield breaker sux as a recovery, sorry to tell you . You are vulnerable for a long time while charging and after you release. Even if you do it from the very corners of the blast zone after you release it. You are just meat gliding across the air due to Marth's post lag.

The only reason why you might recover safely is b/c the opponent is not willing to risk a fully charged SB in their face. Also there is a chance of scrwing yourself by sliding under the stage. People gave up on SB recovery a while ago. Your better off just trying to DI towards the stage and getting on with your second jump and upB