NEW YOSHI TECHNOLOGY

[TomBoComBo]

Hello fellow smashers/Yoshi mains. My name Is Tombocombo, and I have recently discovered a new secret technique that only Yoshi can do. I'm on the fence on whether it's a true bug or if it was purposefully programmed into the game. But the technique is pivotal to Yoshi's kit and gives him an extra option.

The Technique in Question? I humbly call it: the Grab-Parry.
Basically, in the beginning frames of Yoshi's shield (the first 3 frames to be exact) give Yoshi the ability to ignore grabs. Yes, you heard me right, IGNORE GRABS. The timing is tricky, and you need to have a very good read/punish game, but if you time it within those 3 frames, you will ignore any and all grabs (some tether grabs have more active frames than the parry, depending on where Yoshi is in the hitbox, so he can still be grabbed in those situations).

I have captured footage of the tech, along with other fun things about Yoshi in a combo video I have recently uploaded.
Please Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVcSy-OoBMA&feature=youtu.be

To the PMBR:
Do NOT nerf this PLEASE. It only gives Yoshi a new option, It is NOT game breaking, just another thing that makes Yoshi more Viable.

 

[Nikes]

Awesome find! :D Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[TomBoComBo]

It's more fun to use it when your opponent doesn't know about it. When you pull it off, a gigantic question mark appears over their head, it's Hysterical.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Well well well. What you found is the current form of the somewhat incomplete parry.

PM's current parry:
Does not eat attacks(), long duration attacks and projectiles will hit the parry, then hit Yoshi or his shield
Will still have Yoshi suffers hitlag when struck in parry
Makes Yoshi is still invulnerable to grabs
Enables Yoshi to still PS reflect

This should be fixed (as in fixing the parry so it works like Melee)in the next release.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I honestly think that Yoshi doesn't really need the Egg Parry since he can jump out of sheild (since that was the main advantage of the melee egg parry). If the grab parry could stay over completing the egg parry, I'd be fine with that. Yoshi has as many options out of shield as everyone does now. ( doublejump-cancel nair out of shield is sublime)

 

[tauKhan]

This is nothing new; yoshi's parry is invincible to grabs in melee too.

 

[TomBoComBo]

This is nothing new; yoshi's parry is intangible to grabs in melee too.

Not true, Egg parrying in Melee is a 2-4 frame instance where Yoshi's shield was out, but you could jump cancel it. It was considered a shield. It may reduce yoshi's hitbox at first, but it did not make yoshi intangible to anything, especially not grabs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQe3Xkb4u0 AMSA shows it here with the hitboxes on the shield.

 

[tauKhan]

My bad, it is not intangible but it's instead invincible to attacks and grabs, which is even better, since the attacker gets hitlag.

 

[TensenROB]

This is awesome! I tried it out in Dolphin using Ike's standing grab which has a hitbox on frames 7-8, and I input Yoshi's shield 1 frame after inputting Ike's grab. The grab missed on frame 7 (frame 6 of Yoshi's shield) and hit on frame 8, so the invulnerability to grabs goes as far as frame 6.

This is unrelated but I can't seem to jump out of frames 1-6 of a light press shield. It has to be a full press shield or after you change to a full press shield from light press.

 

[TomBoComBo]

My bad, it is not intangible but it's instead invincible to attacks and grabs, which is even better, since the attacker gets hitlag.

Not to grabs, but yes, everything else

 

[TomBoComBo]

This is awesome! I tried it out in Dolphin using Ike's standing grab which has a hitbox on frames 7-8, and I input Yoshi's shield 1 frame after inputting Ike's grab. The grab missed on frame 7 (frame 6 of Yoshi's shield) and hit on frame 8, so the invulnerability to grabs goes as far as frame 6.

This is unrelated but I can't seem to jump out of frames 1-6 of a light press shield. It has to be a full press shield or after you change to a full press shield from light press.

What exactly are you trying to do? youre saying it has 6 frames?

 

[TensenROB]

What exactly are you trying to do? youre saying it has 6 frames?

Yeah, he has invulnerability to grabs from frames 1-6.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I thought it was only 3... Nice. I hope the PM team Leave it be

 

[Sashimi]

Looks like you put a lot of work into that video, which is a little unfortunate considering that this has been known for years in Melee.

The frame window is 6 frames (in both games), and you can jump whenever (in Melee it was 2-6). Yes, you could parry grabs in Melee, though your opponent would not have any hitlag.

Contrary to what some people might say, being able to jump out of shield does not make parrying obsolete. When you parry attacks, you receive no hitlag, but your opponent does. This gives you a very good frame advantage, to the point where you can often punish aerials on-parry before your opponent even touches the ground. Also, fixing the "egg parry" as you call it doesn't remove "grab parrying." They're cause by the exact same thing (full invincibility during Yoshi's pre-shielding animation), and there's no need to choose one over the other.

I've been told that the PMBR intends to fix the parry issues, so it will be like Melee's parry.

PS: I like some of those combos, especially the ones involving rising DJ aerials. Neat stuff!

 

[Deviljho]

I've seen that little bug. Sometimes I'll be fighting and I'll parry a grab. However, these are just lucky.

I need this parry stuff. One more thing to add to the lab.

Great video dude!

 

[TomBoComBo]

I've seen that little bug. Sometimes I'll be fighting and I'll parry a grab. However, these are just lucky.

I need this parry stuff. One more thing to add to the lab.

Great video dude!

Thank you, it took forever to edit

 

[TomBoComBo]

Looks like you put a lot of work into that video, which is a little unfortunate considering that this has been known for years in Melee.

The frame window is 6 frames (in both games), and you can jump whenever (in Melee it was 2-6). Yes, you could parry grabs in Melee, though your opponent would not have any hitlag.

Contrary to what some people might say, being able to jump out of shield does not make parrying obsolete. When you parry attacks, you receive no hitlag, but your opponent does. This gives you a very good frame advantage, to the point where you can often punish aerials on-parry before your opponent even touches the ground. Also, fixing the "egg parry" as you call it doesn't remove "grab parrying." They're cause by the exact same thing (full invincibility during Yoshi's pre-shielding animation), and there's no need to choose one over the other.

I've been told that the PMBR intends to fix the parry issues, so it will be like Melee's parry.

PS: I like some of those combos, especially the ones involving rising DJ aerials. Neat stuff!

2 things, There're more videos coming in the near future, and how come I haven't found any footage of it anywhere? I'm somewhat curious as to why

 

[Bamboo]

Even though I already knew these things for PM since yoshi is GAHTLIKE. I also wanna know where the melee videos are of this?

and nice video dude @ TomBoComBo

 

[Sashimi]

2 things, There're more videos coming in the near future, and how come I haven't found any footage of it anywhere? I'm somewhat curious as to why

If you're asking why there's no footage of grabs being parried in melee, it's because there are few Yoshi players who can parry, and few of those players bother to parry grabs. It's not easy to do since you have to expect the grab, and there are easier ways to avoid getting grabbed.

It's definitely a thing, though. I parry grabs in Melee all the time.

 

[TomBoComBo]

If you're asking why there's no footage of grabs being parried in melee, it's because there are few Yoshi players who can parry, and few of those players bother to parry grabs. It's not easy to do since you have to expect the grab, and there are easier ways to avoid getting grabbed.

It's definitely a thing, though. I parry grabs in Melee all the time.

I see. Someone still needs to make a video though. My smash game is heavy reads, spacing and punish game, so the parry in PM is a real nice tool for me. It's definitely worth it to parry because it screws over tech chases and it plays pretty sinister flow-breaking mind games. It's simply (for me) a great way to end any momentum my opponent may have.

 

[Deviljho]

I see. Someone still needs to make a video though. My smash game is heavy reads, spacing and punish game, so the parry in PM is a real nice tool for me. It's definitely worth it to parry because it screws over tech chases and it plays pretty sinister flow-breaking mind games. It's simply (for me) a great way to end any momentum my opponent may have.

My Yoshi is aggro punish and combo. Keep momentum while I can. But parry can help when I'm (or any other yoshi like me) is in dire straits. Though i probably could learn some stuff from your videos. I'll have to get a vid up of my own... if i had the way to do it. keep up the good stuff!

 

[TomBoComBo]

My Yoshi is aggro punish and combo. Keep momentum while I can. But parry can help when I'm (or any other yoshi like me) is in dire straits. Though i probably could learn some stuff from your videos. I'll have to get a vid up of my own... if i had the way to do it. keep up the good stuff!

Yeah, Yoshi plays a trade game, you tanky what you can, then give it back x10. The parry helps a ton with mind games. I play on laggy TV's too often so I don't get it off as much as I'd like, but on CRT's I can parry every grab that I see coming, Tis beautiful.
And Thanks, I only use my laptop and a $120 capturecard. The stuff in the video is around a month and a half old, and I've improved greatly since then. I'll be putting more videos up when I have good material.

 

[TomBoComBo]

My Yoshi is aggro punish and combo. Keep momentum while I can. But parry can help when I'm (or any other yoshi like me) is in dire straits. Though i probably could learn some stuff from your videos. I'll have to get a vid up of my own... if i had the way to do it. keep up the good stuff!

Eggroll is hands down the most useful move in Yoshi's kit. Use it everywhere all the time.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Don't get too reckless with that move. The move starts in the air, and if you get hit out of that startup, you won't have a recovery.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Don't get too reckless with that move. The move starts in the air, and if you get hit out of that startup, you won't have a recovery.

I know this well. I use it for mindgames mostly. like if you start in the air above an enemy, you'll make them think you're drifting over them and then you hold back, making you drop straight instead of roll to the side. You either get 2 free hits to lead into a combo or you apply shield pressure and get a free grab

 

[V3ctorMan]

I'm officially on the P.M wagon Yoshi players. I'll have tons to teach you guys,. and hey I can learn too I look forward to the challenge..

@OP - awesome video man, Always glad to see new Yoshi faces, but yes as stated above, nothing is new here.. Many of the P.M. changes that usually happen, I'll let you guys know/beaware, since I hear/suggest most of the changes that happen, (though that's not to say I choose everything) More accurately just give feedback. Regardless, I always like seeing new Yoshi players.

As most of you know aMSa, plays Lucario, so it will be my job to help lure him back (if possible) but he'll come back as it is, if they fix the parrying problem, and of course for all the Yoshi players..

I do finally have P.M. (because I originally lost SD) but I'm joining the bandwagon, let's push this character! <3 yall

 

[Kaysick]

I'm officially on the P.M wagon Yoshi players. I'll have tons to teach you guys,. and hey I can learn too I look forward to the challenge..

@OP - awesome video man, Always glad to see new Yoshi faces, but yes as stated above, nothing is new here.. Many of the P.M. changes that usually happen, I'll let you guys know/beaware, since I hear/suggest most of the changes that happen, (though that's not to say I choose everything) More accurately just give feedback. Regardless, I always like seeing new Yoshi players.

As most of you know aMSa, plays Lucario, so it will be my job to help lure him back (if possible) but he'll come back as it is, if they fix the parrying problem, and of course for all the Yoshi players..

I do finally have P.M. (because I originally lost SD) but I'm joining the bandwagon, let's push this character! <3 yall

Good to see you playing PM as well

 

[TomBoComBo]

I'm officially on the P.M wagon Yoshi players. I'll have tons to teach you guys,. and hey I can learn too I look forward to the challenge..

@OP - awesome video man, Always glad to see new Yoshi faces, but yes as stated above, nothing is new here.. Many of the P.M. changes that usually happen, I'll let you guys know/beaware, since I hear/suggest most of the changes that happen, (though that's not to say I choose everything) More accurately just give feedback. Regardless, I always like seeing new Yoshi players.

As most of you know aMSa, plays Lucario, so it will be my job to help lure him back (if possible) but he'll come back as it is, if they fix the parrying problem, and of course for all the Yoshi players..

I do finally have P.M. (because I originally lost SD) but I'm joining the bandwagon, let's push this character! <3 yall

Bro. I'm so flattered. I'm a big fan of your Melee Yoshi, I wish I was fast enough to play him in Melee. I'm honestly so Hyped that you posted on my thread (and complemented my scrub tier vid). We all have been waiting for a big name to play Yoshi and boost his place on the tier list. Don't take it all on your shoulders though, We want to learn from you, but learn from what we've figured out too! (my grab parry is super on point now. very valuable to my game)
SO MUCH HYPE

 

[waifumagnet]

I play with TomBo's Yoshi on a regular basis and I can attest to the fact that the grab parry is an incredibly useful option for PM Yoshi mains.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

On the subject of new yoshi tech, this is interesting

So if your peach and Yoshi in PM if you press down on the c stick and up on the control stick(tap jump on) at the exact same frame you go into a double jump, but since they dip when they double jump they stay on the ground and there is little to no lag to this. Your shield takes from 14 to 18 frames to be able to act out of with non OOS actions, so you can cancel those frames by using this technique and do tilts, smashes and specials faster out of it. Also if you angle the control stick you do a slide somewhat similar to a wavedash so you can slide when canceling the shield. This works faster than wavedash out of shield since you immediately go into a standing position. And since its a double jump Yoshi has 1 frame of super armor which may be useful.

 

[TensenROB]

On the subject of new yoshi tech, this is interesting

Pressing jump and any other move on the same frame will have the other move act and not the jump. I haven't been able to replicate this in TAS, so I think he's saying to C-stick down on the frame after analog stick up. It sounds like he's talking about a double jump land which has no landing lag at all and lets you shield immediately. If he's doing a pseudo-DJL using c-stick down then the d-air autocancels resulting in Yoshi's regular 4 frames of landing lag. He's right about being able to slide in the DJL which is done by doing a turnaround DJ instead of a normal DJ for the DJL.

DJL in general has a 2 frame window: the DJ has to come out in frames 1 or 2 after jumpsquat. For a perfect DJL (frame 1 of hop), you can act the frame after the DJ. For an imperfect DJL (frame 2 of hop), you can only act 3 frames after the DJ because you're in hop for 1 frame, and in the DJ for 3 frames.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

He's actually talking about it as more of an Oos option. I'm sure Yoshi could DJL into shield in Melee, but now that he's able to jump out of his shield, he can do it out of shield. The animation for this maneuver is less than shield drop frames, so that's pretty neat.

 

[TensenROB]

He's actually talking about it as more of an Oos option. I'm sure Yoshi could DJL into shield in Melee, but now that he's able to jump out of his shield, he can do it out of shield. The animation for this maneuver is less than shield drop frames, so that's pretty neat.

Oh okay, thanks. PM Yoshi can jump OOS but it's not perfect. He can't jump out of the first 6 frames of a light press shield but can jump out as soon as it's converted to a hard press shield. Melee has the same behaviour in the parry frames but I don't think it's intentional in PM.

edit: I misunderstood. This is the thread where Turtle posted the tech. It's done by holding tap jump (must continue holding it) and doing c-stick down 1-5 frames after. It has some strange behaviour that seems to buffer a DJ on frame 1 of a hop, and it always makes Yoshi do a perfect DJL. To use it as an OOS option you have to release the shield before Yoshi can act out of the DJL or else he'll shield or spot dodge if you still have c-stick down.

 

[TheTurtle]

Oh okay, thanks. PM Yoshi can jump OOS but it's not perfect. He can't jump out of the first 6 frames of a light press shield but can jump out as soon as it's converted to a hard press shield. Melee has the same behaviour in the parry frames but I don't think it's intentional in PM.

edit: I misunderstood. This is the thread where Turtle posted the tech. It's done by holding tap jump (must continue holding it) and doing c-stick down 1-5 frames after. It has some strange behaviour that seems to buffer a DJ on frame 1 of a hop, and it always makes Yoshi do a perfect DJL. To use it as an OOS option you have to release the shield before Yoshi can act out of the DJL or else he'll shield or spot dodge if you still have c-stick down.

I think it does this because c stick down counts as Down+A and since your holding up on the cstick it redoes the up input

 

[TensenROB]

I think it does this because c stick down counts as Down+A and since your holding up on the cstick it redoes the up input

If that's the case then it should only work for a specific frame, like the frame after releasing c-stick down it would register tap jump again which would mean you had to c-stick down on frame 5 of the jumpsquat. This is really cool! It's a much better frame window than normal DJL.

 

[V3ctorMan]

it's DJLanding actually, VERY EFFECTIVE.. actually, it's alongside the large writeup I have planned for tomorrow if I can finish it in time. I think you guys would enjoy reading what I put ^^ <3

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yoshis "ledgejanked" (do the move when directly at the edge of a platform/the stage and then c-stick as if you would do an aerial towards it, you will ledgecancel without dropping, and be in this weird "stand-directly-by-the-edge-animation" that can be directly interrupted by anything) aerials, especially up-air, are pretty solid.

 

[internetmovieguy]

This should be fixed (as in fixing the parry so it works like Melee)in the next release.

Nah, parrying grabs sounds legit, I'm sure melee would like it.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yeah does neither sound op (because it is just the powershield nor doesn't it fit because Yoshi is supposed to have the best shield in PM. I think it adds depth to the game (of course just in very detailed scales but every bit counts) and is, even if it is in the game by accident, creative game design which is always freshing the game up

 

[Just'Serious]

I main Yoshi in Project M and witnessed this a few days ago during a Yoshi ditto match in a tournament when i tried to grab, and we were both confused. Now i know and i knew I wasn't bugging out for a reasoin