New way to organize tournies (maybe for brawl?)

[Druggedfox]

Any argument i have seen about people's skill level has been heated and debateable. People say, dont talk about your skill until you go to tournies. People's response to that is that the way we organize tournaments does not always prove skill. For example, if i was at some huge southern tourney, and i probably place around the top 8 (im saying IF, not i would) but i have to fight against Nite's falco first round. I lose and i say "w/e i had a bad match-up but maybe the losers bracket will be easier" So i go find out what my next match is and i found out that chad (pika chad) had just lost KeedSpeedN and i had chad next round. I lose. So i go from being a player who could have placed in the top 8 to a player who has been eliminated as quickly as possible. Even though pools help to solve this problem to some extent, you could get a bad pool, and at tournies with a smaller turnout there arent any pools anyway. So my suggestion is a round-robin style tournament. Though these tournaments will no doubt be longer, they will better prove your skill, and everyone will get more matches. For those of you who dont know what a round-robin tournament is, let me explain. Round-robin tournaments are set up so that every single player will play every single OTHER player at least once. If you win a match you get 1 point. If you lose a match you get 0 points. (In games such as chess where there are ties, a tie is 1/2 a point, but that doesnt apply here) In a traditional round-robin tournament, whoever had the most points would win the tournament. To do this would ruin the traditional bracket, and would be less fun. So what i propose is either go by the swiss method of round-robin: If there are 8 players, you make a bracket split where the top 4 play the bottom 4. #1 plays #5 player, #2 player plays #6 player etc. Btw the name "swiss tournament is from here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_system_tournament
The second choice, and the choice i like more, would be to have the round-robin tournament. Then lets say there are 32 people there, take the top 8 players and have a little double elimination thing with them. Or maybe even only take the top 4 so that you can get a 1st 2nd and 3rd, though i think more players for the bracket might be better, its not really up to me, I'm just bringing this idea to every1's attention. And you could still have a "top ten" power rankings list because you can base other rankings off the points you got in the round-robin section of the tournament if some players didnt make it out of the brackets. So heres an idea and i would like to know what everyone thinks of it.

*Edit* And to get the top 10 placings it might be easier to just have a bracket with maybe a set 1/4 of the players who entered. So if you had a tourney with like 40 players, a "top ten" would be easy to get, but if you had a small turnout like 20, you would have 4 or 5 players for the bracket. Thanks for replies =)

 

[Gerbil]

Well here's the thing as you have pointed out. Round Robin takes time. Seeing as how most tournaments already take up all day (look at the G4S series, it's large and long enough as it is with only 1 round of pools, double elim).

Another thing that counters your point. There is no point to trying to make a good "rank" placement, unless you intend to win money, or you seriously care about power rankings. We can't use the arguement of "being elimned early" because quite frankly, 99% of the time, if you really were good enough to finish top 3 (the usual money winning placements) you wouldn't be eliminated in the first place.

I'd post more, but I'm trying to get settled from being home after school >.>

 

[Druggedfox]

Thanks for posting, im saying that mostly because i want people to point out flaws in it, and want to know if they think it is a good idea. Ignoring rankings then, if we get organized and its not one of the biggest tournies to ever hit GA O.o then maybe we can pull off a round robin. Another thing is, my original example was with a top 8 player i think. If i didnt put top 8, then my mistake. Round-robin is just basically extended pools i guess, and it would help to see more match-ups. Maybe theres a player who cant beat falcos, and he gets a falco, but he never plays in his best match-up: peach. Im just giving a random example. In a round-robin tournament, imo it shows your strengths and weaknesses more. Thanks for the input, and im just trying to figure out a solution. If we ignore the rankings thing (I'll stop actually caring about a top ten power rankings) then the only problem is the time. Could we possibly actually make it so that during tourney time, only tourney matches could be played, no friendlies. If that happened and every tv went to tourney matches then it MIGHT be possible. Also, this is a suggestion for mainly singles not doubles. If any1 who actually likes the idea of a round-robin wants to get round-robin going, then please post and with solutions that people will no doubt bring up. Thanks for any help with problems with the idea, solutions, or compliments.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

Any argument i have seen about people's skill level has been heated and debateable. People say, dont talk about your skill until you go to tournies. People's response to that is that the way we organize tournaments does not always prove skill. For example, if i was at some huge southern tourney, and i probably place around the top 8 (im saying IF, not i would) but i have to fight against Nite's falco first round. I lose and i say "w/e i had a bad match-up but maybe the losers bracket will be easier" So i go find out what my next match is and i found out that chad (pika chad) had just lost KeedSpeedN and i had chad next round. I lose. So i go from being a player who could have placed in the top 8 to a player who has been eliminated as quickly as possible. Even though pools help to solve this problem to some extent, you could get a bad pool, and at tournies with a smaller turnout there arent any pools anyway. So my suggestion is a round-robin style tournament. Though these tournaments will no doubt be longer, they will better prove your skill, and everyone will get more matches. For those of you who dont know what a round-robin tournament is, let me explain. Round-robin tournaments are set up so that every single player will play every single OTHER player at least once. If you win a match you get 1 point. If you lose a match you get 0 points. (In games such as chess where there are ties, a tie is 1/2 a point, but that doesnt apply here) In a traditional round-robin tournament, whoever had the most points would win the tournament. To do this would ruin the traditional bracket, and would be less fun. So what i propose is either go by the swiss method of round-robin: If there are 8 players, you make a bracket split where the top 4 play the bottom 4. #1 plays #5 player, #2 player plays #6 player etc. Btw the name "swiss tournament is from here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_system_tournament
The second choice, and the choice i like more, would be to have the round-robin tournament. Then lets say there are 32 people there, take the top 8 players and have a little double elimination thing with them. Or maybe even only take the top 4 so that you can get a 1st 2nd and 3rd, though i think more players for the bracket might be better, its not really up to me, I'm just bringing this idea to every1's attention. And you could still have a "top ten" power rankings list because you can base other rankings off the points you got in the round-robin section of the tournament if some players didnt make it out of the brackets. So heres an idea and i would like to know what everyone thinks of it.

*Edit* And to get the top 10 placings it might be easier to just have a bracket with maybe a set 1/4 of the players who entered. So if you had a tourney with like 40 players, a "top ten" would be easy to get, but if you had a small turnout like 20, you would have 4 or 5 players for the bracket. Thanks for replies =)

i play Magic The Gathering CCG(colectable card game) and they use this format..

i thought about it at once and said it would be pretty cool to do.

but nobody knows what it is =/

 

[eastheaven]

Go to like three tournaments (problem solved)

 

[Anomic_Punk]

Its true you can kinda be "bracket gimped" or matchup gimped, but in the end, there is but one simple solution:

NO JOHNS.

^_^

 

[Druggedfox]

Just a thought. When posting could u be more like cash money, saying "yes its a good idea because..." or "i dont like the idea because...". That way i can improve on the strong points of the idea, while fixing its problems, and maybe when im done getting all the ideas, we could have solved the main problems with a round-robin tourney idea. And Full Metal, you're right no johns. So ignore the bracket gimped thing, but you get more match-ups, and one bad match doesnt **** up the tourney lol. Cant believe i just made a john... *kills self*

 

[Gerbil]

Full Metal's post is exactly what is needed in here though. The more "match-ups" or whatever for tourny rounds, result in less time for friendlies, MMs, crews, etc etc. The current format we have now works best because it has been revised through the years. To put it simply: It is a wasted effort to try with this thread man, simply because not only would 99% of the boards probably stick to the usual format they are familiar with, but you also have Brawl coming out within a short time frame, and the way Brawl tournaments are run could be completely different in format from Melee. So I say, let's just have this thread die for now, and maybe at another point when there are larger issues with tournament management should we revive it.

 

[mathos]

Magic's Swiss Format is only slighty similar to what DruggedFox is talking about. Magic games can often run over their time limit.

The problem with Swiss format is the amount of time it takes. It roughly takes the same amount of time as a double elimination bracket as you have to have the same amount of rounds. But the biggest problem is the amount of administrative downtime. The tournament staff (or in some cases host) have to wait until everyone in the round has finished and then randomize according to the point scores.

And people always complain if there is no Finals set. So you'd have to have just as many rounds as a double elimination to get a top two who could have potentially already played each other.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

mathos u play magic!? =O

 

[Druggedfox]

LOL Mathos plays magic, random thought. *Lets thread die* Hey gerbil im just trying to get ahead of the game.

/dies

 

[mathos]

I used to, not real competitive though. JoeBushman111 plays competitively with Power 9.

 

[GA Peach]

Magic's Swiss Format is only slighty similar to what DruggedFox is talking about. Magic games can often run over their time limit.

The problem with Swiss format is the amount of time it takes. It roughly takes the same amount of time as a double elimination bracket as you have to have the same amount of rounds. But the biggest problem is the amount of administrative downtime. The tournament staff (or in some cases host) have to wait until everyone in the round has finished and then randomize according to the point scores.

And people always complain if there is no Finals set. So you'd have to have just as many rounds as a double elimination to get a top two who could have potentially already played each other.

agreed. swiss would be a cool format for smash, and we did some about a year ago in GA. Wes ran some at his house, but time was a giant issue, as stated here by Mathos and everyone else that has already posted in this thread and those that will in the future.

 

[Druggedfox]

I figured that b4 posting the thread. If any1 can come up with an efficient way to record who wins each match then time would not be as much of a problem. I dont know... have a table with every1's matches listed (host at table) and after your match go to him and tell him how it went. (TV at the table for the hosts matches) And some1 said that because brawl is different we may have a completely different tourney setup...any ideas as to what they are?

 

[GAwes]

"I don't think this is a good idea because. . ." it would take forever, teams seed into pools seed into (secondary pools if necessary ) into brackets, its not always fair, but no one would willingly run a tournament that difficult to manage lol.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

I used to, not real competitive though. JoeBushman111 plays competitively with Power 9.

>_>

power nine?

broken much?

 

[OTRU...]

yo druggedfox how drugged are you?

 

[Druggedfox]

LOL!!! Blame dope for getting my name O.o And is the idea that bad to ask that question??? Some people said it was good except for time!!! And what happened to this thread dying?