the great jonzales
Smash Cadet
Dont want to seem like ... 'oh! i found i new AT im the best! worship me!' but...
has ne1 else noticed that when you start a jump from the ledge (press y when ure on the ledge) u can attack IMMEDIATLEY after u let go of the edge?
i've discovered a few properties with this.
No.1 u can cancel all movement of the jump immediate;ly with a move that overides your current momentum I.E. metaknights down b, TL's dair, fox's shine etc.
If this hasnt been disvoverd or named yet ill refer to this form of use as Ledge jump cancelling
No.2 u get momentum forward and up when doing attacks similair to that of a DJC in melee and also you keep your 2nd jump! (very useful in edgeguarding)
No.3 u have momentum forward with attacks that ONLY stop your vertical movement. I.E Jigg's bownB, this combined with the forward momentum gives a larger hitbox for this (not too impressive but combined with point 4...)
No.4 it is faster than most other options of getting back from the ledge, i.e. drop down jump arieal/special e.g. compare: drop jump down B, stand down B, or Y downB (must hit B VERY quickly after pressing Y).
now please keep these in mind for the rest of the post.
this also opens options for certain mindgames as it looks as if your returning to stage(thus you can attack returning players with the element of surprise) and some characters projectiles work this way also(ill explain later) also as another method of edge guarding... for example doing this with samus bair, u can get 3 safely in and grab the ledge again, since all characters jumps from the ledge are high, and the DJC effect + floatier characters in general you can attack in a lot of space regarding players coming back on stage.
now who is it useful for? ive used this with all of the characters but not in a real match as of yet, i wanted to get some opionions form everyone else before i do (as im in the UK not many smashers near me
) newa thats where you come in, try this out comment on the thrread wether it works or not and i've made a list of attacks it works for cause i have that kinda spare time and remeber this is a test as to wether it works or not!
Mario. cape (possibly for edge guard fox/falco's forward b?) upB (leaves u vulnerable)
D.K Forward special, on approach (also as a meteor edgeguard with Bsticking) bair for EG
Link didn't find anything useful
SAMUS: lots of potential here! using bombs, as the bombs have a very low knockback and some stun combined with samus' aerial mobility, you can Ledge Jump Cancel a bomb this opens up a few doors
No.1 grab the ledge again and attack (the bomb position will stop player approaching you.
No. 2 DI, off stage double jump and attack the bomb stops approaching players again but also can be used to link combos possibly?
no. 3 DI offstage and double jump then charge beam! (fully charged) if the bomb hits you should have a free K.O. if not people might be surprised by your movements and caught off guard?
also LJC bairs for 'stage guard'
Kirby. useful here for Bairs again. but also with the aerial hammer, LJC a forward B on and offstage seems very quick and useful with surprising range for this attack (see property No.3) also can be done away from stage, for edgeguard against vertically recovering players
Fox . LJC the shine seems useful. his forward seems useful only with the Bstick tho! as w/o, you str=art the attack on stage an an easily attackable position
Pika Forwarb B possibly, thunder possibly
Marth. Forward special is VERY versatile here can be used for approach to stage can be used as edgeguard (with diff directions used ) his down b is very useful here! allows you to come back onstage COUNTERING! punishable if missed but adds to mind games possibly? up B can be used to get onstage and as a gd kill move from here O.o also double as a stage guard.
all of his aerials can bes used very well here for all situations. experiment for urselves as they all work
G&W his down b can be done very quickly and surprsingly out of this, and can be done so quick (with b stick only) u pull the bucket on the stage. LJC bair is gd for edeguarding, and LJCing his dair doesnt suicide you!
Luigi, you can up special very quickly here
Diddy, cudnt be bothered lol, he's gd enough neway
Pit. only found his down b can be LJC to allow safe from projectiles appraoch onto stage
MK, all of his special can be used here to get back onto stage. his down B covers insane distance here, reaching the edge of the diamond in the middle of FD, u can attack out of this anywhere between the edge of stage to about a third into the stage tornado is really useful as well as getting pple caught in them is become harder. all of his aerials are insane from here especially at coming back on stage, his fair and nair still have a few invicinilty frames AS THEY START!
Falco, only his dair seemd to work.
Pk trainer... err, 3 diff chars, how bout NO!
Ike counter like marth's also his bair for edeguarding.
Snake, i only found it useful for his down B in certain situations, since its a surprising action, u might get away with planting his down b mines on ppl
god im only halfway.........
Peach i found nothing
Yoshi, yep still bottom tier
Ganondorf, maybe his downspecial?
IC, neutral B for appraoch and forward B also
DDD dair's ok for an approach
wolf, nothing, yer, i know u'd expect summat with his reflector right?
Lucario, down B possibly, and dair
Ness bown B? his neutral air is ok, as well
sonic nothing
bowser. didnt find anything special
wario, his fair and nair hit close opponents with this
Young LINK. now i feel YL has the same potential as samus here, with bombs, basically have one wen ure on the edge, LJC down throw (dont throw too quick or if you hit them u get hit also) from here either you hit them then follow up with a hdair! or DI to the edge again and whilst ettin another bomb and rpeat... his nair is good for appraoching also
ROB didnt find anything
Olimar He's gd enough anyway
CF not much here, the raptor boost has too much wind up time to be effective in my opinion but the falcon punch can be turned and with DI away from stage, you can kind of edgeguard with it i suppose,
Jiggs, down B is ok i think, the LJC gives it a bit more range and makes it surprsing and a few aerials are nice,
Lucas. his down B puts him ont stage V nicely and hits the opponent away from a surprising range, this is useful also as it linkt to one of his AT's his dair also is very good LJCed and it maybe possibly to drag ppl off with it for a spike?
anyway these are just some things i've found, this is an idea i wnat to be tested before i say anything else on it and if this is allreeady written about anyway ive just wasted an evening but at least theres a somewhat guideline as to how it could be used anyway, try it out guys n gimme feedback
has ne1 else noticed that when you start a jump from the ledge (press y when ure on the ledge) u can attack IMMEDIATLEY after u let go of the edge?
i've discovered a few properties with this.
No.1 u can cancel all movement of the jump immediate;ly with a move that overides your current momentum I.E. metaknights down b, TL's dair, fox's shine etc.
If this hasnt been disvoverd or named yet ill refer to this form of use as Ledge jump cancelling
No.2 u get momentum forward and up when doing attacks similair to that of a DJC in melee and also you keep your 2nd jump! (very useful in edgeguarding)
No.3 u have momentum forward with attacks that ONLY stop your vertical movement. I.E Jigg's bownB, this combined with the forward momentum gives a larger hitbox for this (not too impressive but combined with point 4...)
No.4 it is faster than most other options of getting back from the ledge, i.e. drop down jump arieal/special e.g. compare: drop jump down B, stand down B, or Y downB (must hit B VERY quickly after pressing Y).
now please keep these in mind for the rest of the post.
this also opens options for certain mindgames as it looks as if your returning to stage(thus you can attack returning players with the element of surprise) and some characters projectiles work this way also(ill explain later) also as another method of edge guarding... for example doing this with samus bair, u can get 3 safely in and grab the ledge again, since all characters jumps from the ledge are high, and the DJC effect + floatier characters in general you can attack in a lot of space regarding players coming back on stage.
now who is it useful for? ive used this with all of the characters but not in a real match as of yet, i wanted to get some opionions form everyone else before i do (as im in the UK not many smashers near me
) newa thats where you come in, try this out comment on the thrread wether it works or not and i've made a list of attacks it works for cause i have that kinda spare time and remeber this is a test as to wether it works or not!Mario. cape (possibly for edge guard fox/falco's forward b?) upB (leaves u vulnerable)
D.K Forward special, on approach (also as a meteor edgeguard with Bsticking) bair for EG
Link didn't find anything useful
SAMUS: lots of potential here! using bombs, as the bombs have a very low knockback and some stun combined with samus' aerial mobility, you can Ledge Jump Cancel a bomb this opens up a few doors
No.1 grab the ledge again and attack (the bomb position will stop player approaching you.
No. 2 DI, off stage double jump and attack the bomb stops approaching players again but also can be used to link combos possibly?
no. 3 DI offstage and double jump then charge beam! (fully charged) if the bomb hits you should have a free K.O. if not people might be surprised by your movements and caught off guard?
also LJC bairs for 'stage guard'
Kirby. useful here for Bairs again. but also with the aerial hammer, LJC a forward B on and offstage seems very quick and useful with surprising range for this attack (see property No.3) also can be done away from stage, for edgeguard against vertically recovering players
Fox . LJC the shine seems useful. his forward seems useful only with the Bstick tho! as w/o, you str=art the attack on stage an an easily attackable position
Pika Forwarb B possibly, thunder possibly
Marth. Forward special is VERY versatile here can be used for approach to stage can be used as edgeguard (with diff directions used ) his down b is very useful here! allows you to come back onstage COUNTERING! punishable if missed but adds to mind games possibly? up B can be used to get onstage and as a gd kill move from here O.o also double as a stage guard.
all of his aerials can bes used very well here for all situations. experiment for urselves as they all work
G&W his down b can be done very quickly and surprsingly out of this, and can be done so quick (with b stick only) u pull the bucket on the stage. LJC bair is gd for edeguarding, and LJCing his dair doesnt suicide you!
Luigi, you can up special very quickly here
Diddy, cudnt be bothered lol, he's gd enough neway
Pit. only found his down b can be LJC to allow safe from projectiles appraoch onto stage
MK, all of his special can be used here to get back onto stage. his down B covers insane distance here, reaching the edge of the diamond in the middle of FD, u can attack out of this anywhere between the edge of stage to about a third into the stage tornado is really useful as well as getting pple caught in them is become harder. all of his aerials are insane from here especially at coming back on stage, his fair and nair still have a few invicinilty frames AS THEY START!
Falco, only his dair seemd to work.
Pk trainer... err, 3 diff chars, how bout NO!
Ike counter like marth's also his bair for edeguarding.
Snake, i only found it useful for his down B in certain situations, since its a surprising action, u might get away with planting his down b mines on ppl
god im only halfway.........
Peach i found nothing
Yoshi, yep still bottom tier
Ganondorf, maybe his downspecial?
IC, neutral B for appraoch and forward B also
DDD dair's ok for an approach
wolf, nothing, yer, i know u'd expect summat with his reflector right?
Lucario, down B possibly, and dair
Ness bown B? his neutral air is ok, as well
sonic nothing
bowser. didnt find anything special
wario, his fair and nair hit close opponents with this
Young LINK. now i feel YL has the same potential as samus here, with bombs, basically have one wen ure on the edge, LJC down throw (dont throw too quick or if you hit them u get hit also) from here either you hit them then follow up with a hdair! or DI to the edge again and whilst ettin another bomb and rpeat... his nair is good for appraoching also
ROB didnt find anything
Olimar He's gd enough anyway
CF not much here, the raptor boost has too much wind up time to be effective in my opinion but the falcon punch can be turned and with DI away from stage, you can kind of edgeguard with it i suppose,
Jiggs, down B is ok i think, the LJC gives it a bit more range and makes it surprsing and a few aerials are nice,
Lucas. his down B puts him ont stage V nicely and hits the opponent away from a surprising range, this is useful also as it linkt to one of his AT's his dair also is very good LJCed and it maybe possibly to drag ppl off with it for a spike?
anyway these are just some things i've found, this is an idea i wnat to be tested before i say anything else on it
and if this is allreeady written about anyway ive just wasted an evening but at least theres a somewhat guideline as to how it could be used anyway, try it out guys n gimme feedback 
