New to Falco, could use a couple pointers.

[~Tac~]

Hey guys. I main Marth and Fox, but the speed difference of the two kind of messes up my play with both. So I started trying out Falco as my secondary. Checked out the guide, looked at a few topics that have asked for help, and I've grown pretty decent with Falco. SHL isn't much of an issue due to past Fox SHLing, L-Canceling I was never perfect at but I can work on it. But I have just a couple questions I can't seem to find thru the search.

Shinecancelling, I just can't seem to do it right. I end up jumping too late or not at all, and with the control stick...yea, I doubt I need to say it. Could anyone share how to do this correctly?

In Falco's Shine > Dair > shine combo, I can't quite catch up to my target in midair to Dair and I'm forced to DI so much that I end up Bair/Fairing instead and get punished on landing. I shine or dthrow/shine, (and this is linked with my shinecancel problem) and jump late or I use the control stick and can't catch my target because the shine sends him too far left or right. Could someone explain why/how/what I'm doing wrong?

Falco's Uair has a much different sweetspot than Fox's. Fox's is at about the heel of his second foot, whereas Falco's is at about the knee of both. Any tips on how long I should wait or if this should only be done on certain terms such as a 50% and under juggle?

Falco's SHL is a bit more difficult to time, but I understand it. One issue is reverse SHL, I can't seem to get the order in which it occurs. SH > DI backwards > B > FF? Or something else.

Thanks in advance guys. I'd post a vid of me sucking, but I can't ATM due to lack of equipment.

 

[~Tac~]

A simple link to another thread would be appreciated too. I can't seem to find any. ._.

 

[Kashakunaki]

My time is limited as of right now, but to do the RSHL (Reverse Short Hop Laser) you Short Hop > Reverse B > Fast Fall. You should also keep your momentum when you do it.

 

[d_shep04]

The combo that you are talking about is called pillaring... now "L-canceliing" & "timing" is everything when trying to do this combo... but it does takes practice... you should get the hang of it in a week or two... i'll explain it step by step how to get more accurate with this combo... (it's best to train in training mode first to get the timing and l-canceling down)

1. you can either run shs (short hop spike) or double jump or just jump period...
2. then you wanna start your spike as soon as you get close to them... (d-air what most people call it)
3. as soon as you make contact with them... and land on the ground... you wanna quickly L-CANCEL... (this is where the timing comes in)
--> side note... you can tell when you dont L-CANCEL right away because of the lag
4. as soon as you L-CANCEL... shine them back up... and try to either predict or follow where they go when they pop back up...
5. now you wanna double jump... spike... (hopefully both of you will land at the same time or you will land slightly before the other person.. depends on %) as SOON as you land L-
CANCEL... and shine... then it's a process of copy and repeat...
6. now once you get the hang of it in training mode... go try it on a friend... (or you can try the comp, but human players are better b/c you can't predict their next move)

The most i ever gave somebody pillaring was 84%... the only reason why i got that was b/c after like 70% the other person was l-canceling also... when i was doing my shine... so when he hit the ground and l-canceled... my reflector is quicker than his move... so it got him every time... until he got knocked too far away for me to continue...

I hope this can help you a little bit... if you want info on any other combo's i'll try to explain them to you

 

[lonelytraveler8]

I don't know if this will help out at all, but watch some of Bombsoldier's videos. I think in the second one vs fox on the falco video page, he does what I think you're talking about.

And to compensate for the movement after the shine, he wavedashes a couple times, then jumps into a dair, ffl into a shine and then repeat.

 

[saberhof]

Im not much of a pro but i think i know enough about falco..

Shinecancelling, I just can't seem to do it right. I end up jumping too late or not at all, and with the control stick...yea, I doubt I need to say it. Could anyone share how to do this correctly?
Jump The moment you hit them, thats what i do
In Falco's Shine > Dair > shine combo, I can't quite catch up to my target in midair to Dair and I'm forced to DI so much that I end up Bair/Fairing instead and get punished on landing. I shine or dthrow/shine, (and this is linked with my shinecancel problem) and jump late or I use the control stick and can't catch my target because the shine sends him too far left or right. Could someone explain why/how/what I'm doing wrong?
hmm practice makes perfect, but the one the i do has a waveshine in it instead of canceling the shine to jumping. so it would be shine>wavedash>down-air>L-cancel>Shine this works very good against fast fallers and with the wavedash you can catch up to where they DI. thats what i do lol

Falco's Uair has a much different sweetspot than Fox's. Fox's is at about the heel of his second foot, whereas Falco's is at about the knee of both. Any tips on how long I should wait or if this should only be done on certain terms such as a 50% and under juggle?
i think falco's has a bigger hitbox, so maybe wait less time and go for it.

Falco's SHL is a bit more difficult to time, but I understand it. One issue is reverse SHL, I can't seem to get the order in which it occurs. SH > DI backwards > B > FF? Or something else.
I wait a little after hitting the ground to turn around and shoot then fast fall, dont do it the moment you jump. you will get the hang of it..

hope i helped >_>...

 

[lonelytraveler8]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5695716016436732

There's the video I mentioned of bombsoldier. Skip to 1:50 and see if that's what you're trying to do.

As for reverse SHL, I'm still struggling with it myself, as I can do the SHL backwards but can't fast fall. If I fast fall then I hardly move backwards at all. But I find if you SH > DI backwards > B you'll shoot the wrong way, you it makes sense that you have to DI after you press B to shoot the laser.

 

[~Tac~]

Thanks alot guys, especially saberhof and d_shep for the detailed info. Uber helpful :D

And not quite, lonelytraveler. I'm talking about the pillar combo where the shine sends them directly up, you full jump (or double short) to their height, Dair them down before they can recover from shock, fast-fall and repeat after L-cancelling the landing. Sort of like a constant "N" shaped motion across a stage, some can do it straight up and down tho.

 

[MrBitter]

Tmx...

If you're having trouble shine cancelling, you're going to have trouble with combos that use the shine...

It's much easier to d-air an opponent if you jump immediately after shining, rather than a few frames later.

Personally, I prefer using the control stick to jump out of a shine... You've made it sound like that's just not an option. The only advice I can give you is to continue practicing. The faster you get your thumb to X/Y after doing a shine, the faster Falco gets up in the air to continue his combo...

In other words... You need to become adept at shine cancelling before you can hope to master shine combos.

 

[LombardiUserX]

Try watching Soldier of Fortune in Youtube it should help

 

[g0nz02]

The combo that you are talking about is called pillaring... now "L-canceliing" & "timing" is everything when trying to do this combo... but it does takes practice... you should get the hang of it in a week or two... i'll explain it step by step how to get more accurate with this combo... (it's best to train in training mode first to get the timing and l-canceling down)

1. you can either run shs (short hop spike) or double jump or just jump period...
2. then you wanna start your spike as soon as you get close to them... (d-air what most people call it)
3. as soon as you make contact with them... and land on the ground... you wanna quickly L-CANCEL... (this is where the timing comes in)
--> side note... you can tell when you dont L-CANCEL right away because of the lag
4. as soon as you L-CANCEL... shine them back up... and try to either predict or follow where they go when they pop back up...
5. now you wanna double jump... spike... (hopefully both of you will land at the same time or you will land slightly before the other person.. depends on %) as SOON as you land L-
CANCEL... and shine... then it's a process of copy and repeat...
6. now once you get the hang of it in training mode... go try it on a friend... (or you can try the comp, but human players are better b/c you can't predict their next move)

The most i ever gave somebody pillaring was 84%... the only reason why i got that was b/c after like 70% the other person was l-canceling also... when i was doing my shine... so when he hit the ground and l-canceled... my reflector is quicker than his move... so it got him every time... until he got knocked too far away for me to continue...

I hope this can help you a little bit... if you want info on any other combo's i'll try to explain them to you

I cannot stress this enough:
THIS IS NOT PILLARING.


Pillaring is a shield pressure tactic, consisting of shines followed by SHFFL'd dairs. What you described is just the shine>spike>shine combo. Very different.

Anyway...
The way that I got shine cancelling down was by just playing a level-1 Bowser with a 9 handicap and .5 damage. Helps with waveshining too- try it, it worked for me.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

And not quite, lonelytraveler. I'm talking about the pillar combo where the shine sends them directly up, you full jump (or double short) to their height, Dair them down before they can recover from shock, fast-fall and repeat after L-cancelling the landing. Sort of like a constant "N" shaped motion across a stage, some can do it straight up and down tho.

Yeah, that's what he does at 1:50 in the video I mentioned. The only difference is, because fox is a fast faller and doesn't go as high from the shine, he does one or two wavedashes out of the shine to catch up with the DI and then short hops into the spikes and then repeats.

And I'm going to use that tip of yours for waveshining, g0nz02.

 

[Junpappy]

I cannot stress this enough:
THIS IS NOT PILLARING.


Pillaring is a shield pressure tactic, consisting of shines followed by SHFFL'd dairs. What you described is just the shine>spike>shine combo. Very different.

Anyway...
The way that I got shine cancelling down was by just playing a level-1 Bowser with a 9 handicap and .5 damage. Helps with waveshining too- try it, it worked for me.

You beat me to it. Yeah Pillaring is a tactic you use to break/shield poke someone's shield when they've shielded your initial attempt to shine or dair.

 

[~Tac~]

Yea. I think he thought it was pillaring 'cause the pattern was the shape of one..xD

g0nz, thats a good idea. o_o; I'll definitly try it.
As for waveshining..that was already hard enough with Fox..so I'll wait till I can SH shinecancel perfectly. Having trouble catching up to uber DIs after the shine, so I end up Fairing alot. @_@ I'll work on it.

 

[~Tac~]

Yeah, that's what he does at 1:50 in the video I mentioned. The only difference is, because fox is a fast faller and doesn't go as high from the shine, he does one or two wavedashes out of the shine to catch up with the DI and then short hops into the spikes and then repeats.

And I'm going to use that tip of yours for waveshining, g0nz02.

Ah, its kinda hard to tell when a FF is used AND a far DI is used. I see.

Edit: Didn't mean to 2x post. My bad. @_@

 

[captainlukey]

ummm for shine combos (i guess thats wat u mean), it doesnt really matter how quickly you jc the shine (as long as its relativley quick), just short hop out of it into a double jump and then continue... for practice try full hops out, make sure you fast fall the dair so you can catch back up again into the shine... hope that helps... its really not as hard as it looks... or as hard as people would lead you to believe on these boards...

 

[LaserBust]

Shinecancelling, I just can't seem to do it right. I end up jumping too late or not at all, and with the control stick...yea, I doubt I need to say it. Could anyone share how to do this correctly?

In Falco's Shine > Dair > shine combo, I can't quite catch up to my target in midair to Dair and I'm forced to DI so much that I end up Bair/Fairing instead and get punished on landing. I shine or dthrow/shine, (and this is linked with my shinecancel problem) and jump late or I use the control stick and can't catch my target because the shine sends him too far left or right. Could someone explain why/how/what I'm doing wrong?

Falco's Uair has a much different sweetspot than Fox's. Fox's is at about the heel of his second foot, whereas Falco's is at about the knee of both. Any tips on how long I should wait or if this should only be done on certain terms such as a 50% and under juggle?

Falco's SHL is a bit more difficult to time, but I understand it. One issue is reverse SHL, I can't seem to get the order in which it occurs. SH > DI backwards > B > FF? Or something else.

Thanks in advance guys. I'd post a vid of me sucking, but I can't ATM due to lack of equipment.

Hmm. ShineCanceling is just pratice and timing. If you are too slow slow yur roll, 2/3 (training mode) blah blah. Not much to it.

Umm, in Falco's Dair>Shine>Dair combo gets pretty tricky with DI. Agaisnt floatier characters I seem to ShineCancel a few frames later that usual so that I can properly follow my prey =]. Also when I first started doing this I double jumped too early, that could be yur case too (especially if your used to fox's jump). So ride out the 1st jump longer, its slower but for now its safer. This is really only usefull for floaties though, anything past that is too slow. What i personaly started doing is Lasering in the air once my oppenent is out of Dair range. I try to stun them as close to the ground as possible along with 2x in the air. Then continue the combo..

Dont know much about UpSmash, i rarely use it =/.

Lastly, with rshl just takes it in steps. Short Hop > turn around. Do that till its ez, then just add B to it. Short Hop>Turn around>Laser. Wut makes it so good though is dashing away from oppenent 1st, as using it for spacing. (Im guessing thats sorta what u meant when you said DI backwards)

Pratice makes perfect, =D

 

[lonelytraveler8]

When doing rshl, isn't it easier to to "jump backwards" instead of trying to turn in the air before shooting? Just dash away, press away from your dash and short hop at the same time and the shoot, fast fall and then proceed from there.

I do the illusion/phantasm/whatever a lot less that way, and I don't have to press as many buttons before I hit the ground.

 

[LaserBust]

Nope. Its slower. You have some "turning frames" when exiting a dash but you dont in the air =D.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

I don't know what you mean by turning frames or by exiting a dash, but I'll take your word for it, I suppose.

 

[Itchi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOKyMf_sa7U

 

[LaserBust]

You have turning frames when trying to turn in middashes. Turning frames is basicly the time it takes to turn when in a dash.

 

[lonelytraveler8]

But if you jump backwards, you're not turning in the dash. You're just jumping backwards.

 

[d_shep04]

When doing rshl, isn't it easier to to "jump backwards" instead of trying to turn in the air before shooting? Just dash away, press away from your dash and short hop at the same time and the shoot, fast fall and then proceed from there.

I do the illusion/phantasm/whatever a lot less that way, and I don't have to press as many buttons before I hit the ground.

when doing the phantasm... there is a bit of lag behind. so be careful, especially when playing team games...