New things from Melee

[Frost | Odds]

Marth's DACUS is probably perfect to stuff Jigglypuff.

Uh, not that it matters.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I think marth could grab the ledge facing the other way in Melee, not sure how much it differs in PM

PM's backwards ledgegrab window is significantly bigger than Melee's. I think I recall talk of that getting patched in 3.5, not sure though.

So soft upsmash has actually fairly large hitboxes on the side, and Marth gets crazy momentum off of DACUS, plus the hitbox lingers. This is pretty awesome because the knockback from soft usmash is fixed and: puts floaties in the air around tipper range at frame disadvantage (you can even get tipper fsmashes depending on DI), and sets up tech chases on fast fallers. Soft usmash is a way to circumvent Marth's weakness of not being able to combo into kill moves at higher percents. It's main issue is the low horizontal range, but that can be worked around via dacus, dashing, and running (since jump cancels are not required to do usmash out of dash, and you don't need to crouch before usmashing out of run, unlike melee).

Coincidentally, I was inspired to try and find more applications for Marth's DACUS after seeing this clip in a recent Salty Highlights video:

Now obviously that sort of thing is the exception rather than the rule, but it got me thinking more about incorporating it into my play. It's a fast way to put hitboxes out at midrange, and as you mentioned the knockback on the side hitboxes sets up for other options.

 

[Spralwers]

At that range after the first DACUS, tipper fsmash would've connected too.

Also it's pretty ridiculous how far away Marth can be from the ledge to reverse ledge grab it with up B. Maybe I'll upload a gif. I've tried it several times in melee and could never get it to work - if it's possible, it must have a ridiculously tight window.

 

[SpiderMad]

You should dolphin Frame advance both games and make a comparison

 

[InfinityCollision]

At that range after the first DACUS, tipper fsmash would've connected too.

Also it's pretty ridiculous how far away Marth can be from the ledge to reverse ledge grab it with up B. Maybe I'll upload a gif. I've tried it several times in melee and could never get it to work - if it's possible, it must have a ridiculously tight window.

Yeah, but then it might not have made the salty highlight reel

Marth can't reverse ledge grab at all in Melee. I believe the characters that can all share the trait of spinning during their up-b - Fox, Samus, Bowser, DK, Link, Zelda, etc. Even then the window's pretty small. PM's reverse ledge grab window is massive, at least in terms of horizontal space. You still have to get the height reasonably close or you'll just fall to your death in shame.

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm pretty sure Marth can in Melee (with up-b), have you checked?

 

[Spralwers]

I tested this in melee. Marth can't do anything like this in that old, outdated game:

Edit: Also, B reversed reverse up B in action:

Altho, maybe it's categorized better as a wavebounce since your momentum travels in the opposite direction of your attack.

 

[SpiderMad]

No that was a b-reverse, wavebounce he'd be facing towards off the stage like he started https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...rX2VjGNKPEUO32FHA&sig2=JuX4rlSrPTz11_u7WZAkXw

And Marth I swore can grab the edge facing the wrong way in Melee, but not in the same distance as you showed in PM like you said

 

[lain]

Uhhhh no Marth CANNOT grab the ledge backwards in melee in any way...


also this is an interesting thing. I'll try it out next time I have access to PM and someone to play with, seems like it'd be too fast for most people to DI correctly in the first place, guaranteeing an fsmash or utilt for kills.