New "Tafo Talks" Addresses State of Project M

[ShadowGanon]

Project M is Cool, but Imo they keep changing characters essentially resetting the meta. They don't let people adapt...

What do you think HUGE e-sports games like League of Legends do?

 

[Daftatt]

The comments and discussions on the news posts are just... so terrible these days

I feel like I'm on an amalgamation of all the smash circlejerk subreddits

I urge everyone who has made it to this comment to ignore everything they have read so far in this thread

 

[Globe]

If the fans don't want PM to die off then it won't.

 

[90007000]

Dr. Evil? What do you say to this?

Errrr thats kind of racist sir.

 

[Astro Bro]

PM, don't leave, please

 

[Kati]

Tilt stick, and it forces you to stop if you hold the C-stick.

It also leads to techniques such as Fast-Fall buffering, and comes built-in with the ability to charge smashes. There's pros and cons, it's not a simple "X is better so HAH'"

So can one do a fair while moving backwards and vice versa with a bair? charging a smash by holding the c stick isn't new or a pro.

 

[IvyDivyHorkyDorky]

You're right. Modding a game into a completely different one and being the second biggest Smash tourney at Apex 2014 is no big deal. Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Also, better controls and physics is subjective. I have more control of my character in Melee/PM so that's why I like it way more than the controls in Smash 4.

What I don't understand is that if Project M wants to be a different game so bad, why don't they go the War Craft to League of Legends route and just make their own game and not rely on Nintendo characters, right?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What I don't understand is that if Project M wants to be a different game so bad, why don't they go the War Craft to Dota route and just make their own game and not rely on Nintendo characters, right?

It would be harder and most costly.

Plus people like smash, just some don't like the Brawl or Smash 4 direction.

They wanted a melee like game so they made Project Melee.

 

[SpandexBullets]

Please, please make your own game.

You have talented artists, incredible coders, some of the best fighting game designer ever...make it.

You have given us an amazing experience with Project M, but you knew the limits it would have as a fan project of an incredibly popular IP:

• Fan game - can't sell it.
• Melee audience means you can't change/add any significant mechanics or make changes to the melee top tiers. If you did, melee players would stop playing both games as melee has a bigger reward and why focus on two very similar games when one will throw you off in another.
• Nintendo's recent interest in the competitive community was not something you all could foresee, but it happened, and since Sakurai has stated that SSB4 will be given "as much DLC as [he] can make" (paraphrasing)...this means they're not shifting focus anytime soon. This has been more or less cemented by 200cc MK8; they want these games to last a LONG time.

PM dev team have incredible knowledge of smash, and that can be implemented in a fan backed game.
I know there are horror stories of games that failed to get backed and production that never took off and pissed off hundreds of people...but this can work.
Remember Rivals of Aether? Yeah, that happened.

I think PMdevteam can make something much better.

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

Watch out, trying to degrade another member's post through sarcasm is drifting dangerously close into what some may see as elitism. That is something the majority of us here would like to avoid.

If you really are concerned with promoting growth for any Smash game - whether it's PM or one of the official titles - stay positive, give informed responses, and remain respectful of others. If you're here only to spread sarcasm and give PM players a bad image, then please refrain from posting.

By working together as a community we can promote all the games we love. Thanks for reading.

Apologies, I am just a sarcastic person by nature. I never mean anything by it.

 

[LancerStaff]

So can one do a fair while moving backwards and vice versa with a bair? charging a smash by holding the c stick isn't new or a pro.

With the C-Stick set to tilts, yes.

And it's useful because it doesn't require awkwardly pressing another button.

 

[Electric Tuba]

I don't understand why people are saying PM isn't seen anymore or "will maybe see the light of day again"... did it go somewhere? I've had to choose between tournaments to watch multiple times a week because there are so many going on

 

[Crulex Crystallite]

Project M is Cool, but Imo they keep changing characters essentially resetting the meta. They don't let people adapt, which is why a lot of top players don't play it anymore like ZeRo and Armada.

Honestly that's fair. They did say they wanted to get a finalized version of the game, they're not going be like League where they constantly change characters.

To each their own. I'm glad everyone has something they like best, and Melee, PM and Smash 4 are all different enough to justify that.

 

[DairunCates]

I don't understand why people are saying PM isn't seen anymore or "will maybe see the light of day again"... did it go somewhere? I've had to choose between tournaments to watch multiple times a week because there are so many going on

Several sponsored tourney streams have had to drop it in its entirety due to the fact that Nintendo has been a sponsor. It's got people on edge. There's still streams and side events, but anything that's a commercial event can't actually have it around as long as Nintendo is actually interested in the competitive scene. It's just bad form.

 

[Chzrm3]

People would of hated Brawl if it was Melee 2. Now with the addition of online casuals have major hurtles to overcome, and most will just whine. How do I know this? It happened to Mario Kart.

Snaking was in MKDD, and went completely unnoticed except by hardcore TTers. They were overjoyed that it returned for DS, while everybody else wasn't... Hardcores are still complaining about Snaking being removed to the day. It's the exact same situation as Melee, and Sakurai absolutely made the right choice to make Brawl casual friendly.

Melee was casual friendly, too. Having a higher skill ceiling means nothing to casuals - they'll never explore it anyway, and most won't even know it exists. And a seasoned brawl player is still going to decimate a casual brawl player.

There are plenty of people that had an absolute blast with Melee on a casual level, though.

 

[Gidy]

Honestly that's fair. They did say they wanted to get a finalized version of the game, they're not going be like League where they constantly change characters.

To each their own. I'm glad everyone has something they like best, and Melee, PM and Smash 4 are all different enough to justify that.

It's not good to nerf a game to the point where it's not fun. A lot of people feel like it's gone to that point now.

 

[Gidy]

What do you think HUGE e-sports games like League of Legends do?

League of Legends is unbalanced, last time I checked.

 

[LancerStaff]

Melee was casual friendly, too. Having a higher skill ceiling means nothing to casuals - they'll never explore it anyway, and most won't even know it exists. And a seasoned brawl player is still going to decimate a casual brawl player.

There are plenty of people that had an absolute blast with Melee on a casual level, though.

So people wouldn't be frustrated when online is filled with "cheaters" like with MKDS? I don't think so.

That's not the point. Losing to somebody better then you is a completely different thing from losing to somebody who "cheated." Which is why everybody hated MKDS.

 

[ShadowGanon]

League of Legends is unbalanced, last time I checked.

Last I checked, so is every other smash game (which are even more so than League) with maybe the exception of Smash 64 (shout outz to all you guys who stuck with Smash 64).

Show me a perfectly balanced, competitively viable video game with a cast greater than 12 and tons of depth and I will play it. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, despite League of Legends not being perfectly balanced (though Riot does a stinkin' good job of balancing), it is still the most popular game in the world currently. And they got there with (almost) monthly patches and a lot of fan service (Odd... That kind of sounds like PM...).

 

[SmashBro99]

Real games > mods and hacks

Enjoy the basement tournies.

 

[LancerStaff]

Real games > mods and hacks

Enjoy the basement tournies.

Because giving SSB4 players a bad name will help your cause.

 

[ShadowGanon]

Real games > mods and hacks

Enjoy the basement tournies.

You love your game, correct?

If that is the case, when did your love of your game give you the right to hate on other's love of their games? If the tables were turned and your game was the mod, how would you like people hating on the fact that your game is "lesser" than others simply because it was not made by Nintendo? Just a little something to think about.

Now, you could either give some serious thought to this post, or you could say something like "Doesn't matter. My game was made by Nintendo and yours wasn't. GG, loser." Your choice.

 

[Gidy]

Last I checked, so is every other smash game (which are even more so than League) with maybe the exception of Smash 64 (shout outz to all you guys who stuck with Smash 64).

Show me a perfectly balanced, competitively viable video game with a cast greater than 12 and tons of depth and I will play it. Unfortunately, it doesn't exist.

Furthermore, despite League of Legends not being perfectly balanced (though Riot does a stinkin' good job of balancing), it is still the most popular game in the world currently. And they got there with (almost) monthly patches and a lot of fan service (Odd... That kind of sounds like PM...).

I don't play league so I can't speak for how fun it is but PM nerfs characters to the point where it isn't fun. PBnJ said on stream that from talking with people like Armada and ZeRo that the minute they nerf their characters they are done. M2K refrained from using Mewtwo at some tournaments because he didn't want him to be as noticed to be nerfed. Wizzero said on stream once that he doesn't play PM anymore because Sonic isn't fun to him. TKBreezy said in a podcast that Juggleguy isn't having PM at TBH5 this year because he doesn't think its fun. I'm sure legal issues were in the mix for why it's not, but even so.

And maybe Ivysaur and Sonic were too much, but imo Pit was the weakest "best character" in any smash game.


....Maybe focus on buffs?

 

[synesthe-sia]

Informed and passive-aggressive aren't the same thing. If you can't post an informed opinion without slathering on sarcasm and bile, you probably should just keep it to yourself.

I'm afraid it's apart of life. You should know that by now. The world is a scary place. Your feelings can be hurt because of something as insignificant as a comment. Stay away from Los Santos, CJ.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'll be honest no Project M doesn't belong with the official games.

It's a mod, not an officially made game by Nintendo

 

[OmegaXT]

We just need more to's that doesn't suck nintendo's ****. Why can't they admit the wiiu was a failure anyways?

The Wii U was not, is not, and never will be a failure. Sure, it sold mediocrely at launch, but it now has many good titles (with Splatoon coming in a few days). Plus, all Nintendo has to do to shut down tournaments running PM is call the police because, if the info I'm using is correct, PM is illegal. Also, tournaments that support Nintendo receive many more benefits than tournaments that support PM.

 

[ShadowGanon]

I don't play league so I can't speak for how fun it is but PM nerfs characters to the point where it isn't fun. PBnJ said on stream that from talking with people like Armada and ZeRo that the minute they nerf their characters they are done. M2K refrained from using Mewtwo at some tournaments because he didn't want him to be as noticed to be nerfed. Wizzero said on stream once that he doesn't play PM anymore because Sonic isn't fun to him. TKBreezy said in a podcast that Juggleguy isn't having PM at TBH5 this year because he doesn't think its fun. I'm sure legal issues were in the mix for why it's not, but even so.

And maybe Ivysaur and Sonic were too much, but imo Pit was the weakest "best character" in any smash game.


....Maybe focus on buffs?

Well, in comparison to Brawl... JK. I won't go there.

However, in my personal opinion, most of those characters that you listed (3.0 M2, 3.0 Pit, 2.6 Sanic?, etc.) needed to be nerfed, though, some not as much as others (Pit wasn't too bad). They were just too good. Now, did the PMDT go over board with the nerfs? Maybe. I don't really know because I don't play those characters (though, that Roy u-air nerf hurt a lot). Do I think they are still viable in tournaments? Yes. The thing that saddens me is that those top players dropped (or will drop) the game simply because their characters were no longer top tier. No offense to players like M2K, Zero, Armada, and Wizzrobe, but I do not admire their their lack of perseverance through nerfs.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

The comments section here is further proof that the Smash fandom will never truly unite with itself. No good or actual progress is being made arguing back and so-called know-it-alls from each side. Clean up your godd*mned act instead of prancing around with pretensions of superiority.

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like PM would work wonders if it was like the 64 community, small but works off like a family. Also the game is licensing nightmare for Nintendo support, especially with Konami going crazy as of late

Well, in comparison to Brawl... JK. I won't go there.

However, in my personal opinion, most of those characters that you listed (3.0 M2, 3.0 Pit, 2.6 Sanic?, etc.) needed to be nerfed, though, some not as much as others (Pit wasn't too bad). They were just too good. Now, did the PMDT go over board with the nerfs? Maybe. I don't really know because I don't play those characters (though, that Roy u-air nerf hurt a lot). Do I think they are still viable in tournaments? Yes. The thing that saddens me is that those top players dropped (or will drop) the game simply because their characters were no longer top tier. No offense to players like M2K, Zero, Armada, and Wizzrobe, but I do not admire their their lack of perseverance through nerfs.

But some of those nerds hurt. Pit isn't even fun to play anymore and feels almost similar to how was in Brawl after Melee, okayish.

Sonic didn't get as bad but the problems are there. Plus PM dev team, while I admire their work has sort of bias with balance (Mewtwo should have never been that good in 2.0 and 2.5 and Spacies in general)

PM is the most balanced Smash but that balance is well....is jarring. Especially considering it works off of Melee and Brawl to where low tiers are really are horrible and can't ever be used

I prefer Melee for my competitive needs anyway but I still roll with Project M since I don't have a Wii U and my Smash 4 needs is only on 3DS.

 

[Sleek Media]

It's a good effort, but it only deserves to be mentioned alongside the other mods, not the official releases. Let's be real: its popularity is blown way out of proportion, and the only reason it got any traction in the first place was because Melee players wanted a new Melee, and this is the closest they'll ever get. For everyone else, it was a curiosity at most. You can site tournament numbers until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that Smash4 is the most popular Smash right now, and it likely will be for the foreseeable future. The streams and tournament organizers want to grow, and they realize that Smash4 is a far better horse to back both in the short term and the long term. It's that simple.

 

[Gidy]

Well, in comparison to Brawl... JK. I won't go there.

However, in my personal opinion, most of those characters that you listed (3.0 M2, 3.0 Pit, 2.6 Sanic?, etc.) needed to be nerfed, though, some not as much as others (Pit wasn't too bad). They were just too good. Now, did the PMDT go over board with the nerfs? Maybe. I don't really know because I don't play those characters (though, that Roy u-air nerf hurt a lot). Do I think they are still viable in tournaments? Yes. The thing that saddens me is that those top players dropped (or will drop) the game simply because their characters were no longer top tier. No offense to players like M2K, Zero, Armada, and Wizzrobe, but I do not admire their their lack of perseverance through nerfs.

Nerfs stopped them from playing because they felt nerfs made the games characters less fun. Why play a game and have perseverance if you don't have fun with it. And yeah, I said maybe Sonic needed a nerf back in the day but 3.0 Sonic was perfect. He should've been the bar of how good other characters should be, and how much to nerf other top tier characters. Yet they butchered him and many others.

 

[himemiya]

The Wii U was not, is not, and never will be a failure. Sure, it sold mediocrely at launch, but it now has many good titles (with Splatoon coming in a few days). Plus, all Nintendo has to do to shut down tournaments running PM is call the police because, if the info I'm using is correct, PM is illegal. Also, tournaments that support Nintendo receive many more benefits than tournaments that support PM.

Nintendo is desprate for sales to a point were they go "support" tournaments so they can be sure p:m is never there (and not sound like the bad guys) so they get people to look at brawl -2.0 and hopes the p:m community would drop it for brawl -2.0.

I say brawl -2.0 cause smash4 is just a downgrade of brawl.
Its a conspiracy!!!!!

 

[zpxociv]

Top Five Reasons PM is DOOMED:
#1. Freezing unstable, I'm not even using turbo and it happens
#2. General Fox bias and nerfing others even when already inferior
#3. Nintendo hates you
#4. Sm4sh fans hate you
#5. No stage creation mode remade into awesomeness, so disappoint

 

[SilentDeadbolt]

Watch out, trying to degrade another member's post through sarcasm is drifting dangerously close into what some may see as elitism. That is something the majority of us here would like to avoid.

If you really are concerned with promoting growth for any Smash game - whether it's PM or one of the official titles - stay positive, give informed responses, and remain respectful of others. If you're here only to spread sarcasm and give PM players a bad image, then please refrain from posting.

By working together as a community we can promote all the games we love. Thanks for reading.

To be fair the person said pm is 'irrelevant'. Something tells me you wouldn't take too kindly to someone saying "smash 4 is irrelevant" but then again I guess double standards are cool. #oneunit #exceptpm lol

 

[Cahalan]

With the Smash community mostly thriving with the overwhelming success of Smash 4 and Super Smash Bros. Melee continuing to age like a fine bottle of Shiraz, most everything is well in the Smash community. However, the gargantuan elephant in the room has always been the current state of the extremely popular mod, Project M. Recently, Melee It On Me's Tafokints released a video touching upon this very subject.

Tafo dropping all the knowledge.
​

With many major tournament series and streaming organizations dropping Project M, many fans are legitimately concerned about the future of the game. All of this has been occurring despite the rising popularity of Project M throughout the entire world. Melee It On Me's Tafokints does an excellent job giving comprehensive reasons why Project M is where it is currently, and where the mod will go from here. Watch the full video below!

What did you think of Tafo's points? Do you think Project M belongs with the other official games in the series? Where do you think Project M goes from here?

KhanYe wants anyone named Steve to follow me on Twitter @aymangolassi. The rest of you are inconsequential to me.

Project M will live on as long as:
People play it
People talk about it
And the hype for the next version (or the Gold version) is still there

As long as any combination of the three exist, so will Project M.

The reason why some "Sm4sh fans" hate PM, is because at this moment, most of them are young kids who just don't know any better and is their first time on the internet; and this goes for any other "Smash fans" the rag about PM and fanboy their game like it's the console wars of yester year. (this goes for pm fans that flame other fans of other smash games for various reasons as well)

Even though One Unit is a far off pipe dream currently, something in a similar spirit can still exist among all fan-bases of the current and future (and past) set of games.

 

[Mike Voss-Trikstar]

#fightforprojectm

 

[ShadowGanon]

Nerfs stopped them from playing because they felt nerfs made the games characters less fun. Why play a game and have perseverance if you don't have fun with it. And yeah, I said maybe Sonic needed a nerf back in the day but 3.0 Sonic was perfect. He should've been the bar of how good other characters should be, and how much to nerf other top tier characters. Yet they butchered him and many others.

Lol. About 8 minutes after I wrote my last post I realized I didn't mention the whole fun aspect of what you were saying. My apologies.

I can see what you're trying to say, though. If the game really isn't fun to you then there's no point in playing it. I guess (top) players that are used to static (top tier) characters in other smash games probably don't like the idea of having to switch around characters a lot. However, the thought of a constantly changing/balancing competitive game that keeps adding new content really excites some people (me included).

So, to sum up what I'm trying to say: Project M isn't for everyone. Some people may like the fact that it's constantly changing, others may not. Some might like that it has Melee mechanics with a mixture of Brawl tech, others may not. It's all a matter of opinion, which is something most of the smash community seems to not be able to get.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Project M is cool and all and it fixes all of Brawl's flaws but isn't Sm4sh superior anyway? You may not have Melee's exploitable wonky physics but everything else about it is better. More characters, better graphics, arguably superior controls and physics. Unless PM does something big its kinda irrelevant.

Hah. HAHAHAH. HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAH.

 

[SilentDeadbolt]

Honestly the biggest problem in PM's way isn't Nintendo. Its our community itself. If we actually would come together and fight for any smash game nintendo trys to mess with then they would have to back down like they did for EVO 2013. The problem is that melee players don't have to worry about their game anymore since they already won their battle, and sm4sh fans don't have anything to worry about for obvious reasons.

The simple fact is that besides PM players, no one else gives a flying **** about PM and couldn't care less if it died.

#oneunit Isn't ever gonna ****ing happen. Many Smash 4 players hate pm and melee for their 'glitches' , and many melee/PM players see sm4sh as a dumbed down version of the game(my personal opinion #honesty). Smash64 players are forgotten, And brawl is looked down on by pretty much everyone. Yes I know there are exceptions but the majority of each respective community has these attitudes.

Just be honest people. If you don't give a **** about PM, just say it. No ones asking you to pretend like you do.

 

[Champ Gold]

Honestly the biggest problem in PM's way isn't Nintendo. Its our community itself. If we actually would come together and fight for any smash game nintendo trys to mess with then they would have to back down like they did for EVO 2013. The problem is that melee players don't have to worry about their game anymore since they already won their battle, and sm4sh fans don't have anything to worry about for obvious reasons.

The simple fact is that besides PM players, no one else gives a flying **** about PM and couldn't care less if it died.

#oneunit Isn't ever gonna ****ing happen. Many Smash 4 players hate pm and melee for their 'glitches' , and many melee/PM players see sm4sh as a dumbed down version of the game(my personal opinion #honesty). Smash64 players are forgotten, And brawl is looked down on by pretty much everyone. Yes I know there are exceptions but the majority of each respective community has these attitudes.

Just be honest people. If you don't give a **** about PM, just say it. No ones asking you to pretend like you do.

Problem with the community is this:
Just play Smash no matter what.
No one can ever be #OneUnit because everyone sort of hate each other but we're family nonetheless considering we play a game the FGC considers about as shallow as DBZ/Naruto games.

Melee fans hate Smash 4 fans for being fill with childish punks who have a victim complex

Smash 4 fans hate Melee fans for being obnoxious a-holes who's superiority complex needs to drop down a little bit

Melee fans even hate PM for being 'too easy and unrewarding' also still having that Brawl stigma

Smash 4 fans hate PM for 'not being a game' and that it isn't a true Smash game

And PM are just as bad who have that bunch who feel like their game should replace either Melee, Smash 4 or that small case of both as the 'One True Smash Game' and have both problems of Melee and Smash 4 fans. It's the reason why most of the FGC rarely likes us, we can't agree on anything and can't act like adults. But it's a Nintendo series that appeals to all ages so we are gonna get that problem