New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Oasis_S]

"K. Rool isn't relevant, but I'm going to add Ray because I dunno."

 

[Deleted member]

"K. Rool isn't relevant, but I'm going to add Ray because I dunno."

Lol.

Also there's the fact that Diddy wasn't in Jungle Beat, but made it into Brawl anyway. So what's really stopping K. Rool at this point?

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Spicy Pepper I dunno, I was thinking of an idea like that, but the idea of controlling another character as a part of a moveset puts me off. I'd rather the Illusion thing be implemented by Zoroark creating lots of itself and things of the like.

I always had an idea for a staggered projectile in Night Daze. Zoroark fires a chargeable shock wave forward that disappears then reappears to trick opponents. The higher the charge, the longer the wave travels. Opponents won't be able to tell how much your move is charged, so they won't be able to tell how far the move will go. Moves like that would make Zoro deceitful without making Zoroark be another character.

Also, the next person to say "cut Lucario" gets an Aura Sphere to the face. It's just dumb.

 

[Arcadenik]

Lol.

Also there's the fact that Diddy wasn't in Jungle Beat, but made it into Brawl anyway. So what's really stopping K. Rool at this point?

Sakurai and Dixie Kong.

 

[Metal Overlord]

People here are missing the big picture

Of course, Roy being DLC for FE13 by itself wouldn't guarantee that Roy would make it into Smash. Believing that would be the same idea as relevancy basically, that a character should get in just because they made a recent appearance in their games. The big picture here is that Roy pretty much has it all. He's been in a Smash game as a playable character before, he's wanted, he was planned for the game he was cut in and he even has "relevancy" going for him, something that a lot of people just put on a pedestal here. He might even have Sakurai's bias in his advantage considering, again, Sakurai himself wanted Roy in Melee (even if he was only a clone) plus Sakurai is a big fan of FE (Tri-Hy or anyone else, if you could provide me with a link for this type of stuff, I'd appreciate it, just so others will know I'm not BSing when I say this stuff). Anyway, the point of all of this is that is all of what I said (including Roy being DLC for FE13) combine to make Roy a pretty serious candidate for Smash

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai and Dixie Kong.

If Dixie Kong was standing in his way, don't you think she'd be in Brawl seperated from Diddy?
Clearly, Sakurai didn't think much of her alone, so he HAD to make her a partner for him, and when that didn't work out, she was never brought back, when she could've easily have been added before Toon Link and Wolf.

 

[Arcadenik]

Sakurai didn't specifically ask for Roy in Melee. He wanted Leaf but he asked Intelligent Systems for permission to use Fire Emblem characters in Smash. They suggested Roy. Sakurai liked the idea of Roy's flaming sword so Roy got in over Leaf. Sakurai also went to Intelligent Systems to see if they had any new Fire Emblem games coming. They showed him Ike and he liked the character so Ike got in and he had priority over Roy. And when he had time constraints, he chose to keep Ike and cut Roy because Sakurai wanted a new character for Fire Emblem series. So, I don't know why people here think that Sakurai won't add a new Fire Emblem character like Krom over old Fire Emblem characters like Ike and Roy.

 

[---]

Also, the next person to say "cut Lucario" gets an Aura Sphere to the face. It's just dumb.

Ike agrees.

(Tri-Hy or anyone else, if you could provide me with a link for this type of stuff, I'd appreciate it, just so others will know I'm not BSing when I say this stuff). Anyway, the point of is all of what I said (including Roy being DLC for FE13) combines to make Roy a pretty serious candidate for Smash

Sakurai-san’s deep familiarity with the Fire Emblem world can be felt keenly through his work on Super Smash Bros., so it only seemed natural to ask him to do the interview. What immediately came to mind was the memory of Sakurai-san singing the Fire Emblem song on stage at the August, 2002 Super Smash Bros. Melee orchestra concert, sponsored by HAL Laboratory.

Chrono has some better points such as how much control IS gives him over use of the series, but this should do you fine for now.

I honestly don't think being DLC really means much of anything but it is something that can be added to his resume which never hurts.

 

[Johnknight1]

EEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

What is up my man=??? You still maining Zelda, hyping new smash bros. games, and causing shenanigans=???

I'm just wondering about the Zelda series take on Smash 4.

Are they going to go off Skyward Sword? Or will a more mature Zelda (that is currently planned for the Wii U, DUH) come out before Smash, and the design will be based off that?

Either way, I see her having the same moveset. Plus, there is a shot we could get both of Zelda's looks.

If Smash came out before the new said Zelda game, would they still base the design off it?

Depends if Sakurai got wind of it. Sakurai never got wind of Fire Emblem 11 until Brawl was almost finished, so he never got Marth's new look from said game. Still, Zelda Wii U is probably in development, so saying Sakurai could get stuff from that game isn't out of the question.

Also, Smash has normally hit every console Zelda design, with Ocarina of Time in SSBM, and Twilight Princess/Wind Waker in Brawl. So I'm assuming they'd want to hit Skyward Sword's design as well. That scares me. I don't like the way that Zelda looks. At All. :S If this is an HD system, which it is, I want something like the Zelda tech demo they showed at E3 2011. You know?

Regardless, like in Brawl when we got Zelda's outfit to be the one from Ocarina of Time, we will probably get a Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time costume for Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

Why cut a character already programmed into the game, Arcade?
By the time Roy was cut, Ike was already in the game and complete. (He was the first revealed Newcomer after Snake, after all.)
You act as though Sakurai had to choose between two unstarted characters and decided to pick the newer one.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

@Tri-Hy Aaaaaaamen brother. Ike, Roy, Marth. That'd make me happy for FE. I'd like Krom or Michaiah, but just those three would do it for me.

And I already made known my ideal Pokemon setup. Pikachu, Jiggs, Mewtwo, Lucario, Zoroark, Red.

Happy Breadbug right there.

 

[Johnknight1]

There's been a lot of ships passed around as stage ideas, including this, GangPlank or Gloomy Galleon (I want one of those to be a starting Donkey Kong stage), and Sandship from Skyward Sword. Melee had Rainbow Cruise (#202), and Brawl had Pirate Ship (#331).

You know the Airships would be much, much bigger than that tiny airship on Rainbow Ride (that is only about 1/5th of that stage). Most of Rainbow Cruise is like most of the Rainbow Ride stage in Super Mario 64 level; not much of it is on a ship. Pirate Ship is a very small and plain ship layout, much unlike the Super Mario Bros. 3 Airship.

As for Gang Plank Galleon (I'm ignoring Gloomy Galleon; that stage was the worst in DK64), it's a pirate ship, and takes place on water. You can climb up the ropes, maybe go on small boats, and whatnot. As for Sandship, that stage isn't happening. We all know we're getting Skyloft instead.

On the Super Mario Bros. 3 Airship, you could jump on the sides of the ship, go inside the Airships, and there could be all kinds of canons, bullet bills, and whatnot. At least it seems like it could be an awesome location for Adventure Mode. The best Mario game of all-time deserves a stage. How did Yoshi's Story get a stage, but not SMB3=???

Edit: Ask my bro Ethan; I've been asking for a Super Mario Bros. 3 stage for YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAARRRRSSSSSS!!!!

 

[Deucalion]

Ahh the old relevancy argument, this is gonna take a while but I vehemently disagree with all this and I'll explain why:

King K. Rool isn't "long forgotten", for one, lol, he was in Super Mario Sluggers which only came out a few years ago. And even though he wasn't in Returns, he's still the undisputed main villain of the DK series and one of its most popular characters; why do you think the game was criticized for not having Kremlings and having Tiki Tongs instead? Aside from that, he's also one of the most requested and agreed upon characters for Smash left

You'll see I actually noted the existence of Super Mario Sluggers in my post just before you made this. It doesn't change my argument. Being involved in one single game between the release of Brawl and the release of SSB4 is not enough to make you relevant when the competition is so tight, especially not when that game is a spin-off sports game. That puts you in the same tier of likeliness as Waluigi. If you have a 44 character limit, K. Rool is not getting near it. If I had 55 characters, he'd almost certainly be there. 44? No. The only way I'd change my mind on that one is if as we speak, Retro are working on DKCR2, featuring King K. Rool, and the release date was either before SSB4, or very closely after it.

And no, we wouldn't get any DKCR reps because the only thing they have going for them is that they are new (which isn't a lot). Contrary to what you might think, being new doesn't guarantee at all that said new character will actually get in; Wolf getting in over Krystal in Brawl should have proved that. If this relevancy thing you're fixated on were actually somewhat true, then we also wouldn't have gotten the Kanto Pokemon Trainer, we would have gotten a Hoenn or Sinnoh PT. We also would have gotten a Twilight Princess character in Brawl.

I'm not saying it's because the characters themselves are new, I'm saying that they have to have been in recent games. Wolf is more relevant than Krystal. He appears in all the same games Krystal does, AND the older ones. If Wolf had not been seen, full stop, since Star Fox 64, I reckon it would have Krystal and not Wolf. As it was, Krystal and Wolf both had equal present day relevance, but Wolf won out on historical relevance, so Wolf got in. As for why we got Kanto Pokemon Trainer over Hoenn Pokemon Trainer, that's because the generation 1 remakes came more recently than generation 3 (obviously there's Emerald, but the brunt of gen 3 is gone by Brawl, where as gen 1 has just been remade). Your Twilight Princess point makes it clear you don't understand my argument. Is Midna going to, in the long term, be relevant to the Zelda series? No. She's long gone. In order to meet my bar for inclusion, a character had to have a) a recent appearance and b) a high likelihood for repeated appearances in the future, OR, if the series is one in which characters don't return (Pokemon, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Sin and Punishment), a) originates from the first game, and b) originates from the most recent games.

Yes, I know Mewtwo is gone now. So what? Are you trying to say he can't come back just because he got cut? No offense, but that would be pretty foolish of you to say because we don't even know for sure why Mewtwo got cut in the first place and also, he was seriously planned to be in Brawl. It's pretty safe to assume that he was cut relatively late in development for Brawl due to time constraints, since every Smash game has been faced with time constraints (in case you didn't know, Mewtwo was also planned for the original Smash game, but cut due to guess what? Time constraints). Sakurai himself even said before that there was stuff he wanted to include in Brawl, but couldn't due to time constraints. That could include but not be limited to Mewtwo.

I know, but when Brawl was released, FR/LG had just come out. It's the same reason that Kanto Trainer is present. At that point, Mewtwo had just featured prominently in a released game. Pokemon is one of the series I mentioned above as part of the second type: those that lack returning characters. As such, it gets the automatic, grandfathered representatives from the first game in the series (Pikachu and Jigglypuff) in this case, and then icons from the most recent games. Put it this way: if Mewtwo couldn't even make it to Brawl, if he was a less important inclusion to Brawl than someone like ROB, and given he's not had a major role in anything since Brawl except Nobunaga's Ambition, what makes you think they'll put him in SSB4? He's not gotten any more important since SSBB, only less. Much like King K. Rool, if it suddenly turns out Mewtwo has a starring role in Black and White 2, then he'd be on my 44 character list. As it is? No. If I had 55 characters, he'd make it. But I have 44, and he simply is not important enough for that list.

Mewtwo is the only character with a unique moveset to ever be cut from a Smash game, so that should tell you something right there. And since you yourself think that Pokemon needs to be represented more fully, when you stop looking at things from the surface, you'll realize that Mewtwo would only help your cause rather than hinder it because he is currently the only legendary Pokemon to ever be playable in a Smash game. Legendary Pokemon are a significant part of the Pokemon games, and who would be better to represent them as a whole than Mewtwo? He's the most popular of them all, being the strongest Pokemon ever at one point until Arceus came along. We already have the mascot, Pokemon Trainer and starter Pokemon, and regular, wild Pokemon. We've even had baby Pokemon represented in Smash before with Pichu in Melee, so all that's really left to represent would be legendary Pokemon. I don't really need to prove why he's a great choice for Smash, but aside from his popularity, Mewtwo is one of the most requested characters for Smash 4, up there with Ridley and K. Rool and Mega Man in terms of requests, even.

Still wouldn't be Mewtwo. Even if we accept your argument that the way we should represent Pokemon is via stages (baby, mascot, trainer, legendary), that has to be balanced by what games in the Pokemon series have been out recently. Mewtwo has not been part of the Regional Pokedex in any game since 2004. If SSBB is released in say, 2014, which would still be surprising given work only started recently, it will have been 10 entire years since Mewtwo was really that important in the grand scheme of the Pokemon franchise. As for "requested characters", I doubt that means anything to Sakurai. Roy is still one of the most requested characters, despite not having featured in a game for 10 years. The sole reason Roy is requested was because he made it into Smash in the first place. Same reason goes for Mewtwo. They're not being requested because of how popular they are within their own franchises, they're being requested because of how popular they are within Smash.

If I was allowed to have more characters from the Pokemon roster, in terms of importance it would look like this: 1) Pikachu, 2) Jigglypuff, 3 (joint)) Unova Trainer 2, 3 (joint)) Zoroark, 4 (joint)) Kanto Trainer, 4 (joint)) Mewtwo. I don't think that order can really be disputed too much, surely? Pikachu and Jigglypuff are the mascots. Unova Trainer 2 represents the starters from the most recent game and Zoroark the most recent poster boy. Kanto Trainer and Mewtwo are up next, as the starters from the first games and the first poster boy, but given I have 44 characters, and given that Pokemon already has an 11th of all the available characters, I don't have room for Mewtwo in a 44 character list.

Also, 3 Pokemon from one gen is too much? Do you realize how many Pokemon there are in the 1st gen, let alone overall? So how would that be overrepresenting it, even in terms of numbers? And again, why are you so hellbent on representing every Pokemon gen? It's not important to do at all because it's not like becoming playable is the only way to represent every Pokemon in Smash. We have Pokeballs as items, so even if every single gen doesn't get represented with playable characters, we'd still get a bunch of them as Pokeball Pokemon. They wouldn't be playable, but Pokeballs are arguably an even more accurate representation of Pokemon in Smash than becoming playable because they assist the person who summoned them in battle by attacking others in some way, just like in the games, a Trainer summons Pokemon to help them out in some way. Anyway, more to the point, do you really expect Sakurai to just sit there and try to pick a Pokemon from every single generation to put in Smash as a playable character, just so every gen can get a "piece of the pie", so to speak? If so, then I don't know what to tell you other than that isn't realistic or necessary at all.

Gen 1 has 151 Pokemon out of 649 (not including Formes), making for 23% of all Pokemon. So, as you can see, if we're going purely "by the numbers", Gen 1 should actually only have 1 of the reps. But I'm not arguing by the numbers, I'm arguing: "how important are they to the series from both a historical and modern perspective". Mewtwo does have historical importance, but not as much as Jigglypuff or Pikachu, and he has no importance from a modern perspective. Thus, he narrowly misses out. I'm not trying to represent every single gen, I'm saying having 3 out of the 4 representatives from Gen 1 when even the remakes of Gen 1 will have been released a good 10 years before is madness.

As for Roy, even if he weren't DLC for the newest FE game (that came out this year), what would not being playable for in an FE game a while really do to hinder his chances? Sakurai himself requested Roy to be in Melee before his game even came out (the only other known character he specifically requested to be in Smash was Captain Falcon for Smash 64, so that's saying something), and like Mewtwo, he was also planned to be in Brawl but likely cut due to time constraints. Also, just like with Mewtwo, he's one of the most requested characters for Smash, maybe not quite on the levels as say Ridley or even Mewtwo, but definitely up there in terms of how wanted he is.

Roy is even less important than Mewtwo. Put it this way, if I had 55 characters, Mewtwo would definitely be one of them. If I had 55 characters, Roy would definitely not be. The last time Roy was important was in 2002. Why should Roy be in SSB4 over Krom? Ike? Eirika? Ephraim? Hector? Eliwood? Lyn? All of those characters have a better shot than Roy does. Fire Emblem is the second type of series I mentioned above: rather than re-using characters, every game has entirely new characters (bar the occasional sequel). That means the characters that are really important are the ones from the first game, and the ones from the most recent game. Roy isn't from either by the time SSB4 comes around. The only single reason people want Roy is because he featured in SSBM. No other reason. If you pick Roy, you're saying "it is acceptable to pick a Lord from a game that is not the first or the most recent". That means Krom, Ike, Micaiah, Eirika, Ephraim, Hector, Eliwood, Lyn, Roy, Leaf, Celice, Sigurd, Alm, Celica and Marth are all acceptable choices. How can you justify Roy over any of them? You simply can't.

Now for Zoroark and Krom... again, what exactly do you think they have going for them. They're newer yes, but they don't have anything else going for them besides that. Who even really wants them? They're only really brought up because a lot of people feel that Ike and Lucario will be replaced like "Mewtwo and Roy were" (which isn't really true, but that's what people out there think, so yeah) and that Zoroark and Krom would be the best replacements for them considering their similarities to Lucario and Ike respectively (well, Lucario and Zoroark aren't really all that similar aside from being canines, I guess, but again, that's what a lot of people think). Now, mind you, even if they do get in the game, there's nothing saying that they can't coexist with Mewtwo and Roy if THEY get in. I guess Brawl made people a lot more pessimistic about the roster than I originally thought, because apparently, it's just IMPOSSIBLE for Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark to be in the same game (same for Ike, Roy and Krom); it always has to be one or the other while the other one gets cut, I guess.

Hello? My roster has a 44 character list I set to make things difficult for myself. So, in the context of this constraint, Mewtwo and Roy can't co-exist with Krom and Zoroark without me having to remove 2 other characters. There are no 2 characters on that list of 44 I would remove for Roy. I would consider removing either Toon Link, or one of Falco or Wolf, in favour of Mewtwo, but still unlikely. It's not IMPOSSIBLE for them to be together if you have a large number to work with, but the whole point of my roster is that they don't. As for how Zoroark and Krom are important, they're the mascot of the most recent Pokemon game and the main antagonist of the most recent Fire Emblem game. How are they not important? You may have grown up with Roy and Mewtwo, but there's a whole generation of potential new Smash fans out there who haven't. They've grown up with Krom and Zoroark, and that's why Zoroak and Krom are more important.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents. I look forward to seeing whether you actually respond or not and how you respond if you do

That's how I've responded. If you're interested, I'll post my "ideal list" of 55 characters, and you can see what I do when I'm not constrained.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Sakurai didn't specifically ask for Roy in Melee. He wanted Leaf but he asked Intelligent Systems for permission to use Fire Emblem characters in Smash. They suggested Roy.

Source? Not saying I don't believe it, but I've NEVER heard this before

Thanks Tri-Hy

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff is not a mascot, you are talking all kinds of crazy.
And Jigglypuff hasn't been important in a "modern" sense for YEARS now, even more than Mewtwo. At least Mewtwo had boss standings in a few spin-offs and recent promotions for B/W. Hell, B/W even gave Mewtwo his own signature attack!

 

[Johnknight1]

Jigglypuff used to (maybe still is?) be a (not the) mascot for Pokémon, at least in Japan. Then again, Pokémon (specifically the 1st Generation) had loads of "mascots."

Spoiler

151, lol=???

Plus, virtually everyone knows what a Jigglypuff is!

Also, dang, you guys are posting longer than I would ever dare to!

 

[Warheart_666]

@Arcadenik

Whut?
I'm sorry but I'm a little confused...
I didn't mention anything about characters getting cut, I was talking about only newcomers and not veterans.

LOL, the funny thing is that I agree with what you've said, but I'm not really sure how I can relate this to my post(s)? Which post did you even mean?

Please quote next time, because right now I feel kinda lost and a little stupid tbh...

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff used to be a (not the) mascot for Pokémon, at least in Japan. Then again, Pokémon (specifically the 1st Generation) had loads of "mascots."

Plus, virtually everyone knows what a Jigglypuff is!

Also, dang, you guys are posting longer than I would ever dare to!

Jigglypuff was only the 2nd most popular Pokemon there for a while.
Source on your "was a mascot".

Also, I feel this image is appropriate again for this current discussion....

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^ That picture is still so true. Lucario and Mewtwo are already completely different and very unique. Making Zoroark different and unique isn't hard at all!

Jigglypuff was only the 2nd most popular Pokemon there for a while.

That is my point.

Source on your "was a mascot".

It is kinda sorta a "de facto" thing; thus, there is no "proof." Then again, I think there were several "mascots" (note the quotation marks) of the 1st Generation of Pokémon.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Being in Pokemon Conquest is hardly relevant considering that the spin off games are rarely acknowledged in the Super Smash Bros to begin with.

Being able to co-exist is also irrelevant.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Arcadenik

Whut?
I'm sorry but I'm a little confused...
I didn't mention anything about characters getting cut, I was talking about only newcomers and not veterans.

LOL, the funny thing is that I agree with what you've said, but I'm not really sure how I can relate this to my post(s)? Which post did you even mean?

Please quote next time, because right now I feel kinda lost and a little stupid tbh...

Sorry, I was responding to your last post above mine.

 

[Warheart_666]

Jigglypuff used to (maybe still is?) be a (not the) mascot for Pokémon, at least in Japan. Then again, Pokémon (specifically the 1st Generation) had loads of "mascots."

Spoiler

151, lol=???

Plus, virtually everyone knows what a Jigglypuff is!

Also, dang, you guys are posting longer than I would ever dare to!

I think Jigglypuff is an interesting case in Smash because I'm not sure why Sakurai chose her and not... <input Pokemon name here>...
But if she was popular in Japan, then OK...
Can anyone help me here?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Jigglypuff was simply added to recycle Kirby's model, but is still around due to the rule of seniority along with the original 12 characters.

 

[Deucalion]

Rrrrrresponses in rrrred! :robotnik:

Gimme a mo, I'm going to have to copy paste them out of your original post. Will respond in a mo.

"K. Rool isn't relevant, but I'm going to add Ray because I dunno."

Ray has been the main model robot of his own series. He has an entire 5 games of which he is the main star. King K. Rool doesn't even have his own series, he's simply the villain within the Donkey Kong series. Don't get me wrong, the Custom Robo series is really not important at all, and I'd never expand it beyond Ray, but I feel adding new Nintendo franchises is ultimately more important than expanding the current ones; because SSB should be about celebrating Nintendo's diversity. I'm including Ray for the same reason I didn't kick out Captain Falcon, despite the fact he hasn't had a game in goodness knows how long.

Also there's the fact that Diddy wasn't in Jungle Beat, but made it into Brawl anyway. So what's really stopping K. Rool at this point?

I wouldn't stop K. Rool if I had more characters, I just don't feel he's more important than any of the 44 characters there. If I was to replace a character, it'd be one of Toon Link, Falco or Wolf - probably Toon Link. Which one would you pick to replace with K. Rool?

EDIT: Want to make this absolutely clear. I'm not saying that I don't think K. Rool, or Mewtwo, or Ike, should not be in SSB4. I think realistically, SSB4 will have around 55 characters. That's definitely room for them. I'm saying that in the limit of 44 characters, which is what I've set myself in order to present a challenge, K. Rool, Mewtwo and Ike do not make it in.

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, Sakurai said that the only newer (non-Retro) series he found "worthy" of a character is Pikmin and Animal Crossing (but later stated that AC didn't fit the vibe).
So it's clear he doesn't find Custom Robo or Starfy worthy. And the only one between the two that can possibly change at this point is Starfy with his series finally being released out of Japan.

So yeah, axe Ray for K. Rool, keep the veterans.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Umm, I think you mistake the context of the word coexist here, Haba.

It's very relevant, considering the word here means that the three could exist in the same Smash game without one being cut to focus on the other.

 

[Johnknight1]

Being in Pokemon Conquest is hardly relevant considering that the spin off games are rarely acknowledged in the Super Smash Bros to begin with.

Who cares=??? Nobody mentioned Pokémon Conquest. I don't even know what it is! We're talking about Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark and how they can co-exist in smash.

Being able to co-exist is also irrelevant.

No, it's not. Mewtwo, Lucario, and Zoroark are all unique, and thus, all could be in Smash Wii U and 3DS as original characters.

 

[Deucalion]

Dude, Sakurai said that the only newer (non-Retro) series he found "worthy" of a character is Pikmin and Animal Crossing (but later stated that AC didn't fit the vibe).
So it's clear he doesn't find Custom Robo or Starfy worthy. And the only one between the two that can possibly change at this point is Starfy with his series finally being released out of Japan.

So yeah, axe Ray for K. Rool, keep the veterans.

So say we cut Ray and Starfy, that gives you room for two more characters. You still can't have K. Rool and Mewtwo and Roy and Lucario and fit inside 44 characters. So which are the 2 most important characters missing from my list? I'd say K. Rool and Mewtwo.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think Jigglypuff is an interesting case in Smash because I'm not sure why Sakurai chose her and not... <input Pokemon name here>...
But if she was popular in Japan, then OK...
Can anyone help me here?

Because Jigglypuff is perfect for Smash Bros. Everything about Jigglypuff in Smash Bros. "fits," and nobody in smash plays like Jigglypuff. No characters moves, fights, and spaces so uniquely. Jigglypuff may be the most "air" and "jumping" dependent character in a fighting game ever, and thus, may be a unique character for fighting games.

Jigglypuff got in because it is a unique character, it was ridiculously popular, and even millions of non-gamers knows its' name. It's slow on the ground, but fast in the air. It can't space well on the ground, but it is great at spacing in the air. It can be juggled, but but it can juggle and combo easily. It is a very small target, with somewhat small hit boxes. It is easy to kill early, but it can get some easy early kills with Rest, Wall of Pains, and other such combos that chase opponents off the stage.

 

[Deleted member]

Err, John, the image I posted mentions Pokemon Conquest. It's that Pokemon X Nobunaga's Ambition game for the DS.

@Deu: Don't know why you're shooting for 44, when 46 is the most reasonable amount.
Sakurai mentions the number 50 a lot, and in his viewpoint, Brawl has 39 characters.
So if we got by slots to make 50 "characters", we'd have 46.

@John: Actually, Sakurai mentioned that he intended on Jigglypuff being the joke character, but she was taken seriously (and that's when he added Pichu).

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Golden
Oh.... umm.... okay. That's kinda random, though that the picture mentions that game!

If anything, their different moves should prove they can co-exist and yet not be clones of each other. Mewtwo and Lucario already proved they are different.

As for Jigglypuff, she was a joke character, but as I mentioned, Jigglypuff has bee seriously awesome in smash (minus Brawl, but that's Brawl's fault).

 

[Deucalion]

@Deu: Don't know why you're shooting for 44, when 46 is the most reasonable amount.
Sakurai mentions the number 50 a lot, and in his viewpoint, Brawl has 39 characters.
So if we got by slots to make 50 "characters", we'd have 46.

@John: Actually, Sakurai mentioned that he intended on Jigglypuff being the joke character, but she was taken seriously (and that's when he added Pichu).

Because 44 means you have a 9 by 5 box when Random is added in.

 

[Oasis_S]

I don't even know what it is!

Typical John.

 

[Arcadenik]

Dude, Sakurai said that the only newer (non-Retro) series he found "worthy" of a character is Pikmin and Animal Crossing (but later stated that AC didn't fit the vibe).
So it's clear he doesn't find Custom Robo or Starfy worthy. And the only one between the two that can possibly change at this point is Starfy with his series finally being released out of Japan.

So yeah, axe Ray for K. Rool, keep the veterans.

Well, then by that logic... it's a huge waste of time to debate whether Isaac or Saki should get in Smash 4 because Sakurai didn't find Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment worthy. And those were the games where Isaac and Saki were actually the protagonists. They aren't the protagonists in the post-Brawl games. That would be Matthew and Isa.

And at the red part.... Starfy did get his series released out of Japan a few months after Brawl came out.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Deucalion
I doubt Sakurai cares about roster layout.

Also, Sakurai mentioned 50 because it is an easy number, and a common goal. 50 years of working, 50 years of marriage, 50% done. It's easy to roll off the tongue. We're getting more than 44 characters. I can guarantee you that. Judging by how Melee had 14 characters more than Smash 64's 12 (26 total), and Brawl had 13 more than Melee's 26 (39 total), I think Smash Wii U and 3DS having 12 more than Brawl's 39 (51 total) is very possible. This I think is especially true, since I think Sakurai doesn't want to compromise roster size, and the Wii U and 3DS both could easily fit that many characters.

@ Oasis
You mean you care about Pokémon Spin-off games not called Pokémon Snap, Stadium, or Coliseum=???

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think Starfy finally being released in America will increase his chances as being a playable character. Mostly due to the fact Sakurai doesn't like adding characters from Japanese-only franchises.

 

[Arcadenik]

@Deu: Don't know why you're shooting for 44, when 46 is the most reasonable amount.
Sakurai mentions the number 50 a lot, and in his viewpoint, Brawl has 39 characters.
So if we got by slots to make 50 "characters", we'd have 46.

That's only assuming if we didn't get any new transformation characters such as Dixie & Kiddy, Team Rocket, and Masked Link.

 

[Starphoenix]

There is so much in this thread right now that makes me want to bang my head on my desk. Seriously people.

 

[Arcadenik]

I think Starfy being released in America will increase his chances as being a playable character. Mostly due to the fact Sakurai doesn't like adding characters from a Japan-only franchises.

OMG. No one here knows Starfy had his game out in America since 2008?!

 

[Warheart_666]

Sorry, I was responding to your last post above mine.

Oh, in that case, I'm gonna stick with what I've said before.
When it comes to most veterans, they should stay...
But when it comes to new characters, I think Sakurai should take some small risks. If he thinks that some popular characters won't be interesting in Smash, he could always choose one or more characters that are more interesting. Though people won't of course like this, but there will always be those who complain anyway...