New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Deleted member]

BTW, I'm almost finished with my Waluigi moveset, if anyone cares.

 

[Johnknight1]

I care. I'll compare it to what I saw with Waluigi as an Assist Trophy character in my dream earlier this week. Seriously, this dream Waluigi AT had almost a full move set, and looked pretty cool. It made me want to play as him (in the dream).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What version of Waluigi are you basing it off of?

You just making a bunch of Tennis rackets/ go karts/ etc?

Or having a unique moveset, possible his ability to control vines/ etc

 

[Johnknight1]

Apparently (in Golden's previously Waluigi move set), he uses a lot of moves that Waluigi uses a lot. I think a good amount of them came from Mario Party.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sounds awesome, GY.

I should call you Golden Waluigi.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's not Waluigi without the crotch chop.

He's gotta have the crotch chop.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Johnknight1]

Last time he had the Crotch Chop and the Mid Air Swim. Also, some piranha plant move thingy!

 

[Deleted member]

Like in Brawl, he wields the racket as a main weapon like how Link uses his sword.
The racket is the only thing he uses, however. No baseball bat, no hockey stick, no soccer ball, etc.

But he has his own abilities as well. For example the two Power Shots from Mario Power Tennis, both where he swims in midair and where he flies in a tornado? He has those.
He also uses a purple thorn vine as a tether recovery.
I designed him to be a King of Recovery.

And his Final Smash? A throwback to both DDR Mario Mix and Mario Strikers Charged.

The only things I haven't given him are the four armed backpack from Sports Mix (couldn't really fit it anywhere but Final Smash, but it was less important than representing DDR Mario Mix), the Whiskered Eggplant/Liar Ball (couldn't fit it), or the Piranha Plant from Mario Party 3 (but when I make taunts and victory poses later, it will be in one).

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I feel smash should develop Waluigi as a real character, rather than some amalgamation of the mario side games

 

[RomanceDawn]

I hated Bowser Jr, but after people yapping about him here and is inclusion in NSMBW I think he's cool now.

I hated Waluigi as a playable Smash character and now my feelings are compromised. If he turned out this creative I would welcome him with open arms.

Still no one could ever convince me that Tiny Kong should ever get in over Dixie, or any other Kong for that matter.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Psycho Uncharted
I think that is Nintendo's role with either a brand new Waluigi IP, a new original IP as a main/role character (instead of it all revolving around him), or as part of the Wario Ware, Wario Land, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, or Mario Bros. franchises/IPs.

@ Romance
Turning smaller and getting stronger as a Final Smash sounds like a good reason to include Tiny Kong. Still, ain't nobody supporting her. Tiny Kong seems like a perfect trophy character, sticker character idea, background character idea, NPC character idea, or assist trophy character idea though.

Meanwhile, Dixie Kong is the perfect playable character idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sunshine alone made me interested in Jr. Didn't much care about his other appearances, really.

Waluigi, I used to hate him(being in Smash), what I thought there was a Mario canon. Since that doesn't exist, bring him in!

Dixie is the only other Kong important enough to get in, plus, she was somewhat planned. Sounds like a winner for me.

 

[N3ON]

For what it's worth, I used to think Jr would work best with Shadow Mario as part of his moveset. Now I think the opposite.

I've never had a problem with Waluigi in Smash (although I still think other Mario characters will get in first), and when he finally gets in I'd like to see how he is implemented, he has potential for quite an interesting moveset.

Even though Lanky is far and away the best Kong ever , Dixie is the only Kong left to actually have a chance of getting in. And she also has quite a lot to work with in making an interesting moveset.

Spoiler

Cranky for SSB5

 

[Deleted member]

Well, here it is. Tell me what you all think.

Spoiler

Neutral Attack – Waluigi punches, then swats with his tennis racket.
Dash Attack – Waluigi leaps forward with a drill kick.
Strong Side – Waluigi uses a slice technique with his tennis racket.
Strong Up – Waluigi attacks with a flat serve technique with his tennis racket.
Strong Down - Waluigi kneels on one leg and sweeps the other leg forward like Ganondorf.
Side Smash – Waluigi swings his tennis racket hard like one of his Assist Trophy finishing attacks.
Up Smash – Waluigi hops on his hands and thrusts his legs upwards.
Down Smash – Waluigi reaches his leg forward and stomps, like his other Assist Trophy finishing attacks.
Ledge attack – Waluigi rolls up from the ledge and attacks with a falling axe kick.
100% ledge attack – Waluigi pulls himself up and uses a lob shot technique with his tennis racket.
Floor attack – Waluigi breakdances as he pulls himself up.
Neutral Aerial – A sex kick. Pretty much like Mario or Luigi.
Forward Aerial – Rapidly frantically swings his tennis racket forward.
Back Aerial – Back fist behind him.
Up Aerial – Flip kick.
Down Aerial – In reference to the Drop Rocket technique from Super Mario Strikers, Waluigi crashes downward feet first.
Grab/Tether Recovery-Waluigi grabs opponents and ledges with a purple thorn whip from Mario Strikers Charged.
Pummel – Knees opponent.
Forward Throw – Serves the opponent with his tennis racket.
Back Throw – Tosses opponent back, then back kicks them.
Up Throw – Punts the opponent upward with his tennis racket.
Down Throw – Throws the opponent to the ground and jumps on them.
Standard Special-Serve: Waluigi pulls out a signature tennis ball engraved with his symbol and lightly tosses it in the air. Press the Special Attack button again to serve the ball forward. If the Special Attack button isn’t pressed a second time, Waluigi merely catches the ball. If the Special Attack button is pressed too early, Waluigi will miss the ball and it will drop to the ground.
Side Special-Swimming Return: Waluigi’s Defensive Power Shot from Mario Power Tennis. Waluigi will swim forward in the air, unaffected by gravity. Waluigi will hit people as he moves forward. This move can be canceled by pressing the normal attack button, in which Waluigi will stop moving and swing his tennis racket.
Up Special-Whirluigi: Waluigi’s Offensive Power Shot from Mario Power Tennis. Waluigi bends his back into the shape of an upside down L, then rises upward while spinning in a tornado. Unlike the Mario Tornado/Luigi Cyclone, he is actually inside a tornado not unlike Meta Knight’s Mach Tornado.
Down Special-Piledriver Stomp: Waluigi stomps people into the ground like his Assist Trophy attack. If used in the air, it spikes.
Final Smash-Destruction Dance: In reference to Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix, Waluigi starts to dance while it rains Bob-ombs like in Sudden Death mode. To make matters worse, purple thorny vines grow around parts of the stage like in Waluigi’s Wall-Luigi ability from Mario Strikers Charged.
Taunts-
1. Waluigi strikes a pose similar to his Melee trophy but instead making his symbol with his fingers rather than simply pointing while shouting “Waluigi Time!”
2. Waluigi shouts while making a typical immature face, like his Away Entrance in Mario Strikers Charged.
3. Waluigi cackles to the sky. (His Assist Trophy entrance)
Victory Poses-
1. Waluigi faces the left and Crotch Chops, faces the right and Crotch Chops, then faces the camera and Crotch Chops while continuously chanting his name.
2. Waluigi strums his Tennis Racket like a guitar and ends by striking a “chord”.
3. Waluigi pulls out his potted Piranha Plant and yells “Waluigi wins!” The Piranha Plant then bites onto his nose, causing him to yell out in pain.
Entrance-Waluigi comes crashing down from the sky, like his Home Entrance in Mario Strikers Charged.
Other Neat Stuff-
-When Waluigi does a Dodge Roll, he doesn’t roll. He disappears in a puff of purple fire and reappears where a normal character would go after a Dodge Roll. (Like his ability in Mario Strikers Charged)
-Waluigi, being the poor sport he is, doesn’t clap for the winner. He bites on his tennis racket, throws it to the floor, then turns around and pouts while stamping his foot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That... is awesome, GY. You get a Golden Medal. *pits it to his chest, regardless of whether he has a shirt or not*

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks.
I've been holding on to some of these ideas for a long time. :D

 

[N3ON]

I completely forgot about that air swimming thing Waluigi does. Even if I had remembered it I probably wouldn't have been creative enough to use it in the moveset. Great idea!

Did you take inspiration from Crusade on the Standard and Down specials? Or do great minds just think alike? lol

 

[Berserker.]

We all know Sakurai said that representation plays an important role in making a roster. However, will that be a problem for him in this game? Let's dissect the brawl roster.

Mario

Mario has a perfect representation of the series. It has the main character, secondary/sidekick and the villain. They also added the damsel in distress, Peach to make it even more complete. These 4 characters are what made up the Mario series.

Mario - Main character
Luigi - Sidekick
Peach - Damsel/Female
Bowser - The villain

Kirby

Perfectly represented.What can I say?

Kirby - Main
MK - friend/Anti hero
Dedede - Villain

Zelda

Pretty much like Mario only with a unique counterpart character. A Link counterpart has always been part of the smash series. From Young Link in Melee to Toon Link in Brawl. It seems to have become a tradition. We don't know if it is one but it's still quite noticeable.

Link - Main character
Zelda/Sheik - Damsel/Female
Ganondorf - The villain
Toon Link - The counterpart of the main character

DK

An almost complete series lacking a villain which is why K. Rool is one of the most requested characters for Smash 4.

Donkey Kong - Main character
Diddy Kong - Sidekick

Metroid

Same as DK. Metroid is missing Ridley, the arch nemesis/villain of Samus. If Ridley is added, the series will be perfectly represented.

Samus - Main character

Star Fox

One of the most simply perfectly represented series in brawl. No additional 4th character. Just the main character/friend or sidekick and the villain.

Fox - Main character
Falco - Sidekick/Friend
Wolf - Villain

Pokemon

Pokemon has a certain pattern. There's Pikachu and Jigglypuff since Smash 64. Also, there's a gen rep in each game (Mewtwo and Lucario). However in Brawl, a newcomer came in and that was Red. So.... Maybe you can expect a new gen rep or possibly the replacement of Pokemon trainer.

Pikachu - Mascot/Main
Jigglypuff - Joke character
Lucario - Generation rep
Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard)

F-Zero

The series is perfect. Falcon is enough. However, Goroh too can be part to make it even feel more complete.

Captain Falcon

Earthbound

From what I've observed, a villain in Mother is not necessary. This series is like FE. 2 protagonists from their game. Ness from the first Earthbound and Lucas from Mother 3(?)

Ness - Protagonist from a game
Lucas - Another protagonist from a game

Fire Emblem

Same as Earthbound. Roy, who was replaced by Ike, was also a protagonist of one fire emblem game

Marth - Protagonist from a game
Ike - Another protagonist from a game

Retro

Can't say much about this but expect a newcomer from a retro franchise in every smash bros. game. Sakurai is gonna focus a little more on the obscure franchises so expect even MORE retro characters.

Ice Climbers - Retro
Pit - Retro

New series

A new series is a series that is still living in the present. Games are still being made for them at this time YET they don't have a character in Smash Bros yet. Expect more of them in smash 4 (Maybe).

Olimar - Pikmin main character
Wario - Wario main character

Nintendo

This remains to be a mystery for me but from what I can tell, these are just the iconic characters of nintendo's history.

ROB - The controller
Game and Watch - ???

3rd party

Self explanatory stuff.

Snake
Sonic

Now I'm not doing this just because people claim that Toad isn't really a good representation of Mario (In fact, he is).

Notice how well represented each franchise is. All the roster needs is a villain for Metroid and DK (Ridley and K Rool) then it's perfect.

People still claim that representation will still be important for the making of the Smash 4 roster but will it still be? The roster of brawl is a great representation of Nintendo. This is probably the reason why Sakurai is gonna be slightly focusing on the obscure franchises now. Because there's NOTHING MORE TO ADD.

Maybe he will still add more characters to the current franchises. This could possibly mean something:

- Popularity may play an important role in this game
- Expect the ratio of new series characters and retro characters to newcomers from current series (Mario, Zelda, etc.) to be 55 : 45 or 60 : 50



This is just my theory though. I think representation will be a bit problematic for Sakurai like what Arca said. I just want your opinions that may clear my doubts regarding representation or make it even bigger.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, Down Special came from Brawl while Neutral Special is based from his debut game being Tennis, but yes, how they work was inspired by Crusade.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, that's what I meant

Crusade has given me some ideas about how some characters would work also, even if that game isn't the best representation of them.

Anyway, I really like your moveset. Suddenly, I wouldn't mind playing as Waluigi over other potential Mario reps.

 

[Deleted member]

Thanks.

I might do Flint Norris next. But not anytime soon. Now, it is time to rest and prepare for next week's finals.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Night, Golden Waluigi.

 

[Deleted member]

I WAA into the moonlight!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa........ *poof*

 

[Johnknight1]

Crusade has some good ideas for moves (not characters), actually. A lot of them seem like they would really "work" and "fit" in smash while "sticking out."

Also Golden, even though I am against Waluigi's inclusion (for Smash Wii U and 3DS; after that I'll evaluate the potential 1st/2nd party newcomer pool, and rank him then), I do like the general gist of the moveset. You got ride of all of your former moveset that was gimmicky. You also added an awesome neutral B that seems like the perfect projectile for Waluigi that I would love to see implemented.

My only complaint is I don't think I saw a A-A-A attack (it was probably the 1st one) and I think there will be 4 taunts in Smash Wii U and 3DS, in which you need 1 more taunt. I would love to see Waluigi have a taunt where he pulls out a Luigi hat from under his hat, is surprised by it, and gets mad and stomps it down on the ground.

@ berserker
Shut up. I'm writing one now.

 

[Berserker.]

Herp derp, no reply ?

That was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAn awesome moveset of WAAAluigi even though I don't like him. Good job GW

 

[Johnknight1]

@ berserker
I love your assessment, and agree with most of it. The big questions are obviously the "new franchises" and "old franchises" that are owned by Nintendo (1st or 2nd party), and which characters will get in, if any, that fit under both of those categories.

My one big disagreement is Fire Emblem. Because Fire Emblem is a lot more character-driven that other franchises. It also has a lot more "main characters" (due to nearly each Fire Emblem game having different main characters/Lords). I think it could "deserve" a 3rd or even a 4th character. Many of these Lords have become quite popular.

Given Fire Emblem 13's huge sales in Japan (it's nearing the sales of Skyward Sword in the country) and the DLC making all the re-appearing Lords again more popular, I think 4 Fire Emblem playable characters would be fitting. This is especially true since Roy was cut from Brawl and was playable in Melee.

Edit: I like how the response you are looking for does not warrant a response!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Other than Roy not being replaced by Ike, it's good.

Ike just got in first, Roy was not a replacement.

The only replacement is one of the two Pokemon characters(Lucario or PT) replaced Pichu. That was it.

 

[Johnknight1]

I always felt Pikachu replaced Pichu. Quite frankly, Pikachu's strengths and play style is very and eerily similar to Pichu's in Melee. It's kinda weird, and yet strangely cool.

Speaking of which, I'm still all for an original and ultimate risk Pichu being playable in smash. That would be so incredibly amazing!

 

[Berserker.]

I honestly thought, through out this thread... We've been neglecting some things Sakurai said regarding Smash 4. Time to rebold some important points regarding Smash 4.

- There's a lot of implied differences between the 3DS and WiiU versions. The issue of limitations (or lack thereof) come up ("I could make 50 characters, or double the stages, or make everything prettier (graphically), but with the WiiU I don't have to choose just one of those options")

- Iwata mentions that he likes how in Smash, both high level and beginner level players can feel a sense of accomplishment in comparison to other fighting games. If you don't know what you're doing in other fighting games, you'll typically get destroyed, in Smash you can earn a few more hits. Sakurai adds onto that saying "You'd think it'd be natural to help new players improve, but when the goal of a fighting game is to beat your opponent down, that becomes difficult." Iwata "feels helpless and weak when he loses badly," and lastly Sakurai adds that "the 3DS version will have ways to help beginner players," going on to suggest co-op "There will be a reward system for good players helping bad ones"

Apparently the balancing and rebalancing of characters was entirely up to Sakurai, but he's going to ask for some help from other members of the team this time around. He still feels the creator of the game will have the clearest vision of how the balance should look like, but definitely welcomes the help. Iwata asks what type of balancing he's referring to, and Sakurai responds talking about balancing animation/frame/hitbox data, while making sure it makes sense in the scope of the game. It has to "look natural and feels good to land the attack"

- There's implied distinction between casual and competitive play made by Sakurai, saying "all these claims of 'this character is too strong' or 'this character is too weak' varies from person to person." When he looked at the sets of data from Wifi games, all characters had relatively the same level of success. "However, according to the competitive scene, that doesn't seem to be the case elsewhere."

- A balance regarding the difficulties of surgical balance changes, and how they don't want characters to "feel the same," adding that specific traits/strengths/weaknesses are intentionally built to differentiate characters. Along with the "oh now that we nerfed this, this other thing is broken," etc. Iwata comments that this type of balancing is ridiculously hard and congratulates Sakurai for pulling it off with every single character by himself.

- Sakurai mentions that while new developers might see this initially as a learning opportunity, it'll eventually turn into a lesson of pain.

- More commentary regarding the extreme level of difficulty regarding balance vs uniqueness in a fighting game cast, with Iwata joking that "I knew I had an eye for talent when I picked you"

- Apparently Sakurai had no direct involvement with either Sonic's or Link's implementation in Brawl.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That has been known for some time, but still interessting nonetheless.

 

[Big-Cat]

I can understand having no involvement with Sonic's design (and probably why he's so boring), but a complete lack of involvement with Link is very strange.

Got another question for you guys. Which would you rather have? The current roster sent back to the drawing board with all of them given refreshed playstyles (like new normals/specials here and there) and add six characters OR would you keep them the same (bar balance changes) and add ten new characters?

 

[Berserker.]

I can understand having no involvement with Sonic's design (and probably why he's so boring), but a complete lack of involvement with Link is very strange.

Got another question for you guys. Which would you rather have? The current roster sent back to the drawing board with all of them given refreshed playstyles (like new normals/specials here and there) and add six characters OR would you keep them the same (bar balance changes) and add ten new characters?

Errrr.......

Honestly, I'll just keep them the same and add more characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Essentially, what I'm doing now. Just popping in the say Waa then popping back out.

Also, thanks John and berserker!

 

[Zap tackle]

New Mario Game
Retro SF/FZ/Whatever Game
Miyamoto IP
Pikmin 3

is this all we know about E3 this year? AND WILL IT STREAM ONLINE???

I'm fairly sure that it is safe to add a new Mario spin-off to that list. Most Super Mario games are generally paired up with one in the E3 anyways.

 

[Baskerville]

I can understand having no involvement with Sonic's design (and probably why he's so boring), but a complete lack of involvement with Link is very strange.

Got another question for you guys. Which would you rather have? The current roster sent back to the drawing board with all of them given refreshed playstyles (like new normals/specials here and there) and add six characters OR would you keep them the same (bar balance changes) and add ten new characters?

Agreed in bold. I don't like the idea of 6 newcomers though.

 

[Berserker.]

I think Sakurai could do both adding 10 or even more newcomers plus refreshing the playstyles of each character. Doesn't matter if the team he's given is lackluster in numbers like what he said. Just expect a long development

 

[Deleted member]

Got another question for you guys. Which would you rather have? The current roster sent back to the drawing board with all of them given refreshed playstyles (like new normals/specials here and there) and add six characters OR would you keep them the same (bar balance changes) and add ten new characters?

- Brawl Roster
- Toad
- King K. Rool
- Mewtwo
- Takamaru
- Mii
- Mega Man

Yeah, I like the refresh roster option. Plus it does away with clones for good.

 

[Sage of Ice]

I can understand having no involvement with Sonic's design (and probably why he's so boring), but a complete lack of involvement with Link is very strange.

Got another question for you guys. Which would you rather have? The current roster sent back to the drawing board with all of them given refreshed playstyles (like new normals/specials here and there) and add six characters OR would you keep them the same (bar balance changes) and add ten new characters?

if it ain't broke...

 

[Oasis_S]

Only 10?

 

[Berserker.]

Only 10?

I noticed that too ._.

But, I didn't care anyway. I only want 3 characters anyway for Brawl (Toad, Shulk and Bandana Dee) plus Ridley.

So.... Can anyone share their opinion regarding my thoughts on representation in SSB 4? No one really minded. Lol