New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Arcadenik]

LOL. Bowser Jr., a character who looks too much like Baby Bowser, has LESS in common with Bowser than a cat and an anthromorphic wolf?

All I am saying is that Bowser Jr. is likely going to be a clone if he is added in the last minute. And you seriously think Sakurai cares about all that? He made Toon Link a ****ing clone despite having a stupid hammer and a leaf and the power to split into four Links (as a Final Smash). Sakurai won't care if Bowser Jr. have small claws and breath small fireballs and cannot throw his weight around like "Papa". He most certainly won't care if he has a paintbrush. All he has to do is take a look at Bowser Jr. and think "Hey! He could be a Bowser clone if we need to add more characters to buff the roster" and hold him off until he is faced with time constraints again.

Denial, thy name is GoldenYuiitusin.

 

[Metal Overlord]

This argument

And Bowser Jr. honestly isn't all that interesting to me. Yeah, he's got a paintbrush, so what. Big whoop. I have nothing against him, but Toad FTW

Now if we were talking about the Koopalings...

 

[Deleted member]

Kind of an old source (Still legit though). It was back in the early parts of the new SSB4 thread. Maybe it's in the SSB4 dojo/links

Meh. I don't think so. He can't have the super jump punch or even a missile charge of some sort. The only thing that can possibly the same is the fireball/iceball which actually sounds interesting.

Up B: Super Jump
Side B: *Something*
B: Fireball/Iceball
Down B: *Something*

Oh and, Toad can manipulate spores and mushrooms and all that. Was shown in Melee, brawl and Sports mix (Spin off).

And why can't he Super Jump Punch? Does he not lack the ability to punch? Can he not jump just like Mario or Luigi, based on Blue Toad and Yellow Toad?
And while I said "Unique Side B", as even the Bros. have something unique from the other, to say Toad can't charge like a missile is stupid. Especially when you consider what Arcadenik has as his Side B (charging up with a Mario Kart Mushroom, then charging forward). While Luigi is the only one who has done it, it doesn't mean he's the only one who can.

And I love how you ignored me saying "Unique Down B, Side B, and Final Smash". Those would be filled with the mushroom powers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hahaha. Refusal to refute people's points and go to ad hominem attacks game, huh?

Seriously, prove him wrong instead of attacking him. He's completely right, Arc.

Bowser Jr. has just as much chance of not being a clone as he is a clone.

I'd rather have a character in because they could be interesting, not because "they won't be a clone". It's why I prefer Bowser Jr./Shadow Mario over Toad. Toad is lacking in a lot of unique moves as is that only he can do. Jr. is actually less clone-worthy than Toad is anyway. Oh, how ironic.

 

[Berserker.]

And why can't he Super Jump Punch? Does he not lack the ability to punch? Can he not jump just like Mario or Luigi, based on Blue Toad and Yellow Toad?

Honestly... Feh. It is possible.

And while I said "Unique Side B", as even the Bros. have something unique from the other, to say Toad can't charge like a missile is stupid. Especially when you consider what Arcadenik has as his Side B (charging up with a Mario Kart Mushroom, then charging forward). While Luigi is the only one who has done it, it doesn't mean he's the only one who can.

Anything is possible. I guess *Looks up*.

Plus, the Kart idea is different from the missile. I think it's more comparable to Wario's bike except with charging.

And I love how you ignored me saying "Unique Down B, Side B, and Final Smash". Those would be filled with the mushroom powers.

I don't know why I ignored that. Lol. Just felt like blurting stuff out.

Bowser Jr. has just as much chance of not being a clone as he is a clone.

I don't think that's what he's trying to prove here. He's trying to prove that Jr. and Bowser are less-clone likely than Meowth and Mewtwo. I'm just lulzing around


HF, Arca, GY keep the name-calling, strong stuff to zero please.

We shud all luv each other and be freeeends. Right Metal?

 

[Metal Overlord]

Am I the only one who finds it annoying how people keep saying "well, he could be a clone if he's a last-minute add-on character"?

Of course berserker

 

[Berserker.]

less clone-worthy

YEAH.... Jr. is unique with the paintbrush and all but that's not the main spotlight for Jr. What makes him "Bowser Jr." is that he's a mini Bowser and that's about it.

And how Toad is seen as, he's the "Cowardly hero" or "The helper". Of course, he's not known for being "The Mushroombender". Lol.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Arcadenik faces Golden again.

This will be fun.

*Grabs wee popcorns*

 

[Deleted member]

Hypocracy, thy name is Arcadenik.

I'm not even going to bother continuing this one. Arcadenik will just keep his head up his *** and ignore me anyway. I'll let the fool believe what he wants to beleive.
It will help prevent me from losing whatever sanity I have left.

And the way I see it, here are the possible outcomes:
1. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is playable and not unique. Arcadenik wins.
2. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is playable and unique. Everybody wins.
3. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins. (No one can prove that Jr. would be a clone or not if he's not in, can they?)
4. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is playable and unique. I win.
5. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is playable and not unique. Everybody loses.
6. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins.
7. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is unique. No one wins.
8. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is not unique. No one wins.
9. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins.

Super Special 10. Sakurai says "**** you" to both Toad and Jr. and Dr. Mario returns or Waluigi is playable. .

Only time will tell.

 

[Berserker.]

Calling him fool will just provoke him to reply back to you (Unsure).

And the answer to all debates is

Only time can tell

 

[Opossum]

11. They add in Buzzy Beetle who is not unique, and Jr. and Toad aren't playable. Sakurai wins.


But in all seriousness, I'd be fine with either or both characters. I'd prefer Toad, though, but not by much.

 

[Metal Overlord]

12. Sakurai says "**** everyone" and adds Waluigi. Waluigi wins

 

[Berserker.]

13.) Sakurai says, "**** everyone" and does not add anyone. Period. Sakurai wins

 

[Deleted member]

12. Sakurai says "**** everyone" and adds Waluigi. Waluigi wins

Waluigi likes this.

 

[Lukingordex]

Yeah, only Toad. I feel he is more of a worthy addition when compared to the likes of Bowser Jr. Bowser Jr. looks too much like Bowser that Sakurai could potentially add him as a last minute clone. My reasoning is based on Sakurai's history of adding last minute clones who usually look too similar to the original characters. Anyone who thinks otherwise are in denial. Yeah, sure Bowser Jr. doesn't fight like Bowser do in the games but Sakurai won't give a ****.

Bowser Jr. has a lot of differences than Bowser. He can be character with medium weight,something like Diddy Kong or Lucas.

Also,his Final Smash can be his copter,why not?

He has a lot of potential to become a SSB4 character,believe me.

The question is: Sakura think that too?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Hypocracy, thy name is Arcadenik.

I'm not even going to bother continuing this one. Arcadenik will just keep his head up his *** and ignore me anyway. I'll let the fool believe what he wants to beleive.
It will help prevent me from losing whatever sanity I have left.

And the way I see it, here are the possible outcomes:
1. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is playable and not unique. Arcadenik wins.
2. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is playable and unique. Everybody wins.
3. Toad is playable and unique, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins. (No one can prove that Jr. would be a clone or not if he's not in, can they?)
4. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is playable and unique. I win.
5. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is playable and not unique. Everybody loses.
6. Toad is playable and not unique, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins.
7. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is unique. No one wins.
8. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is not unique. No one wins.
9. Toad is not playable, and Jr. is not playable. No one wins.

Super Special 10. Sakurai says "**** you" to both Toad and Jr. and Dr. Mario returns or Waluigi is playable. .

Only time will tell.

14. Neither are playable, and Paper Mario is playable and unique. Johnknight and I win.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I don't really like the idea of Waluigi being a Mario rep (still better than Daisy), but he'd be awesome as a Wario rep. Maybe if there really ever were a Super Wario Bros.-type of game, the game could focus on Wario and Waluigi doing various tasks for money (like Team Chaotix)? Better yet, since they're neutral, you could have them doing stuff like robbing banks, rigging a minigame to work in their favor and other stuff that ne'er-do-wells like them do

 

[Deleted member]

11. They add in Buzzy Beetle who is not unique, and Jr. and Toad aren't playable. Sakurai wins.

Sorry Poppy, this is 11...

I don't really like the idea of Waluigi being a Mario rep (still better than Daisy), but he'd be awesome as a Wario rep. Maybe if there really ever were a Super Wario Bros.-type of game, the game could focus on Wario and Waluigi doing various tasks for money (like Team Chaotix)? Better yet, since they're neutral, you could have them doing stuff like robbing banks, rigging a minigame to work in their favors and other stuff that ne'er-do-wells like them do

I would frigging LOVE that. I swear, a petition should be made.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

I've always meant to ask you, Metal. Why do you hate Daisy so?

 

[BirthNote]

Bowser Jr. has a lot of differences than Bowser. He can be character with medium weight,something like Diddy Kong or Lucas.

Also,his Final Smash can be his copter,why not?

He has a lot of potential to become a SSB4 character,believe me.

The question is: Sakura think that too?

I think his copter would be better as an upB. That alone would make him stand out from his dad, and they shouldn't stop there.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Sorry Poppy, this is 11...

Yeah, I saw that. I changed mine to 14.

 

[Baskerville]

Arcadenik faces Golden again.

This will be fun.

*Grabs wee popcorns*

Well, might as well join in to. =/
*grabs your popcorn.*
EDIT: Oh wait, its over. =P

 

[SmashChu]

From this information, I would assess some things.

1. That this does not bode well for Golden Sun and Starfy.
2. That we will only see 14 newcomers at most for Smash 4 (my guess is Mewtwo and Roy returning, plus 12 "true" newcomers).

14 isn't a surprise. Melee had 13 and Brawl had 15. Things may change. This was in 2008 where no new Smash brothers game was coming out. It does kind of confirm my theory that they tend to go with Nintendo 1st party series over 2nd party.

But, there have been some more games since Brawl.
Xenoblade
Rhythm Heaven
and a new Punch Out game, as well as more of the Wii series.

We''ll have to wait and see. It's only about a month away.

 

[Metal Overlord]

@Breadbug- 1. Her annoying voice
2. Waluigi might be unoriginal, but at least he has some actual personality and likeability unlike Daisy. There's NOTHING interesting or unique about her. "AHURRR IM A TOMBOY" don't cut it for me

Only thing she's good for is Daisy's Cruiser in Mario Kart Double Dash (and I think Mario Kart 7)

@Golden- I even have some more random ideas for it. The game would be sort of a sandbox game, because the game would be about doing random missions for whatever reason (usually money). When you fail a mission in Super Wario Bros., the Game Over screens (depending on what mission you failed) would show a cutscene of Wario and Waluigi in handcuffs arguing with each other or the two fighting each other in a cartoony manner. There could even be an optional mission (just because Wario and Waluigi are so BAD) where Waluigi could summon a Petey Piranha plant or unleash a Chomp Chomp to terrorize a nearby city (just for the hell of it). Or does that particular mission go too far?

 

[Deleted member]

Lol that is hilarious. If anything, we should make the game as a project.

But the Petey Pirahna thing or the Chain Chomp may be too far...

 

[Starphoenix]

14 isn't a surprise. Melee had 13 and Brawl had 15. Things may change. This was in 2008 where no new Smash brothers game was coming out. It does kind of confirm my theory that they tend to go with Nintendo 1st party series over 2nd party.

But, there have been some more games since Brawl.
Xenoblade
Rhythm Heaven
and a new Punch Out game, as well as more of the Wii series.

We''ll have to wait and see. It's only about a month away.

We've also had a new Golden Sun and Sin and Punishment. Not saying they are the most successful series, but they are new games in existing franchises none the less. Certainly more than F-Zero or Star Fox have had since Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Depends on how you count StarFox 64 3D.

And then there's the rumors of a F-Zero for the Wii U and Retro Studios making a new StarFox...

 

[Metal Overlord]

Damn Star! Nice avi

Retro Studios making Star Fox Wii U would be badass. Though honestly I think that they'll just stick to making Metroid/DK games

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

We've also had a new Golden Sun and Sin and Punishment. Not saying they are the most successful series, but they are new games in existing franchises none the less. Certainly more than F-Zero or Star Fox have had since Brawl.

Don't forget Starfy as well, his fifth game came after Brawl, hehe.

(-l3l-);

But I really hate this NSMB-spamming Nintendo's doing. I wanna create Mario Cycle akin to Sonic Cycle.

1. New Mario-sidescroller is announced

2.Fans get their hopes up and think it will be a definitive Mario-game which will be all new with designs and enemies and whatnot.

3. It's shown to be a mere sequel to NSMB or similar, with LAZY EFFORT, LOW BUDGET, SAME OLD ENEMIES, DESIGNS AND STORY. And some nostalgia drawer to cater at hardcore fans which fails miserable in the game (Yoshi-stages only Yoshi in NSMBWii and nerfed Tanooki Suit in 3D Land which doesn't even live up to it's name.)

4.Millions and billions of casual people eat the game up and Nintendo earns loads and loads cash. Hardcore fans swear they won't believe on Nintendo ever again for making a proper and boundary-breaking definitive Mario-game since Super Mario World.

Yeah.

 

[Starphoenix]

Depends on how you count StarFox 64 3D.

And then there's the rumors of a F-Zero for the Wii U and Retro Studios making a new StarFox...

"New" games. I think Star Fox 64 3D does not really qualify as a new game as usually defined.

Also, I HIGHLY highly doubt Retro Studio's is doing a new Star Fox. The people Retro Studios have been hiring for their mystery project do not make sense with a Star Fox project. Their new game appears to be some kind of action/adventure title. More then likely they are getting to do their own project, finally. As for F-Zero Wii U that was only Miyamto saying it could happen if he could find some type of new gameplay experience with the hardware.

 

[Pachinkosam]

12. Sakurai says "**** everyone" and adds Waluigi. Waluigi wins

 

[Big-Cat]

The character part certainly helps the case for no cuts and Mewtwo/Roy. Also explains why we had the Forbidden Seven. I think it's a little silly that GS and Starfy were deemed unworthy, but that means that Sakurai has high standards (certainly doesn't help the Mario newcomers) and looks at the character of characters (betting that's one of the main reasons we got Lucario and Ike).

Here's an interesting about AC and Pikmin compared to GS and Starfy. The latter have never appeared on a console game, but I don't think that means much.

Hell, I'm more worried about the gameplay. Not that I care about those other players who harass players who take smash bros seriously but still something to worry about since the gameplay is like the base of a pizza.

Take Skullgirls for example with their intense gameplay yet light content. The game still got high ratings (80%). Then again, it's not a fan service game. In the fan service game, you gotta go above he normal expectations.

What do you mean it's no a fanservice game? Have you not seen Filia's Cerebella's, and Parasoul's gratuitous, glorious panty shots? lol jk, but you are right, but I wish you weren't at the same time regarding fan service games. For fan service games, people are going to be looking at the quantity of the content and not the quality. You might have the next Melee on your hands in terms of gameplay significance, but casuals are going to be looking for all the fan service. There needs to be a balance.

This little video conference we got shows that their will be Patches for Mario Kart 7! This bodes well for Smash Bros in the future when they watch online matches of DDD infiniting every character.

Or, you know, they could've add tech grabs and made it where you can't grab opponents in hitstun.

This is why I think Zero Suit Samus is an "adjective character" done right. Power Suit Samus and Zero Suit Samus may be the same person but they both look radically different from each other that it's only fitting that they have different movsets. Young Link and Toon Link will never be unique. That's why I want Masked Link. How can you make Link clones out of a Deku Scrub, a Goron, and a Zora? Ganondorf as a Captain Falcon clone, however, is "doing it wrong".

Toon Link can easily be unique, what are you talking about?

Arcadenik faces Golden again.

This will be fun.

*Grabs wee popcorns*

Glad the SmashChu vs. KumaOso saga has come to a close.

Assuming we're looking at 14 newcomers (technically 12 if you count Mewtwo and Roy), here's my list.
[COLLAPSE="14 Newcomers"]

1. Mewtwo
2. Roy
3. Ridley
4. Toad
5. Krystal
6. Little Mac
7. Palutena
8. Isaac
9. Saki
10. Lip
11. Tom Nook
12. Shulk
13. Duck Hunt Dog
14. Megaman

I get the feeling that Dixie and K. Rool will make it though so that'll be 16. 17 if you replace Sheik with Impa.
[/COLLAPSE]
The more I think about it, I'm wondering if we don't need a larger roster, just a refresh/revamp of the returning veterans. Give them some new things. Characters like DK, Falco, Wolf (give him some John Talbain stuff), Toon Link, Samus, Zelda, and Ganondorf are easy examples. Not only that, but if there are new mechanics added in like Tekken-style chains similar to PM Lucario, jump canceling, supers, etc., that's enough to have a new roster altogether. The changes in Project M are a prime example. Speaking of which, I was surprised to learn that Parasoul's Napalm Shots function very similar to PM Zelda's Din's Fire except you don't have as much freedom in placing your shots.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is a larger picture of Roy's re-design.

The reaction to Roy's re-design has been extremely positive, with many people saying that The Last Story's character designer should one day do a FE game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Am I the only one getting a pseudo-Code Geass vibe from his new design? Other than that, I think it's truly, truly, truly outrageous.

 

[Conviction]

That design is just too good.

I wish there was a poster of it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Just, dayum dayum dayum. Roy looks so...

Gauuh, what's wrong of my favourites getting this sort of awesome makeover in Sm4sh? I want Lip to look as bad.

Toad too.

Saki as well.

 

[ChronoBound]

Am I the only one getting a pseudo-Code Geass vibe from his new design? Other than that, I think it's truly, truly, truly outrageous.

That is funny considering that Jun Fukuyama voiced both Roy and the main protagonist from Code Geass.

 

[GiantBreadbug]

Okay, I need to get this out in the open:

That bit that Chrono dug up with the Sakurai Famitsu interview makes me awfully sore toward the man as a developer. I could post an unbridled rant, but I think this method will be more effective in getting my point across.

Here are some of the more telling blurbs:

- Even though fans want a bigger roster, it took all of the development team's hardest efforts to get 39 characters into the game.

This is partially due to the massive scale of the game, but also due to how limited the Wii was in its resources. From a technical standpoint, the same problem shouldn't be a terrible issue with the Wii U. In fact, Sakurai has already mentioned something about how he could make the Wii U version have 50 characters rather nonchalantly.

- Nintendo has not created many new character-based series since Melee, so it is hard for Sakurai to add more meaningful characters. He is against adding unimportant characters just to beef up the roster count.

Wrong in two ways.

1) Drill Dozer, Chibi Robo, Starfy, Golden Sun, WarioWare, Elite Beat Agents. These are games that are not only great games, but also have characters that are meaningful to Nintendo. They were all featured as either trophies or ATs, so Sakurai clearly acknowledges them. In the case of WarioWare, it was not represented with a playable character that originated in the series. In addition, there are several series that don't yet have playable characters that were introduced before Brawl (Sin & Punishment, Many Retro Series, Animal Crossing [will be addressed later], Miis, etc.).

2) Doesn't want to add unimportant characters to buff up the roster? Dr. Mario. Bam.

- Because of this, if there is to be a SSB4, Sakurai does not think there will be a lot of new characters.

Seriously, though, this is awful. Take all of the series I mentioned above, plus these that have been introduced post/mid-Brawl: Xenoblade, Rhythm Heaven, New Punch-Out!!, New Sin & Punishment, New Kid Icarus, Rolling Western, Layton (third party, but the series is Nintendo-exclusive), Whatever Miyamoto's new project is, etc. What's sad is that all of the aforementioned series will probably take backseat to characters from already-included series.

- Sakurai realizes that making a fourth Smash Bros. will be very difficult. He will not be able to use Brawl's data to assist him because the assets will be too outdated for a high-definition console.

Not going to disagree, it will be super difficult. But with a powerful platform and a reasonably sized development team, it can be done.

- He will have to do something drastically different for SSB4 so it stands apart from the last game. He will not just add to Brawl.

I really appreciate this maxim he holds. It's really something that I admire about him. But he does need to realize that there is nothing wrong with adding lots of new content. It's a sequel, after all.

- Pikmin and Animal Crossing are the only Nintendo series introduced since 2001 that Sakurai feels are worthy of being given playable characters. With that said, Animal Crossing characters are too far removed from Smash Bros.' violent image. Sakurai jokes that he could have added an Animal Crossing character with a net and shovel.

Gonna go ahead and warn you that this could be influenced by AC bias, but here we go. CHARACTERS THAT MAKE GOOD SMASH BROS. CHARACTERS ARE NOT LIMITED TO THOSE WHO ARE "VIOLENT" OR FEATURED IN "VIOLENT" NATURED GAMES. We can have a fun little fist fight about this, but previous inclusions, and other statements made by Sakurai himself say so. The atmosphere of Smash Bros. isn't predominately "violent." It's meant to be a crazy, fun, free-for-all. That doesn't mean that only punching, kicking, shooting characters have a place. What confuses me is that Sakurai has made statements that echo this, and yet he says an Animal Crossing character makes no sense. This is not only unfortunate for AC fans, but fans of many series that are beloved by the Nintendo fandom that don't "fit the Smash Bros. atmosphere."

I love Sakurai to death, but some of the things he says are incongruous to what he actually does. What's even sadder is that there's this feeling of "boo hoo there aren't any new series that could have playable characters in SSB4, baw haw Nintendo keeps releasing the same games," when there are so many great characters that have been introduced over the past few years. Yet, whenever these are brought up, they get the "ohh that's dumb we should have [character from existing series] first."

An example would be Jill from Drill Dozer. She is one of the most personality-packed characters introduced in the GBA era, and has some of the most unique moveset potential ever. She rides in a giant freaking drill. Yet you won't find her on most rosters people make. The same people who raise hell about how there aren't any good new series are the same people who say that a new Zelda character makes more sense than someone like Jill. Hm. Odd.

And don't get me started with Animal Crossing. Great series, absolutely integral to Nintendo, and doesn't get a playable character because it isn't violent enough. Okay. Mr. G&W, R.O.B.? Why were they added? Because they're important to Nintendo, not because they're good fighters. The same principle should apply to any other series that isn't particularly "violent." And we could argue all day about what "violence" constitutes, but I shall not go there for now.

Fffffffffffff, not really wanting to do this argument thing right now, just saw that thing Chorno dug up and needed to vent.

 

[Big-Cat]

That is funny considering that Jun Fukuyama voiced both Roy and the main protagonist from Code Geass.

Yeah, I know. I wonder if that may have influenced his design in some way. Then again, Marth looks like a CLAMP character now with those noodle limbs.

 

[---]

It was artist who did The Last Story? Last night I accidently said Pandora's Tower. My bad.

It's still a little odd that the redesign only appears in said DLC chapter, and not in any others. We also don't know if they keep it when you recruit them. So they probably don't mean anything in the end, but like everyone else, I want that version of Roy in Smash. BD