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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Luco

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*breathe in, breathe out*

Relevant to the third party's interests. You guys seem to think that just because Nintendo is willing to pull forgotten favorites from the depths of their history means that third parties will, too. Guest characters are a completely different game, and money is the way they keep score.
Ristar.... :(

Actually i'd have to agree with shortie on something like this: I wouldn't have brought money in to the equation. It dampens just about every discussion like this to a prattle.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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*breathe in, breathe out*

Relevant to the third party's interests. You guys seem to think that just because Nintendo is willing to pull forgotten favorites from the depths of their history means that third parties will, too. Guest characters are a completely different game, and money is the way they keep score.
Whether or not Geno is owned by Square, he is still a Mario character. If Square is indeed one of the companies working on the game I'm sure they could get the character no sweat.

It's not like Square is ever going to use him.

Besides, he was in Mario Super Saga, which Square had no part in. I'm sure Nintendo didn't pay through the nose to add him to that

He's not a guest, he's a Mario character. He's just in a unique situation.
 

Wave-Guiding Hero

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Relevent to what?

To modern games?

Relevance is not the end all be all determining factor for a character getting into smash.

I thought brawl, even melee to an extent proved that, offering very little relevant characters to games at that time
Nintendo can choose characters from left field because it's their game with filled with their characters. Because they already have characters like Mario, Link and Pikachu in it, most of their mainstream games are represented so they can bring in characters like Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch.

Third-party companies only get one character to showcase (if Brawl is anything to go by) so it's obvious that they'd pick a very mainstream and recognizable character. While Geno is associated with Nintendo and (apparently) has a fanbase, it's really unlikely he'll be chosen because he's practically unknown in the current state of gaming.

At least that's my two cents.
 

Phostopheles

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Ristar.... :(

Actually i'd have to agree with shortie on something like this: I wouldn't have brought money in to the equation. It dampens just about every discussion like this to a prattle.
Why, because it cuts too close to the truth? Cross-party characters are always a business investment, not a popularity contest.

Whether or not Geno is owned by Square, he is still a Mario character. If Square is indeed one of the companies working on the game I'm sure they could get the character no sweat.

It's not like Square is ever going to use him.

Besides, he was in Mario Super Saga, which Square had no part in. I'm sure Nintendo didn't pay through the nose to add him to that

He's not a guest, he's a Mario character. He's just in a unique situation.
He's a Mario character in the same sense as Goombella, or Vivian, or Lakitu. Actually, Lakitu has even more relevance to the Mario franchise than Geno. FREAKIN' LAKITU.
 

Luco

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No, because money only makes disagreements. I've seen many an argument on this thread turn in to pages full of posts about money and ratings. Contrary to popular belief, it seems money can be argued on. And thats because a lot of people don't know the real numbers. I'm just saying...
 

Johnknight1

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Of course Square Enix gets a say, they're the ones lending copyright to Nintendo, not the other way around. They can always decline if it doesn't represent them or their character they way they want. And why would SE want to plug an obsolete relic of a character when there are Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts games to advertise? Snake was added because he is the definitive Konami hero, has a history built on Nintendo platforms, and had a game coming out. Sonic was added because he is the definitive Sega hero, has a history as a rival with Nintendo platforms, and had recently made peace with Nintendo and was undergoing a revival. Geno has none of this. He is not a definitive Square hero, he does not have a history with Nintendo beyond being a one-shot sidekick, and excepting a small nod in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga he has shown no sign of ever being relevant again.

Great game, cool character, but if you want to play as Geno, go dust off your SMRPG cartridge. Because Smash Geno ain't happening.
Why would Square Enix say no, and why should they feel entitled to tell Nintendo what to do=??? Imagine how p***ed their fans would be if they didn't let Nintendo add Geno, especially since they haven't used him outside of Nintendo games. I certainly would never touch another Square Enix game again (unless they redeemed themselves). They can ask for Slime, but really they can't demand it. It ain't there.

Besides why would they decline letting Geno appear in Smash Bros=??? They already let him cameo in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga about 8 years ago.

Plus Geno is a retro character. That helps his chances. Sakurai loves retro. He is popular in Japan, America, and even Europe (despite Super Mario RPG not coming out there until the Virtual Console). Super Mario RPG is so popular and such a cult classic that it was the 200th released Virtual Console game; I think the 100th was like Super Mario Bros. 3 or some real popular game.

Also, Ice Climbers were in 1 crappy NES game. ROB was a NES accessory and in one mediocre NES game and Mario Kart DS. Pit was in 1 cult classic games and one kinda remake game. Geno definitely fits in the cult classic retro category.

Also, Sora isn't wanted by Smash fans. He hardly has any Nintendo history (one spin-off and one prequel does not really count), whereas Sonic was the eternal rival of Nintendo, and Metal Gear's became hugely popular because it succeed on the NES (even though the MSX1 version was better).
 

Luco

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Yeah i think ROB was created to show America that the famicom was an entertainment system, as in, actually able to bring out games that weren't pong/pacman(although those games are great). Apparently he was a deciding factor for the famicom's popularity. Just a tidbit of info i picked up.
 

Johnknight1

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Isn't the saying 'isn't the be all and end all'? Argghhh i can't remember my sayings. :p

Hmm... To be extremely honest, i never played SMRPG, which means i didn't know of Geno until i started on the smashboards. I don't really have an opinion on the guy.
Play Super Mario RPG, and become Geno-biased like the rest of us. I never beat it until joining Smash Boards, but I had played it, and remembered I liked it about as much as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy IV, V, and VI (which are all great).

Maybe you can become Mallow, Croco, and other Super Mario RPG-character biased as well, lol. >.>

Plus that version of Bowser's Castle rocks (albeit the Forest would be the best stage;
that or the Cloud City).
 

Phostopheles

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Why would Square Enix say no, and why should they feel entitled to tell Nintendo what to do=??? Imagine how p***ed their fans would be if they didn't let Nintendo add Geno, especially since they haven't used him outside of Nintendo games. I certainly would never touch another Square Enix game again (unless they redeemed themselves). They can ask for Slime, but really they can't demand it. It ain't there.
Just because Geno's fanbase is vocal doesn't mean it's particularly large. If I were a developer, I'd be about as afraid of Geno fanrage as I would of stubbing my toe. Including Geno benefits no one except a small group of selfish, deluded manchildren.

Also, this hypothetical situation of yours would never happen. Sakurai may get chatty on occasion, but he's subtle enough to know that leaking negotiations with third parties is a huge no-no. For all we know, a dozen characters were in contention for Brawl.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Like your avi, I'm going to assume you are a troll.

You are, after all, a tingle supporter.
 

Luco

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I see no point in fighting the inevitable. If Zelda gets a new rep, rest assured it's Tingle.
o.O Even i have to agree that's a tad presumptuous. For all we know Ghirahim may get in, or another toon version of someone.

*EDIT* And in case you're wondering about my sig, those are pretty much part of a wishlist. I would've had more, but the sig limit is annoying.
 

ChronoBound

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And he supports Toad over someone more interesting like Geno.

For shame.
Toad is perhaps the most deserving Mario character that is not yet playable in Smash Bros. He was playable in two Mario platformers (Super Mario Bros. 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii) and was the main protagonist of a game (Wario's Woods). Not to mention that he is the only character in Mario Kart that has been playable in every game in the series not yet playable in Smash Bros. Toad is also very marketable and appears in much Mario merchandise. Toad is one of the most iconic characters of the Mario series.
 

Phostopheles

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o.O Even i have to agree that's a tad presumptuous. For all we know Ghirahim may get in, or another toon version of someone.
I think Toon Zelda/Tetra had her chance and lost it. And Ghirahim won't get in for the same reason that Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, and Zant didn't. He simply doesn't have any importance to the franchise beyond Skyward Sword. And if he ever does...then maybe I'm not a Zelda/Smash fan anymore.
 

Oasis_S

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Sure, Toad's popular, but that's not enough for me. He fails hard in the "unique" category compared to his COMPETITION.

I bet Tingle would go against Sakurai's rule of "a character must make people want to play the game."
 

Luco

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I wouldn't say she lost it. If smash comes out as the second wii-U game or something or rather, then nintendo may have to look back a little for potential chars. Not all their characters should come straight out of the 3DS.

But while i see you're point, i have to say i barely knew of tingle before i got on the smashboards. As in, i knew him, but he wasn't particularly relevant to me. And i've played a few retro zelda games in my time.

Also, considering importance, Lucario is only really important to 4th gen, but he was in brawl.
 

ChronoBound

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I think Toon Zelda/Tetra had her chance and lost it. And Ghirahim won't get in for the same reason that Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, and Zant didn't. He simply doesn't have any importance to the franchise beyond Skyward Sword. And if he ever does...then maybe I'm not a Zelda/Smash fan anymore.
To be fair, the Smash fanbase was pretty divided over either Midna or Toon Link being the Zelda newcomer. As we all know, it was Toon Link that got the spot. If Ghirahim does become very popular, he will have practically no competition for a theoretical fifth Zelda spot. Even in Tingle's strongest territory, Japan, there are few requests for him. Toon Zelda's advantage was that Sakurai was considering her for a playable spot in Brawl and her important role in Spirit Tracks. However, since Skyward Sword vastly overshadows Spirit Tracks, I would say Toon Zelda will no longer be a contender for a Zelda newcomer spot once Skyward Sword is released.
 

ToiseOfChoice

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Man, I love watching people talk about character chances like they're stock prices. I bet you guys would go ape for a little news ticker at the bottom of the screen.

I bet Tingle would go against Sakurai's rule of "a character must make people want to play the game."
There's that, plus the fact that people aren't actually bananas about him in Japan.

And Ghirahim won't get in for the same reason that Skull Kid, Vaati, Midna, and Zant didn't. He simply doesn't have any importance to the franchise beyond Skyward Sword.
Son, you're alllllll right.
 

Luco

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Yeah, i can't actually say i honestly believe ghirahim will get in, i'm just saying i'm not so sure about tingle either. For zelda reps, i can't really say i'm sure of who to go to next.
 

Phostopheles

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Sure, Toad's popular, but that's not enough for me. He fails hard in the "unique" category compared to his COMPETITION.

I bet Tingle would go against Sakurai's rule of "a character must make people want to play the game."
B: Dice Block
B>: Golden Mushroom
B^: Super Jump
BV: Pull Turnip

I just pulled that out of my ***, and that's infinitely more interesting than:

B: Splash Paint
B>: Splash Paint
B^: Splash Paint
BV: Change into another Mario clone

To be fair, the Smash fanbase was pretty divided over either Midna or Toon Link being the Zelda newcomer. As we all know, it was Toon Link that got the spot. If Ghirahim does become very popular, he will have practically no competition for a theoretical fifth Zelda spot. Even in Tingle's strongest territory, Japan, there are few requests for him. Toon Zelda's advantage was that Sakurai was considering her for a playable spot in Brawl and her important role in Spirit Tracks. However, since Skyward Sword vastly overshadows Spirit Tracks, I would say Toon Zelda will no longer be a contender for a Zelda newcomer spot once Skyward Sword is released.
Well yeah, but just because the boards are divided on something doesn't mean the argument is relevant. I always knew Midna wouldn't be an option.

Put it to you this way. If you want to increase tingle's popularity, i have no qualms at all. Go out, make a group, make a moveset, increase his popularity, take it to other sites (like what Starpheonix did). I'm simply saying atm his popularity level doesn't seem particularly high to me atm.
HAHAHAHA. You think that Western popularity means anything to the developers? Well, maybe a little, but ultimately we'll just have to come to terms with the reality that a few characters will be added that are ONLY popular in Japan. This has happened in every installment.
 

Luco

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Put it to you this way. If you want to increase tingle's popularity, i have no qualms at all. Go out, make a group, make a moveset, increase his popularity, take it to other sites (like what Starpheonix did). I'm simply saying atm his popularity level doesn't seem particularly high to me atm.

And i'm pretty sure toon zelda/toon tetra was planned for brawl, and the code is in there, it was just never finished(and i hear thats because of time issues). There's a video on it i think.

*EDIT* Oh by all means, in fact one of my fav chars is from japan(Lucas), but from what i've heard is he really that popular in Japan?(No i actually mean that question, i really don't know)
 

Johnknight1

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Just because Geno's fanbase is vocal doesn't mean it's particularly large. If I were a developer, I'd be about as afraid of Geno fanrage as I would of stubbing my toe. Including Geno benefits no one except a small group of selfish, deluded manchildren.
Please, your silly arguments are stupid, troll-worthy, ignorant of facts, and about half a decade old. This post I am quoting did not make a single solid point but an insult at a group of fans without any evidence, any valid opinion, or really anything at all. All you're doing is making yourself look stupid and trolling.

I'll entertain you real quick with some real facts, evidence, and valid points, just to show you how ridiculous you really are.

Several Super Nintendo RPG games and series have huge cult fan bases. EarthBound, the SNES Final Fantasy games, SNES Dragon Warrior/Quest games, Chrono Trigger, and Super Mario RPG. So obviously, Super Mario RPG is in league with many classic RPG's that helped shaped modern RPGs, and has a dedicated cult fan base.

Super Mario RPG also introduced the timed attack aspect of RPGs, which would become a staple of RPGs, future Mario RPG games (both the Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario series), and even Final Fantasy (starting with Final Fantasy VII). It marked RPG turning points for both Nintendo and Square Enix (the Square Soft), where many ideas came to be from this historic game.

Super Mario RPG sold about 1.5 million units in Japan alone (the sales figures in North America are unknown, but likely at least 50% as high) just from the original Super Nintendo release.

That's probably more than any Star Fox game, and definitely more than any F-Zero, Mother/EarthBound, or Fire Emblem game, and more than Gyromite (ROB's sole game), Kid Icarus, and Ice Climber (tell me: what does Ice Climber representation bring=???) sold.

Therefore, if Geno is so irrelevant, what are these characters=??? Why is he more irrelevant than those characters=???

Geno is a Mario character, even if Square Enix owns him. If Nintendo wants him, there is no reason Square Enix won't add him. They might say "hey, can you add Slime or a specific Final Fantasy character," but that's about it.. So stop treating him like he's in the same boat as Mega Man, Pac-Man, or Sonic (besides, if Nintendo asked for them, those respective companies would say yes too; Sega already did).

Sakurai has already tried to add music from Super Mario RPG in Brawl ("Beware the Forest Mushrooms"), and many of Peach's attacks as well as much of her fighting style in smash bros comes from Super Mario RPG. Super Mario RPG was the first game in which Bowser was playable (many of his moves come from this game as well), and the second in which Peach was playable (the first was Super Mario Bros. 2).

As you can see, Super Mario RPG has a lasting legacy.

Please stop arguing points without evidence. If you don't like Geno, that's fine, and you can express that; we can respect that. But please, leave this nonsense insults out of this thread, and out of smashboards.
 

Oasis_S

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B: What would that even do.
B>: What would that even do again.
B^: Mario.
BV: Peach.

All of Toad's normals: Boring ol' punches, kicks, and headbutts.


Junior has him beat.
 

Johnknight1

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Man, I love watching people talk about character chances like they're stock prices. I bet you guys would go ape for a little news ticker at the bottom of the screen.
That's because in many ways they are. There are constantly good stocks that haven't been in yet (Dixie Kong, Paper Mario, Ridley), and then there are the crazy choices (mostly retro). The Balloon Fighters, the Takamaru's, the Sukapon's, the Geno's, the Mach Rider, the *insert any 5th Generation Pokémon*, and the Bubbles' of the world. These things have no predictable chance or chances that we can measure.

Plus I am a business major, so I probably argue chances like one.
 

Luco

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Look at me, i've let myself drawn in to an argument i never intended to get involved with. :-P

Anyway, my main point is, i don't think we should be particularly presumptuous about chars for SSB4. While some definitely look good, we should still be wary of who we believe are shoe-ins. Thats something most of us here agree on.

And i have to go soon. Remember, when it comes to arguments here, there's no hard feelings involved. IMO don't dislike a person cause you disagree. Shortie and I have disagreed on plenty of things, but we're still friends.

For that last paragraph, you probably already know that, but it's nice to have it up anyway.

Cya guys! ^^
 

Johnknight1

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Self-explanatory. Still trying to fit Nintendo logic to non-Nintendo characters.
You are the dumbest troll since that stupid anti-Squirtle pro-Lucario thread guy and that fool who bet me $50 that Diddy Kong wouldn't be in Brawl (I've never lost a bet; I bet $50 on the New York Giants in Super Bowl XLII, and made a hefty profit from Vegas).

You aren't even debating the argument; all you're doing is throwing insults.

Nintendo already got the rights to him for a friggen cameo. Why the heck would a company that loves publicity as much as Square Enix (and also likes to super hype things) suddenly say no=???

If Geno is in smash, sales for Super Mario RPG will go up.
If sales for Super Mario RPG goes up, Square Enix makes money.
It really is that simple, specially if Geno is in another game, there is another Super Mario RPG game, or Geno makes a more important appearance in the Mario & Luigi RPG series, or even appears in Paper Mario (which actually originally was going to be called "Super Mario RPG 2" until Square Enix said they owned the rights to the game's name).

You aren't contributing anything to the debate, and you're acting like I'm the noob when you are the noob to such discussions. I'm not saying Geno is a shoe-in, I'm not even saying he has a 50/50 chance, but I am saying there are signs that he clearly does have a chance. I've said that same thing since before Brawl came out with Brawl.

I don't mind you respectfully disagreeing with me or not seeing eye to eye with me, but that does not give you the right to act like a selfish bigot.
 

Johnknight1

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No, you're convinced that they are because you've been reading threads like this for so long. People have these massive knee-jerk reactions to stuff that flies under Sakurai's -- actually, everyone else's radar entirely.
Well they are like stock prices... but not yet. Once we gets characters and rumors in due time, they will be, especially since the roster will probably get leaked early just like Melee's and Brawl's roster did... >.> The question is which "leaked roster" is the real one. Ironically in the pre-Brawl days there was a roster that guessed every character in Brawl right (minus ROB though)-albeit had 45 characters. Once we saw ROB, we knew the other roster (the 39 man roster with more accurate character descriptions) was right. There were clues the 39 man roster was right, specifically the Lucario in, Mewtwo out, and even some of the details around some newcomers that were dead on.

(Also, I was kinda half joking last time... because speculation is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!! >.>)

Anyways, night ya'll.
 

OmegaXXII

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And what will he do for basic attacks, bite people? It's a stupid character with a stupid moveset. I have read your concept and I still refuse to accept it.
Well too bad, I guess Ill never accept Tingle as well, okay maybe not since I at least have logic unlike you.

Did you even read the moveset??

:phone:
 

Browny

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Oh look its that time again

See, this is why I can't take your argument seriously. You know that one wiener who keeps talking about Lucario being more popular than Mewtwo or whatever? You're not nearly as bad as him, but there's definitely a parallel in terms of denial here.
But Lucario IS more popular than mewtwo
http://www.googlebattle.com/?domain=Lucario&domain2=Mewtwo&submit=Go!

Allow me to remind you of something. When Mewtwo was at the peak of his popularity, this would have been around 2001 and he had to share that title with Pikachu, Charizard etc. Pokemon was only played by kids whose parents bought them a gameboy.

Fast forward to 2008, The install base for pokemon has grown ridiculously large, far bigger than before. Many of those from '01 are still playing and there is many times more kids playing it as the games become more popular. Lucario is the #1 mascot char around 2008. He doesnt have to share this with pikachu or other chars anywhere near as much as mewtwo did. Lucario has far more exposure.

So you have a character who is known by MANY more people simply because of the fact that the pokemon audience grows every single day, and he is more popular overall since he is the mascot. Pikachu was the mascot when Mewtwo mattered.

That google battle doesnt lie its just flat out stating the fact: Lucario has more than twice as much presence on the internet than mewtwo. When something has twice as many people talking about it, its fair to say that thing is more popular than another.

If you want to argue that something which is talked about twice as much as another, is actually the least popular of the two, then you need to rethink your strategy. I dont care if Luc is more popular, I main mewtwo in melee, I was pissed he was cut, now I main luc I think im pretty neutral here. I just find it hilarious that people say mewtwo is more popular. Next youll be telling me that the PS3 is more popular than the Wii simply because the PS2 was more popular than the Gamecube rofl.

/me leaves this silly thread.
 

OmegaXXII

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I see no point in fighting the inevitable. If Zelda gets a new rep, rest assured it's Tingle.
You are being hard headed and your arguments are obviously fueled by bias, no facts, logic, evidence whatsoever, You can think all you want but you'll have to face reality sooner or later.

:phone:
 

Hoots

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So people have already devolved back to snippy and catty little arguments and calling each other... weiners... bwahhh(insert Hank Hill reaction image). Well from what I can gather, someone is saying Toad is Awesome and Geno sucks and people are debating about Tingle. Hmmm.

Anyone who doesn't think that Geno doesn't have a chance in hell is simply not read up on the history of Smash/Nintendo. Especially if they want to include a SE character, Geno is certainly possible, especially considering the fact that Western audiences don't really give a **** about Slime and wouldn't want to see a playable Chocobo. Not to mention Geno tied Dedede for most mentions in the Brawl journal. But who knows if Square wants to waste a ridiculous marketing opportunity on an ancient game. Le sigh.

As far as Tingle goes, I really don't understand the hate. Is he a faggy little weirdo that is more annoying than helpful? Yes. HOWEVER, he is the 4th most iconic and reoccuring Zelda character AND has a very easy moveset that would be UNIQUE(which is very important). I would concede Tingle protest MAYBE if people didn't come back with GIRAHIM support. I must be on crazy pills.

:phone:
 
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