Meta Knight Stage Discussion
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Discussion Rules and Format
III. Stages
I-Introduction
Hey everyone, my name is Q77, but just call me Q. Although my post count is nigh, I have been following the forums (mostly Meta Knight) for over a year. The current (if you can even call that) Stage Discussion by Infinity is essentially dead and has not been updated for a LONG time. My goal is to create a complete stage guide of all legal stages, showing WHY each stage is either good or bad for Meta Knight. I will start my guide by taking information on the stages from other threads and combining them, to create a foundation for the guide. I will credit everyone who posts information, or who I have taken previous posted information from.
II-Discussion Rules and Format
Rules:
1- Please keep discussions Stage related. This can be about a character you should counter pick this against, or about what parts of the stage MK excels at. Just keep things relatively on topic
2- No Spam
3- No Flaming, please respond to someone you disagree with appropriately, without the use of cursing or bashing. Please explain why you disagree, and what your thoughts are.
4- Please post information or input on stages with little information. If Smashville has a ton of information post something about another stage to help the guide grow.
Format:
1- Stages will be graded on a non-numbers based scale. It will graded with a general summary of the pros and cons, and who you should take or avoid to this stage. This is because I feel that it is better to know WHY the stage is good over THAT the stage is good.
2- Specific things I am looking for include: Pros, Cons, Recovery, Gimping, Air and Ground game, Camping, Counter-picking, Striking, Banning and Sharking. Those are the few things I thought of at the top of my head, feel free to add anything that is not included above.
3- This will be an open discussion, meaning I don't care what stages you comment on. If everyone is talking about Battlefield, and you have information on Brinstar you would like to share please post it anyways.
4- I will be constantly looking for quality posts to include in the guide. You will be credited for the information you give.
III-Stages
Stage Order
1. Yoshi's Island Brawl
2. Battlefield
3. Smashville
4. Final Destination
5. Lylat Cruise
6. Halberd
7. Pokemon Stadium 1
8. Castle Siege
9. Defino Plaza
10. Brinstar
11. Frigate Orpheon
12. Rainbow Cruise
13. Jungle Japes
14. Pirate Ship
15. PictoChat
16. Pokemon Stadium 2
17. Norfair
18. Luigi's Manison
19. Distant Planet
20. Green Greens
21. Yoshi's Island Melee
22. Port Town Aero Drive
Note: The Stage Summaries are mostly of my analysis. They will be continuously updated when people post more information.
Yoshi's Island
Stage Summary
Yoshi's Island is, in my opinion, one of Meta Knights worse neutrals, for the sole purpose that it provides services to many other characters except Meta Knight. It is slightly harder to gimp at this stage because of the ghosts, and the fact that there is no way under the stage. Both of these elements help many of Meta Knights opponents. However, being a small stage, Meta Knight can play very aggressive. The tilting stage, platform, and maybe the shy guys can interfere with opponents projectiles. Overall, I'd say that there are better neutrals to pick, but Meta Knight is not hurt directly by the stage.
Battlefield
Stage Summary
Battlefield is quite a good stage for Meta Knight. I feel that the platforms work to his advantage due to the fact that if you can get underneath an opponent, you can make it really hard for them to get back to the main level of the stage. Meta Knight can easily fly under the stage if he must, which also means you can force your opponent under the stage if you get the chance. The edges of this stage are outward curves, helping your opponent recover. Grounded shuttle loops from the main level underneath your opponent on the platforms work excellent, and you can usually make it back to the main level with a quick diving glide cancel. I'm still unsure if this, or Smashville is his best neutral.
Smashville
Stage Summary
Smashville is a smaller version of Final Destination with a few minor differences. First of all, there in a moving platform ranging from the far left to the far right. This very key to helping recoveries, camping and avoiding camping. The other important difference is that other character's recoveries will be helped by the edges of the stage not having the gimping lips that stages such as Lylat and Final Destination have. Meta Knight has a few advantages at this stage. He has the ability to fly under the stage. The stage is small, which will help aggressive players keep the pressure on their opponent. Meta Knight can Dair Stage Spike if he hits them into the diagonal edges of the stage. He can also use many of his aerials to force an opponent completely under the stage, resulting in a kill. Overall, a good neutral stage for Meta Knight.
Player Input
Dojo
MK excels here. Getting an opponent off the edge is key to getting kills and racking extra damage. You have a small enough stage, in Smashville, to do this with ease if you know what you're doing. You're allowed enough room to manuever around, and do your thing as well while not off stage.
The moving platform doesn't really hinder his ability to gimp either. You can usually read when an opponent is going to attempt to make it to the platform rather then the ledge, and react accordingly. Most characters have a good bit of lag behind they landing when they recover so you have plenty of time to throw in a shuttle loop or nair to throw them back off again. It also has opportunities to take away from those that like to release grab like Marth and Yoshi.
But even with this, some characters may outclass him here. Diddy and Snake, in particular, can take alot of control on this stage with a flat terrain and a single moving platform, and it may not always be the best stage to take them to, and possibly a few others. There's usually a better option, but it's still definitely one of his better stages to rely on.
dr.mario.guy
Smashville is probably his best neutral. Easy to recover under it if you have to, platform helps MK against campy characters and helps him a lot vs IC's. The platforms also help his gimping game a lot more than they help people recover vs him; you can stand on the platform and drop/jump to where you need to where as a stage like FD you would have to jump a bit further out there and try to judge them well without being able to preserve jumps.
Only person I could see MK not taking to this stage would be Snake, and even then I don't think Snake dominates MK on this stage or anything.
Final Destination
Stage Summary
Final Destination is likely Meta Knight's worst neutral. It's so long and open and gives enemies and easy way to escape the aggression and pressure that MK like to put on his opponents. A few things that MK has going for him include, flying under the stage and the lips on the edges. Many characters get gimped by the lips such as D3, while MK will not. This would be the best stage to strike against just about everyone. It does very little to help MK and gives great advantages to characters like Diddy and ICs. Try to avoid it.
Player Input
Babar-Thorbald
FD:
40/100
FD is mk's worst stage.
Basically, mk is good with small stages, stages with platforms or moving stages...
FD is the exact opposite of that.
I personnaly usually ban this stage if I don't know who my oponnent picks as a character, and I almost always ban it anyway.
There is not that much things to say about it: flat stage, weird edges and the fact that you can glide from under is pretty much everything.
Ban this stage:
(beside "always")
-Snake
Snakes can screw you easily there... His grenade/c4 etc... game is just too good there.
-Falco
Seriously, you don't want to fight him there... The only stage in which he could **** you harder is Jungle Japes. No platform, flat stage... That mean easy laser spam and chaingrab.
Don't even try to play there.
-Olimar
Basically, you don't wanna fight a camper in FD.
Use this stage as a counterpick against:
No one, basically, you would do better in any other stage .
Lylat Cruise
Stage Summary
Lylat Cruise is one a good stage for MK. If it is a neutral, you would be wise to try to play on it. If it is a CP, you have better options. Lylat Cruise's main platform tilts, which can hinder some projectiles. The 3 platforms also play to your advantage of being really aggressive in forcing them into the air. The BEST part of this stage is the gimp factor. So many characters get gimped by the stage due to the flat underside and the fact that the stage tilts occasionally. However, like always, MK will not get gimped unless he is severely under the stage. Getting your opponent offstage and getting that cheap kill is why this stage is quite good.
Halberd
Stage Summary
Meta Knight's own stage provides him with a few key advantages. Meta Knight can shark through the main platform (the one that flies around) and pressure that way. Be careful though, when using your UpB, don't glide attack unless you are 100% over the platform, otherwise you will fall special to your doom. When you land on the Halberd, camping enemies have more advantages. The stage is long and a platform can provide cover. A cool thing I like to do (Very situational), is when the laser is pointing at me I like to force my opponent offstage quickly, and get the laser to shoot where he needs to go in order to recover. This stage has its pros and cons but you shouldn't fare to badly here.
Counterpicks/ Bans
I don't think it is appropriate to ban Halberd ever, as I think MK will have more trouble in all match-ups on other stages. However, in match-ups with great killers off the top, you may wan to strike the stage if it is considered a neutral. I like to counterpick this stage against people with bad recoveries, but no way to camp you on the Halberd (Such as Cpt. Falcon), although there is usually a better stage to CP to. This is however inconsequential as MK has a huge advantage in many of these match-ups regardless of the stage.
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Ban Halberd against snake, and olimar (probably more characters but cant think off the top of my head) because of snakes utilt killing at 100% and olimars usmash killing at about 110 (not sure). halberd is normally a good map for metaknight but at the same time it has a low ceiling which can be very annoying, especially against snake, olimar and other characters that kill well off the top.
-IIIIRICK
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Stage Summary
What Meta Knight Player doesn't LOVE Delfino Plaza. This stage is so amazing that my summary will only scratch the surface. One of the best parts of the main stage is that you can "shark", or attack from underneath the main stage. You can also do this on the Golden Building with the sun. There are walls on a few of the transformations allowing you to do a Dtilt lock while the transition is active. If your opponent gets caught in water, you can Dair, Nair, or Nado them to keep the there. Meta Knight may not want to take characters with chaingrabs on him due to multiple walkoffs. Characters with spikes ruin his sharking game and can punish Meta Knight hard if he gets in the water. Overall a very nice stage for Meta Knight, but not his best stage.
Player Input
.Tero
I don't care what stage next ...
Summary of Delfino Plaza:
General Stuff about the Stage:
There are 9 places where the moving platform can land
5 of the 9 places have water
7 walkoff edges in 4 places
8 walls in 4 places
Pros:
Mk can Dtilt lock against Walls in 7 walls in 4 places
You can jump through the stage from below, meaning you can attack your opponent from everywhere, you can suprise him with shuttle loop and you can start uair strings from below.
You can rack up % quick if you catch your opponent in the water (Dair/Nair)
MK can control the stage almost all the time
Dair is extremely good against opponents trying to attack from below
Platform on the moving part of the stage can help you with SL/Nado/Combos
You can get some early Dair kills at a few places
Characters with teather recovery can't stage spike you on the moving platform
Music is kickass, lol
Cons:
Characters with grab release chaingrabs can kill you at transformations with Walkoff edges
Transformations can save your opponents from gimps
Water can save your opponents from gimps
Good posts and more information:
I_Am_Infinity
Babar-Thorbald
Good Video to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU
Good CP Stage against:
- Snake
- Falco
- Diddy
- ZSS
- Marth
Brinstar
Stage Summary
There seems to be somewhat of a unanimous decision that Brinstar is one of, if not the BEST stage for Meta Knight. Brinstar is good for so many reasons. It is the most awkward stage in the game due to the lava hazards, uneven main level and the main stage can break in half. In other words, it's constantly changing. MK adapts to change well. Meta Knight can shark under the stage, and apply constant pressure due to the small stage size. It is really hard to camp here as you can hide behind the fleshy rope which deflects most projectiles, meanwhile the lava forces your opponent out of his comfort zone instantly giving MK stage control. The best part of this stage IMO is the horizontal kill zone. Shuttle Loop and Fair gimps kill at retardedly low percentages. On paper this stage may seem good, but practically it is amazing because it completely screws with your opponents game whether it be projectile camping, Chaingrabs (IC!!) or a strong spacing game. This stage is a dream for MK.
As I eavesdropped on the Olimar boards (cuz I secondary him), I came across this video that I think can visually show why MK can beast here. Credit to Rich Brown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXYmIiPKRo4&NR=1
Frigate Orpheon
Stage Summary
Frigate Orpheon is an odd stage imo. It has to cycles much like Cast Siege has 3, except there is no transition, it just flips. The first transition is rather small and the right edge cannot be grabbed. This is perfect for gimping as enemies with tether recoveries are screwed when you knock them off stage that way. The 2nd transition is much like Halberd, except with moving platforms on the lower sides. These can aid in your opponents recoveries which is unfortunate. It is also easier to camp this portion of the stage. MK can glide under the stage if necessary. I would consider counter picking this stage against ZSS, Olimar, or anyone else who I'm not thinking off that you can gimp off the side of the stage. IMO, Rainbow Cruise is a better option, but that's just me.
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Edits/ Updates
May 5th 2010- Added Brinstar Stage Summary
May 9th 2010- Added Brinstar Video, and Frigate Orpheon Stage Summary
Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Discussion Rules and Format
III. Stages
I-Introduction
Hey everyone, my name is Q77, but just call me Q. Although my post count is nigh, I have been following the forums (mostly Meta Knight) for over a year. The current (if you can even call that) Stage Discussion by Infinity is essentially dead and has not been updated for a LONG time. My goal is to create a complete stage guide of all legal stages, showing WHY each stage is either good or bad for Meta Knight. I will start my guide by taking information on the stages from other threads and combining them, to create a foundation for the guide. I will credit everyone who posts information, or who I have taken previous posted information from.
II-Discussion Rules and Format
Rules:
1- Please keep discussions Stage related. This can be about a character you should counter pick this against, or about what parts of the stage MK excels at. Just keep things relatively on topic
2- No Spam
3- No Flaming, please respond to someone you disagree with appropriately, without the use of cursing or bashing. Please explain why you disagree, and what your thoughts are.
4- Please post information or input on stages with little information. If Smashville has a ton of information post something about another stage to help the guide grow.
Format:
1- Stages will be graded on a non-numbers based scale. It will graded with a general summary of the pros and cons, and who you should take or avoid to this stage. This is because I feel that it is better to know WHY the stage is good over THAT the stage is good.
2- Specific things I am looking for include: Pros, Cons, Recovery, Gimping, Air and Ground game, Camping, Counter-picking, Striking, Banning and Sharking. Those are the few things I thought of at the top of my head, feel free to add anything that is not included above.
3- This will be an open discussion, meaning I don't care what stages you comment on. If everyone is talking about Battlefield, and you have information on Brinstar you would like to share please post it anyways.
4- I will be constantly looking for quality posts to include in the guide. You will be credited for the information you give.
III-Stages
Stage Order
1. Yoshi's Island Brawl
2. Battlefield
3. Smashville
4. Final Destination
5. Lylat Cruise
6. Halberd
7. Pokemon Stadium 1
8. Castle Siege
9. Defino Plaza
10. Brinstar
11. Frigate Orpheon
12. Rainbow Cruise
13. Jungle Japes
14. Pirate Ship
15. PictoChat
16. Pokemon Stadium 2
17. Norfair
18. Luigi's Manison
19. Distant Planet
20. Green Greens
21. Yoshi's Island Melee
22. Port Town Aero Drive
Note: The Stage Summaries are mostly of my analysis. They will be continuously updated when people post more information.
Yoshi's Island
Stage Summary
Yoshi's Island is, in my opinion, one of Meta Knights worse neutrals, for the sole purpose that it provides services to many other characters except Meta Knight. It is slightly harder to gimp at this stage because of the ghosts, and the fact that there is no way under the stage. Both of these elements help many of Meta Knights opponents. However, being a small stage, Meta Knight can play very aggressive. The tilting stage, platform, and maybe the shy guys can interfere with opponents projectiles. Overall, I'd say that there are better neutrals to pick, but Meta Knight is not hurt directly by the stage.
Battlefield
Stage Summary
Battlefield is quite a good stage for Meta Knight. I feel that the platforms work to his advantage due to the fact that if you can get underneath an opponent, you can make it really hard for them to get back to the main level of the stage. Meta Knight can easily fly under the stage if he must, which also means you can force your opponent under the stage if you get the chance. The edges of this stage are outward curves, helping your opponent recover. Grounded shuttle loops from the main level underneath your opponent on the platforms work excellent, and you can usually make it back to the main level with a quick diving glide cancel. I'm still unsure if this, or Smashville is his best neutral.
Smashville
Stage Summary
Smashville is a smaller version of Final Destination with a few minor differences. First of all, there in a moving platform ranging from the far left to the far right. This very key to helping recoveries, camping and avoiding camping. The other important difference is that other character's recoveries will be helped by the edges of the stage not having the gimping lips that stages such as Lylat and Final Destination have. Meta Knight has a few advantages at this stage. He has the ability to fly under the stage. The stage is small, which will help aggressive players keep the pressure on their opponent. Meta Knight can Dair Stage Spike if he hits them into the diagonal edges of the stage. He can also use many of his aerials to force an opponent completely under the stage, resulting in a kill. Overall, a good neutral stage for Meta Knight.
Player Input
Dojo
MK excels here. Getting an opponent off the edge is key to getting kills and racking extra damage. You have a small enough stage, in Smashville, to do this with ease if you know what you're doing. You're allowed enough room to manuever around, and do your thing as well while not off stage.
The moving platform doesn't really hinder his ability to gimp either. You can usually read when an opponent is going to attempt to make it to the platform rather then the ledge, and react accordingly. Most characters have a good bit of lag behind they landing when they recover so you have plenty of time to throw in a shuttle loop or nair to throw them back off again. It also has opportunities to take away from those that like to release grab like Marth and Yoshi.
But even with this, some characters may outclass him here. Diddy and Snake, in particular, can take alot of control on this stage with a flat terrain and a single moving platform, and it may not always be the best stage to take them to, and possibly a few others. There's usually a better option, but it's still definitely one of his better stages to rely on.
dr.mario.guy
Smashville is probably his best neutral. Easy to recover under it if you have to, platform helps MK against campy characters and helps him a lot vs IC's. The platforms also help his gimping game a lot more than they help people recover vs him; you can stand on the platform and drop/jump to where you need to where as a stage like FD you would have to jump a bit further out there and try to judge them well without being able to preserve jumps.
Only person I could see MK not taking to this stage would be Snake, and even then I don't think Snake dominates MK on this stage or anything.
Final Destination
Stage Summary
Final Destination is likely Meta Knight's worst neutral. It's so long and open and gives enemies and easy way to escape the aggression and pressure that MK like to put on his opponents. A few things that MK has going for him include, flying under the stage and the lips on the edges. Many characters get gimped by the lips such as D3, while MK will not. This would be the best stage to strike against just about everyone. It does very little to help MK and gives great advantages to characters like Diddy and ICs. Try to avoid it.
Player Input
Babar-Thorbald
FD:
40/100
FD is mk's worst stage.
Basically, mk is good with small stages, stages with platforms or moving stages...
FD is the exact opposite of that.
I personnaly usually ban this stage if I don't know who my oponnent picks as a character, and I almost always ban it anyway.
There is not that much things to say about it: flat stage, weird edges and the fact that you can glide from under is pretty much everything.
Ban this stage:
(beside "always")
-Snake
Snakes can screw you easily there... His grenade/c4 etc... game is just too good there.
-Falco
Seriously, you don't want to fight him there... The only stage in which he could **** you harder is Jungle Japes. No platform, flat stage... That mean easy laser spam and chaingrab.
Don't even try to play there.
-Olimar
Basically, you don't wanna fight a camper in FD.
Use this stage as a counterpick against:
No one, basically, you would do better in any other stage .
Lylat Cruise
Stage Summary
Lylat Cruise is one a good stage for MK. If it is a neutral, you would be wise to try to play on it. If it is a CP, you have better options. Lylat Cruise's main platform tilts, which can hinder some projectiles. The 3 platforms also play to your advantage of being really aggressive in forcing them into the air. The BEST part of this stage is the gimp factor. So many characters get gimped by the stage due to the flat underside and the fact that the stage tilts occasionally. However, like always, MK will not get gimped unless he is severely under the stage. Getting your opponent offstage and getting that cheap kill is why this stage is quite good.
Halberd
Stage Summary
Meta Knight's own stage provides him with a few key advantages. Meta Knight can shark through the main platform (the one that flies around) and pressure that way. Be careful though, when using your UpB, don't glide attack unless you are 100% over the platform, otherwise you will fall special to your doom. When you land on the Halberd, camping enemies have more advantages. The stage is long and a platform can provide cover. A cool thing I like to do (Very situational), is when the laser is pointing at me I like to force my opponent offstage quickly, and get the laser to shoot where he needs to go in order to recover. This stage has its pros and cons but you shouldn't fare to badly here.
Counterpicks/ Bans
I don't think it is appropriate to ban Halberd ever, as I think MK will have more trouble in all match-ups on other stages. However, in match-ups with great killers off the top, you may wan to strike the stage if it is considered a neutral. I like to counterpick this stage against people with bad recoveries, but no way to camp you on the Halberd (Such as Cpt. Falcon), although there is usually a better stage to CP to. This is however inconsequential as MK has a huge advantage in many of these match-ups regardless of the stage.
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Ban Halberd against snake, and olimar (probably more characters but cant think off the top of my head) because of snakes utilt killing at 100% and olimars usmash killing at about 110 (not sure). halberd is normally a good map for metaknight but at the same time it has a low ceiling which can be very annoying, especially against snake, olimar and other characters that kill well off the top.
-IIIIRICK
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Stage Summary
What Meta Knight Player doesn't LOVE Delfino Plaza. This stage is so amazing that my summary will only scratch the surface. One of the best parts of the main stage is that you can "shark", or attack from underneath the main stage. You can also do this on the Golden Building with the sun. There are walls on a few of the transformations allowing you to do a Dtilt lock while the transition is active. If your opponent gets caught in water, you can Dair, Nair, or Nado them to keep the there. Meta Knight may not want to take characters with chaingrabs on him due to multiple walkoffs. Characters with spikes ruin his sharking game and can punish Meta Knight hard if he gets in the water. Overall a very nice stage for Meta Knight, but not his best stage.
Player Input
.Tero
I don't care what stage next ...
Summary of Delfino Plaza:
General Stuff about the Stage:
There are 9 places where the moving platform can land
5 of the 9 places have water
7 walkoff edges in 4 places
8 walls in 4 places
Pros:
Mk can Dtilt lock against Walls in 7 walls in 4 places
You can jump through the stage from below, meaning you can attack your opponent from everywhere, you can suprise him with shuttle loop and you can start uair strings from below.
You can rack up % quick if you catch your opponent in the water (Dair/Nair)
MK can control the stage almost all the time
Dair is extremely good against opponents trying to attack from below
Platform on the moving part of the stage can help you with SL/Nado/Combos
You can get some early Dair kills at a few places
Characters with teather recovery can't stage spike you on the moving platform
Music is kickass, lol
Cons:
Characters with grab release chaingrabs can kill you at transformations with Walkoff edges
Transformations can save your opponents from gimps
Water can save your opponents from gimps
Good posts and more information:
I_Am_Infinity
Babar-Thorbald
Good Video to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBzCHwiSroU
Good CP Stage against:
- Snake
- Falco
- Diddy
- ZSS
- Marth
Brinstar
Stage Summary
There seems to be somewhat of a unanimous decision that Brinstar is one of, if not the BEST stage for Meta Knight. Brinstar is good for so many reasons. It is the most awkward stage in the game due to the lava hazards, uneven main level and the main stage can break in half. In other words, it's constantly changing. MK adapts to change well. Meta Knight can shark under the stage, and apply constant pressure due to the small stage size. It is really hard to camp here as you can hide behind the fleshy rope which deflects most projectiles, meanwhile the lava forces your opponent out of his comfort zone instantly giving MK stage control. The best part of this stage IMO is the horizontal kill zone. Shuttle Loop and Fair gimps kill at retardedly low percentages. On paper this stage may seem good, but practically it is amazing because it completely screws with your opponents game whether it be projectile camping, Chaingrabs (IC!!) or a strong spacing game. This stage is a dream for MK.
As I eavesdropped on the Olimar boards (cuz I secondary him), I came across this video that I think can visually show why MK can beast here. Credit to Rich Brown.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXYmIiPKRo4&NR=1
Frigate Orpheon
Stage Summary
Frigate Orpheon is an odd stage imo. It has to cycles much like Cast Siege has 3, except there is no transition, it just flips. The first transition is rather small and the right edge cannot be grabbed. This is perfect for gimping as enemies with tether recoveries are screwed when you knock them off stage that way. The 2nd transition is much like Halberd, except with moving platforms on the lower sides. These can aid in your opponents recoveries which is unfortunate. It is also easier to camp this portion of the stage. MK can glide under the stage if necessary. I would consider counter picking this stage against ZSS, Olimar, or anyone else who I'm not thinking off that you can gimp off the side of the stage. IMO, Rainbow Cruise is a better option, but that's just me.
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Edits/ Updates
May 5th 2010- Added Brinstar Stage Summary
May 9th 2010- Added Brinstar Video, and Frigate Orpheon Stage Summary
