New Long Interview with Sakurai

[BluePikmin11]

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2qvwwp/really_long_japanese_interview_with_sakurai_needs/
If someone could help translate it would be appreciated!

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Parts of this interview have already been translated, actually.

One part is about Bowser Jr. almost being cut, and another is about Greninja's development... again... Sakurai really likes Greninja, doesn't he? I'll edit them into this post. One sec.

EDIT: Here you go, straight from NeoGAF.

This is from pages 3-4. ND is Nintendo Dream, MS is Sakurai. Here's the link: http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=145444294&postcount=63

ND: When not you are not developing and there is a new title or character released, you are not thinking about "How about that one in the next Smash Bros?", right?

MS: Absolutely not! I'm always thinking that doing Smash Bros. again will be impossible. Impossible, impossible...is what I always think, but I ended up making it again (laughs). But once I decide to do it, I'm very fast about creating moves and such. For example Greninja, even before his name was decided I received several illustrations. I took them home in the evening and around midnight I had already done all his actions, normal moves, special moves and pose-pictures and sent them around asking "What do you think?".

ND: That's incredible speed! By the way, when deciding on which characters to use, are you looking into unreleased new games?

MS: At the very beginning I did that. This time our project-proposal is dated May 2012, at that time all characters were decided already. Then as production moves on we will say "We won't put that chracter in" and cut out low-priority-characters.

ND: That means in your project-proposal there are more characters than ended up in the game?

MS: Yes, but I won't tell which of course.

ND: (laughs). We were wondering all the time "Which characters will be in", and then the "long-time heroes" are announced just like that. We were wondering if that was the right way to announce them.

MS: After all we were planning on including so many characters, in the end this pace of announcing them was enough. Each and every character has fans, we wanted to drop as few as possible. About the order of which character has priority, the characters that don't have a new title coming up have an overwhelming disadvantage...even characters that we ended up including could have been left out if development had progressed differently. But even if 1 former character is left out, for the fans this is a huge thing. On our side, we are re-creating characters from the previous title, and keep on adding more, so the word "reduce" is not appropriate. There are cases where we simply couldn't make it in the end, but on the whole we did a good job I think and the people at Bandai Namco Games did a great job. We had discussions on giving up on something many many times, Bowser Jr. was on the brink of being cut but the staff said "We'll do our best!" and we made it.

ND: Were there Smash Bros. or Nintendo-fans among the staff of Bandai Namco Games?

SM: Of course. People who love Nintendo, people who love the characters, people who aren't a fan of something specific but love games as a whole...it depends on the individual.

ND: Was there something you didn't ask for but got created because one of your staff was obsessed with it?

MS: There are several cases of this. For example, Sheik's movement is completely different to Brawl, someone made a proposal to me for those motions.

-----

The translator also left a nice little comment I'll include with the post...

"So once you hear about a new Smash Bros. being in development you are not asking for which characters to be included, but which characters shouldn't be cut."

 

[Raijinken]

Well, at least Sakurai knows the effect niche fighters have on playerbases. I'd take a stab at translating it, but there are far better people for that around (it'd probably take me all day and be full of issues). Looking forward to the translated version.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yeah, it's on the news section, and once again, Sakurai does not understand competitive fighting games or what the point is. Balance the game around casuals and it's broken for competitives and casuals won't notice or care. Balance the game around competitives and casuals still won't notice or care, but competitives will recognize and appreciate it. Does Sakurai somehow think casuals didn't play melee? It's really dumb, and disappointing.

 

[PCHU]

Yeah, it's on the news section, and once again, Sakurai does not understand competitive fighting games or what the point is. Balance the game around casuals and it's broken for competitives and casuals won't notice or care. Balance the game around competitives and casuals still won't notice or care, but competitives will recognize and appreciate it. Does Sakurai somehow think casuals didn't play melee? It's really dumb, and disappointing.

Casual players won't notice or care about the brokenness until someone starts exploiting it.
Even so, I'd guess that, from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand the game like we do (despite having worked on it), it's hard to make such players happy due to their willingness to complain about anything that keeps them from winning, which is probably why a lot of newer players are happy with this title -- the mechanics reward opportunistic/campy play so going out and dealing with proper spacing is a lot easier; not many characters can pressure shield as well as they used to, aside from some mindgames with a select few smashes and specials.

It's a very fine balance, and while this was a great step forward in bringing up newer players, it didn't open up very much for veterans; the best combos I've seen are from that platform sliding ridiculousness and everything else is what would formerly be considered as executing a proper followup, but it's practically given to you now due to the way some of the moves work.
This being said, the game isn't broken, and they've done an excellent job in making sure it works just the way they intended.
Still, even talking with some semi-casual players, they prefer Brawl because they don't feel like Smash 4 gives them enough freedom.

 

[ChikoLad]

Everyone is here worrying about his comments on the competitive future of the game, and I'm just dying to hear any thoughts he has on Rosalina. He hasn't discussed her at all in any interviews yet, while he's discussed pretty much every other character (aside from maybe Palutena).

 

[Thinkaman]

Thank God, I was worried we'd start 2015 with a lack of Sakurai-being-taken-out-of-context.

 

[Xzsmmc]

I don't get his logic.

"About the order of which character has priority, the characters that don’t have a new title coming up have an overwhelming disadvantage"
(Uprising was a one-off according to him)

Yet we lost , despite a new Starfox game on the way.

 

[Igzex]

I don't get his logic.

"About the order of which character has priority, the characters that don’t have a new title coming up have an overwhelming disadvantage"
(Uprising was a one-off according to him)

Yet we lost , despite a new Starfox game on the way.

Sakurai probably didn't know there was another Starfox game on the way. Like, it was really late in development when Starfox Wii U was announced wasn't it? I'd say if they had to remove a Star Fox character it should've been Falco but not including Falco in Smash would be like not including Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel in MVC3. Falco's a cult favorite with the smash bros fanbase. So in the end Wolf didn't have much of a chance...

Duckhunt is in as an unexpected relic from Nintendo's past just like Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Pit in Brawl, and R.O.B

Little Mac I'd imagine was even considered in Brawl for a moment but Wii Punch Out was too early in development so all Sakurai had was his design. Also might be in the same room as Duck Hunt.

It wouldn't make sense to not include Kid Icarus Uprising stuff considering it was a good success for his company.

 

[Xzsmmc]

You're probably right about Falco and Wolf, though I'm still not 100% convinced.

Duckhunt is in as an unexpected relic from Nintendo's past just like Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Pit in Brawl, and R.O.B

Still, what separates 'relics' from a character like Captain Syrup or King K. Rool? Both have been MIA for about six years, but that's a hell of a lot shorter than thirty. Why is advertising so important, except when it's not?

Little Mac I'd imagine was even considered in Brawl for a moment but Wii Punch Out was too early in development so all Sakurai had was his design. Also might be in the same room as Duck Hunt.

Brawl Mac used his NES design instead of his Wii one, so I doubt he even had that.

It wouldn't make sense to not include Kid Icarus Uprising stuff considering it was a good success for his company.

By his own words if it's not getting a new entry, it's at an 'overwhelming disadvantage'. If only he had worked on a new F-Zero instead.

 

[Igzex]

Because Captain Syrup and K. Rool are not NES relics. You know, where Nintendo started to become what it still is now? It's not really advertising for them as much as it is things from Nintendo history.

 

[Xzsmmc]

Because Captain Syrup and K. Rool are not NES relics. You know, where Nintendo started to become what it still is now? It's not really advertising for them as much as it is things from Nintendo history.

Doesn't change the fact that they're not getting anything new. I guess I'd just like some clarification on 'retro' characters from Sakurai, and their criteria. We can assume all we like, but I want to hear it from the man himself.

 

[Vaidya]

Makes me wonder how Ike even made it back in. Like he uses his Radiant Dawn appearance as opposed to his Awakening appliance from the DLC. I guess Awakening was good enough?

 

[Vaidya]

What's his deal with not mentioning the cut characters? People want to know that kind of stuff!

 

[Boo Jr.]

What's his deal with not mentioning the cut characters? People want to know that kind of stuff!

Maybe because cutted character already have some data done (maybe they started to work on some of them before the cut)...and maybe, just maybe, this means that they can be easily added later as DLC...

One can dream...

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I would like to say it's because of not wanting to spoil the planned DLC, but Sakurai refused to comment about scrapped characters for Brawl too other than Dixie Kong, when DLC was an impossibility then, so it's probably just Sakurai being Sakurai.

 

[Igzex]

If reactions to the explanation for Ice Climbers not making it indicate anything it shouldn't be hard to see why he's not so transparent when it comes to the cutting room floor...

 

[ZeldaMaster]

What Sakurai doesn't realize is that even with competitive tactics and inputs, casual players can still have a blast. As a child, my first Smash was Melee, and I hadn't even heard of the competitive scene. Despite all its advanced mechanics, on a superficial level, I still saw it as Smash, and still had a blast. Infact, I never even played Melee competitively, and I still hold it as one of my favorite games of all time. That's the thing, on a superficial level, a casual or someone who just want to have fun will always see the game as just being Smash. For those who want to explore Smash deeper beyond the superficial level, they should have the option to do that.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai probably didn't know there was another Starfox game on the way. Like, it was really late in development when Starfox Wii U was announced wasn't it? I'd say if they had to remove a Star Fox character it should've been Falco but not including Falco in Smash would be like not including Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel in MVC3. Falco's a cult favorite with the smash bros fanbase. So in the end Wolf didn't have much of a chance...

Duckhunt is in as an unexpected relic from Nintendo's past just like Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Pit in Brawl, and R.O.B

Little Mac I'd imagine was even considered in Brawl for a moment but Wii Punch Out was too early in development so all Sakurai had was his design. Also might be in the same room as Duck Hunt.

It wouldn't make sense to not include Kid Icarus Uprising stuff considering it was a good success for his company.

The thing is, Sakurai already admitted that he researches upcoming games so I doubt he didn't know about the new Star Fox game. So that argument doesn't really hold up that much.

I don't get his logic.

"About the order of which character has priority, the characters that don’t have a new title coming up have an overwhelming disadvantage"
(Uprising was a one-off according to him)

Yet we lost , despite a new Starfox game on the way.

Sakurai already stated that characters from franchises that don't have a future are rarely chosen. Considering he confirmed he won't make a new Kid Icarus game, he still put in two additional KI characters.

Although I do have to say that Bowser Jr. almost getting cut is by far the most intriguing part of the interview.

 

[Igzex]

He does research upcoming games but wasn't Star Fox for Wii U announced in 2014 while the Smash line up was finalized in 2012-2013? I'm pretty sure the idea to even begin development for Star Fox happened much too late for Sakurai to take notice by the time the character line-up was finalized.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

The roster was finalized in May 2012. Maybe Starfox wasn't in development at that time.

 

[Arcadenik]

What's his deal with not mentioning the cut characters? People want to know that kind of stuff!

I think that if Sakurai specifically named which characters he considered for SSB4 but didn't add them in the game, there would be a lot of people jumping on the bandwagons for these specific characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think that if Sakurai specifically named which characters he considered for SSB4 but didn't add them in the game, there would be a lot of people jumping on the bandwagons for these specific characters.

And considering only IC's and PT were cut for 3DS limitations, as he noted himself(and explains that some tweaks were done for that too. PT was due to transformations not being feasible, which explains the Zelda and Sheik split quite well), he doesn't need to explain any other cuts besides maybe Snake at most. Lucas is from a dead series. Ness is part of the Original 12 so at least one has a reason to stay according to his ideal "rules" for choosing characters. Not that being from a dead series means you have zero chance of getting in, as he noted before. Just "unlikely".

As said just a bit ago, StarFox had no new games and the latest one was announced quite late. Sakurai very likely did not know of that just yet. Falco had enough popularity to stay. Wolf, to be fair, doesn't have that much popularity in comparison.

Mentioning any other cuts means he could get his Twitter bombarded with requests. And since future Character DLC is currently in the air right now beyond Mewtwo, he'd rather at least wait to decide if he wants to do more as is. If he does decide to do more, he could mention characters he's working on later, and if they aren't ones that were previously playable in Smash, could give a quick explanation why(including if they were planned but cut).

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

What Sakurai doesn't realize is that even with competitive tactics and inputs, casual players can still have a blast. As a child, my first Smash was Melee, and I hadn't even heard of the competitive scene. Despite all its advanced mechanics, on a superficial level, I still saw it as Smash, and still had a blast. Infact, I never even played Melee competitively, and I still hold it as one of my favorite games of all time. That's the thing, on a superficial level, a casual or someone who just want to have fun will always see the game as just being Smash. For those who want to explore Smash deeper beyond the superficial level, they should have the option to do that.

Sakurai said the melee was a mistake and that he can't recreate the techniques that was in melee, their is a reason why some people that like melee don't like project M because they can't recreate what was in melee and implement it to all the characters and make it feel the same. People need to stop looking for the next melee and find a new way to make the new game competitive just like they did for melee, because smash 4 and the next smash game will not be like melee.

 

[_gold_]

Sakurai is a legend. I deserves a long break after creating another masterpiece.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sakurai is a legend. I deserves a long break after creating another masterpiece.

I'd love to see this masterpiece of yours.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I see bowser jr just barely made it

and the greninja before he was born thing is known already


But will we here the reason why mewtwo failed for non dlc characters
(even though theres a 75% chance its the same thing as brawl)

 

[Pazzo.]

Now, we can finally take this 'No competitive future' nonsense in the right context.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Well that's a relief that we got all the characters that we did.

And Sakurai is always like that with his mindset towards Smash. It's probably one of the most daunting games to make because of all the people needed and all the stuff coming together.

 

[Arcadenik]

Doesn't change the fact that they're not getting anything new. I guess I'd just like some clarification on 'retro' characters from Sakurai, and their criteria. We can assume all we like, but I want to hear it from the man himself.

Retro characters need to be clarified? All the retro characters we have gotten so far are connected to Gunpei Yokoi and/or Nintendo R&D1... oh, and they all debuted in the 1980s.

Nintendo R&D1 (developer)

• Balloon Fight (since Sakurai considered Balloon Fighter for Melee)
• Clu Clu Land (since Sakurai considered Bubbles for Melee)
• Excitebike (since Sakurai considered Excitebiker for Melee)
• Gyromite
• Hogan's Alley
• Ice Climber
• Stack-Up
• Urban Champion (since Sakurai considered Urban Champion for Melee)
• Wild Gunman

Gunpei Yokoi (producer)

• Game & Watch
• R.O.B.

Both

• Duck Hunt
• Kid Icarus

So... in my opinion, the criteria for retro characters, in addition to uniqueness and whatever else that applies to non-retro characters, seems to be Gunpei Yokoi and/or Nintendo R&D1 and the 1980s decade.

 

[LancerStaff]

I would like to say it's because of not wanting to spoil the planned DLC, but Sakurai refused to comment about scrapped characters for Brawl too other than Dixie Kong, when DLC was an impossibility then, so it's probably just Sakurai being Sakurai.

More likely not to upset the fanbase when the DLC inevitably doesn't happen. And when recent characters like Wonder Red become irrelevant and go the way of Issac and K. Rool.

What Sakurai doesn't realize is that even with competitive tactics and inputs, casual players can still have a blast. As a child, my first Smash was Melee, and I hadn't even heard of the competitive scene. Despite all its advanced mechanics, on a superficial level, I still saw it as Smash, and still had a blast. Infact, I never even played Melee competitively, and I still hold it as one of my favorite games of all time. That's the thing, on a superficial level, a casual or someone who just want to have fun will always see the game as just being Smash. For those who want to explore Smash deeper beyond the superficial level, they should have the option to do that.

Not when they're in direct contact with each other, no. Like online. You see silly techniques like firehopping in Mario Kart and people go ballistic, something like Melee 2 would widely be ridiculed for being a glitchy mess that's impossible to get into.

Smash got to where it is now by actively going against the whole "competitive fighting game" idea. This will not ever change.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I actually find this interview interesting. He makes it rather clear that outside of Brawl, every game was catered to both kinds of players quite well, and it shows. There's fairly good character balance, options to play with, a clear intent on having a varied course list that is not all severe hazards, the options to turn off items, excellent ways to set up match types...

But he is right. Appealing solely to competitive players would hurt the series. Appealing to both(like he did for most of the series save Brawl) gets more customers and because each game is vastly different, it appeals rather well to a majority of people. No game is ultimately bad or severely the best by any means objectively at all. Although opinions of preference vary, respectively.

 

[SmashChu]

Retro characters need to be clarified? All the retro characters we have gotten so far are connected to Gunpei Yokoi and/or Nintendo R&D1... oh, and they all debuted in the 1980s.

Nintendo R&D1 (developer)

• Balloon Fight (since Sakurai considered Balloon Fighter for Melee)
• Clu Clu Land (since Sakurai considered Bubbles for Melee)
• Excitebike (since Sakurai considered Excitebiker for Melee)
• Gyromite
• Hogan's Alley
• Ice Climber
• Stack-Up
• Urban Champion (since Sakurai considered Urban Champion for Melee)
• Wild Gunman

Gunpei Yokoi (producer)

• Game & Watch
• R.O.B.

Both

• Duck Hunt
• Kid Icarus

So... in my opinion, the criteria for retro characters, in addition to uniqueness and whatever else that applies to non-retro characters, seems to be Gunpei Yokoi and/or Nintendo R&D1 and the 1980s decade.

Correlation is not causation. What you described can also be explained by the fact that most classic series in Smash are chosen because of their impact and success. Most of those just happen to be made bu Yokoi (who was also Miyamoto's mentor) and R&D1. Ice Climbers were chosen because they were unique.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Yeah, it's on the news section, and once again, Sakurai does not understand competitive fighting games or what the point is. Balance the game around casuals and it's broken for competitives and casuals won't notice or care. Balance the game around competitives and casuals still won't notice or care, but competitives will recognize and appreciate it. Does Sakurai somehow think casuals didn't play melee? It's really dumb, and disappointing.

If you do the reverse, Dota style balance, you can turn people off and make it so they don't want to play the game.

There is a reason smash sells and league is the most popular MOBA.

Because they actually care for the little guy who just wants a fun game to play.

Smash 4 is far better than Melew in that regard.

 

[PCHU]

If you do the reverse, Dota style balance, you can turn people off and make it so they don't want to play the game.

There is a reason smash sells and league is the most popular MOBA.

Because they actually care for the little guy who just wants a fun game to play.

Smash 4 is far better than Melew in that regard.

Another thing to note is that Melee wasn't necessarily balanced around casual or competitive play, it was just balanced as a game.
They took the time to add in some cool stuff (Fox's jump out of shine, double jump regen with CF/Ganon's downB) and just left it alone to have people enjoy it, but we all know what happened.
Now they're actively fighting against the competitive scene, and while I get their reasoning, it kinda sucks to be on the receiving end of that; at the end of the day, I just want a fun game with lots of variety so it doesn't stale fast.

I really wish the WiiU had sold better so they'd be less pressed to release things faster and have more time to make sure what they've got is well worth the money; having played both Super Mario Bros U (Luigi U, too) and Mario Kart 8, I kinda get this impression that they just want to have the game out as fast as possible without really taking time to polish it -- Mario Kart 8's alright, but item distribution aside, there just aren't that many shortcuts and I feel the antigravity aspect was squandered.

Also, I hears that Dota balances around exaggerating a flaw rather than nerfing the strength.
How is that bad?
It teaches people to think differently and helps to make characters stand out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Another thing to note is that Melee wasn't necessarily balanced around casual or competitive play, it was just balanced as a game.
They took the time to add in some cool stuff (Fox's jump out of shine, double jump regen with CF/Ganon's downB) and just left it alone to have people enjoy it, but we all know what happened.
Now they're actively fighting against the competitive scene, and while I get their reasoning, it kinda sucks to be on the receiving end of that; at the end of the day, I just want a fun game with lots of variety so it doesn't stale fast.

I really wish the WiiU had sold better so they'd be less pressed to release things faster and have more time to make sure what they've got is well worth the money; having played both Super Mario Bros U (Luigi U, too) and Mario Kart 8, I kinda get this impression that they just want to have the game out as fast as possible without really taking time to polish it -- Mario Kart 8's alright, but item distribution aside, there just aren't that many shortcuts and I feel the antigravity aspect was squandered.

Also, I hears that Dota balances around exaggerating a flaw rather than nerfing the strength.
How is that bad?
It teaches people to think differently and helps to make characters stand out.

With Dota2, the thing that bothers me is as a result the match-ups are pretty terrible, like legit 90-10 match-ups unlless your opponent has no clue how to play Dota. That to me bad introduction and design.

The issue is players trying to get into it with DOTA, this can be a huge turn off and also be an incredible hurtle for people to work around.

DOTA is not friendly to people trying to play or learn it, League of Legends is.

That's where the larger issue is and what I think the new smash games plus Project M do a lot better for working out step by step learning for the harder stuff and letting people tinker.

Smash 4 is my favorite smash game for that reason and many others. It's not going to get dull easily for me, and I'd rather play it over Melee for what it is offering if I wanna take a break from practicing.

It's more personal outside of the dota stuff which to me is a design philosophy I don't agree or find myself liking at all.

 

[AncientTobacco]

More translations: http://nintendoeverything.com/sakur...-bros-chose-order-of-character-announcements/

ND: Not only guest characters were shocking, but Wii Fit Trainer as well. It was a character no one saw coming, right?

MS: Yes, that’s right. Zero, none… (laughs)

(everyone laughs)

MS: For Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it was discussed that non-combatant-like characters wouldn’t be added, but this time an important aspect of the concept was “if that character is included, could interesting things be done and could that fighter express individual traits?” When making this game, it was necessary to think very seriously “how to create new fun things”. I was able to think in my head the way how Wii Fit Trainer and Villager would operate so therefore they were included. Games must be completed properly, and in order to have fun gameplay for you and your opponent, each character has to have individuality. The present Smash Bros. was done by giving importance to that.

ND: By the way, did you realize Trainer as something to put into a Smash game at the time of the release of Wii Fit?

MS: No, that’s not the case. I don’t think about new characters etc. if I don’t have to for making a new Smash Bros. game.

Another question asked by Nintendo Dream is whether Sakurai chose the order of character announcements for Smash Bros. This was indeed so.

As Sakurai stated:

Yes. Although I received consultation on events and such, the schedule of what gets announced and when all was decided beforehand. That is so things like deadlines for the movies were arranged accordingly.

 

[FloatingMew]

What's his deal with not mentioning the cut characters? People want to know that kind of stuff!

This also annoys me. Just out with it Sakurai. What's done is done, characters have already been cut, its not like saying anything on the topic will make a difference...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This also annoys me. Just out with it Sakurai. What's done is done, characters have already been cut, its not like saying anything on the topic will make a difference...

Actually, it does. Until he decides if he'll make more DLC or not, he can't risk being bombarded with requests on Twitter/etc. If he decides to do more characters, then it could be okay, as long as he intends to work on them. The best he can do is clearly state why they didn't make it in, as long as he's sure he'll make more DLC characters. People will just keep telling him to continue DLC, whether he wants to or not. Right now, it's a gray area and the last thing he needs is to be bothered for something he is iffy on. He needs to be patient as do other people, otherwise it won't go well. And yes, he has been bombarded on Twitter before, so he has good reason to wait.

Re: Wiit Fit Trainer: It's very clear he thought nobody would see it coming. However, someone did predict it before, and according to a poll here, some thought she would get in. She's a very uncommon request, to the point of an extremely vocal minority. I can see why he thinks nobody would request her. He never saw it. That said, she was clearly unexpected by the majority anyway.

 

[Curious Villager]

This also annoys me. Just out with it Sakurai. What's done is done, characters have already been cut, its not like saying anything on the topic will make a difference...

To be fair, people threw a major hissy fit when he explained why he didn't include the Ice Climbers and Ridley (And Chrom to some extend), It's probably for the best he keeps quiet about any other characters he didn't (or didn't get to) include for now.....