New Falco Player!

[Mateo113]

Hey everyone, well just joined the boards a week or two ago and made my first posts today actually. Falco is my main character and I am relatively new to the competitive Melee. I picked up Melee this summer and this game holds a special place in my heart now haha. I always knew about it as a little kid but I never got into it till this summer. Since September I have been learning of advanced techniques and know about a lot of them but don't have them down.

I am slowly progressing in getting L-Cancelling down, I do it most of the time when I down air and then shine but forget to do it on n-airs and b-airs. I don't actually do a short hop fast fall n-air that often at all, I usually run and short hop at them with a d-air.

Literally yesterday I learned how to do a recovery off the ledge with an attack and I have a new love for the b-air. I even tried doing some edge guarding with it by jumping off the stage at them and back airing them cause if you do a forward air or d-air your just dead haha. I guess I could use n-air just the same but I noticed a lot of pros just wait on stage to do a d-air which i also do. I always die when i try to recover with lasers.

I do know how to wave-dash badly but I don't know how to actually apply it at all. I notice good players usually shuffle a d-air with a shine and then do two wavedashes to follow their opponent to do it again. I am now where near that with my wave dashing as i don't even actually use wave-dashing in battle, I just know how to do it a little bit but not good enough to do it successfully every time and don't have enough confidence to use it in game.
I feel like I should try to incorporate dash dancing in my game first before wave dashing as it is a lot easier, I know how to do it but again I don't use it enough in game and usually only remember to do it when I kill someone haha.

Oh and of course I have the worst habit ever of rolling all over the place. It's how I and just about everybody learned how to play this game. I really don't know how I'm going to get rid of it.

Oh and other habits, I'm trying to learn the X button to jump, It seems like its easier to do the lasers but I have a huge habbit of using the y-button. I noticed a thread saying it was all preference but it seems like X button has a slight advantage and that if it's possible to switch you might as well do it. Just like I switched in CoD to tactical way back in the day to drop shot (I actually used to be pretty good at that game back in the day).

I actually am decent at short hop lasering and it has improved my game immensely but when I mess up the jump i get ****ed cause the frames are so slow .

I am really trying to improve as Falco is my main and I would love to hear any advice. Maybe sometime I'll post a video but it will honestly be horrific and I don't know if you guys will be able to handle it haha.


I noticed there was a thread with a guy at a similar level and you guys had some helpful things to say. I just wanted to make a more personalized thread and I believe I am a little more dedicated than that guy and would love to hear your advice because I really really really want to get better.

Thanks everyone!
-Mateo

 

[Warhawk]

Well you shouldn't be worrying about wavedashing if you can't shffl yet. At first learning to effectively shffl will help you a lot more than wavedashing, which may end up hurting you since you don't know the practical application yet. Learning to short hop blaster (quickly, mind you, a slow SHB game almost defeats the purpose of it) and when to do it will probably help you more early on as well. Fortunately for you since you play Falco dash dancing isn't as big, especially early on, because of your SHB game.

If you're having trouble eliminating your habit of rolling you should start looking for and noting every time you roll. Better yet, play someone that is good enough to really punish you for rolling. That will start to condition your mind out of being roll-happy. I also would reccommend watching some videos of some pros playing to see where and when they use the applications of advanced techniques and in general how they approach and react to certain things. For me, that's what really helped me out at first. Also watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE&feature=related and the other two parts of the video. This really helped my friends to learn a good number of advanced techniques when they started.

 

[Jasou]

Well you shouldn't be worrying about wavedashing if you can't shffl yet. At first learning to effectively shffl will help you a lot more than wavedashing, which may end up hurting you since you don't know the practical application yet. Learning to short hop blaster (quickly, mind you, a slow SHB game almost defeats the purpose of it) and when to do it will probably help you more early on as well. Fortunately for you since you play Falco dash dancing isn't as big, especially early on, because of your SHB game.

If you're having trouble eliminating your habit of rolling you should start looking for and noting every time you roll. Better yet, play someone that is good enough to really punish you for rolling. That will start to condition your mind out of being roll-happy. I also would reccommend watching some videos of some pros playing to see where and when they use the applications of advanced techniques and in general how they approach and react to certain things. For me, that's what really helped me out at first. Also watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE&feature=related and the other two parts of the video. This really helped my friends to learn a good number of advanced techniques when they started.

Yeah he's right. Shffls are a lot more important mostly because you want to chain them to the shine and like he said SHB is great too. You should L-cancel every aerial (you can also use R), it is extremely important. If you cannot tell if an aerial is L-canceled or not use the shine and see if it allows you to do the shine right after your aerial. Another important thing to note is that L-cancel's have a bit different timing when you actually hit your opponent. What most people suggest is to practice this timing with L-cancels and shine on a handicapped bowser that doesn't move(because he won't fly away from your attacks easily).

Also is this what you meant by recovering with lasers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agP0vAoN8MA&feature=channel_video_title This video I made is designed to teach the low version of ledge hop double laser(lhdl), which is most of the time more effective then a normal lhdl.

 

[Dark Lady]

I agree with everybody here, haha. SHFFL SHFFL SHFFL. It is extremely important. SHFFL'ing gives you a lot more options to your game than Wavedash ever will. It's offensive, defensive, and gives your characters a chunk of options that (s)he would never normally have. Practice the timings on it.

First, you should practice them out in the open without hitting anything. 'specially your nairs because you don't SHHFL them well.

Second, turn on items to Very High, but keep all items off. This gives you empty crates. Hitting the crates is the same hitlag as hitting a player. And train your SHFFLs that way.

Third, When you get those down, then congratz!!! Wavedash is the next step towards a better you! ^.^

 

[Rubyiris]

@OP: If you've got aim/msn/etc I'm always happy to discuss Falco/competitive melee.

Same to anyone else who's interested, really.

 

[Yakal]

Rubyiris with the helping hand

SHFFL errday, homeslice.

 

[Warhawk]

@OP: If you've got aim/msn/etc I'm always happy to discuss Falco/competitive melee.

Same to anyone else who's interested, really.

What about windows live messenger?

 

[Beat!]

What button you use to jump/wavedash doesn't really matter. There's really no need to change from Y to X or vice versa.

 

[noobird]

At the beginning it's always a struggle to get down all the advanced techs and stuff you've never used before. It's like walking really. . . just gotta start crawling and eventually it will be as natural as breathing. or eating (well idk if you eat but yeah).

The rolling thing - just consciously tell yourself not to roll. even if your shield is dying... just don't roll. spot dodge or do something oos instead. now i'm not saying you never roll ever - this just helps you get out of the habit really fast at the beginning so you can implement rolling in your game later

@Beat!

Sometimes it's better to use the control stick to jump - like for ac bairs i can do them one direction fine with y but the other one i have to use control stick + a which is annoying if you want to do a retreating one >.>... maybe my thumb is just too slow .

 

[Maybe]

Everyday I'm SHFFLing!!

But really, SHFFL -> SHB -> Edge hop lasers - Wavedash -> JC Shines -> Pillaring -> Shine cancel grabs
~That's about the order I learned everything in. Fecking love Falco.

 

[Mateo113]

Thanks for all the responses guys, I love how active this forum as a whole is. Especially the Melee part because I don't even play Brawl at all.

@Warhawk- Yeah I think I actually do shffl most of my moves now, the only way for me to actually tell if I pulled off the L-Cancel is if I shine right away. I'll have to practice that in training because I rather chain the shffl with another shffl.
You reall think Dash Dancing isn't that important? I feel like it would be a great step to eliminating my habit of rolling. And yeah thanks for the video link haha, I'm definitely familiar with it, I've seen like all 4 most viewed basic guides to ATs on youtube.


@Jasou: Yeah I saw your video, it's pretty nice and simple but I wonder if you really need to switch the jump button you use for the timing, I feel like you can just use the same button and just wait a little bit more before the jump.

@EmpressOfIce: I've never heard of the empty crate idea, I'll definitely try it, I've heard of either doing a handicapped level 1 bowser or those crates. I'll just do straight shffl nairs with out anything. Someone in another great thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286963 had the advice of just short hopping for 5 minutes without doing a normal jump. Sounds pretty tough to me haha.

@Rubyiris: I added you on aim, I don't use it too often but sometimes I leave it up so maybe I'll notice you on at one point.

@Beat!: I've heard that it doesn't really matter too much, Right now I'm in between the two buttons so I really need to decide on one.

@noobird I'm just going to consciously try my self not to roll, I actually don't know what a spot dodge is? I'm going to assume it's when you shield and press a direction and he dodges in the same spot haha. (My deductive reasoning)

@Maybe: Pillaring looks awesome but I think it's far away from my current skill level, I can shffl into a shine and then follow up with an normal jump aerial or even a d-air but I can't follow with them to do it again cause normally they are hit at an angle that goes too far away from me to follow fast enough. Basically it is unanimous that I need to get shuffling down.

Thanks everybody!

 

[oliman]

just sayin... rolling isnt always bad. learn when and where you can roll (i.e. away from jigglypuff, peach if your opponent isn't amazing coughmangocough)

 

[Jasou]

I thought that too at first, but switching it really helped me because the b's have to be right after.

but do it with whatever is the most comfortable, even if it means it's not your normal buttons you press.

o and something I forgot to add in the video. You also might wanna move forward in between the lasers, that's kinda important haha.

 

[Beat!]

@Beat!: I've heard that it doesn't really matter too much, Right now I'm in between the two buttons so I really need to decide on one.

There are players who use both, for different things/situations (iirc Shiz does this), so deciding on one isn't actually a MUST.

It's important to keep in mind that the only thing that really matters is that you should be able to execute whatever is necessary for a given situation. HOW you execute it doesn't matter. If you can maintain consistent tech skill even if you're using different buttons for everything, then go for it.

 

[Rubyiris]

What about windows live messenger?

Windows live messenger is MSN, last I checked. @Hotmail and @Live use the same service.

@The others:

I use Y for most situations because it's closest to B, and the same distance to A. I use X for instant double jumps, and UP for frame-perfect uairs, bair spacing, and out of shield options.

I use Y for everything shield related. I also removed the spring for easier power shielding. I've learned how to wavedash out of shield with the smaller trigger, but it's really hard. also if you're really careful, you can still light shield with it, which I've been learning isn't nearly as good as I thought it was. With the lower shield stun, you can punish things you couldn't otherwise.

When I was learning technical skill, I played with people as often as I could. Rather than doing the "practice, then try it in-game." approach, I trained myself on the fly. Between stocks, at first, then I began to progressively attempt it more and more in matches. It allowed me to more quickly add it to my game as I learned when it did, and did not work.

When I DO practice alone, I approach it several ways. For the musically inclined, think abut scales. For the artistic, think about contour drawing, gesture drawing, etc. You do the same thing hundreds, if not thousands of times to create that muscle memory, and understanding for how the technique is executed, making way for learning different, or more difficult techniques. I would sometimes spend hours just practicing one thing, until I just couldn't stand it anymore. My other approach is a little different. I freestyle in versus mode. I use the name entry glitch, or put another human player in the mix with infinite time. I use this to really LEARN the stage. You familiarize yourself with the environment. You learn how your characters move set interracts with the stage. You learn what moves barely hit under the platform from below it, or which moves hit below the stage for edge guarding. You learn how to waveland onto platforms, how much room you have to move around, how much room you have to do varying distance short hops, how to space edge cancels, etc. during this process, I also practice my ability to consistently fast fall EVERYTHING, as well as my ability to consistently l-cancel at different heights and timings, and how to immediately dash ASAP.

Finally, I practice versus objects. Now, I don't know if it's just ME, but any computer over level 1 doesn't really change their DI up, despite most people saying they do. I have observed that any computer level 2 or higher will merely SDI up more, and more as you get closer to 9, and they will jab, grab your shield, and power shield at an increased rate. It makes it only really worth it to practice level 1 computers. Level 2+ WILL DI throws, but it's based off which direction your character is facing, so it doesn't really help. Versus level 1 computers, I learn the nuances of my character's moves. This is where my creative juices get flowing. This is where you WANT to experiment. I practice generic bread and butter combos, but I also practice different ways of comboing. I try out different moves, and make a mental note of which percentage I hit them at, what hitbox hit them, where on their body I hit them, and what part of the stage they were at when I did. I will do this for HOURS just beating the **** out of the level 1 computer, but in the process I'm learning new ways to combo, and I'm getting more consistent at the mean time.

The problem is that lower level players can develop habits based off how the computer reacts to you, and how they DI your moves, and this is fine. All you need to do is acknowledge the possibility of developing habits, and just actively remind yourself to not fall in to this trap. If you do, you just need to break the habit. Analyze your own play. Maybe ask your friend(s) to also, and figure out what you could be doing differently. Usually after a few games, or an hour or so, you'll get back in the groove of playing versus a human being.

 

[Mateo113]

@Jasou I was tryin it for fun today and I think i use y button as it gaurantees the lasers are low for me kinda like you said. However I only shoot out one laser, I forget know if iw as dropping off ledge with back or down but i know i use back if i want to recover with a b-air. I can use down but i barely get on to the edge which sometimes you want i guess.

@Beat! I agree with that, I've been using a mix of the two i noticed and it doesn't really make too much of a difference. Or at least not a noticeable one.

Well today I practiced trying the empty barrels but on very high there were a little too many. I also tried the name entry glitch one player but didn't get the timing right.

I tried practicing the L-Cancelling and realized I'm worse at it than I thought. I was talking to Rubyiris on aim and we think that I am definitely just holding the L-button down too long. Sometimes I get the L cancel and can tell with a shine but a lot of times I end up just crouching so we decided to check if I did it correctly I will just do a quick dash.

However the worst problem I have which made us think i hold it down too long is that my shield comes out (I think it will come out even faster with a correct L-cancel?) but yeah a lot of times my shield will pop out for a second when I try to L cancel. I have the Fast fall down pretty well and was just doing short hop n-airs and fast falling and then ATTEMPTING to L-cancel haha. I tried a level 1 bowser with handicap on me of 5.

For ****s and giggles I tried the shine stalled up b on the ledge, it's pretty sweet and not too hard. I don't know how to do the phantasm but whatever that's far after I learn to L-cancel.

Well just wanted to update you guys, I'll just keep practicing L-Cancelling the short hop aerials and dash after to see if i did it right.

Oh and one more thing, this week I learned about how useful the c-stick was for off the edge aerials. It prevents me from fast falling to my death haha and i use it for recovering from the ledge with an attack. I was just wondering how much you guys use it.

 

[Jasou]

Some players c-stick almost all their aerials (I think Mango, please correct me if I'm wrong), some c-stick almost none (Dr.PP). Those two players are some of the worlds best, so really it's just what is comfortable. I only use the c-stick for my dairs, but it is suggested to use the c-stick because that way you can do those off the edge spikes easier (like you said), but c-sticking is also useful for retreating aerials like when you want to bair but move forward at the same time.

and @ your question. You need to make sure you start the first laser as your coming up from your jump. I use down, eventually you'll get the timing right. Practice it until you can't sd, it's a really useful technique.

 

[Warhawk]

I'd recommend c-sticking it for you off-stage down-airs as well as your shffl'd up-airs. Alot of times when you try to do a shffl'd up-air with the control stick you'll end up using your double-jump and messing up the shffl'd up-air.

 

[Warhawk]

You reall think Dash Dancing isn't that important? I feel like it would be a great step to eliminating my habit of rolling.

Its not that its not important, its just for Falco its not as important as it would be for other characters. Usually you dashdance to confuse and/or pressure your opponent and limit some of their options, but Falco's laser game is in many cases better for putting pressure on your opponent and can force many options from them. Not saying it doesn't have its uses even for Falco but it would be better to focus on mastering your laser game to start out.

 

[Rubyiris]

Its not that its not important, its just for Falco its not as important as it would be for other characters. Usually you dashdance to confuse and/or pressure your opponent and limit some of their options, but Falco's laser game is in many cases better for putting pressure on your opponent and can force many options from them. Not saying it doesn't have its uses even for Falco but it would be better to focus on mastering your laser game to start out.

Your understanding of dashdance is flawed. First and foremost dash dance is a way to study, rather than confuse. Using your characters mobility, you weave in and out of your opponents range to gauge their comfort zone. You make mental notes for when they try to attack. You then begin to harass their space until you make a mistake, or they reach and get punished.

Secondly, its a form of spacing. Dashing back, then attacking at a better position is the other main use for dash dance.

Using Ito "confuse" someone isn't what its used for anymore, really.

Also IMHO Falco's dash dance is extremely under rated. As people learn more and more how to beat his gun, you need to learrn how to mix it up with a very fluid, versatile dash dance, mixing in quick dashes, slower, more rhythmic ones, and the popular initial dash > wavedash movement technique falcos are making a main part of their game to compensate for his slow run.

 

[FoxLisk]

for once i totally agree with ruby! nice high-level explanation of dash dancing.

edit: my only addition is that I think there may be some ambiguity about the word "confuse." I certainly use different numbers/lengths of DD's to bait something, which someone could easily classify as 'confusing' my opponent even though its really more akin to conditioning. That's another use for it that Ruby didn't specifically mention.

Mateo, I would say using a 5-handicap is no better than using a 9, which lets you dair shine more times before having to kill the CPU, so just go for it. you have to learn to l-cancel, and it just takes a lot of practice, so do it a little bit every day 'til it's down pat.

the other thing is i believe (and i could be totally wrong; im using memory instead of search function cause im lazy) that mango and PP both use the D-stick for all their aerials. IIRC PP says he does this but advocates using C-stick cause it's easier but he learned with the D-stick. However, almost everyone who isn't them uses the c-stick as far as I know.*
IMHO the C-stick is way easier and you can definitely get to the top level with both, so just use whatever's comfortable. Your performance is gonna end up relying on your ability to space, read, and execute, and whether you execute with the C-stick or the D-stick is negligible compared to the rest of your game.

*known exceptions: Isai, maybe Lovage. All this info is subject to change if I'm corrected.

 

[Warhawk]

I more meant more pressure by my post but yeah I agree.

 

[Mateo113]

Alright well I got a lot of good smashing in today haha. Even practiced my L-cancelling by myself with bowser for fun and then falco. It actually improved a lot but unfortunately it was by myself and in the air and I did a lot of good L-cancels, I realized my previous problem was i wasn't releasing L-button fast enough and was L-cancelling way too early. I use c-stick for d-airs and attack before i do the fast fall and it works pretty well. Unfortunately I found out that there is a hit lag when I actually hit a person haha so I have to 1. Fast fall a litte later 2. Actually hit the L-cancel later. So it's gonna take me some more practicing to actually get it with people. I also need to practice fast falling from different heights because its not always just going to be a straight short hop and a lot of times I'll be running and then short shopping.

Oh side note, i played with a bunch of friends and had to bust out Captain Falcon to get a few knees in because thats when i can bust some heads haha. It was soooo fun although I suck at short hopping with him and can't recover from the edge with a knee but seriously he will be my secondary 100 percent once I get better. I mean he already is but I will actually get good with him after Falco.

@Jasou: I've decided to also use the c-stick for my d-airs. It makes it easier for me to fast fall.

 

[Jasou]

Alright well I got a lot of good smashing in today haha. Even practiced my L-cancelling by myself with bowser for fun and then falco. It actually improved a lot but unfortunately it was by myself and in the air and I did a lot of good L-cancels, I realized my previous problem was i wasn't releasing L-button fast enough and was L-cancelling way too early. I use c-stick for d-airs and attack before i do the fast fall and it works pretty well. Unfortunately I found out that there is a hit lag when I actually hit a person haha so I have to 1. Fast fall a litte later 2. Actually hit the L-cancel later. So it's gonna take me some more practicing to actually get it with people. I also need to practice fast falling from different heights because its not always just going to be a straight short hop and a lot of times I'll be running and then short shopping.

Oh side note, i played with a bunch of friends and had to bust out Captain Falcon to get a few knees in because thats when i can bust some heads haha. It was soooo fun although I suck at short hopping with him and can't recover from the edge with a knee but seriously he will be my secondary 100 percent once I get better. I mean he already is but I will actually get good with him after Falco.

@Jasou: I've decided to also use the c-stick for my d-airs. It makes it easier for me to fast fall.

That's good and you will get used to it eventually.

and yeah captain falcon is fun.

 

[Iamafalco]

Hey im dedicated as much as you, its just that I live in a small community with almost no smash players. i play with my neighbour and brother but im so better then them so yknow =D .like i said before i made that thread I didnt even know what l cancelling was. and now I play at least 60% of what shiz does with falco. unfortunately I have let go of falco and picked up marth and fox and jiggs. i only jiggs to troll my brother. fox is just way to broken i believe. and forget the tier list. his advanced techs are so much more rewarding then falcos. IN my personal opinion. could vary

 

[Bones0]

**** using what's comfortable.

You can't even tell what's going to be comfortable until you're actually good at it. Use Y. At least be ABLE to C-stick aerials. A lot of the time A is fine (like if you are trying to move backwards with a bair then obviously it wouldn't affect you), but sometimes C-stick is almost necessary or at least a lot easier.

 

[Mateo113]

@Iamafalco Sorry if I offended you, I just had a big desire to receive advice and still do.

@Bones0 Yeah I actually use both buttons pretty comfortably it's not a big deal anymore. I also am starting to try to c-stick back A-s cause it seems a lot more powerful for finishers than a neutral A.


Update:
So I've been playing smash a lot lately, had a few off days this week but now I'm back and playing better, I wasn't short hopping enough aerials and was doing full jumps. What percentage of the time should I be short hopping/ I'm thinking a ****ing ton unless the opponent is actually high in the air and i'm trying to continue the combo.

I'm still practicing short hopping and fast falling and l-cancelling. I gota d-air fast fall l-cancelling better than my other ones. I can neutral a SHF alright I usually can either get the L-cancelling or the Fast fall haha, I still have a lot more practice before I get both for every attack.

 

[t3h Icy]

Always cool to see new players. Good luck on your journey! :D

 

[Jasou]

Well PP said that full hopping is never a good idea when approaching (unless you do it once to juke them out/throw them off, maybe), unless they are in the air ofc. Good players can easily punish you for trying to full hop to start your combos. I really noticed this when one of our falco players tried to full hop approach our best player when he was playing puff. He always does this method to start his combos and he got 4 stocked because of it.

 

[Mateo113]

Well PP said that full hopping is never a good idea when approaching (unless you do it once to juke them out/throw them off, maybe), unless they are in the air ofc. Good players can easily punish you for trying to full hop to start your combos. I really noticed this when one of our falco players tried to full hop approach our best player when he was playing puff. He always does this method to start his combos and he got 4 stocked because of it.

Yeah I completely agree with this now, even in general when ever I full hop against my friends peach I will almost always be punished even with an L-cancel. I just gota keep practicing short hop I guess. I should probably look up a vs. Peach guide, i always lose against my friends Peach but not his other characters if I am actually playing decently.

 

[Jasou]

In fact for reference I can show you the match where he gets owned by our best players puff. (note we are not a high level smash club)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN4cmEG7QEU&feature=g-all
I only saw the first match, but Andrew really abuses AND1's falco for his approach.
and then a good puff vs. falco match by Dr.PP and Hungrybox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL3jFHZm30o

 

[Falcario]

I'm pretty new to these threads and was hoping someone here could help me out. I have two questions about some falco techniques I see used in high level play. When falco is coming from the ledge with double lasers and both shots are fairly low to the ground so they both hit the opponent. How do they both come out so low and on nearly the same plane? I just can't get the hang of it in Training Mode. Also, when shffling, how do you fast-fall Dair? Do you even have to ff, or do you just let him fall naturally then L-cancel into a shine?

 

[Jasou]

I'm pretty new to these threads and was hoping someone here could help me out. I have two questions about some falco techniques I see used in high level play. When falco is coming from the ledge with double lasers and both shots are fairly low to the ground so they both hit the opponent. How do they both come out so low and on nearly the same plane? I just can't get the hang of it in Training Mode. Also, when shffling, how do you fast-fall Dair? Do you even have to ff, or do you just let him fall naturally then L-cancel into a shine?

Excellent, I made a video just for the low lhdl. It's a really easy adv technique once you get it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agP0vAoN8MA&feature=channel_video_title

As for fast-falling Dair, try using the c-stick for dair and/or all your aerials. I think I understand what your asking and I had this problem at first. If you use c-stick it's a lot less complicated. You can do a correct dair shffl with the A button as well, but c-stick is way easier. You should fast fall all your aerials, it will make you a lot faster. Unless your doing dair off the edge (use c-stick for this!) or when you think it would be a bad time to fast fall.

and plus c-stick allows you to do retreating aerials cleaner.

 

[Falcario]

Thanks Jasou! That was a helpful video. I just about got the hang of it, although, I'm not used to having to go from jump to the B button so fast so it's still a little hard for me. I also found out through practicing this that it helps me muliti-shine which I was never really capable of doing before (because I used the figgin' X button to jump.... Derp). Unfortunately my thumb slides a little too close to the A button and causes me to Nair; is that normal?

 

[Jasou]

Multi shine is typical not suggested to practice unless your really fluent at it, I've only seen a handful of players who can do 2 shines when they want to (maybe they don't go for more for some reason, I'm not sure if it's skill or not useful for more then 2). It's a hard adv technique so most people just suggest waveshineing. Waveshineing also can get you behind their shield eliminating their option of shield grabbing you.

and you'll get used to the jumping between buttons thing.

 

[Mateo113]

Alright time to update with my Falco Status.

Well I have been practicing L-Cancelling, short hopping and fast falling (basically shuffling) and everything is improving. I do wonder though how long is shuffle supposed to take to be pretty fluent. I am not always sure if i l-cancelled correctly i know the point of it etc, but sometimes it is hard to tell. Even my wave dash has gotten better which is weird because i dont even use it but now i can do a few in a row every now and then.

I still play with captain falcon and am lovin it. Tried fox today and am considering taking him up too but you guys please tell me if that would just be a bad idea. Fox and Falcons short hop are definitely harder to use. But I love foxes speed and the extra distance with the fire fox and phantasm. Like just the fact that is jumps are way shorter im just faster with him, although i haven't actually played any real people with him yet so maybe i would get my *** handed to me.

Oh and @ Jasou, thanks for the video links, I enjoyed watching the first one actually cause that Falco is actually at my level haha. Minus the suicides he did in the first set, but then again he can shine to b-air i saw one time which i actually ask about later in this post.

Important question, I use c-stick for my u-airs and dairs but i notice that when i try to do back airs and f-airs i usually end up doing a d-air, it seems easier to do it with the a button, I can actually shuffl nuetral airs consecutively playing the comp and then easily do a back air but I am wondering if i should just keep practicing the c-stick.
Sorry for the ****ty wording but basically my question is::
Should I just practice using the c-stick for back airs cause my trouble is that i flick it downward and end up doing nairs pretty often while using the A button is easier to do b-airs. The reason I ask this is because people use c-stick so you can do more Directional Influence while your in the air. I think i just need to practice the c-stick to make sure i flick it more horizontally and not down at all.

Second question, I've been watching some more high level videos and am definitely interested in learning the shine to b-air. Or at least they always seem to use the b-air instead of any other ones. They will shine and immediately do a b-air. My guess is that it is just with the timing and theres no real trick to it but damn thats fast, i can't do it at all yet.

Thanks everybody!

Oh P.S
I really want to record some footage, I have no knowledge of capture cards but if someone knows of a cheap capture card that is easy to use I would love to record some stuff so you guys can see where I'm at (aka how bad i am)

 

[Jasou]

Alright time to update with my Falco Status.

Well I have been practicing L-Cancelling, short hopping and fast falling (basically shuffling) and everything is improving. I do wonder though how long is shuffle supposed to take to be pretty fluent. I am not always sure if i l-cancelled correctly i know the point of it etc, but sometimes it is hard to tell. Even my wave dash has gotten better which is weird because i dont even use it but now i can do a few in a row every now and then.

I still play with captain falcon and am lovin it. Tried fox today and am considering taking him up too but you guys please tell me if that would just be a bad idea. Fox and Falcons short hop are definitely harder to use. But I love foxes speed and the extra distance with the fire fox and phantasm. Like just the fact that is jumps are way shorter im just faster with him, although i haven't actually played any real people with him yet so maybe i would get my *** handed to me.

Oh and @ Jasou, thanks for the video links, I enjoyed watching the first one actually cause that Falco is actually at my level haha. Minus the suicides he did in the first set, but then again he can shine to b-air i saw one time which i actually ask about later in this post.

Important question, I use c-stick for my u-airs and dairs but i notice that when i try to do back airs and f-airs i usually end up doing a d-air, it seems easier to do it with the a button, I can actually shuffl nuetral airs consecutively playing the comp and then easily do a back air but I am wondering if i should just keep practicing the c-stick.
Sorry for the ****ty wording but basically my question is::
Should I just practice using the c-stick for back airs cause my trouble is that i flick it downward and end up doing nairs pretty often while using the A button is easier to do b-airs. The reason I ask this is because people use c-stick so you can do more Directional Influence while your in the air. I think i just need to practice the c-stick to make sure i flick it more horizontally and not down at all.

Second question, I've been watching some more high level videos and am definitely interested in learning the shine to b-air. Or at least they always seem to use the b-air instead of any other ones. They will shine and immediately do a b-air. My guess is that it is just with the timing and theres no real trick to it but damn thats fast, i can't do it at all yet.

Thanks everybody!

Oh P.S
I really want to record some footage, I have no knowledge of capture cards but if someone knows of a cheap capture card that is easy to use I would love to record some stuff so you guys can see where I'm at (aka how bad i am)

It sounds like you should just shffl more/get more experience with it. Eventually you can tell when you l-canceled or not. It's most noticeable vs players who will punish you for not l-cancelling(note: a decent peach player will destroy you for not l-cancelling, it has happened to me when I messed up.)

At your experience level playing multiple characters is not a bad idea. You may never know if you like one character more then Falco and it's important to main the character you really like. I play a good side of fox because I used to main him and surprisingly enough my time on falco has made my fox better(because I was inexperienced at fox tech before, not to say that my fox tech is at a good level now.)

Well I like his forward air thanks to Dr.PeePee (note: use it sparingly as it does not have a lot of hitstun, use it how Dr.PP uses it vs Armada at pound V, that was incredible.) I don't think that you will need to do his fair much in the reverse direction(anyone correct me on this? I've never seen it.) As for bair, just keep practicing that c-stick. I don't use the c-stick every time I bair, but when I want to do a retreating aerial I immediately switch to it and it has gotten me a few kills while playing defensive, it is important.

I actually made a thread asking about how to practice shine bairs, because I wasn't sure mine were fast. Go into normal melee, turn damage ratio to 2.0 and set the cpu as a lv 1 falcon on fd. The shine will kill him off the top if you don't shine bair fast enough. As for shine bairing you can jump towards falcon > shine > double jump cancel the shine (you should use the joystick to jump for this situation imo) > bair using the c-stick.

Well since I actually just showed another friend of mine over the internet what recording program I use I can post the link again. http://www.gamingbits.com/gene*ral-gaming-news-bits/diamond-o*ne-touch-video-capture-vc500-r*eview/
Sadly I could not refind the page on Amazon that I bought it from, but this is the exact program I used (Thanks to Metal Reeper for showing me this). It's pretty cheap and the quality is not that bad imo. There are some occasional audio desynchs tho :/

and btw, anyone can correct any of my information if they think it is wrong or they can explain it better. I probably do not have as much experience as a Falco player as most Falco players in this part of smashboards.

 

[wezai]

I remember when I was learning Falco. Ahh good times.

Ledge double-laser can be tricky. I always jump with X but for that move I use Control-Stick, you will have a greater and precise timing to shoot your laser right after jumping without needing to go through that much effort (it was painful for me to use my left thumb at first).

If you know spacing well, the rest comes naturally (if you play often).

Get a friend and ask him to do DI, ASDI, SDI, Teching and etc while you practice your combos, that will work wonders. Really helped me to be a better player. Playing "competitive" casual matches with friends help too, specially if they are better or the same level as you are.

Things you can practice alone are L-cancelling, doing all the kind of "monkey" stuff on ledges, getting a better laser timing, wave-dashing... I'm sure there's more, but those are on the top of my head right now. But if you really want to practice the real deal, get help from a friend.

 

[Jasou]

I remember when I was learning Falco. Ahh good times.

Ledge double-laser can be tricky. I always jump with X but for that move I use Control-Stick, you will have a greater and precise timing to shoot your laser right after jumping without needing to go through that much effort (it was painful for me to use my left thumb at first).

If you know spacing well, the rest comes naturally (if you play often).

Get a friend and ask him to do DI, ASDI, SDI, Teching and etc while you practice your combos, that will work wonders. Really helped me to be a better player. Playing "competitive" casual matches with friends help too, specially if they are better or the same level as you are.

Things you can practice alone are L-cancelling, doing all the kind of "monkey" stuff on ledges, getting a better laser timing, wave-dashing... I'm sure there's more, but those are on the top of my head right now. But if you really want to practice the real deal, get help from a friend.

I definitely agree. Playing vs a person better or on your skill level is definitely the best practice. It's especially great when they are good enough to punish bad habits, missed techical things, and combos you'd think would work but really don't. I have a person I practice with a lot and it's made me a lot better because he is on a equal if not better skill level then me most of the time and he punishes me if I ever fail to l-cancel.

 

[Mateo113]

Alright thanks for the feed back guys, yeah usually my roommates and I play but since we're on break i only see on them regularly and he is probably a little bit better than me with one certain characters. I have been practicing shuffling on my own and it is definitely getting better. I mainly have to work on my fast fall actually, sometimes i do it too early before he hits the exact peak of the jump. However after i noticed you have more time to fast fall, like the window of fast falling is bigger after the peak of the jump.

That capture card looks decent, its got mixed reviews on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-VC500...60I8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325611397&sr=8-1

What I'm worried about is making sure they work with gamecube although I would prefer that they work with gamecube and ps3.

About the shine to b-airs, ive seen some Mango videos where he literally almost does it immediately, is that using the Control stick to jump? The way you talk about the lvl 1 Falcon scenario makes it sound like your putting him in the air first and then your jumping to follow him into a b-air. The mango videos he literally shines and barely jumps to do the b-air?

Also I tried the double low laser yesterday but to no avail. I can either get a high and a low laser or just a single really low laser, then again i haven't tried using the left control stick to jump like Wezai said.