New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Guel]

We all liked them, but there is SO much more potential. I don't think I'm alone in believing that you're thinking too small. Why make clones at all when you can do fully fleshed out, entirely new characters

This.

Also there's no way people actually return to melee for Pichu and young link lol. I've played melee for 14 years and heavily played with both. A young link skin is all that's needed for him.

As for Pichu ad much as I love the little guy and want him to return. i want new playstyle entirely. Not just how everyone describes a new character "could be faster, could be slower could hit harder could hit softer" . That's so wack.... Pichu returning as Pichu bros (not my own idea) is really the best route I could see to bring him back.

 

[PseudoTypical]

As for Pichu ad much as I love the little guy and want him to return. i want new playstyle entirely. Not just how everyone describes a new character "could be faster, could be slower could hit harder could hit softer" . That's so wack.... Pichu returning as Pichu bros (not my own idea) is really the best route I could see to bring him back.

I can at least appreciate this for being a novel idea. While I don't want it to take one of the five slots, if PM ever reaches a point where they can add more, I'd welcome Pichu Bros.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Are the new characters limited to brawl or can we pick characters from other smash games' trophies?

Only Brawl.

This is a bit of a long shot but does the Pokemon have to be visually on screen or can it be in the description of a trophy?

They have to exist as their own entity, but at the same time, they shouldn't be present in SSB4 as a playable characater. And just having something related to them or being mentioned doesn't counts.

This.

Also there's no way people actually return to melee for Pichu and young link lol. I've played melee for 14 years and heavily played with both. A young link skin is all that's needed for him.

As for Pichu ad much as I love the little guy and want him to return. i want new playstyle entirely. Not just how everyone describes a new character "could be faster, could be slower could hit harder could hit softer" . That's so wack.... Pichu returning as Pichu bros (not my own idea) is really the best route I could see to bring him back.

That would be a better idea. Not that i support it, but still.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Only Brawl.

They have to exist as their own entity, but at the same time, they shouldn't be present in SSB4 as a playable characater. And just having something related to them or being mentioned doesn't counts.

That would be a better idea. Not that i support it, but still.

Damn... Because Raichu is mentioned in Pikachu's Brawl trophy by name and my next candidate is too. Froslass from gen 4 is mentioned in Snowrunt's trophy and Frosslass is 2 new things not added to Smashbros; A ghost and ice type Pokemon, but nvm.

 

[Illusive]

Big supporter of decloning Ganondorf and adding Black Shadow.

Would just like to elaborate on what could be done with Black Shadow.

He could be kept as close as possible to Ganondorf but still have unique animations.
Either Forward Smash or "Warlock Punch" should be him crouching down then headbutting forward (charging like a bull). Maybe "Wizard's foot" could be a forward dive as well. A charged up "punch" would still be true to the games though: https://youtu.be/iEoIM6Vwonw?t=17 . Cover people grabbed by him with electricity to represent that cutscene.
Up Throw should definitely be a throw followed by a jumping headbutt (other characters have animations like that)
Any of the other throws could be a very weak throw with fixed knockack, followed by an explosion when the character stops moving, to represent the Story Mode Chapter 6 from F-Zero GX (go too slow and a bomb goes off).
Up Smash, Down Smash, Down Tilt, Neutral Air and Up Air could be "spinning" kicks (with the same trajectory as Ganondorf's current moves), with a red trail around his feet, to represent the spin attack from F-Zero X, GX and Climax.
The red trail could also be used for stationary moves to represent the "side attack". In general I imagine his attacks being very "flashy".

Like Captain Falcon, his attributes could represent his character just as well as his moves. Give him a very high dash speed (faster than Falcon) but noticeably slow acceleration. Long lasting grabs (including Up Special) could represent his "A" rated grip, as would better ledge characteristics (even things like how long he can hang on the ledge before he automatically drops). "Snaking" could even be represented somehow.

I always imagined him being the sort of character who'd use Landmines and Drone Cars as attacks, or even take the extradimensional elements of Deathborn, but it's not really necessary. Melee Ganondorf with a few subtle F-Zero nods would be enough.

 

[CBO0tz]

Big supporter of decloning Ganondorf and adding Black Shadow.

Would just like to elaborate on what could be done with Black Shadow.

He could be kept as close as possible to Ganondorf but still have unique animations.
Either Forward Smash or "Warlock Punch" should be him crouching down then headbutting forward (charging like a bull). Maybe "Wizard's foot" could be a forward dive as well. A charged up "punch" would still be true to the games though: https://youtu.be/iEoIM6Vwonw?t=17 . Cover people grabbed by him with electricity to represent that cutscene.
Up Throw should definitely be a throw followed by a jumping headbutt (other characters have animations like that)
Any of the other throws could be a very weak throw with fixed knockack, followed by an explosion when the character stops moving, to represent the Story Mode Chapter 6 from F-Zero GX (go too slow and a bomb goes off).
Up Smash, Down Smash, Down Tilt, Neutral Air and Up Air could be "spinning" kicks (with the same trajectory as Ganondorf's current moves), with a red trail around his feet, to represent the spin attack from F-Zero X, GX and Climax.
The red trail could also be used for stationary moves to represent the "side attack". In general I imagine his attacks being very "flashy".

Like Captain Falcon, his attributes could represent his character just as well as his moves. Give him a very high dash speed (faster than Falcon) but noticeably slow acceleration. Long lasting grabs (including Up Special) could represent his "A" rated grip, as would better ledge characteristics (even things like how long he can hang on the ledge before he automatically drops). "Snaking" could even be represented somehow.

I always imagined him being the sort of character who'd use Landmines and Drone Cars as attacks, or even take the extradimensional elements of Deathborn, but it's not really necessary. Melee Ganondorf with a few subtle F-Zero nods would be enough.

If you want a good example of what Ganondorf could look like with his own original moves, check this out:
http://smashboards.com/threads/triforce-ganondorf-mod-version-4-1b.356467/page-22
Even though I personally don't want a Melee Ganon Black Shadow, I still have high hopes that this Ganon mod will inspire the PMDT to do the same changes to his moveset.

 

[RomeDogg]

Or Pichus electricity attacks could have random power surges since he can't control his power as well as Pikachu. By making the electricity moves much more powerful with greater hitboxes at random. Just a silly idea I had because it could help him to become a glass cannon character.

 

[GP&B]

>at random

No.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Or Pichus electricity attacks could have random power surges since he can't control his power as well as Pikachu. By making the electricity moves much more powerful with greater hitboxes at random. Just a silly idea I had because it could help him to become a glass cannon character.

I actually had an idea that involved giving Pichu something like Pikachu's charge taunt, which is an actual move in the Pokemon games that powers up electric moves. kinda like Lucas's OU charge. Based on your idea, which I like btw, if you do charge, your electric moves will always be the strong version with no self damage for like the next three electric moves. Without the charge, the random powered up electric moves will do self damage. You could give him "charge stocks in the same way Lucario has his aura stocks except Pichu's are only obtainable via charge with a max of 2 or 3. This would give his self damage some actual relevance and the concept of Pichu having less control of his electric powers is expressed in his gameplay. I feel like that would make Pichu even as a clone unique in some way. His electric attacks would have a certain probability of having a powerful version at the cost of self damage.

 

[GunBuster]

Totally wish Ganondorf had the ability to stop time in at least one of the zelda games.

Could have had ZA WARUDO level shenanigans, using the timer item's effect in short bursts or something.

But seriously, if he had the ability to make his windows of punishing opportunity longer I imagine it would really quite help. Hell, at this point I'm willing to concede that he could benefit from 1 or 2 moves from that triforce Ganondorf mod. as much as I like playing as him, he is still one of the worst characters - Which is why I don't get why people want black shadow to have his moves - you are inherently just recreating a trash character.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Back again-- how long has it been? More Pichu debates? Some things never change, I suppose...

On-subject. I'd be all in for Plusule and Minun-- the big hurdle I think of when it comes to those two, however, is the question of voice acting. Pichu already has voice acting, etc. that could be ported from Melee, making that character (or the Pichu bros, which is a totally tubular idea) a far more viable pick IMO.

I still think Pichu should have Plasma Kirby's mechanics in Super Star- the more he runs around, the stronger his electric charge gets, allowing him to unleash a powerful Discharge attack. If you build up too much energy, however, you'll start taking damage yourself! (Apologies to you long-time-users who have already heard this idea 8,763,000 times.)

I think the Pichu bros might actually be the better idea however, seeing as the IC's are the only 2-in-1 deal the game really has.

Did I miss anything big?

(This has probably been mentioned already, but Sm4sh newcomers are NOT eligible picks for the P:M clone engine (in order to avoid a potential C&D or any other legal troubles with the big N). In order to be considered, the character has to have appeared in Brawl in some way, shape, or form , whether they appeared as an assist trophy, in a poke ball, as a trophy, or a sticker, ior in the background of a stage, etc.)

 

[GunBuster]

Back again-- how long has it been? More Pichu debates? Some things never change, I suppose...

On-subject. I'd be all in for Plusule and Minun-- the big hurdle I think of when it comes to those two, however, is the question of voice acting. Pichu already has voice acting, etc. that could be ported from Melee, making that character (or the Pichu bros, which is a totally tubular idea) a far more viable pick IMO.

I still think Pichu should have Plasma Kirby's mechanics in Super Star- the more he runs around, the stronger his electric charge gets, allowing him to unleash a powerful Discharge attack. If you build up too much energy, however, you'll start taking damage yourself! (Apologies to you long-time-users who have already heard this idea 8,763,000 times.)

I think the Pichu bros might actually be the better idea however, seeing as the IC's are the only 2-in-1 deal the game really has.

Did I miss anything big?

(This has probably been mentioned already, but Sm4sh newcomers are NOT eligible picks for the P:M clone engine (in order to avoid a potential C&D or any other legal troubles with the big N). In order to be considered, the character has to have appeared in Brawl in some way, shape, or form , whether they appeared as an assist trophy, in a poke ball, as a trophy, or a sticker, ior in the background of a stage, etc.)

The rodent Pichu debate is eternal, even I've come to terms with this.

 

[JCOnyx]

Your concepts are still by far the best I've heard for Pichu. Still doesn't mean I'd want the character over others, but discharge sounds so damn satisfying. Like a Wario Waft on Pikachu. Melee Pichu UpAir - fully charged Discharge sounds like an awfully gross auto-combo tho, but that's just theorycrafting lol.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Your concepts are still by far the best I've heard for Pichu. Still doesn't mean I'd want the character over others, but discharge sounds so damn satisfying. Like a Wario Waft on Pikachu. Melee Pichu UpAir - fully charged Discharge sounds like an awfully gross auto-combo tho, but that's just theorycrafting lol.

Dude there are so many other auto combos that are much worse. The Pichu UpAir in general will knock opponents too high after certain percents. Then you the easiest auto combos like Ganon's down throw chain grab and when they bounce too high to regrab you have that easy ass kill follow up which doesn't require any form of reads since you can Fair or Bair on reaction. Then their's Fox's down throw or upthrow kills. Up throw can only be DI'd up or infront of him. If you include his speed, its always a guaranteed up air except of really light characters. For light characters, you can down throw them into a tech chase which when playing a good fox can easily chase you into an up smash kill. This option works on anyone. G&W has stupid auto combos too. I can list more but if you get the gist of it, Pichu's discharge combo would still be very selective on characters and can only be done with full charge unlike the others I listed who can do it whenever. Pikachu is one of the few characters who doesn't have consistent kill follow up. Once at killing percents, it comes down to reads and raw kill moves. Pikachu has kill follow ups only on fast fallers but only on FD and Smashville. Problem there is that players know this and always ban those stages.

Pichu being a glass canon with some potential kill combos seems nice and with the idea OrangeSodaGuy's or the one Rome and I came up with, I feel Pichu would be able to be his own character and not just a clone. I've heard some say that because Pichu isn't wanted by many, he's not really a candidate. But from what I can see, Pichu has been mentioned many times and wanted. Then as stated by Dem Green Eyes,

The rodent Pichu debate is eternal, even I've come to terms with this.

Its clear that Pichu is a highly wanted character. Its also clear that in terms of creation, Pichu already has sounds and voices to work with, his moveset can be like Fox and Falco, where even tho they have the same moves, they don't do the same things. Then if PMDT wants to, they can give him some new moves or something.

 

[Xermo]

The reality of the situation is that the pmdt will most likely pull a sakurai and throw in pichu (or X clone character) simply because it takes the least amount of man hours while working alongside the original new characters.

 

[Cahalan]

The reality of the situation is that the pmdt will most likely pull a sakurai and throw in pichu (or X clone character) simply because it takes the least amount of man hours while working alongside the original new characters.

That's probably the funniest, yet serious, yet nonchalant answer/reply I've seen all day. But that is probably the most likely case... then again they can also pull a double Sakurai and make pichu a ice climbers/pikachu/melee pichu clone hybrid... thing.

 

[GunBuster]

Wait is this all serious

I can't tell

 

[PseudoTypical]

Wait is this all serious

I can't tell

Me neither...

On a serious note, I think the PMDT will have one "clone" character, or two at most. They must realize that there are way better possibilities for new movesets that are worth taking time to do, even if it is a huge task.

 

[True Fool]

The reality of the situation is that the pmdt will most likely pull a sakurai and throw in pichu (or X clone character) simply because it takes the least amount of man hours while working alongside the original new characters.

I have no problems with clones, I just hope they don't add an 8th pokemon.

 

[GunBuster]

Me neither...

On a serious note, I think the PMDT will have one "clone" character, or two at most. They must realize that there are way better possibilities for new movesets that are worth taking time to do, even if it is a huge task.

hell, during their Reddit AMA's some of the PM animators have stated they're most looking forward to getting unique characters done.

 

[PseudoTypical]

hell, during their Reddit AMA's some of the PM animators have stated they're most looking forward to getting unique characters done.

I believe you, but could I get a source on that? Just curious.

 

[GunBuster]

I believe you, but could I get a source on that? Just curious.

specifically, it was haloedhero's Monday AMA.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBPM/comments/36d2on/amonday_week_26_haloedhero/

not that this is absolute proof of completely new anything, but there's pretty clearly a desire for it from at least the animators.

 

[Cahalan]

On the subject of Pichu, it can go in either of two major directions:
1) the revamped Melee moveset route: Since Pichu has so far only appeared in Melee, we can only guess as to how it would be adapted to Brawl/Project M without being a simple "cut 'n paste" job. The melee model will need to be recreated as the current import has lighting/shader issues and the moveset for Pichu in Project M needs to also be competitively viable in some sort. This would call upon taking the best aspects of pichu from melee (inclunding the self damage mechanic if the PMDT want Pichu to be a glass cannon) and the best of what Smash 64 pikachu could do (In vain of how Toon Link was designed for 3.5).

2) Pichu Bros route: since one of the forbidden 7 was a plusel/minum character ala ice climbers, the Pichu Bros could fill in that role while calling back to Pichu and also Smash 64 Pikachu. There'd also be more room for an original and updated moveset for our favorite glass canon as well this way.

Now onto something even more controversial: Young Link.
IIRC Toon link in Project M is a combination of 64 Link and Melee Young Link with other call backs to Wind Waker thrown in for good measure. However how can we make a 2nd Link variation work? Make Young link based around the unused assets for Brawl Link and have young link be based around combos. The Deku nuts could be the new Down-B and have fixed KB and DMG at all percents to help set up and provide a way for mix ups, Side-B would revive the gale boomerang from Brawl Link, Neutral-B could be the "polar opposite" of Toon Links Fire Arrows (Ice arrows if you couldn't get the joke), and Up-B can be a multi-hit spin attack that has more horizontal movement if used in the air. While we're at it, Young Link's other attacks can be changed as well (for reference, see how Young Links other moves were changed in the beta moveset of Young Link over Link currently on the Brawl Vault, his dash attack is a roll attack in example).

Other unique aspects can be thrown in as well: if our Young Link still has the Deku Shield, make it "burn up" if hit with any fire based attacks and be "gone" for the current stock; Stone Tower's Mirror Shield could reflect elemental projectiles back at an increased DMG output; his Hylian Shield from OoT could have him duck and cover to be able to gain armor for attacks that have downwards facing hit boxes (i.e the perfect counter to Kirby's Stone form).

 

[GP&B]

I'd actually rather have Young Link rep the portable games instead, using the variety of unique items from them. Of course, the problem from there would be generating brand new articles.

 

[Cahalan]

I'd actually rather have Young Link rep the portable games instead, using the variety of unique items from them. Of course, the problem from there would be generating brand new articles.

So using items like the magnet gloves? I like your thinking!

 

[GP&B]

Haha, I was precisely thinking the Magnet Gloves.

 

[Cahalan]

Haha, I was precisely thinking the Magnet Gloves.

Young Link confirmed to have a hidden command grab with insane range...
better nerf greninja!

 

[GunBuster]

...and have young link be based around combos.

and Toon Link isn't?

 

[Cahalan]

and Toon Link isn't?

Whoops.. my bad...
(insert Pheonix Wright Gif here)

Okay then, how would a revitalized Young Link the harkons more to Awakening and Ages/Seasons work? Since Toon Link is about combos and regular Link is more towards the "neutral game" and being a overall smart player (by "playing" your opponent so-to-speak), how would a Young Link based around spacing, heavy punishes, hard reads, and gimping sound?

Ice Arrows could potentially be deadly if they actually freeze (note: they don't linger like Tinks fire arrows when landing on the stage), Deku Nuts could be used to punish as a reward for hard reads (as getting a Deku Nut would take longer/have more end lag when thrown) , his Gale Boomerang (stolen from Regular Link since the PMDT took it out)/the magnet gloves would lure in the opponent for a kill move, his Up B would be changed to have impressive height compared to the other links (the feather causes this) and being a multi-hit spin attack while grounded but would be weaker unless the player charges for a decently long time (adding another reward for hard reads, and giving a bit more range on the spin like in OoT).

Young Link's dash roll (his dash attack) would be a nice way to approach other players; but to truly pay homage to the portable games (and the really much older zelda titles), his smash attacks would use items like the Cane of Byrna , the magnet gloves, the shovel, and his fair would be using the switch hook to "switch places" with the opponent if within range (but if missed, puts you in free fall and possibly in a much worse position off stage).

TLDR;
Neutral B: Ice Arrows (Ice arrows could freeze, proving to be effective for gimps)
Side B: Gale Boomerang (Lure in opponents for the kill thanks to the revival of the Gale Boomerang)
Down B: Deku Nuts (You always have them to use, but it results in more end lag after being thrown)
Up B: "Terminan Spin" (Is the highest of the three Links, but is weaker and is only as strong as Links at full charge, however it is a multi hit on the ground and the range increases up to a certain point as you charge up along with a bit of a vacuum effect ala Luigi's Tornado)

Young Link is more of a punish character who profits from good, hard reads and has a more viable recovery and deadly gimping but at the cost of being lighter and more susceptible to damage/KB. His throws, thanks to the power glove (it's so bad), throw the opponent much farther than the other links but are in fact weaker (but are reprimanded thank to YL's speed) and suffer do to YL's poor grab range. YL's fair is meant to be a kill move due to switching places with your opponent if it lands.

 

[True Fool]

I'd rather not get Young Link personally. Skull Kid, Impa, Ganon, Tetra, or even Toon Ganondorf would be a better use of another Zelda rep rather than a 3rd Link if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong though, I like Young Link, and I'm certain I'd enjoy playing as him. I just think our limited resources could be used better elsewhere.

 

[Cahalan]

I'd rather not get Young Link personally. Skull Kid, Impa, Ganon, Tetra, or even Toon Ganondorf would be a better use of another Zelda rep rather than a 3rd Link if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong though, I like Young Link, and I'm certain I'd enjoy playing as him. I just think our limited resources could be used better elsewhere.

To be honest and frank, pichu has a better chance than Young Link in terms of remaining veterans (of which there are two, Pichu and YL... unless you want Doc to be a separate character and revamp FLUDD that is). I was thinking out loud about how would Pichu and YL might work if they do manage to get added (officially). Aside from the leak (a person from Golden Sun, a Fire Emblem Lady, a guy who doesn't chuckle, and a girl from Advance Wars) and factoring in the "No Smash 4 people rule" (in which Little Mac is as Grey as Project M's legality), there's still alot of poeple to choose from, but the movesets for a good chunk of the possible candidates would have to be made from the ground up (for those who only have a model in SSBB that is, Assist Trophies are a bit easier to build off of).

Although Ridley actually has a decent chance of getting added IMO...

 

[True Fool]

To be honest and frank, pichu has a better chance than Young Link in terms of remaining veterans (of which there are two, Pichu and YL... unless you want Doc to be a separate character and revamp FLUDD that is). I was thinking out loud about how would Pichu and YL might work if they do manage to get added (officially). Aside from the leak (a person from Golden Sun, a Fire Emblem Lady, a guy who doesn't chuckle, and a girl from Advance Wars) and factoring in the "No Smash 4 people rule" (in which Little Mac is as Grey as Project M's legality), there's still alot of poeple to choose from, but the movesets for a good chunk of the possible candidates would have to be made from the ground up (for those who only have a model in SSBB that is, Assist Trophies are a bit easier to build off of).

Although Ridley actually has a decent chance of getting added IMO...

I actually would have very little complaints if we just got 5 Assist Trophy upgrades. Isaac, Lyn, Waluigi, Grey Fox, Goroh. Would rather steer clear of Tingle and Shadow though. Too bad Smash 4 kinda wrecked Little Mac for us though.

If the leak that shall not be named is true, I'll be satisfied. But Ridley would be cool, or even Dark Samus. Though Sylux is my secret wish for a Metroid rep.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

I know Micaiah has been added to the candidates list but has anyone talked about her moveset? For anyone who has played Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, they'd know about her close relationship with Sothe. He's basically her body guard/best and childhood friend who would prefer to not leave her side. These are only a few ideas but I can imagine her having a down B counter which would work like Lucario's brawl counter but instead of her disappearing, she puts her hands up in a defensive position and Sothe quickly appears and hits the enemy then goes away again. Up B could be Sothe appears and does some quick hit to give her some kind of hitbox before ascending and grabs her hand then throws her up towards the stage. She would not go into a free fall state but loses the ability to do any B moves till grabbing the ledge, landing on stage or getting hit. What are your opinions?

 

[Cahalan]

I know Micaiah has been added to the candidates list but has anyone talked about her moveset? For anyone who has played Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, they'd know about her close relationship with Sothe. He's basically her body guard/best and childhood friend who would prefer to not leave her side. These are only a few ideas but I can imagine her having a down B counter which would work like Lucario's brawl counter but instead of her disappearing, she puts her hands up in a defensive position and Sothe quickly appears and hits the enemy then goes away again. Up B could be Sothe appears and does some quick hit to give her some kind of hitbox before ascending and grabs her hand then throws her up towards the stage. She would not go into a free fall state but loses the ability to do any B moves till grabbing the ledge, landing on stage or getting hit. What are your opinions?

That'd be interesting as it would be a step up from the Chrom/Robin relationship in Smash 4, but then who would Micaiah be a "clone" of? Fundamentally it would be the IC's, but then the whole sound bank thing would have to be figured out as well. At least it's more doable in concept... right?

 

[GunBuster]

I know Micaiah has been added to the candidates list but has anyone talked about her moveset? For anyone who has played Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, they'd know about her close relationship with Sothe. He's basically her body guard/best and childhood friend who would prefer to not leave her side. These are only a few ideas but I can imagine her having a down B counter which would work like Lucario's brawl counter but instead of her disappearing, she puts her hands up in a defensive position and Sothe quickly appears and hits the enemy then goes away again. Up B could be Sothe appears and does some quick hit to give her some kind of hitbox before ascending and grabs her hand then throws her up towards the stage. She would not go into a free fall state but loses the ability to do any B moves till grabbing the ledge, landing on stage or getting hit. What are your opinions?

that that's an entirely other character model you'd have to accommodate for. While I'm not savvy on the technical aspect of smash hacking, projectiles/articles are complicated as it is, i'd imagine this would be borderline impossible.

That'd be interesting as it would be a step up from the Chrom/Robin relationship in Smash 4, but then who would Micaiah be a "clone" of? Fundamentally it would be the IC's, but then the whole sound bank thing would have to be figured out as well. At least it's more doable in concept... right?

though he's specified Sothe would only appear and vanish for the attacks he needs to, remember the Ike climbers

a duo team wouldn't Necessarily have to be based on the ice climbers.

 

[Cahalan]

that that's an entirely other character model you'd have to accommodate for. While I'm not savvy on the technical aspect of smash hacking, projectiles/articles are complicated as it is, i'd imagine this would be borderline impossible.



though he's specified Sothe would only appear and vanish for the attacks he needs to, remember the Ike climbers

a duo team wouldn't Necessarily have to be based on the ice climbers.

Good point, but building off of a character that makes use of two models in the moveset already is more efficient than integrating a new model that functions like Luma or Popo/Nana one some one like Marth as the base is more difficult from a design stand point (that is what I've originally tried to say). Sothe as suggested would have a Rosalin/Luma relationship.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

...

...

I wasn't thinking IC's, but like Dem Green Eyes said, where he only appears for the moves. Her Up B would like G&W where the trampoline guys appear briefly then he goes away. Sothe's counter animation could be like Sheik's dash attack but swing his dagger a bit higher so i covers better. His appearance could be ninja like with a brief smoke bomb. Or they could go an alternate route and make his appearances happen in more of a blur to where his character model is actual part of the graphic effects.

As for cloning, her base would be Zelda, with a few new and unique attacks.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Good point, but building off of a character that makes use of two models in the moveset already is more efficient than integrating a new model that functions like Luma or Popo/Nana one some one like Marth as the base is more difficult from a design stand point (that is what I've originally tried to say). Sothe as suggested would have a Rosalin/Luma relationship.

I should probably be more clear. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but when I brought up Sothe and how close he is with Micaiah, including him into a couple moves like the 2 I mentioned were just for the fans to get the references and because he's a big character in her game who plays a big role in her story.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

I already know this idea is impossible, but still want to throw it out there for opinions anyway. If Micaiah were to work similar to Rosilina and Luma, I can see it being like this; Sothe can be called upon using Down B but only while on the ground. Upon appearing he will stay in the spot where he is called out on thus leaving him stationary. While still he will have a hit box with a decent sized area around him that will trigger an attack if an enemy enters it. After an attack he will leave. If Micaiah uses Down B again while he's already out, Sothe will run over to the spot where the input was triggered and attack anyone if they are in his proximity while traveling to said location. If he's moving, the attack trigger hitbox is smaller. He can jump to reach higher locations like platforms, but he cant jump higher than just below battlefield's top platform. If Sothe cant reach the location due to hight or being off stage, he will get as close as he can or stop under the location if the input was pressed in the air. If Micaiah is hit while he's out, Sothe will pretty much smoke bomb teleport to her location and push her away giving her invincibility frames then take the hit for her.

Sothe himself can be hit by disjointed moves or projectiles while moving and standing still. He has HP equal to 20%. If he takes 20% damage from any attacks including protecting Micaiah, he cannot be called upon again. However if you press down B while Sothe is down, Micaiah will use her signature ability called Sacrifice where she heals a target at the cost of her own HP. While healing Sothe she takes 10%. The animation for healing Sothe will just have her put her hand up as a light effect appears then she takes 10%. After that, Sothe will be allowed to be called on again.

 

[GunBuster]

I already know this idea is impossible, but still want to throw it out there for opinions anyway. If Micaiah were to work similar to Rosilina and Luma, I can see it being like this; Sothe can be called upon using Down B but only while on the ground. Upon appearing he will stay in the spot where he is called out on thus leaving him stationary. While still he will have a hit box with a decent sized area around him that will trigger an attack if an enemy enters it. After an attack he will leave. If Micaiah uses Down B again while he's already out, Sothe will run over to the spot where the input was triggered and attack anyone if they are in his proximity while traveling to said location. If he's moving, the attack trigger hitbox is smaller. He can jump to reach higher locations like platforms, but he cant jump higher than just below battlefield's top platform. If Sothe cant reach the location due to hight or being off stage, he will get as close as he can or stop under the location if the input was pressed in the air. If Micaiah is hit while he's out, Sothe will pretty much smoke bomb teleport to her location and push her away giving her invincibility frames then take the hit for her.

Sothe himself can be hit by disjointed moves or projectiles while moving and standing still. He has HP equal to 20%. If he takes 20% damage from any attacks including protecting Micaiah, he cannot be called upon again. However if you press down B while Sothe is down, Micaiah will use her signature ability called Sacrifice where she heals a target at the cost of her own HP. While healing Sothe she takes 10%. The animation for healing Sothe will just have her put her hand up as a light effect appears then she takes 10%. After that, Sothe will be allowed to be called on again.

The ideas you're bringing around utilizing Sothe, while at the very least interesting, in my opinion just have no place in a game as fast paced as Project M. What you're describing is much more like Zelda's Phantom Attack from Sm4sh, just a bit more complicated - new complexity is good, don't get me wrong, but it just seems that something new and simple might be better in most cases. not to mention it's detrimental to Michaiah as a character - relying on someone else for a large part of your attacks seems weakening. it's easily one of the reasons Chrom only shows up for Robin's final smash and victory poses - despite being an easy Ike skin, god damn it sakurai - it shows off their "got your back" best friend mentality, while pushing the character in focus as his own thing.

And just to take note, myself and a lot of people are just not huge on the Idea of Michaiah. her/Ike's game (specifically Radiant Dawn) are overall not from a great point in the FE series, and she's not a very well liked character. The biggest reason she's looked at here is because she'd be a Fire Emblem character who uses magic instead of a blade.

and as an addendum to this, I get salty over her because while it looks like we're getting another FE character on the clone engine (soonTM), people actively want Michaiah to be a clone of Zelda, while, say, Lyndis, is pretty actively pushed to be a completely from-scratch built character cough cough, which is a much better use of one of the slots we have left than a clone for a series that already got a (clone) character from the Clone Engine. if it were to happen, we'd have half the FE cast in Project M be clones - and that just seems wasteful.