New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Grey Belnades]

Oh, alright. If you wanna talk about Lyn being a potential character, that's cool, but discussion of alt costumes for her, Roy or whoever really doesn't belong here.

I think if Lyn was in the game, she should play like a samurai and be really fast.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

A good concept for Pichu that no other Pokemon character has is that he should be a fast faller. Next he should be faster than Pikachu as well. Remove the self damge thing all together because that isn't even a real thing in Pokemon. It only happened 1 time in 1 Pokemon special with the Pichu bros. If you want to keep the self damage thing make it reasonable. For example, Pikachu's side b (skull bash) is pretty useless and is only used to resist knock back during offstage recovery. Pichu in the games is 1st one in his evolutionary line that learns Volt Tackle which is the strongest physical electric attack that isn't exclusive to a legendary Pokemon. It also has heavy recoil that does half of the damage dealt back to the user. Change Pichu's side B to volt tackle (which would be skull bash with more electricity) and make its charge like DK or Sheik's neutral b where it can be stored and stopped mid charge and continued again. I can see this being used during combos and grab follow ups or even tech reads. Make his Thunder cloud much lower so that it comes down faster then give it the same multi hit juggle from melee so that he can follow up into combos. Those 2 moves with my idea variations seem pretty good and potentially too good which giving him the self damage is reasonable compensation. Self damage is something I'd expect to see from a move thats either really powerful or show some reasonable self harm during the attack. Volt Tackle canonically hurts the user upon contact but not during a miss. His Fair could be like Sonic's but with his tail, where it can meteor with a sweet spot. Many of his moves can be changed or tweaked to be more than a Pikachu clone. With the current things I listed Pichu doesn't kill off the top with thunder, but instead uses it as a juggling/combo move, side b has real use and can be used like Luigi's misfire but can hold a full charge anytime. To compensate with that as a powerful attack option that only requires you to charge it, self damage upon a non blocked hit will deal half damage back. His Fair isn't a multi hit and can kill off stage with a meteor or bounce them up if meteored on stage into an aerial. Once at really high percentages over 120% it can possibly kill depending on DI and distance from the side blast zones. Literally Sonic's Fair. All of his other moves can be tweaked and adjusted from the melee versions to be more viable. 1 thing in melee that I feel needs to be changed for PM is that Pichu's hight was potentially too small. However his full hight should be a bit shorter than Squirtle then with the addition of his ears he would be a bit taller than Squirtle but shorter than Pikachu.

 

[JohnTwo]

[/spoiler]A good concept for Pichu that no other Pokemon character has is that he should be a fast faller. Next he should be faster than Pikachu as well. Remove the self damge thing all together because that isn't even a real thing in Pokemon. It only happened 1 time in 1 Pokemon special with the Pichu bros. If you want to keep the self damage thing make it reasonable. For example, Pikachu's side b (skull bash) is pretty useless and is only used to resist knock back during offstage recovery. Pichu in the games is 1st one in his evolutionary line that learns Volt Tackle which is the strongest physical electric attack that isn't exclusive to a legendary Pokemon. It also has heavy recoil that does half of the damage dealt back to the user. Change Pichu's side B to volt tackle (which would be skull bash with more electricity) and make its charge like DK or Sheik's neutral b where it can be stored and stopped mid charge and continued again. I can see this being used during combos and grab follow ups or even tech reads. Make his Thunder cloud much lower so that it comes down faster then give it the same multi hit juggle from melee so that he can follow up into combos. Those 2 moves with my idea variations seem pretty good and potentially too good which giving him the self damage is reasonable compensation. Self damage is something I'd expect to see from a move thats either really powerful or show some reasonable self harm during the attack. Volt Tackle canonically hurts the user upon contact but not during a miss. His Fair could be like Sonic's but with his tail, where it can meteor with a sweet spot. Many of his moves can be changed or tweaked to be more than a Pikachu clone. With the current things I listed Pichu doesn't kill off the top with thunder, but instead uses it as a juggling/combo move, side b has real use and can be used like Luigi's misfire but can hold a full charge anytime. To compensate with that as a powerful attack option that only requires you to charge it, self damage upon a non blocked hit will deal half damage back. His Fair isn't a multi hit and can kill off stage with a meteor or bounce them up if meteored on stage into an aerial. Once at really high percentages over 120% it can possibly kill depending on DI and distance from the side blast zones. Literally Sonic's Fair. All of his other moves can be tweaked and adjusted from the melee versions to be more viable. 1 thing in melee that I feel needs to be changed for PM is that Pichu's hight was potentially too small. However his full hight should be a bit shorter than Squirtle then with the addition of his ears he would be a bit taller than Squirtle but shorter than Pikachu.

Oh god.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Oh god.

I expected a bit more feed back than that... Like counter arguments or reasons for why this or that wouldn't work. Or even some kind of criticism at least.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I expected a bit more feed back than that... Like counter arguments or reasons for why this or that wouldn't work. Or even some kind of criticism at least.

For one thing, it's probably being mostly dismissed because it's an intimidating wall of text. Some spacing or organization would help.

In terms of a critique, I don't have much to say in terms of the balance, but there's two simple downfalls: 1) You're trying to balance the character that was designed to be bad, and 2) You seem to be suggesting that Pichu (a joke character in the minds of many) is more worthy for one of five potential slots than most candidates on the list. With that in mind, it's not very convincing, though I'd like to see him again (still weak though) provided there's no longer a limitation on character slots in the future.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

I completely understand, also, I know I spaced many parts of that, but do I need to do codes for it rather than pressing enter? Still new here is all. As for Pichu, even tho he was intended to be a "joke" character, thats pretty much trusting the guy who said he doesn't want smash bros to be competitive yet in every later installment, he still has tourney mode, online ranking systems, and for a game thats supposed to not be competitive, they patch Smash4 a lot to balance a non competitive game.


Here is my next thing to defend Pichu's "joke" of a character. Roy wasn't intended to be a joke, but he was garbage compared to all the viable characters. Ganon was "garbage" until Bizzaro flame showed how wrong we are. Peach was probably another unexpected viable character too. Now while Pichu still has yet to be proven to have any worth as a melee character, PM is supposed to be a game where every character is balanced out and made better to hold their own against others. Roy has been redone to be his own character as have many others. Now while this thread has made it apparent that clones are easier to create from a base, Pichu is literally Roy to Marth.

Next point, Lucario was completely different in brawl and like many other characters he received a whole new play style with new abilities. Pichu is open for so much creativity to make him his own character. I dont see how having Pichu in PM is that different than having Samus and ZSS. Both are the same person but have 2 totally different movesets. As I stated repeatedly Pichu is open to change and creativity. Pus he is a previous smash game veteran.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I completely understand, also, I know I spaced many parts of that, but do I need to do codes for it rather than pressing enter? Still new here is all. As for Pichu, even tho he was intended to be a "joke" character, thats pretty much trusting the guy who said he doesn't want smash bros to be competitive yet in every later installment, he still has tourney mode, online ranking systems, and for a game thats supposed to not be competitive, they patch Smash4 a lot to balance a non competitive game.


Here is my next thing to defend Pichu's "joke" of a character. Roy wasn't intended to be a joke, but he was garbage compared to all the viable characters. Ganon was "garbage" until Bizzaro flame showed how wrong we are. Peach was probably another unexpected viable character too. Now while Pichu still has yet to be proven to have any worth as a melee character, PM is supposed to be a game where every character is balanced out and made better to hold their own against others. Roy has been redone to be his own character as have many others. Now while this thread has made it apparent that clones are easier to create from a base, Pichu is literally Roy to Marth.

Next point, Lucario was completely different in brawl and like many other characters he received a whole new play style with new abilities. Pichu is open for so much creativity to make him his own character. I dont see how having Pichu in PM is that different than having Samus and ZSS. Both are the same person but have 2 totally different movesets. As I stated repeatedly Pichu is open to change and creativity. Pus he is a previous smash game veteran.

I see what you're getting at, but it's not just a matter of updating a moveset. Pichu is a character, namely the pipsqueak baby form of Pikachu, who himself is only granted the power to be successful because of fandom. Not saying Sakurai makes good balancing/competitive decisions, but Pichu just isn't tough. Furthermore, even if he were made to be tough, there's plenty of characters that would give the game a lot more diversity, new content and fan appeal (despite the large number of Pichu fans). Lastly, him being in a previous game doesn't much justify it. I think at most he could be excused as an alt costume considering Pikachu could have previously been Pichu (see Brawl theories on that).

EDIT: Also, concerning spacing, you should just need to press enter twice, like you would writing an email or something.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

What I dont get is why doesn't the PMDT use the brawl EX system so that they can have more freedom to add characters and avoid the current limitations? I'm not asking for over a hundred characters, but I think it would make it easier for them to do more of what they want and not have to fit everything in the current amount of space they limit themselves to. Then again I'm sure thats been considered, so I dont know why they wouldn't. With that in mind they could create a Lucina alt for Marth with voices but dont change anything about Marth's gameplay. Pichu I feel would be more difficult to do as an alt because his body would need to be altered to fit Pikachu's hurt boxes. Mainly the tail. His ears could easily be used to fit Pikachu's overall height but the tail hurtbox is more of an issue. Well... maybe not since Pikachu's tail hurtbox only covers half of the tail with some disjointedness to it, Pichu's visible tail would fit the current hurtboxes and during tail attacks they could do that cartoon body expansion thing that Yoshi and some other characters do for the tail to visually reach to Pikachu's length.

 

[AceGamer]

They don't use Brawl EX because it's more unstable than the clone engine, Lucina won't be a costume because they don't want to change a characters identity in their alt costumes.

As for your Pichu ideas 1st off him being faster than Pikachu would be redundant because Pikachu himself is already fast, PMDT brought Mewtwo and Roy back because they were the most missed Melee veterans and would generate the most hype, Pichu coming back won't bring that much people to PM, neither would Young Link or Dr. Mario (thank God he's just a costume lol)

And plz don't mention Smash 4 as a way to justify the original and the clone both being fast, Smash 4 clones are the worst of any Smash game and they're all worse than their originals lmao

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Some bull **** filled with contradictions and clear signs of reading inability.

1st off, Pikachu doesn't even make the top 10 in PM's running speed,thus Pichu being both faster and a fast faller are not redundant. His speed could be on par with Lucario which the speed increase will greatly improve his mobility, allowing him to have more of a Punish game than Pikachu's lack of one. His slow speed and floatiness made it hard for him to do anything in melee not including his weight and non canon self damage gimmick.

2nd. Did you seriously just try to justify Pichu's physique as reason he can't be faster than Pikachu? Even tho toon link and young link were both faster than adult link? You know that their muscles and underdeveloped bodies shouldn't allow themselves to be faster than Link. Sonic is much shorter and skinnier than Falcon but he's faster too. Why? Because in his series, he's all about speed. But then even that as a reason to justify overall abilities of a character within their series into smash doesn't make sense either because Lucario and Pikachu have the same speed stats. Pichu is way slower than both in the games, but mewtwo is the fastest of all Pokemon characters in smash but he's the slowest. So why cant Pichu be faster than Pikachu?

3rd. Bizzaro and DJ Nintendo "just know what they're doing"??? Wow seriously? Thats your reason for Ganon and Bowser having more viability? Thats stupid as ****. No, clearly they just figured out how to actually use the character. For all we know, Zelda has some unknown things that will make her better, same with more melee characters. 1 player making a "bad" character good is like saying Pikachu in melee is garbage and the worst character used in tourneys, but Axe as a player is just so good that he beat M2K with a ****ty character because Axe knew what he was doing and M2K doesn't. 1 person doesn't make a character really good, its the player who learns how to use a character that makes the player good.

As for that Smash 4 thing you randomly threw at me, I never said anything about Smash 4 clones at all. I mentioned Lucina as an alt for Marth because that was just a neat idea that I decided to include for some opinions.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

People hate Pichu because he was bad in melee. How many people actually like Ganondorf as a character in general or Bowser? Who the hell likes G&W? I'm pretty sure people play unlikable characters because of their moves and playstyles. Pichu as a character is loved by many. As a playable smash bros character tho, nope, pure hate for something that PM could fix like they did with Link, Roy, Mewtwo and Zelda. Who are all terrible in melee.

 

[JohnTwo]

People hate Pichu because he was bad in melee. How many people actually like Ganondorf as a character in general or Bowser? Who the hell likes G&W? I'm pretty sure people play unlikable characters because of their moves and playstyles. Pichu as a character is loved by many. As a playable smash bros character tho, nope, pure hate for something that PM could fix like they did with Link, Roy, Mewtwo and Zelda. Who are all terrible in melee.

Exactly. The PMDT has the opportunity to fix Pichu. People will hate Pichu, but they will hate the Pichu IN MELEE.

He has a good idea. Don't contradict him without a strong argument.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Exactly. The PMDT has the opportunity to fix Pichu. People will hate Pichu, but they will hate the Pichu IN MELEE.

He has a good idea. Don't contradict him without a strong argument.

I respect that people like Pichu, but I think it's been pretty well established by conversations here and by the previous polls that people don't want him. My reasoning for it is that people aren't dismissing him based on the Melee moveset but rather based on the fact that there are waaaaaaaaaaaaay better characters to fill one of the five available slots. Why?

1) Pokemon's already way over-saturated as a series in Smash Bros (and I love Pokemon)
2) Pichu isn't a particularly remarkable Pokemon and doesn't bring much to the table in terms of new ideas (even if his moveset gets a shiny makeover)
3) The idea of making Pichu a good character is something that a lot of people oppose because there has never been a situation, canon or not, where he hasn't been a sucky fighter.

I'd say those are strong enough arguments individually, let alone together. I sincerely doubt it will ever happen unless more slots are created.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Yeahhh, Pichu taking up one of our few remaining slots is a really hard sell when they could go with a more unique and potentially popular pick.

Pichu Bros/Plusle & Minun on the other hand I would be okay with, though I don't really expect that to happen. It'd be interesting to see what the PMDT could do with an ICs-style character when not bound by certain limitations of their moveset.

 

[Athorment]

I think the main issue has always been "How much can be added" in this kind of things. Characters like Mewtwo and Roy are very straight forward because they were designed for a game that couldnt have as many effects as say.... someone more complex like Olimar, Lucario and Snake (In terms of gimmicks) or later on someone like Robin, Duck Hunt and Villager in Sm4sh.

And with the mod being called Project "M" for a reason, i think the wisest choice would be to design a character with Melee in mind. Someone like Lyn and Knuckles who are all physical save a few effects are my characters of choice followed by semi-clones (Sami taking after Snake or Toon Zelda for example)

 

[GunBuster]

Exactly. The PMDT has the opportunity to fix Pichu. People will hate Pichu, but they will hate the Pichu IN MELEE.

He has a good idea. Don't contradict him without a strong argument.

oh my god, trying to read your posts with the Smashboards Project M theme is murder on my eyes.


I still say adding another pokemon is just too much, we have 7 as it is. Sure, Project M is "Genwun and Knuckles Lucario - the Musical" but whatever - what I Like about it is that every pokemon used is representative of a different elemental type - adding another electric type that is essentially a smaller pikachu in place of a character, any character who can offer something new is wasted effort. you can make Pichu function completely uniquely, but the fact still stands that it's just a smaller pikachu and that's all people will see it as.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

oh my god, trying to read your posts with the Smashboards Project M theme is murder on my eyes.


I still say adding another pokemon is just too much, we have 7 as it is. Sure, Project M is "Genwun and Knuckles Lucario - the Musical" but whatever - what I Like about it is that every pokemon used is representative of a different elemental type - adding another electric type that is essentially a smaller pikachu in place of a character, any character who can offer something new is wasted effort. you can make Pichu function completely uniquely, but the fact still stands that it's just a smaller pikachu and that's all people will see it as.

Not sure if anyone noticed, but There are currently 2 Pokemon generations being repped out of 6. All of them are Kanto and 1 is Sinnoh. If diversity is wanted along with a likable and wanted characters, what about Gardevoir? Sure she's psychic like Mewtwo, but also reps Gen 3, a highly favorited generation that isn't Gen 1. She already has a character model in the game from the pokeballs. Cloning her using Zelda as a base is an idea too.

Gardevoir Moveset:

I imagine her movements being like Rosalina from smash 4. Elegantly floating around.

Normals

((WIP))

B moves

-Neutral B: Moonblast. It would basically be Samus's neutral b but with grayish color and looks more like a glowing solid mass instead of energy.

-Up B: Levitate. It will look like mewtwo's second jump and she is free to do any of her moves. During the rising portion of the move, she will keep momentum even during a normal aerial being used in the middle of the rise. B moves during the rise will stop the momentum.

-Side B: Teleportation burst. She basically does a faster Din's fire but with a shine like spark effect and it doesn't slow down the further it gets. She will then teleport to the spark upon releasing the button. The maximum distance is the same as a din's fire. As she appears she will do a psychic pulse around her with the same hit range as Zelda's Up appearance hit box. At higher percents past 90% this would be a potential kill move.
--Air and Ground differences

-Air version: Goes into free fall after teleport. Does not refresh until onstage. Air to ground has 28 frames of end lag. Air to Air landing lag has 32 frames

-Ground version: Ground to Air doesn't put Gardevoir in a free fall state and can use any move except Side B. Ground to Ground end lag is 20 frames.

Highly punishable while setting teleport location.
​

-Down B: Future sight/Reflect. She creates a smaller version of her Pokeball assist move which is that reflect barrier to reflect projectiles. It will also act as a counter, similar to the Marth's. You can hold the button down to keep the barrier up but it will only reflect projectiles once the counter frames end.

This is what I have so far. What do you guys think?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but There are currently 2 Pokemon generations being repped out of 6. All of them are Kanto and 1 is Sinnoh. If diversity is wanted along with a likable and wanted characters, what about Gardevoir? Sure she's psychic like Mewtwo, but also reps Gen 3, a highly favorited generation that isn't Gen 1. She already has a character model in the game from the pokeballs. Cloning her using Zelda as a base is an idea too.

Gardevoir Moveset:

I imagine her movements being like Rosalina from smash 4. Elegantly floating around.

Normals

((WIP))

B moves

-Neutral B: Moonblast. It would basically be Samus's neutral b but with grayish color and looks more like a glowing solid mass instead of energy.

-Up B: Levitate. It will look like mewtwo's second jump and she is free to do any of her moves. During the rising portion of the move, she will keep momentum even during a normal aerial being used in the middle of the rise. B moves during the rise will stop the momentum.

-Side B: Teleportation burst. She basically does a faster Din's fire but with a shine like spark effect and it doesn't slow down the further it gets. She will then teleport to the spark upon releasing the button. The maximum distance is the same as a din's fire. As she appears she will do a psychic pulse around her with the same hit range as Zelda's Up appearance hit box. At higher percents past 90% this would be a potential kill move.
--Air and Ground differences

-Air version: Goes into free fall after teleport. Does not refresh until onstage. Air to ground has 28 frames of end lag. Air to Air landing lag has 32 frames

-Ground version: Ground to Air doesn't put Gardevoir in a free fall state and can use any move except Side B. Ground to Ground end lag is 20 frames.

Highly punishable while setting teleport location.
​

-Down B: Future sight/Reflect. She creates a smaller version of her Pokeball assist move which is that reflect barrier to reflect projectiles. It will also act as a counter, similar to the Marth's. You can hold the button down to keep the barrier up but it will only reflect projectiles once the counter frames end.

This is what I have so far. What do you guys think?

It requires porting articles (either for projectile or Din's Fire). And that is impossible for now. Also, Gardevoir's model already present in Brawl has very low quality, so, it can't really be used.



About the whole Pichu thing - i think its better to not include it. In the end, its still inferiour Pikachu in appearance and it was designed as such in Pokemon games. Its supposed to be Pikachu, but worse. No moveset change will fix that without breaking anything.

 

[GunBuster]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but There are currently 2 Pokemon generations being repped out of 6. All of them are Kanto and 1 is Sinnoh.

Project M is "Genwun and Knuckles Lucario - the Musical"

Are

You

Serious

Also, Gardevoir's model already present in Brawl has very low quality, so, it can't really be used.

Yes, this. I think far too many people are blissfully unaware of how low quality anything that isn't a playable character or the Nintendog is in this game.

I think it's safe to presume a character that exists as an assist trophy or whatever else does not have an advantage for being chosen as a clone engine character over another who doesn't.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

...

I was quoting you because you pointed out the Gen 1 and Lucario thing. Also because I'm new to Smash Boards and you seemed like you have some higher authority in this thread. So I figured quoting you with that Gardevoir thing would be seen by someone with a good opinion. I apologize for anything I'm ignorant about regarding character models and such.

 

[RomeDogg]

I am all for Pichu and Young Link returning. I actually think they should return before we get any other characters especially since Project M is their last chance to be playable in any Smash title besides Melee. If the Knuckles, Lynn, and Isaac thing is true then its only fair Pichu and Young Link get the other two slots. Then PM would have every character from the first 3 generation Smash Titles plus more. Plus the roster will still be huge/Amazing with tons of diversity to offer. Pichu actually has a ton of potential to be a great character in PM. Also Young Link should return as a better Melee version maintaining his Melee uniqueness. Then I think they should experiment with/tweak Toon Links move-set to further differentiate him. Young Link is a piece of Smash/Nintendo History.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Do you truly believe that Pichu and Young Link (even if they were in the past games) give the roster the most diversity possible, let alone make the game the best in the series? They're clone characters, even if they're made better and are given altered movesets in some ways. Furthermore, they're both from well-represented series. I like them both too, but it really confuses me that people would ever want them enough to deny brand new characters...

 

[RomeDogg]

I loved Young Link in Melee that's why I want him. I want Pichu because I miss him. Other than getting the Smash Veteran family back together I could care less about who else is added or if any other characters or even added at all. Also clone characters aren't the devil. I liked both Link and Young Link because it gave me too different options of a character style I liked. The same with Marth and Roy or the Space Animals. It gives players of certain types of characters a further/altered selection. Pichu was cool because he was a smaller Pikachu with better movement options.

 

[PseudoTypical]

We all liked them, but there is SO much more potential. I don't think I'm alone in believing that you're thinking too small. Why make clones at all when you can do fully fleshed out, entirely new characters that can add new tech and series representation?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

And keep in mind that PMDT are limited with how many characters they can add (and what they can do with characters, but thats not relevant in this case). Adding clones would be a waste in such case because that spot could have been taken by completly new character. While "slots" don't exist in SSB4, they exist here. And we already have Young Link in form of Toon Link. Not exactly same, but very close. Besides, 3 Links is overkill.

 

[RomeDogg]

I know they are limited slots that's why me and others advocate having Young Link and Pichu in the roster. Because we don't want them to be cast aside. Some Pichu and Young Link mains steer back to Melee or other Smash mods because of this issue. Everyone else's Melee Mains are back but due to "popularity" "franchise representation" or "being clones" others can't play as their mains in PM? Doesn't seem fair. I am glad all your mains made they cut, also thanx for looking out for those who were less fortunate though.

At the end of the day you won't convince any Pichu/Young Link fans/players otherwise. So agree to disagree. Because at the same time we can't understand why others would want to forfeit Young Link and Pichus character slots for "new characters".

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

I honestly feel like PM shouldn't have new playable characters that weren't in other games. Since Pichu is the only melee veteran to not return, it only seems natural to bring him back. While he is just a smaller and canonically inferior Pikachu, how is Toon Link AKA Cartoon Young Link any different? If new characters are wanted, I honestly think PM should just add Smash 4 characters and give them PM viability. If new characters are preferred which they seem to be anyway I would actually want Raichu instead of Pichu, but thats assuming Pichu was an option to replace.

...

I dont think for Young Link shoud get a full character slot to himself but just be a skin for Toon Link.

 

[AceGamer]

Smash 4 characters aren't possible because the PMDT doesn't wanna look like it's competing with Smash 4(also possible legal issues) so they've limited themselves to only characters that have appeared in Brawl in some form. Trophies, Assist Trophies and stickers are all fair game for new characters

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

We all liked them, but there is SO much more potential. I don't think I'm alone in believing that you're thinking too small. Why make clones at all when you can do fully fleshed out, entirely new characters that can add new tech and series representation?

My question to you and everyone else is this. Would adding completely new characters that were never playable before heavily effect the meta? Also by adding new characters, couldn't that make PM a bigger target for nintendo to have issues with? For example. Adding a new series' playable character in smash bros requires consent of the series creator. Now I know PM doesn't make money for what it is, but lately everyone has to admit, Nintendo has been pulling some legal bull**** a lot lately and my biggest concern is no more PM. I dont know anything about law and how that stuff works, but I wouldn't be surprised if its possible for Nintendo to stop PM completely.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I honestly feel like PM shouldn't have new playable characters that weren't in other games. Since Pichu is the only melee veteran to not return, it only seems natural to bring him back. While he is just a smaller and canonically inferior Pikachu, how is Toon Link AKA Cartoon Young Link any different? If new characters are wanted, I honestly think PM should just add Smash 4 characters and give them PM viability. If new characters are preferred which they seem to be anyway I would actually want Raichu instead of Pichu, but thats assuming Pichu was an option to replace.

Technically, Pichu isn't the only one. Young Link and Dr.Mario aren't here either (but Dr.Mario was partially used for Mario's moveset and exists as alt model while Young Link was used as a base for Toon Link's moveset). And Toon Link is shown as he should be. He is smaller and weaker than Link.

My question to you and everyone else is this. Would adding completely new characters that were never playable before heavily effect the meta? Also by adding new characters, couldn't that make PM a bigger target for nintendo to have issues with? For example. Adding a new series' playable character in smash bros requires consent of the series creator. Now I know PM doesn't make money for what it is, but lately everyone has to admit, Nintendo has been pulling some legal bull**** a lot lately and my biggest concern is no more PM. I dont know anything about law and how that stuff works, but I wouldn't be surprised if its possible for Nintendo to stop PM completely.

Any new characters, even if brought back from Melee (including Pichu, who SHOULD be completly remade because he is completly unviable, so, might as well be new character), will heavily affect the meta. And they can freely add new characters as long as they are in Brawl in some way, from stickers to assist trophies and bosses. It doesn't breaks any laws. BUT, if they will go beyond that line, they will be f***ed.

Besides, isn't it more interesting to have completly new character rather than character that already was done before? This way, you don't know what exactly to expect in terms of anything while with veterans, you just don't know what will be changed in the moveset.

 

[PseudoTypical]

My question to you and everyone else is this. Would adding completely new characters that were never playable before heavily effect the meta? Also by adding new characters, couldn't that make PM a bigger target for nintendo to have issues with? For example. Adding a new series' playable character in smash bros requires consent of the series creator. Now I know PM doesn't make money for what it is, but lately everyone has to admit, Nintendo has been pulling some legal bull**** a lot lately and my biggest concern is no more PM. I dont know anything about law and how that stuff works, but I wouldn't be surprised if its possible for Nintendo to stop PM completely.

Sure, it would affect the meta, just as having forty-some viable characters has affected the meta.

C&Ds are always possible now that they're adding new content, but what's being done to mitigate that chance is that any potential new character must be present in some form in Brawl (making it very clearly legal as Bagan said). Why don't you want new characters, then?

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Bruh... Add Raichu. He's stronger, faster, and that tail range is all the more reason to just say screw Pichu vote Raichu. He is the most unappreciated Pikachu evolution that will be sure to draw attention. He's open to new electric moves not used by Pikachu. Volt Tackle as a side b, neutral b could be a charge move that starts as thunder shock>thunderbolt (a longer reaching variation of Pikachu's Fsmash)>Discharge (basically imagine that explosion around Pikachu during thunder but much bigger and remove the lightning coming down so its more of a blast just around Raichu. Replace thunder with a new move because we need something new right?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Bruh... Add Raichu. He's stronger, faster, and that tail range is all the more reason to just say screw Pichu vote Raichu. He is the most unappreciated Pikachu evolution that will be sure to draw attention. He's open to new electric moves not used by Pikachu. Volt Tackle as a side b, neutral b could be a charge move that starts as thunder shock>thunderbolt (a longer reaching variation of Pikachu's Fsmash)>Discharge (basically imagine that explosion around Pikachu during thunder but much bigger and remove the lightning coming down so its more of a blast just around Raichu. Replace thunder with a new move because we need something new right?

Actually, its not possible. Raichu is not present in Brawl in any form. Not even a sticker. So, he is out. Kinda surprised by that.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Sure, it would affect the meta, just as having forty-some viable characters has affected the meta.

C&Ds are always possible now that they're adding new content, but what's being done to mitigate that chance is that any potential new character must be present in some form in Brawl (making it very clearly legal as Bagan said). Why don't you want new characters, then?

I love the idea of new characters. I just dont see how Pichu is different from Toon Link. He's literally just Link but smaller. I saw someone say because Pichu is smaller he is and should be weaker. In smash bros that should even be an issue or relevant. Toon Link is smaller than Link and by default the same would apply to him right? Yet Toon Link is faster, can do aerial combos Link cant do and has really strong attacks. TLink's Dair kills most under 90% and lighter characters below 80%. Pichu is no different and can potentially be faster than Pikachu with different uses for his moves. Melee Pichu's thunder was a multi-hit juggling kind of move while Pika's isn't. Pichu Fsmash multi-hit and way stronger knock back, but horrible range. Make that a bigger move and you have a viable and reliable kill option for Pichu that isn't Pika's UpSmash.

Actually, its not possible. Raichu is not present in Brawl in any form. Not even a sticker. So, he is out. Kinda surprised by that.

Nvm, just make Pichu viable. lmao Or add everyone's Pokemon hentai fantasy/Waifu. Gardevoir

Another idea for Pichu to make him different. Reduce his traction so he slide more. Not like Luigi or Squirtle, but something close to Toon Link

 

[Game&Watcher]

If Young Link were to return, he'd best bring a moveset similar to Hyrule Warriors or heavily Luigified from his Melee appearance, otherwise, he'd just be a waste of a slot.

 

[Draco_The]

Dude, Pichu alone just won't work. Pikachu is already a pretty fast character. If anyone wants to make a clone of Pikachu, it should be with the opposite attributes, which would mean a slower yet more powerful character, and that would suit Raichu WAY better than Pichu, let alone the fact that what you are requesting (pretty small character that's fast and slippery) already exists in the game in the form of Squirtle.

Pichu would be a major waste of a slot. On the cosmetics side we already have Pikachu, on the gameplay side we already have Squirtle and also Pikachu again and on the franchise representation we already have 7 different Pokémon characters.

Making a Pichu Bros./Plusle & Minun (I'd honestly go for Plusle & Minun to avoid yet another yellow rat and for better visibility during matches) would be a far better idea than just Pikachu Junior, but then there's the problem that this duo character would take two slots instead of one.

 

[GunBuster]

I was quoting you because you pointed out the Gen 1 and Lucario thing. Also because I'm new to Smash Boards and you seemed like you have some higher authority in this thread. So I figured quoting you with that Gardevoir thing would be seen by someone with a good opinion. I apologize for anything I'm ignorant about regarding character models and such.

Well, alright then I apologise for coming across as scathingly as I did. Your post doesn't really read like that to me, is all.
And really, I'm not an authority in this thread at all, I've just been here a while. It's been a fun(ny) ride.
Bagan pretty much covered the weaknesses in your Gardevoir idea, so I'll only add that you'll find that nobody else would want that. I don't want to play as Gardevoir in smash, thats for sure. Besides, It's in Pokken anyway.

but I will at least say that I do seem to be one of the few people who actually remember what the PMDT are limited to in regards to the new characters....

We all liked them, but there is SO much more potential. I don't think I'm alone in believing that you're thinking too small. Why make clones at all when you can do fully fleshed out, entirely new characters that can add new tech and series representation?

... Because characters Like Falco and Roy who take an existing moveset and completely change what it's about can be made in a fraction of the time it would take to make a new one completely from scratch? Hell, I want Sami to potentially be a clone of Snake. Knuckles being a clone of Sonic makes sense.

Not to say completely new characters aren't Ideal or anything, but hell, let them cut corners where they can get away with it.

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

Are the new characters limited to brawl or can we pick characters from other smash games' trophies?

 

[SuperUltraHyperOrochiPika]

This is a bit of a long shot but does the Pokemon have to be visually on screen or can it be in the description of a trophy?

 

[Byrd0]

i saw some good ideas but why wasnt birdo talked about

yoshis the the only series witout another character in any game and birdo would fix that. she coud fire eggs and be a yoshi clone except faster and a little weaker and stuf, yoshi needs a friend. what do you think