New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Marthmario]

BrawlEX, but P:M doesn't support it.

Yea, I remember hearing about that. Only problem with BrawlEX is that you can't input new sound-files

 

[ObdurateMARio]

+1 Pichu
+1 Lyn
+1 Hector
+1 Isaac
+1 Ganon/Black Shadow

Unless we can get Ephraim up in here. Then +5 Ephraim.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Yea, I remember hearing about that. Only problem with BrawlEX is that you can't input new sound-files

That's actually a really interesting story because someone was able to give me a modded pm with about 7 extra slots, maybe more. But yeah the only problem like you said, I couldn't in put in the desired voices so they had to sound like whoever character they used

 

[JayJay55]

Autodesk student account = 3 free years of 3DS Max.

I've tried that, it wouldn't let me download it, the only thing I could work with is the 30 day trial. Although, I don't know if Bagan has tried to download the Autodesk Student Account version or the 30 day trial version. The case could be he just doesn't want to take the time to re-rig the Brawl Ridley model since rigging takes a lot of time and patience. This is probably the reason why I half-assed rigging the model when he gave it to me, I read the instructions and rushed through the work just for the sake of getting it done. Unless someone else takes the time to rig it all we'll have to do is settle for Other M Ridley instead of Super Metroid (Brawl) Ridley because I can't rig for ****.

This is how it turned out: http://s017.radikal.ru/i401/1411/08/6c61bfd79221.png

 

[Anti Guy]

Just wanted to say two things:

1. It looks like Wolf Link + Midna is on the list. Okay. Normally I don't intervene on how possible a character is technically, as this is a popularity contest... BUT... the scale of that project is either impossible or borderline impossible because of the skeleton and animations. No other character is like that.

2. Now that the tally is up, I think it's time for the poll to be closed.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Just wanted to say two things:

1. It looks like Wolf Link + Midna is on the list. Okay. Normally I don't intervene on how possible a character is technically, as this is a popularity contest... BUT... the scale of that project is either impossible or borderline impossible because of the skeleton and animations. No other character is like that.

2. Now that the tally is up, I think it's time for the poll to be closed.

I feel as if though if I never mentioned Midna and Wolf Link not being on the list, you wouldn't have said that.
Btw what does a back roomer like you actually do? Just curious

 

[bksbestbwoy]

Takamaru made it to the top of B/almost into A? I'm so proud of you guys. :')

 

[SmilingMad]

Oops, sorry Embarrass


@ BaganSmashBros
The thought behind a hurtbox on his tail is that otherwise attacks with it would be too safe with too much range. Just think of 3.02 Mewtwo.
Of course, that could not be the case depending on how the moves are designed. If they don’t actually cover a huge area or if they had wet-noodle-sourspots then an invincible tail might work.


Actually, I think I’ll update my Ridley post with some new thoughts, now.

I greatly dislike the Other M design, for a few reasons:

• It’s not the iconic appearance fans know Ridley for.
• It’s a reminder of a game that should be forgotten.
• It’s not Ridley; it’s just some clone.
• It doesn’t fit with the rest of the artstyle; it’s too pointy, too glossy, and clashes with SM Samus.
• It’s ugly.

A (poor) argument against playable Ridley would be the question of what happens to the boss. Nothing has to happen, this is Smash, we can have 8 Mario’s at the same time now. If the size difference is a complaint, he could just be renamed “Giant Ridley.” Or, he could be replaced with the Ridley clone, or Omega Ridley, or Ridley X, or Zero Mission’s Ridley robot, or even something like DK64’s Dogadon.

Also, the manner in which Ridley appears in Super Metroid (first his eyes, then the rest) would make a great entrance.


Now, imagine this:

Ridley has the highest aerial top speed and acceleration in the game, with two or three very-high aerial jumps, a very-high terminal velocity, but a regular-high gravity (whatever’s necessary to give him a bit of hang time but still be super comboable). Overall, this would provide him with absolutely amazing mobility in the air, but with a catch…

It’s not just that he’s not-so-great on the ground, with a power-level more in line with Melee Link than Brawl Link. The real killers are the transitions. I’m talking 8+ frame jump-squat and neutral-landing, 17+ for L-cancelled aerials, and RIP if he lands from Up-B.

Of course, with all this, Ridley would have to make the most out of ledges and, despite much preferring the air, might decide to spend some time grounded if only to avoid the danger of jumping. But the real fun comes in with the Pogo Tail.

The way I imagine it is if Pogo Tail were Dair, although one might argue it’d be better as a special move. Once the input it made, there’s a relatively long startup as Ridley spins his tail, then he stabs it downward, then keeps it extended for a while, then finally retracts during cooldown. There’s a strong hitbox on the tip once it fully stabs and while it’s extended, with a weak one on the rest of the tail. The idea here would be that Ridley couldn’t just drift into someone to get the strong hit: he’d either need to space out the stab’s tip a la Marth’s spike, or take the dangerous/difficult route of trying to fall directly on the enemy while it’s extended.

His landing point would be tied to the tail during much of the move, and if he lands while his tail is extended it springs him back into the air with just enough lag/height to do it again. This action would restore his jumps, but would leave him immobile on the ground for fewer frames than landing then jumping, with the added benefit of slight protection via a weak hitbox on the tip of his tail, which could even combo (with poor SDI) into a rising hit that is very strong on the tail-tip and weak on the rest of his body.

However, it would be a situational technique. He’d have to have enough time before landing for the twirl to execute (which would also telegraph his intentions), he’d have to be high enough that the initial stab (which stretches a bit farther than he subsequently keeps it) doesn’t cause him to land, and he’d have to make sure to land before the cooldown starts (which still keeps his tail, hence landing point, fairly low for a while). If he does accidentally land at the wrong point he not only doesn’t get the Pogo, but he’s put into his long-lasting Dair landlag, which he probably didn’t expect hence didn’t L-cancel. Moreover, it would carry the risk that, if the Pogo is interrupted for any reason, then he loses all his jumps regardless of what he had before (as well as possibly stuff like ledge invincibility, glide, undecayed AGT, etc.).

Sounds kinda cool, eh?

What about a Z-air with his tail, a tether attack that doesn't grab onto ledges and can be angled but only downward?

 

[ChiePet]

Whaaaat, I never even thought about Midna as a possibility, much less with Wolf Link as well. How'd that work, really?
+1 Midna
+1 Ashley (warioware) obligatory.

 

[Anti Guy]

I feel as if though if I never mentioned Midna and Wolf Link not being on the list, you wouldn't have said that.
Btw what does a back roomer like you actually do? Just curious

I've said that a few times before in this thread, actually.

A back roomer like me does absolutely nothing.

 

[Cubelarooso]

A back roomer like me does absolutely nothing.

One could say they're… couch tomatoes.

 

[arcticfox8]

Whaaaat, I never even thought about Midna as a possibility, much less with Wolf Link as well. How'd that work, really?
+1 Midna
+1 Ashley (warioware) obligatory.

Votings over tho

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Just wanted to say two things:

1. It looks like Wolf Link + Midna is on the list. Okay. Normally I don't intervene on how possible a character is technically, as this is a popularity contest... BUT... the scale of that project is either impossible or borderline impossible because of the skeleton and animations. No other character is like that.

2. Now that the tally is up, I think it's time for the poll to be closed.

Your saying this trophy has too many bones for them to work it out?

Honestly though, I wouldn't mind if its just Midna by herself. I think she would be unique enough on her own, actually.

 

[arcticfox8]

They don't use trophy models tho

 

[ZeldaFan01]

They don't use trophy models tho

But..they'd have too.. Especially for characters like Isaac cause he doesn't have 3D models anywhere else. But at least for Midna they can use her trophy models or her more real model from TP.

 

[arcticfox8]

But..they'd have too.. Especially for characters like Isaac cause they don't have 3D models anywhere else. But at least for Midna they can use her tropgmhy models or her more real model from TP.

Where do you think they got Roy's model?
They make them brah

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Where do you think they got Roy's model?
They make them brah

Oh... Oh My God I can't believe I just realized that, thanks bro! So all they have to do is base the models they're making from whatever 3D model either from SSBM or SSBB, right? Then why do the "skeleton and animations" from Midna and Wolf Link matter, explain that

 

[arcticfox8]

Oh... Oh My God I can't believe I just realized that, thanks bro! So all they have to do is base the models they're making from whatever 3D model either from SSBM or SSBB, right? Then why do the "skeleton and animations" from Midna and Wolf Link matter, explain that

I'm sure one of our brawl modding wizards could explain it more accurately than I

 

[JCOnyx]

Votings over tho

Well, I said I'd keep counting, but everyone else seems determined to stop the poll here. If Anti-Guy would prefer the poll closed I'm not going to hassle him into updating the OP if he doesn't want to.

... Perhaps now would be the right time to close it after all. We can always wait until the next chatacter/s are announced and a poll reset can be discussed.

 

[Anti Guy]

Oh... Oh My God I can't believe I just realized that, thanks bro! So all they have to do is base the models they're making from whatever 3D model either from SSBM or SSBB, right? Then why do the "skeleton and animations" from Midna and Wolf Link matter, explain that

Any new characters are based on old characters. Mewtwo was based on Lucario since they have a similar skeleton. Roy was based on Marth for similar reasons.

Dixie Kong is considered extremely difficult because even though she'd be based off Diddy, she has a prehensile tail, which Diddy does not. You'd have to create new bones and animations for that for pretty much everything... and I'm not sure how feasible that is.

Midna and Wolf Link is a little imp riding on a creature. There is nothing similar in Brawl, making it virtually impossible. Wolf Link by himself would be somewhat possible? Maybe off Ivysaur or something. But really, that doesn't deserve a character slot.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Any new characters are based on old characters. Mewtwo was based on Lucario since they have a similar skeleton. Roy was based on Marth for similar reasons.

Dixie Kong is considered extremely difficult because even though she'd be based off Diddy, she has a prehensile tail, which Diddy does not. You'd have to create new bones and animations for that for pretty much everything... and I'm not sure how feasible that is.

Midna and Wolf Link is a little imp riding on a creature. There is nothing similar in Brawl, making it virtually impossible. Wolf Link by himself would be somewhat possible? Maybe off Ivysaur or something. But really, that doesn't deserve a character slot.

But he has some edits done to skeleton (tail for example). They are minor however.

Hair, not tail. Even then, they could be animated by physics unless certain animation needs them to move in a different way. I don't think its possible to make more bones move with physics, but hey, PMBR gave Mewtwo and Ganondorf reflectors.

That doesn't means a new skeleton can't be made just for them. They will have to make completly new animations anyway, so, why bother limiting yourself by giving model someone else's skeleton?

I don't support any of those and won't since i spent all of my +1...i think...Even if i didn't, i have nothing else to vote for.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Any new characters are based on old characters. Mewtwo was based on Lucario since they have a similar skeleton. Roy was based on Marth for similar reasons.

Dixie Kong is considered extremely difficult because even though she'd be based off Diddy, she has a prehensile tail, which Diddy does not. You'd have to create new bones and animations for that for pretty much everything... and I'm not sure how feasible that is.

Midna and Wolf Link is a little imp riding on a creature. There is nothing similar in Brawl, making it virtually impossible. Wolf Link by himself would be somewhat possible? Maybe off Ivysaur or something. But really, that doesn't deserve a character slot.

Oh that's really too bad i wanted to be them really bad, and i wouldve never have suggested. Now that they're virtually impossible. I don't expect the PMBR to pull them off now. But thanks for clearing that up about that there are no characters in Brawl that are as nearly as complex as them

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Any new characters are based on old characters. Mewtwo was based on Lucario since they have a similar skeleton. Roy was based on Marth for similar reasons.

Dixie Kong is considered extremely difficult because even though she'd be based off Diddy, she has a prehensile tail, which Diddy does not. You'd have to create new bones and animations for that for pretty much everything... and I'm not sure how feasible that is.

Midna and Wolf Link is a little imp riding on a creature. There is nothing similar in Brawl, making it virtually impossible. Wolf Link by himself would be somewhat possible? Maybe off Ivysaur or something. But really, that doesn't deserve a character slot.

Hmmmm... interesting to know. I'm not changing my votes because I want to respect you guys' time-- you put tons of work into maintaining the tallies, votes, and so much more.

I think my top 5 most wanted characters are a bit different after reading this. Ridley and Isaac are givens. As awesome as Goroh would be, it's hard to argue that Lyn wouldn't be a better choice. Should Dixie prove to be unfeasible, Knuckles would be pretty rad in spite of the 3rd party stigma. And you already know who else I voted for, so I'm not going there for now...

I can't help but want to root for Paper Mario, Ray 01, and Masked Man as well. All of them have loads of potential. If the PMBR ever finds a way to bypass the 5-character limit....

 

[Anti Guy]

Hair, not tail.

Oops, meant to say ponytail.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

@ Anti Guy
Now that the voting is closed,it might be a good time to throw this idea out there...

Would you want to go through the trouble of editing the OP to inlcude links to the posts with major moveset ideas for each character?

Like how you have done with some of them,but for all the major moveset posts?

I'd be 100% willing to collect the data myself.
What do you think?

 

[Shin F.]

@ Anti Guy @ Shin F. @Friesnchip @ JCOnyx
Now that the voting is closed,it might be a good time to throw this idea out there...

Would you guys want to go through the trouble of editing the OP to inlcude links to the posts with major moveset ideas for each character?

Like how you have done with some of them,but for all the major moveset posts?

I'd be 100% willing to collect the data myself.
What do you guys think?

Anti Guy's the only one who can actually edit the OP, so it would be up to him.

Yea, I remember hearing about that. Only problem with BrawlEX is that you can't input new sound-files

Neither can the PM Clone Engine. Both of them allow for the replacing of other soundbanks, however. Roy and Mewtwo use boss sounds, and BrawlEx allows you to use boss sounds as well if you choose to. Regular enemy soundbanks like Primid's, as well.

 

[Marthmario]

Anti Guy's the only one who can actually edit the OP, so it would be up to him.

Neither can the PM Clone Engine. Both of them allow for the replacing of other soundbanks, however. Roy and Mewtwo use boss sounds, and BrawlEx allows you to use boss sounds as well if you choose to. Regular enemy soundbanks like Primid's, as well.

Oh! Yea, I forgot about that thing. I've fought Duon and Golleom much to my amusement. I just was under the impression that you couldn't use the boss soundbanks in BrawlEX.

 

[Anti Guy]

@ Anti Guy
Now that the voting is closed,it might be a good time to throw this idea out there...

Would you want to go through the trouble of editing the OP to inlcude links to the posts with major moveset ideas for each character?

Like how you have done with some of them,but for all the major moveset posts?

I'd be 100% willing to collect the data myself.
What do you think?

If you want to... I'll tell you right now that it won't be worth effort at all.

 

[Dr.Narwhal]

I'd like to suggest we add Duster from Mother 3 to the list. He has a wide variety of moves available to be his specials thanks to his Thief tools. The mother 3 series needs another rep and he plays very different compared to the rest of the cast. Also I second the inclusion of Ephraim!

 

[Sour Supreme]

I'd like to suggest we add Duster from Mother 3 to the list. He has a wide variety of moves available to be his specials thanks to his Thief tools. The mother 3 series needs another rep and he plays very different compared to the rest of the cast. Also I second the inclusion of Ephraim!

Ninten > Any Other Mother Reps

 

[Hagrid]

Ninten > Any Other Mother Reps

 

[JayTheUnseen]

If you want to... I'll tell you right now that it won't be worth effort at all.

I'll do it anyway,or try.I'll take it slow.
It'll be cool to read through the thread,see how things changed...first,I have a noob question.
How do you make links to a certain part of a page?

Nevermind,I figured it out.

 

[TRJV]

Ninten > Any Other Mother Reps

Claus?

 

[Sour Supreme]

Claus?

Claus is my favorite Mother character, after Lucas.

But, Ninten is the most deserving. Anyone whose played the whole series can realize that.

 

[Szion]

I'm seeing talk of midna...I'd be so down for that. Maybe even incorporate transform between the little one and the humanoid midna. (twili form or something). could be kinda like zeldashiek. or maybe just one of the two midna forms on it's own. take notes from hyrule warriors with the wolf summoning. easily a side B move right there. +1 to midna yo.

 

[arcticfox8]

The most deserving Mother rep is Rope Snake

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

The most deserving Mother rep is Rope Snake

He'd be easy to make. Obvious clone of Snake.

 

[DokemonStudios]

Now does the clone engine clone a whole character, or a single move from a moveset?

 

[kyleglor]

Now does the clone engine clone a whole character, or a single move from a moveset?

they start with a character as a base then modify it so it starts with everything then they change the model and the properties of the attacks etc.

Also this thread shouldn't die just because the poll is over

 

[Hagrid]

Now does the clone engine clone a whole character, or a single move from a moveset?

I'm not sure if it's what you mean, but I don't think you can make a 'clone character' consisting of a selection of moves from different characters. So you couldn't make character X that has Fox's side special, Lucario's nuetral special and Bowser's down special as they are all unique animations suited specifically to their source character. Creating character X would therefore require serious animation work which would take basically the same amount of time as it would to make the character from scratch. (It's a good point to raise, even if it's not what you mean as I see this false assumption come up alot in people's character suggestions).

That being said, I'm not a PM developer and would be happy to be proven wrong on this.