I really liked your suggestion it would be really fun to play as... Read my suggestion on the previous page plz
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I really liked your suggestion it would be really fun to play as... Read my suggestion on the previous page plz
Yet you don't. lolDude I've read a lot of comments on the leak and everyone just says they are fine with the leaked characters. 3.02 Ganon players hated the idea of a Ganon with float but the dev team made it work and nobody complained. If you care more about the moveset and actually take a second to imagine the character in action then suddenly a whole bunch of characters suddenly become clone engine viable in your mind such as most of the retro characters, Issac, and more rather than being limited to your objectively unimportant tastes. You have that condescending tone again btw
I didn't said they were clones, semi-clones (well, Roy is). I just said they didn't had unique movesets. By "unique", i mean something like Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Lucario, etc. I called Pokemon and Melee Pichu inferiour, not PM Pichu if he will ever exist.I think alloys are interesting, and you can't argue against that. Same as I can't argue against your opinions so at least try to be objective. Roy and Mewtwo are so much different than Lucario and Marth. Don't talk about things you don't understand. Seriously WTF are you saying! Its like you are purposely ignoring the fact that these characters are so much different from their base. This is freakin Project M. Pichu will be balanced. Inferior my ***!
But Ganon's reflector is not nearly useless. Then Ganon is the most unique "clone" of all. DK and Falcon are more clones than Falcon and Ganon. I've mained both characters so just trust me on this one.
Also because they are veterans with very unique movesets while still being relatively easy to do. Pichu is contreversial but not as unwanted as you make him out to be.
But my Pichu will have much better movement and recovery than Pikachu so he's not exactly inferior. Then based on Ridley's boss battle, he will be too slow and vulnerable with attacks that are easily dodgeable.
I am literally one of the few people who has good ideas for Pichu. Read my suggestion on the previous page plz
Semi-clones (characters like Ganondorf, Luigi, Lucas, Wolf, etc):A clone is a character with a moveset and physics that are considerably similar to another character's. Often, the clone's moveset will have a few tweaks made, and may have their physics altered to a degree, but on the whole the characters are similar and typically have the same special move mechanics, to such a degree that both characters can be played successfully using a very similar or even identical play style.
There is also what is known as Luigification:Semi-clone is a term used as a sort of midway point being "clone" and "non-clone". Semi-clones share some of their moveset with another character, and may have some similarity in physics, but have enough unique about them that calling them a "clone" wouldn't be entirely accurate. Different players have different opinions of how unique a character has to be to move from "clone" to "semi-clone" status; some players tend to exaggerate the importance of special moves for character comparison, for example.
Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi are examples of that.The process of decloning a character between iterations of a franchise is often known in the Smash community as Luigification, named after Luigi's origin as a palette swap of Mario to becoming his own unique character in the Mario series, and the fact that Luigi started as a full clone of Mario in the original Smash Bros., but has been decloned in each additional installment.
To be fair, there seems to be a lot more love for Pichu on Reddit--I didn't said they were clones, semi-clones (well, Roy is). I just said they didn't had unique movesets. By "unique", i mean something like Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Lucario, etc. I called Pokemon and Melee Pichu inferiour, not PM Pichu if he will ever exist.
Do you even know what "clone" means? Let me quote the wiki:
Semi-clones (characters like Ganondorf, Luigi, Lucas, Wolf, etc):
There is also what is known as Luigification:
Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi are examples of that.
They are fan favourites and Roy was a clone. Mewtwo isn't that easy to do and took a lot of time. They said this is not a "Melee 2.0" mod and isn't going to be such, so, it doesn't means they would bring entire Melee cast back because it was in Melee.
While this poll isn't absolutely everyone's opinion, Pichu is very low in the pool (in the same category as Slippy and Primid) and wasn't really missed when he was removed from Brawl.
They must also have blue hair.I am against Pichu's inclusion because he doesn't have a sword.
This game does not have enough sword characters
All five clone engine characters must have swords
Everyone must have swords
EVERYONE
Same difference. Unique means different so I'll think of it like that. Those versions of Pichu don't matter hypocrite.I didn't said they were clones, semi-clones (well, Roy is). I just said they didn't had unique movesets. By "unique", i mean something like Ice Climbers, Ivysaur, Lucario, etc. I called Pokemon and Melee Pichu inferiour, not PM Pichu if he will ever exist.
Do you even know what "clone" means? Let me quote the wiki:
Semi-clones (characters like Ganondorf, Luigi, Lucas, Wolf, etc):
There is also what is known as Luigification:
Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi are examples of that.
They are fan favourites and Roy was a clone. Mewtwo isn't that easy to do and took a lot of time. They said this is not a "Melee 2.0" mod and isn't going to be such, so, it doesn't means they would bring entire Melee cast back because it was in Melee.
While this poll isn't absolutely everyone's opinion, Pichu is very low in the pool (in the same category as Slippy and Primid) and wasn't really missed when he was removed from Brawl.
First of all, insulting won't help.Same difference. Unique means different so I'll think of it like that. Those versions of Pichu don't matter hypocrite.
Yes I do, and by that definition, Fox and Falco are clones monsieur hypocrite.
By your definition, semi clones are very unique hypocritical person.
So by your definition, Ganon, Luigi, and Falco are not clones hippo combined with crit.
But Roy is NOT a clone! Let me enlighten you.
Roy
- fast fall speed makes his SHFFL excellent but makes him vulnerable to combos and chain grabs
- lots of kill moves with explosive power
- quick low knockback rack up a lot of percent
- approaching with aerials against a grounded opponent is not a good idea
- decent wavedash
- relatively poor edgeguarding
Marth
- not very good or fast SHFFL and medium fall speed
- inconsistent kills and doesn't capitalize off stray hits
- good knockback if tipped and leads to combos that require you to move a lot
- approaching with aerials is a great option
- awesome wavedash
- godlike edgeguarding
I know this isn't Melee 2.0 and I've said many times I only care about the moveset. Things have changed.
We can only dreamA little bit off-subject, but this thread makes me sad that no Castlevania character ever appeared in Brawl, especially since we already have the stage.
If Simon or Richter Belmont had been in, they could have been delivering beatdowns like
*facepalm* I'm done with this argument. I win lol. You contradict yourself too many times. Pichu has a very unique gimmick that I have explained and he can be luigified. Opinions have less value than movesets. No hard feelings from me, so hopefully no hard feelings from you.First of all, insulting won't help.
Unique among the entire roster. They just have attacks. No unique mechanic, no completly different stuff, etc.
Yes, Falco is Fox semi-clone (clone in Melee and Project M). Fox is not a clone or semi-clone because he was the first one like that. Mario isn't either.
How? It isn't MY definition, it is official one.
No. Can you read? Luigification - process of clone becoming different from original after each game. Like how Luigi once was a clone and now is a semi-clone.
Roy has similar attacks and few attribute changes. That is what makes him a semi-clone and he is considered to be such. It is better than in Melee, where he was just a clone. What makes a character clone is not how he plays. Its attributes and attacks.
I may be only 14 years old, but i do not end arguments in such childish way. Speaks a lot about you. I did not contradicted myself anywhere and if i did, someone else point that out. I rarely said anything about Pichu's potential moveset, only about his Melee moveset and character itself. I also didn't used any insults, even something like "idiot", either. You started calling me a hypocrite when i started quoting the wiki that has accurate information on such things. It wasn't something i made up and not even my opinion.*facepalm* I'm done with this argument. I win lol. You contradict yourself too many times. Pichu has a very unique gimmick that I have explained and he can be luigified. Opinions have less value than movesets. No hard feelings from me, so hopefully no hard feelings from you.
Well, let's be real about the spoiler thing. If you're a big Smash fan and you haven't randomly come across his identity at some point, you're probably not going to be able to figure it out from playing as him. And of course, Sheik is the perfect example showing Smash doesn't care about spoiling you.The masked man is a character I'm torn on. On one hand, he'd be a super interesting character to play with. On the other hand, he's a walking spoiler for Mother 3.... Still I'm not opposed to him joining the fray, even though he's not one of my top choices. I'm sure the PMBR would do a great job regardless-- I don't want to fall into the trap of putting all kinds of arbritary, artificial limitations on a character just because of my own personal subjective opinions.
That one Xenoblade trophy is prove that Smash doesn't give jack about spoilers.Well, let's be real about the spoiler thing. If you're a big Smash fan and you haven't randomly come across his identity at some point, you're probably not going to be able to figure it out from playing as him. And of course, Sheik is the perfect example showing Smash doesn't care about spoiling you.
They could always ignore the silly way the anime (and SSB) has handled Pokemon voices, and go for more animalistic sounds like in the games and Pokemon Origins. I'd love if all the Pokemon got new voices like that.Nah, Pichu Bros works better from a practical standpoint. Clone characters need to use Boss soundbanks, which are very limited in size, so having the voices for two different characters in one soundbank would be tough to pull off. Further, Pichu already has sounds from Melee they can use, whereas Plusle and Minun don't. And finally, It would be better for Pichu fans to actually have the character they really want than another, similar character that works on the same concept. If you're going to try to please his fans, go all the way with it.
I'd say make a costume for them referencing Plusle and Minun.
Thats exactly why i am against this idea. Not because of the moveset or anything. This is basically same reason i was against Dark Pit or Dr.Mario.I'd say the only thing that really makes Pichu unappealing is that it is inherently a weaker Pikachu, not just in Smash, but in general. Roy, Falco, and Ganondorf are all their own individual characters with their own individual personalities, regardless of whether their Smash selves show this well or not.
A Pichu on the other hand is always just going to be part of the Pikachu evolution line and unless one primarily plays little cup, or just ignores it completely, it will always become a Pikachu at some point. Differentiating too much from Pikachu doesn't make sense for the character.
Dark Pit at least had his own fighting style in KI:U. It's a shame that they lazily milked the clone aspect instead in Smash4.Thats exactly why i am against this idea. Not because of the moveset or anything. This is basically same reason i was against Dark Pit or Dr.Mario.
And that made both sides mad (except for those who just wanted Dark Pit because Dark Pit), right? Yeah, he failed in enough cases. Either way, it doesn't matters since Sakurai has nothing to do with Project M other than the fact he was directing original game used for this mod.Dark Pit at least had his own fighting style in KI:U. It's a shame that they lazily milked the clone aspect instead in Smash4.
I never thought of it that way. That's actually a really good point! I remember quite a bit of discussion on him earlier. He seems like his playstyle would be a blend between Metaknight and Lucas' fighting styles.Well, let's be real about the spoiler thing. If you're a big Smash fan and you haven't randomly come across his identity at some point, you're probably not going to be able to figure it out from playing as him. And of course, Sheik is the perfect example showing Smash doesn't care about spoiling you.
I think one of the best comparisons that comes to mind is Toon Link. Canonically, he's basically a younger version of Link who uses all the same weapons. Yet and still, he works. Oddly enough, I should dislike him, but I actually prefer him over the Adult Link in some ways-- he reminds me of the simpler days of the series, growing up on A Link to the Past where Link was this short, unassuming little dude (not to say that the games now aren't great too)....
And if being a weaker clone in a previous game makes a character unacceptable to be in Project M, then the PMDT might as well remove Roy because he was weak in Melee compared to Marth. They could also remove Falco because he's comparatively worse then Fox. Or Ganondorf while their at it. This is the path that logic follows.
Toon Link, Brawl Link and Melee Links are separate characters. Ganondorf is the only playable LoZ character that always is the same guy. So, technically, he is the only veteran out of them all if you won't count Brawl Toon Link>SSB4 Toon Link and N64 Link>Melee Link. And he uses different weapons actually. In nearly every game, Link is a completly different person except for games like Majora's Mask, where it is just few years after one of the previous games. Get your LoZ knowledge fixed.I think one of the best comparisons that comes to mind is Toon Link. Canonically, he's basically a younger version of Link who uses all the same weapons. Yet and still, he works. Oddly enough, I should dislike him, but I actually prefer him over the Adult Link in some ways-- he reminds me of the simpler days of the series, growing up on A Link to the Past where Link was this short, unassuming little dude (not to say that the games now aren't great too).
Why didn't you vote for Super Mario RPG's Exor then?I am against Pichu's inclusion because he doesn't have a sword.
This game does not have enough sword characters
All five clone engine characters must have swords
Everyone must have swords
EVERYONE
Thats his name, huh? Anyway, he isn't in the game. But he was supposed to be here, so, it counts...Exor for Project M! He will be able to do this and that even though it is impossible with modding limitations!Why didn't you vote for Super Mario RPG's Exor then?
Both characters use most of the same moves and weapons in smash and in their source games. I could have made the rest of my point more eloquently, however.Toon Link, Brawl Link and Melee Links are separate characters. Ganondorf is the only playable LoZ character that always is the same guy. So, technically, he is the only veteran out of them all if you won't count Brawl Toon Link>SSB4 Toon Link and N64 Link>Melee Link. And he uses different weapons actually. In nearly every game, Link is a completly different person except for games like Majora's Mask, where it is just few years after one of the previous games. Get your LoZ knowledge fixed.
Also, Toon Link looks a lot more different from Link than Pichu looks different from Pikachu.
Yeah, i misunderstood you. You should have said that he is a semi-clone - it is easier to understand in case of Links and that whole reincarnation thing.Both characters use most of the same moves and weapons in smash and in their source games. I could have made the rest of my point more eloquently, however.
I forgot that that the hero of winds was a separate character from the other links for a moment-- iirc ocarina split into 3 timelines (child link, adult link victorious, and adult link defeated, which is where the original game and a link to the past take place)
What can I say, the discussion is interesting for me.>sees pichu discussion coming back slowly
> contemplates about staying away for 40 days.
Swords, swords, everywhere.I am against Pichu's inclusion because he doesn't have a sword.
This game does not have enough sword characters
All five clone engine characters must have swords
Everyone must have swords
EVERYONE
That sounds repulsive.They could always ignore the silly way the anime (and SSB) has handled Pokemon voices, and go for more animalistic sounds like in the games and Pokemon Origins. I'd love if all the Pokemon got new voices like that.
I'd be really happy if that happened. I miss YL more and more, haha.Honestly though, I believe Young Link and Pichu are more likely to get in, because they are veterans, and would need very little effort to make. However, I am full supporter of Issac. No idea what his character is about, but he looks interesting.
Hypocrite isn't so much an insult than it is a term used to describe a person who contradicts himself. You showed definitions that contradicted what you were saying. Can you read because I can? Then you said they weren't your definitions so in a way, saying the definitions weren't legit. Then you said they were the most accurate definitions. You kept abandoning ship and changing your statements so that they favor you. Said Roy is clone. Oh no, I meant semi clone! The definition of clones don't even matter because semi clones are actually very unique in my eyes. IDK if you knew, but being a clone is actually a good thing. By then we were argueing a totally different thing and as I went over our arguement, realized I had you beat. I didn't want to argue anymore and now we are here.I may be only 14 years old, but i do not end arguments in such childish way. Speaks a lot about you. I did not contradicted myself anywhere and if i did, someone else point that out. I rarely said anything about Pichu's potential moveset, only about his Melee moveset and character itself. I also didn't used any insults, even something like "idiot", either. You started calling me a hypocrite when i started quoting the wiki that has accurate information on such things. It wasn't something i made up and not even my opinion.
Well, in my (not native) language, Russian, it is, so, i take it as an insult.Hypocrite isn't so much an insult than it is a term used to describe a person who contradicts himself. You showed definitions that contradicted what you were saying. Can you read because I can? Then you said they weren't your definitions so in a way, saying the definitions weren't legit. Then you said they were the most accurate definitions. You kept abandoning ship and changing your statements so that they favor you. Said Roy is clone. Oh no, I meant semi clone! The definition of clones don't even matter because semi clones are actually very unique in my eyes. IDK if you knew, but being a clone is actually a good thing. By then we were argueing a totally different thing and as I went over our arguement, realized I had you beat. I didn't want to argue anymore and now we are here.
I didn't said Roy IS a clone. I said he WAS a clone (as in, in Melee he was a clone):Do you even know what "clone" means? Let me QUOTE THE WIKI:
*quote*
Semi-clones (characters like Ganondorf, Luigi, Lucas, Wolf, etc):
*quote*
There is also what is known as Luigification:
*quote*
Ganondorf, Falco and Luigi are examples of that.
I never said they were not legit. I said this:They are fan favourites and Roy WAS a clone.
None of those quotes are edited. At least text from them isn't. I just highlighted what you said was contradicting what i said before. Want to now say that i edited them? They are right above those posts, near top of the page.How? It ISN'T MY definition, it is OFFICIAL ONE.
Oh, right. And it wasn't opinion after what we were arguing about was changed to something completly different. Either way, i have to post another update on something...Bagan, don't waste your precious time (and breath) playing endless verbal tennis with someone who is not going to change their opinion. You got much better things to be doing.
Omfg I can't stand this anymore. One of leekslap's posts had me feeling bad for liking someone's comment that called him out for the 12 yr old he is. But after seeing the nonsense he's posted ever since then, I think he really deserved the embarrassment, because clearly it wasn't enough.Well, in my (not native) language, Russian, it is, so, i take it as an insult.
I have proof you are wrong:
What is a clone, semi-clone, luigification, etc. definitions:
I didn't said Roy IS a clone. I said he WAS a clone (as in, in Melee he was a clone):
I never said they were not legit. I said this:
None of those quotes are edited. At least text from them isn't. I just highlighted what you said was contradicting what i said before. Want to now say that i edited them? They are right above those posts, near top of the page.
For the clones thing, clones are bad addition and semi-clones are just meh when compared to completly new character. But they are easier to make. Still doesn't means they must have higher priority because "quality over quantity". You know how much majority of fanbase hates SSB4's clones? Who also had similar reason for being a clone. If they would be semi-clones, it wouldn't be as bad of course.
Yes, our argument went from Pichu to...don't know what.
Urgh...What was the topic again?
I thought his Dark Samus debate that once was here wasn't that full of...stuff, so, i didn't stopped. And now i realize i wasted 3 hours i could have spent on something else.Omfg I can't stand this anymore. One of leekslap's posts had me feeling bad for liking someone's comment that called him out for the 12 yr old he is. But after seeing the nonsense he's posted ever since then, I think he really deserved the embarrassment, because clearly it wasn't enough.
Bagan, since somehow nobody has even bothered to tell you, you should ignore the little brat. I logged in just to say this. You know he's really not contributing to the development of this thread whatsoever, and his posts really are not worth your time.