New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Solbliminal]

"Without being as acquainted with FE as others, and given the limited number of clone slots that we have to work with, I see that the possibility of a new Mario rep (or most other franchises) outweighs adding another FE rep" If you have an opinion contrary to what I have, you're more than welcome to share it!

I already answered you with my post above.

But nitpicking apart mine doesn't serve any purpose.

It does when I'm one of the people counting the votes.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

I already answered you with my post above.

If you say so! I expressed that I'm not familiar with Fire Emblem or Lyn, and I downvoted her because I think that already having one clone spot taken by a FE character is plenty. If that's not a valid reason to downvote, then feel free not to tally it, but I wasn't aware that such guidelines existed. My bad!

 

[Solbliminal]

If you say so! I expressed that I'm not familiar with Fire Emblem or Lyn, and I downvoted her because I think that already having one clone spot taken by a FE character is plenty. If that's not a valid reason to downvote, then feel free not to tally it, but I wasn't aware that such guidelines existed. My bad!

Take it however you will. I'm just following the rules as they are dictated in the intro. But if it helps you to understand it a little better, we use the down-votes for characters that would ruin our experience with the game. Characters that you are indifferent to should not be down-voted for the sake of down-voting them. "Because they are taking a clone slot that should belong to another character" is not a legitimate reason to down-vote.

 

[Shin F.]

having one clone spot taken by a FE character is plenty.

Guys, just to weigh in on this, I see this reason in particular as valid. It's pretty fair to say that you don't think a spot should go to more than one character per series, even if we may not personally agree with it.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

Take it however you will. I'm just following the rules as they are dictated in the intro. But if it helps you to understand it a little better, we use the down-votes for characters that would ruin our experience with the game. Characters that you are indifferent to should not be down-voted for the sake of down-voting them. "Because they are taking a clone slot that should belong to another character" is not a legitimate reason to down-vote.

Ahhhhh, gotcha, that makes sense then yeah, strike that Lyn from the record! *Phoenix Wright point*

 

[Solbliminal]

Guys, just to weigh in on this, I see this reason in particular as valid. It's pretty fair to say that you don't think a spot should go to more than one character per series, even if we may not personally agree with it.

Is it? Consider me corrected.

 

[Shin F.]

Is it? Consider me corrected.

Well, we've certainly allowed this reasoning for people to downvote Pokemon characters before.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well, we've certainly allowed this reasoning for people to downvote Pokemon characters before.

Yeah, but with the contradiction in place is it really fair to accept the vote?

 

[Master-GM]

Guys, just to weigh in on this, I see this reason in particular as valid. It's pretty fair to say that you don't think a spot should go to more than one character per series, even if we may not personally agree with it.

^

This.

 

[Shin F.]

Yeah, but with the contradiction in place is it really fair to accept the vote?

Well, I was specifically referring to his last post where he said that he didn't think another FE character should get a clone spot since Roy already got one of them. The first reason he gave is, indeed, quite iffy. In any case, he took his down-vote back, so we don't have to count it this time. If we see contradictions, yeah, we should call them out, though.

But I've noticed that there are times (not the last couple of days, but over the last few weeks) when a character is downvoted and we (by that, I mean the entire thread and not just us counting the votes) jump on the reason a bit even when it's not contradicted by their other votes. I've been thinking about this a few days, and this is ultimately a thread and a poll for opinions and popularity. I think with all the technical reasoning, we may have lost sight of that a bit. We require reasons to make sure people aren't abusing their down-votes to play the numbers and boost their own characters, and to ensure it's because they would ruin the game and not because they can't imagine a moveset or something silly like that, but that doesn't always mean there needs to be a logical reason for it. It could be the dumbest reason in the world. It just has to be genuine.

 

[Master-GM]

I find it interesting how if someone downvotes Lyndis, a HUGE argument starts. Yet, if someone just downvotes a Sonic character JUST because they're third-party and no one questions it.

 

[Solbliminal]

Well, I was specifically referring to his last post where he said that he didn't think another FE character should get a clone spot since Roy already got one of them. The first reason he gave is, indeed, quite iffy. In any case, he took his down-vote back, so we don't have to count it this time. If we see contradictions, yeah, we should call them out, though.

But I've noticed that there are times (not the last couple of days, but over the last few weeks) when a character is downvoted and we (by that, I mean the entire thread and not just us counting the votes) jump on the reason a bit even when it's not contradicted by their other votes. I've been thinking about this a few days, and this is ultimately a thread and a poll for opinions and popularity. I think with all the technical reasoning, we may have lost sight of that a bit. We require reasons to make sure people aren't abusing their down-votes to play the numbers and boost their own characters, and to ensure it's because they would ruin the game and not because they can't imagine a moveset or something silly like that, but that doesn't always mean there needs to be a logical reason for it. It could be the dumbest reason in the world. It just has to be genuine.

Alright. So I was right in calling it out.

And to make it clear to the others, I'm not doing this for personal reasons guys. I'm just doing this as part of my job of monitoring the votes here. As it is part of our job to make sure the reasons for down-voting a character are legitimate reasons. Don't mistake this as my personal bias, because honestly I could care less if Lyn wins or not.

I find it interesting how if someone downvotes Lyndis, a HUGE argument starts. Yet, if someone just downvotes a Sonic character JUST because they're third-party, no one questions it.

It has been questioned in the past. There has already been many arguments about it before and the stance on it has never changed.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

Isn't this supposed to be a fun conversation about who we think should or shouldn't be included in future PM rosters? :/ so much negativity over hypothetical stuff.

And for the record, I don't think it contradicts by pointing out that Fire Emblem has received a clone roster spot while Mario technically hasn't.

 

[Shin F.]

Isn't this supposed to be a fun conversation about who we think should or shouldn't be included in future PM rosters? :/ so much negativity over hypothetical stuff.

And for the record, I don't think it contradicts by pointing out that Fire Emblem has received a clone roster spot while Mario technically hasn't.

Right, but that's not the reason you initially gave.

As much as I think Smash needs more female representation (it REALLY does), I don't think FE is deserving of a fourth slot in PM, especially over other franchises with less (Metroid, DK, etc).

You said you didn't think FE was worth a fourth overall slot, not that you thought it didn't deserve more than one Clone spot, which is actually very different. That's why I didn't say anything until you gave your other reason later - because Solbliminal was right.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

Right! I thought it was granted that Project M doesn't really touch the pre-established roster, deleting characters or whatnot. That representation is going to be there, mods or not, so the only thing we can comment on here is who will actually be added to the final modded product. Considering Project M has already added a third FE rep, I don't think a fourth (second clone spot) is worth it. Sorry if there was any confusion

 

[Warsaint777]

I think Lyn is a cool character, but I think the best approach with her as a char. would be to have her actually REPLACE ROY in some fashion, because 4 FE char's is absolutely oversaturation, and because more female characters should be encouraged. This is the only thing I think should be considered though. Four swordfighters from the same franchise is just seems absurd with the other unique characters and underrepped universes at our disposal.

 

[Shin F.]

I think Lyn is a cool character, but I think the best approach with her as a char. would be to have her actually REPLACE ROY in some fashion, because 4 FE char's is absolutely oversaturation, and because more female characters should be encouraged. This is the only thing I think should be considered though. Four swordfighters from the same franchise is just seems absurd with the other unique characters and underrepped universes at our disposal.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Ever.

And again, I don't see how you can support technology users like Ray and Andy and be against sword users for how many there are when there are just as many tech users as there are sword users. Literally, they have the same number of characters.

 

[Master-GM]

If we add Claus, there will be an even ammount of tech and sword fighters! (He uses tech+sword.)

 

[Solbliminal]

Right! I thought it was granted that Project M doesn't really touch the pre-established roster, deleting characters or whatnot. That representation is going to be there, mods or not, so the only thing we can comment on here is who will actually be added to the final modded product. Considering Project M has already added a third FE rep, I don't think a fourth (second clone spot) is worth it. Sorry if there was any confusion

I do think it is fair to say that they were only restoring Roy and Mewtwo as characters to the roster. It isn't like we were getting a completely new FE character. Just an updated character. Though as I said, I'm not against your votes. It is just the reasoning that I'm looking out for.

I think Lyn is a cool character, but I think the best approach with her as a char. would be to have her actually REPLACE ROY in some fashion, because 4 FE char's is absolutely oversaturation, and because more female characters should be encouraged. This is the only thing I think should be considered though. Four swordfighters from the same franchise is just seems absurd with the other unique characters and underrepped universes at our disposal.

It is about as much oversaturation as another Pokemon or Mario character. Roy will not be replaced, as PMBR has stated they will not replace anyone in the initial roster.

As for being a swordfighter, it means little to nothing when considering how the character actually plays. You look at Ike, then look Marth and Roy. Ike doesn't play anything like either of them aside from a charge B and counter move. Both of which even function differently. When considering characters like Lyn, she would play vastly different than the others in the same regard as Ike. It doesn't matter what weapon the character is carrying. If the character feels good to play, visual aesthetics are a non-issue.

Another point to bring up is that a Katana is nothing like a Claymore or the Standard Sword. Consider Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3. When you play as Dante or Vergil, you notice they don't fight the same way. The approach, execution, and over-all playstyle is completely different. Even visually. Another example is Ragna the Blood Edge, Jin Kisaragi, and Hakumen. Ragna, Jin, and Hakumen all have swords, but play COMPLETELY different. Even Jin and Hakumen sharing the same type of weapon, the Katana, have a completely different approach and playstyle based on their fighting style. If having a sword is still a complaint, then we might as well not have people who throw punches and kicks or those who carry guns, bows, and gimmicks. If this doesn't help you to understand, then nothing will. Sorry.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

On another note, a quick, informal question to anyone here: what's your favorite fan-made moveset for a clone candidate? I'm poring through the first page posts and am quickly becoming swamped

 

[Warsaint777]

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Ever.

And again, I don't see how you can support technology users like Ray and Andy and be against sword users when there are just as many tech users as there are sword users. Literally, they have the same number of characters.

Shin, as risky as it may be to assert myself to the vote tallier I have to say your apparent bias is wearing on my patience.

Your grasp on what makes a character unique is appearing more and more warped. Additionally irritating, you're even getting overtly indignant about the matter. You're striking me now as a mindless FE fanboy now. Suggesting that Marth and Roy (or even Marth and IKE) are just as discernible from each other as eg. Fox and ROB simply because the latter pair is "technological" or from the science-fiction GENERA is, I want to say, crazy.

I could wrap my head around yours a bit further if you were arguing the uniqueness of characters and concepts within the vast equivalency to the Sci Fi genera that is siply the Fantasy genera, eg. by way of wanting in various sorcerers or monsters, whatever, from the FE world. But you're straight up talking about the same damn character. An anime midieval swordfighter. I'm not here asking for more and more pilot space animals with laser sidearms. I'm asking for unique character concepts that happen to be from a science fiction genera and may have electrical gadgetry about their person in some degree and fashion.

Seriously. I could write three extensive essays on how ROB, Fox, Dark Samus, Ray, and ZSS are thoroughly unique from one another despite their sh*t 'being in space' or whatever your skewed logic was.

At this point I hope your influence on the votes is not much greater than the rest of us, because now I am concerned.

 

[Solbliminal]

Shin, as risky as it may be to assert myself to the vote tallier I have to say your apparent bias is wearing on my patience.

Going to have to stop you there. Nothing about what Shin is saying is being said in bias. If anything he is voicing against your bias because it is a close minded way of thinking. If you persist on believing otherwise than you are merely blind to anything that is not your bias and you should learn proper understanding.

 

[MLGF]

Real talk, as a long time FE fan I do not see anything interesting that Lyn adds besides her gender. So when people say she seems like a useless addition, I sympathize.
When I see people defensive about Lyn, I also bet barely any of them played an FE before Scrubwakening

 

[Solbliminal]

Real talk, as a long time FE fan I do not see anything interesting that Lyn adds besides her gender. So when people say she seems like a useless addition, I sympathize.
When I see people defensive about Lyn, I also bet barely any of them played an FE before Scrubwakening

Real talk, there were plenty of Fire Emblem fans before you that disagree. Including the person who got Lyn votes in the first place.

 

[MLGF]

I won't deny there are Lyn fans, but I think she's one of the less supported characters within the fanbase.
Same goes for Roy, but he's got teh phire so it's chill... or hot.

MLGF puns for Ganon tier

 

[Shin F.]

On another note, a quick, informal question to anyone here: what's your favorite fan-made moveset for a clone candidate? I'm poring through the first page posts and am quickly becoming swamped

Well, not that I like to show off, but my favorite is the one I made for my own favorite character, Ninten, which involves using a Yoyo for his normal and aerial attacks, and a few unique specials not used by the other Earthbound characters.
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-291#post-16518709

Shin, as risky as it may be to assert myself to the vote tallier I have to say your apparent bias is wearing on my patience.

I'm not the one who's biased here. The point is, there are just as many ways to use swords as there are technological weapons.

Your grasp on what makes a character unique is appearing more and more warped. Additionally irritating, you're even getting overtly indignant about the matter.

Lol, I'm afraid you have no idea how many unique movesets have been in this thread for the characters that you're writing off as not being unique. Indignant? Hardly. You may be seeing it that way, but I'll have you know I haven't voted for a single Fire Emblem character. I'm merely pointing out how you have no grasp on the concept that a sword can be used in many more ways.

You're striking me now as a mindless FE fanboy now.

And this part in particular is hilarious to me, because I've never even played a Fire Emblem game, and I haven't voted for a single Fire Emblem character. Honestly, this comment has made my day like you wouldn't believe. At this point, anything you say is pretty much moot. I mean, did I not post just on the other page how much better and more iconic Metroid is than Fire Emblem? Honestly, you're doing nothing but embarrassing yourself at this point. I'd advise you to not make such asinine assumptions if you don't wish to be viewed as an overly opinionated fool.

I could wrap my head around yours a bit further if you were arguing the uniqueness of characters and concepts within the vast equivalency to the Sci Fi genera that is siply the Fantasy genera, eg. by way of wanting in various sorcerers or monsters, whatever, from the FE world. But you're straight up talking about the same damn character. An anime midieval swordfighter. I'm not here asking for more and more pilot space animals with laser sidearms. I'm asking for unique character concepts that happen to be from a science fiction genera and may have electrical gadgetry about their person in some degree and fashion.

Like I said. Never played Fire Emblem, have no idea what it has to offer. You're the one who's being biased against someone merely because of their weapon.

Seriously. I could write three extensive essays on how ROB, Fox, Dark Samus, Ray, and ZSS are thoroughly unique from one another despite their sh*t 'being in space' or whatever your skewed logic was.

Please. I could devote an entire book to how different these guys are, just as I could for fantasy characters. The point is, you can't see past their sword to what makes them unique in the hundreds of different ways they can use them.

*Psst... Do you wanna know why the logic was skewed? It was because I was making the statement with YOUR logic.*

At this point I hope your influence on the votes is not much greater than the rest of us, because now I am concerned.

Honestly, your comments have me concerned for you. You're not gonna forget to breathe any time soon, are you?

 

[Solbliminal]

I won't deny there are Lyn fans, but I think she's one of the less supported characters within the fanbase.
Same goes for Roy, but he's got teh phire so it's chill... or hot.

MLGF puns for Ganon tier

On the contrary, I've actually met plenty of Fire Emblem fans in person who love Lyn. As for in the fanbase, I'm pretty sure her existence as an assist trophy wasn't just to add her. The only other character I hear voiced for is Hector and Eliwood. Lyn's votes speak pretty loudly for her. And if any of the Fire Emblem fans that actually play Project M (let alone Smash Bros.) cared, then we would be seeing one of those other characters up there in votes right now.

 

[Anti Guy]

Weighing in on the downvote thing. As long as the reason is not an opinion based on something that is obviously untrue, and as long as it's not a simple restatement of "I don't like him/her" (we want to know WHY) then it's okay.

 

[abra-ca-awesome]

Well, not that I like to show off, but my favorite is the one I made for my own favorite character, Ninten, which involves using a Yoyo for his normal and aerial attacks, and a few unique specials not used by the other Earthbound characters.
http://smashboards.com/threads/clon...ting-more-votes.341479/page-291#post-16518709

Holy cow, that's a fantastic moveset! Great job! I love the drawings especially, they really help make the character pop out of the screen. A tricky, stun-and-yo-yo PK user, and someone who transcends being a clone of his base characters in the game and provides a new fighting style. Consider me impressed :D
+1/2 Ninten

 

[MLGF]

On the contrary, I've actually met plenty of Fire Emblem fans in person who love Lyn. As for in the fanbase, I'm pretty sure her existence as an assist trophy wasn't just to add her. The only other character I hear voiced for is Hector and Eliwood. Lyn's votes speak pretty loudly for her. And if any of the Fire Emblem fans that actually play Project M (let alone Smash Bros.) cared, then we would be seeing one of those other characters up there in votes right now.

FE's competitive fanbase died to the Waifu consumption that was FE:A sadly. And yes, I doubt many FE fans play Smash seriously so I suppose I'm a minority of two groups and a minority minority of the mix.
I do know that the FE fanbase likes Ike and get hard ons from the Japanese games.

 

[JCOnyx]

Real talk, as a long time FE fan I do not see anything interesting that Lyn adds besides her gender. So when people say she seems like a useless addition, I sympathize.
When I see people defensive about Lyn, I also bet barely any of them played an FE before Scrubwakening

My first FE's were a bit of Sacred Stones and then Radiant Dawn. That's right, I played PoR's sequel first, which bothered me after finding out quite a bit. But this is probably why I'm supportive of Micaiah's inclusion, even though I know the fanbase generally dislikes her character entirely (Mary Sue my ***). I vastly preferred the parts that included the Dawn Brigade over the Greil Mercenaries before I did a second playthrough after beating PoR, then I liked them both equally.

 

[MLGF]

No one in the FE fan base will defend RD Ike.
No one.

I'm glad I can share the behavior of a fanbase that's even crazier then the Smash fanbase

 

[Anonistry]

This is... err... yeah. Honestly I sometimes wonder how much downvoting should have even been a thing. Like the rules say, indifference should not be a downvote, and honestly some of the more likely reasons, i.e. regarding moveset or style or whatever, are easily countered with "dude, its PMBR. They got dis."

Really, I think downvotes come down to the personal assumption that the character in question actively impedes one's enjoyment of the game, presently or in the future. THAT SAID, I will place myself in the camp that someone who is deliberately downvoting because they think that character's inclusion is over-representing a series/is potentially a cause for the under-representation of a favorite series... is legitimate. It seems like we can mostly agree that a downvote is fair if the user feels that the character's inclusion would personally negatively impact their experience... well, for some, a large part of Smash is being an All-Star series. And having fair represenation is a big part of their connection.

Trust me, Lyn, for example, can bring plenty of her own merit to the table. But so can everyone else. Again, PMBR. Has. Got. This. I promise. Just about anybody on this list can have awesome unique gameplay if they want. So frankly, saying a character, who could cause over-representation of a series, is keeping a character, who could extinguish under-representation, is valid simply because, well... yeah, Lyn can add a totally unique gameplay. So can the other guy. Don't forget, we only have limited slots, and I certainly would vote in such a way as to maximize the chances of my personal list making it to the top.

I mean, yeah, alot of the above is subjective... as it will be. This is a simple poll that is based, in the end, on the popularity, however justified, of characters possibly up to bat for new slots. If this is causing issues... well again, given how the system works, I would say the downvote itself is as much to blame. Its a kind of funky idea, since its supposed to say "well, I don't just think this guy isn't as good as the upvotes I picked, this guy is TOO subpar." Except for some people, its what is best or bust.

Whatever. I have no real stake in this. I like who I see, and the only thing I could care for actively trying to push won't happen anyways (sorry Hector.) I'm just saying, the downvote is a weird tool that probably is more trouble than it is worth.

 

[Solbliminal]

FE's competitive fanbase died to the Waifu consumption that was FE:A sadly. And yes, I doubt many FE fans play Smash seriously so I suppose I'm a minority of two groups and a minority minority of the mix.
I do know that the FE fanbase likes Ike and get hard ons from the Japanese games.

Kinda like how the non-Sonic fans immediately rush to Tails or Knuckles because they are iconic? I personally find that frustrating myself when people won't look past the over rated characters chosen by non-core fans of a series.

 

[alex6309]

Refresh my memory here since I haven't played FE7 in forever but can't Lyn use bows too? That could be interesting if it weren't just relegated to one attack.

 

[Anonistry]

Tis very true. Actually would hope if she makes it that it can be a part of her style. Hector can use swords, and Eliwood lances, all after promotions. But I never really felt that the other two found as much new tactics as Lyn did when she promoted and got bows. Whole different angle at that point, and it would be a shame if that didn't fine at least a hint of reflection...

 

[Shin F.]

This is... err... yeah. Honestly I sometimes wonder how much downvoting should have even been a thing. Like the rules say, indifference should not be a downvote, and honestly some of the more likely reasons, i.e. regarding moveset or style or whatever, are easily countered with "dude, its PMBR. They got dis."

Really, I think downvotes come down to the personal assumption that the character in question actively impedes one's enjoyment of the game, presently or in the future. THAT SAID, I will place myself in the camp that someone who is deliberately downvoting because they think that character's inclusion is over-representing a series/is potentially a cause for the under-representation of a favorite series... is legitimate. It seems like we can mostly agree that a downvote is fair if the user feels that the character's inclusion would personally negatively impact their experience... well, for some, a large part of Smash is being an All-Star series. And having fair represenation is a big part of their connection.

Trust me, Lyn, for example, can bring plenty of her own merit to the table. But so can everyone else. Again, PMBR. Has. Got. This. I promise. Just about anybody on this list can have awesome unique gameplay if they want. So frankly, saying a character, who could cause over-representation of a series, is keeping a character, who could extinguish under-representation, is valid simply because, well... yeah, Lyn can add a totally unique gameplay. So can the other guy. Don't forget, we only have limited slots, and I certainly would vote in such a way as to maximize the chances of my personal list making it to the top.

I mean, yeah, alot of the above is subjective... as it will be. This is a simple poll that is based, in the end, on the popularity, however justified, of characters possibly up to bat for new slots. If this is causing issues... well again, given how the system works, I would say the downvote itself is as much to blame. Its a kind of funky idea, since its supposed to say "well, I don't just think this guy isn't as good as the upvotes I picked, this guy is TOO subpar." Except for some people, its what is best or bust.

Whatever. I have no real stake in this. I like who I see, and the only thing I could care for actively trying to push won't happen anyways (sorry Hector.) I'm just saying, the downvote is a weird tool that probably is more trouble than it is worth.

Down votes are quite important, though. I mean, we could easily have a character that has 50 votes and 20 half votes, and they'be be pretty high up and seem really popular... but then look at the down-votes and there are like 150 of them. You see, just because a character has a lot of up-votes doesn't mean they're popular characters.

Take, for instance, Pichu. (Disclaimer: I support the little guy.) He has 48 up votes, which compared to other characters, would put him above fan-favorites like Skull Kid, Saki, Ray and Masked Man. But the thing is, he's got 68 down votes - more than any other character, bar Shadow. If we didn't have down votes, people would think Pichu has a lot more support than he really does, so see, it's important to weigh both the popularity and the anti-popularity of a character.

 

[Anonistry]

Admittedly that is a major scenario that justifies downvotes. Admittedly the more upvotes you get, the more the ability to actually say that someone is controversial is important.

Still... how many of those did you accept/would you accept now, given the chance? How many are based on the premise that Pichu would have to suck because of how he used to be, even though one of the explicit rules forbid downvotes solely because of a moveset that hasn't been made yet? Sure, he would come in as a vet with some predefinitions, but something tells me the PMBR would know what needs to stay, to go, and to be added to actually make him work. In the end, those downvotes are accepted despite this because some people will never really let go his past iteration, even though he probably could be made a far more compelling character in Project M. And we accept that because its definitely not indifference... they actively don't want to see him. Even if the basis of their disdain is technically "faulty", the fact Pichu carries baggage from the past means that the dislike is already there and can't be simply waved away by a new moveset. And I think the understanding of that gets the downvote counted.

And so my point: I think so long as you can hold your ground that a downvote isn't out of indifference, and isn't solely based on a moveset that hasn't surface yet, it should be valid. This includes an actual conviction that fair representation is important, which was/is more or less abra's position. Lyn, no matter how awesome, is another Fire Emblem character. Sure he mentioned being a sword user, and some of that also draws on the faulty "presupposed moveset". But part of it IS, quite simply... that she is another FE character, and he legitimately feels that takes from the experience. He isn't "indifferent" to Lyn being there... He flat out doesn't like the idea of another FE character.

 

[Saito]

I think Lyn is a cool character, but I think the best approach with her as a char. would be to have her actually REPLACE ROY

Stopped reading right there.

 

[Solbliminal]

And so my point: I think so long as you can hold your ground that a downvote isn't out of indifference, and isn't solely based on a moveset that hasn't surface yet, it should be valid. This includes an actual conviction that fair representation is important, which was/is more or less abra's position. Lyn, no matter how awesome, is another Fire Emblem character. Sure he mentioned being a sword user, and some of that also draws on the faulty "presupposed moveset". But part of it IS, quite simply... that she is another FE character, and he legitimately feels that takes from the experience. He isn't "indifferent" to Lyn being there... He flat out doesn't like the idea of another FE character.

Abra was free to hold his ground on Lyn. There was nothing being said that he couldn't. It was just the conflicting of his original reason that was in question. And even after that, he never once said that having another FE character would take from his experience in playing the game. He said that the character didn't deserve the space when compared to another character. It is far different than the instance you are trying to present. He is free to make that the grounds of his argument and we would accept that. But he hasn't, so bringing up this situation you speak of is completely pointless.