New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Saito]

Someone had a Pichu party without me?

How dare you.

 

[robosteven]

Downvote for the Ganon/Black Shadow thing. In hindsight, I really don't like that idea.

 

[arcticfox8]

By the way, found that post by Cmart I was thinking of.

It was only 9 pages back, that's quite the short memory you got there Arctic

Apparently
I even forgot to acknowledge this lmao

 

[Solbliminal]

Alright, I edited my post of downvotes since I shouldn't have put the worries of the PMBR in my own judgment. Also I didn't really think of a good reason to down vote Ray. But in my defense I was up until 4, so my train of thought was probably not where it usually was. I feel as though apologies are needed. I'll leave the brainstorming for character moves to myself.

This is a discussion thread man. You are free to share any ideas you have. Just don't let the times when you have no ideas to offer be a down-vote for that character. Down-votes should be reserved for characters you strongly dislike to the point it ruins your experience with the game.

 

[F. Blue]

Exactly. Serious guys, if all of these characters would ruin P:M for you, how do you guys ever enjoy anything? Here are the rules again real quick just to give you guys a refresher.

From a perspective that values matchup learnability, I want PMBR to be as conservative as possible with new characters. That's why I only voted for two and a half, and downvoted a slew of others.

More upvotes may follow, I just don't feel that strongly about them right now.

 

[Kazyx]

From a perspective that values matchup learnability, I want PMBR to be as conservative as possible with new characters. That's why I only voted for two and a half, and downvoted a slew of others.

More upvotes may follow, I just don't feel that strongly about them right now.

While it does seem wise to be as conservative with the choices as much as possible, I think it's important to think of the factors that come into play when trying to do these new characters. That's why so far our new characters have been characters we've had in previous installments. The material was already there, and it just had to be adjusted.

However, is this speculation not simply just for the fanbase right now, to see who you'd want to see and not to see? I feel pretty confident that the PMBR already has their roster selected, and are just keeping it as secret as possible to allow for the hype to be that much better.

So it's better, in this case, so simply go off of one's own personal opinion here, rather than how someone else would go about doing something.

Because if I had to honestly pick as if I was in the PMBR, I'm pretty sure my choices would be heavily controversial (Waluigi and Ridley especially by the completely split Smash fanbase). It isn't worth the heartache to try and go about it that way. Just the rules we have in place and your own personal opinion.

And whose to say they won't throw a curveball, much like Sakurai has done with characters such as Ice Climbers, R.O.B., and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[leekslap]

Wassup I'm new!

I'd like to downvote Toad, Waluigi, Pichu, Knuckles and Krystal.

I like Toad better as a B move lol. Actually I think some of these characters have potential but the way you are presenting them makes them feel irrelevant. Like Bowser Jr has no shortage of attacks( Koopa Clown, paintbrush, etc.) and the best you can do is a Bowser clone? Yes it's hard work but isn't worth it when you have a balanced, unique, and relevant character? The ones I'd really like to see are Ridley, Slippy, Dixie Kong and Bowser Jr. I think Slippy's potential is endless and it all depends how much work you want to put in.

He'd have R.O.B.'s old up special and he could drop his Reflector and use some pretty strange techniques with it. One that comes to mind is using it to make a projectile more accurate as if the opponent dodges it it comes back to hit if the Reflector is well placed or it could just make projectiles stronger. He could spawn weapons and his Blaster could be a strong laser that charges over time and is very slow. It hits like an uncharged smash attack. His final smash could be him firing. Smart Bombs and stuff to the stage like Snake. His side B could be the Slippy Slip or Mirage whatever. He starts out like Wolf's side B , leaps like a frog but messes up and come down instead so it's like a triangle. Unlike the other ones it's multi hit and can even spike if well spaced and timed so that it hits at the very end. There's way more you can do and he'd be the slowest and heaviest of Star Fox with the best recovery. He could be cloned from Wolf since he's the closest to Slippy.

 

[Sour Supreme]

I've yet to down vote anyone. It just doesn't feel right, since I know the PMBR is capable of great things no matter what the character.

Edit: I tried to down vote Goku.

 

[robosteven]

Upvoting slippy as a floaty spacey.

 

[Anti Guy]

From a perspective that values matchup learnability, I want PMBR to be as conservative as possible with new characters. That's why I only voted for two and a half, and downvoted a slew of others.

More upvotes may follow, I just don't feel that strongly about them right now.

While that's true, you're not expected to make that judgment for them. This poll is only to show what people want, and they can use that how they wish. When you start to try interpret what they want, then you mess that up.

That said, people should always still be considering what's possible and practical for the PMBR anyways when they're making crazy movesets (that are probably not even looked at by the PMBR) that are not feasible... and this snowballs when people actually start voting based on these movesets. This doesn't make sense because there's no indication that's what they'll use. You should be voting on the character, alone -- and the moveset should only matter when that character is obviously meant to be a clone (and even then, you wouldn't know exactly what kind of changes they would do if that character were to be a clone, so you'd just be voting on the base)

 

[Rasgar]

Wassup I'm new!

I'd like to downvote Toad, Waluigi, Pichu, Knuckles and Krystal.

Bear in mind that if you're going to downvote anyone, you have to provide reasonable explanations as to why.

Also, are you upvoting anyone here? It would be easier and clearer if you made a list rather than mentioning it in the middle of a paragraph.

 

[leekslap]

Oh ok. Pichu should just be a costume. Knuckles would either be a Sonic clone or a Meta Knight clone without any changes so NO. Toad is just Mario clone and I can't imagine what would be Peach's special move without him anyway. Waluigi is a shoehorned guy from only sport sand part games and for some reason uses vines too. He's already an assist trophy anyway. If we're gonna have a Star Fox character it's Slippy and Krystal is shoehorned in while Slippy is Fox's best friend and mechanic of the team.

Upvotes
- Ridley
- Slippy
- Dixie Kong
- Bowser Jr
- Ninten

I think Ridley should be the Little Mac of the air. Dixie Kong was only cut from Brawl cause of technical issues. EDIT: Ganon is fine as it is, I want Ninten now.

 

[Solbliminal]

Oh ok. Pichu should just be a costume.

Impossible. Pichu's frame, hitboxes, and hurtboxes do not match Pikachu's. This has been brought up over a million times over the duration of this thread.

Knuckles would either be a Sonic clone or a Meta Knight clone without any changes so NO.

I can somewhat understand the part about being a Sonic clone (even though I doubt they would share anything beyond Spin-Dash), but a Meta Knight clone? The only thing they share in common is gliding. That is like saying Lucario is a clone of Samus for having a giant energy ball B-Special, or Wario is a clone of Sheik for sharing the crawl function.

 

[leekslap]

Impossible. Pichu's frame, hitboxes, and hurtboxes do not match Pikachu's. This has been brought up over a million times over the duration of this thread.



I can somewhat understand the part about being a Sonic clone (even though I doubt they would share anything beyond Spin-Dash), but a Meta Knight clone? The only thing they share in common is gliding. That is like saying Lucario is a clone of Samus for having a giant energy ball B-Special, or Wario is a clone of Sheik for sharing the crawl function.

I imagine Knuckle's down B is that he digs then attacks. There's also the gliding and Knuckles would most likely have some hard hitting combo attack so it's like side B. Just give him Sonic's Homing Attack and a couple of changed moves and you're done. If we're gonna have another Sonic character, it would be Shadow.

As for Pichu then I take back my Pichu downvote and replace with Tails but only if Pichu is super overhauled to be godlike lol

 

[F. Blue]

Pichu gets the ultimate buff. Extra bragging rights if you win with him.

 

[Rasgar]

Waluigi is a shoehorned guy from only sport sand part games and for some reason uses vines too. He's already an assist trophy anyway. If we're gonna have a Star Fox character it's Slippy and Krystal is shoehorned in while Slippy is Fox's best friend and mechanic of the team.

What do you mean by "shoehorned"?

I imagine Knuckle's down B is that he digs then attacks. There's also the gliding and Knuckles would most likely have some hard hitting combo attack so it's like side B. Just give him Sonic's Homing Attack and a couple of changed moves and you're done. If we're gonna have another Sonic character, it would be Shadow.

What makes Shadow more viable than Knuckles? Both of them could be uninspired Sonic clones, but both of them have the potential to be much more than that.

 

[leekslap]

What do you mean by "shoehorned"?



What makes Shadow more viable than Knuckles? Both of them could be uninspired Sonic clones, but both of them have the potential to be much more than that.

I just don't like Krystal alright?

Have you seen SDOOM's Shadow? The Project M Shadow can just be a major revamp of True Shadow the Hedgehog Ver 13 maybe even use the Generations Shadow V2 by Nanobuds as it is unarguably the best Shadow model to date.

I think I need to come up with a Bowser Jr moveset before he turns out to be smaller lighter Bowser. His recovery special will be the Koopa Clown and his final smash could be any of the machines he uses in the Mario games: Mecha Bowser, Koopa Clown, Airship, etc. Bowser Jr's special move will be a single slow but strong fireball just like in the games. I'll come up with something later. Someone help me out1

 

[caldw19940]

What do you mean by "shoehorned"?



What makes Shadow more viable than Knuckles? Both of them could be uninspired Sonic clones, but both of them have the potential to be much more than that.

They might be referring to the fact Krystal wasn't originally even going to be part of a Starfox Game but it was changed into one. Thing is many games and characters are spawned from things that weren't going to be what they intended, Devil May Cry was originally going to be a more actiony Resident Evil game yet the end result was changed entirely into what is now arguably the most iconic Hack n Slash game of the PS2 era. On a side note there seems to be more fans who like Krystal over Slippy but for other "assets" to her character :V

I personally don't really want to see any more spacies at all at this point and would rather see more undereprestened iconic franchises be in but that's just me.

How much of a clone certain characters would be is somewhat a factor in some peoples decisions to down vote and while I don't think it's entirely true for every character since they could potentially be very different there are characters who people are upvoting BECAUSE they'd be easier to clone. This is why I'm against the inclusion of Dark Samus since 1. I don't like Samus' playstyle at the best of times but respect Samus' inclusion in the game, 2. Some want her in because she'd be easy to clone 3. Ridley's more iconic for the series as a whole

In the case of Sonic characters it's more a case of them being double reps for a 3rd party game while some 1st parties get 0 or only 1 rep that kinda weighs up against them more so than if they'd be clones or not. Least that's how I see it.

 

[Rasgar]

I just don't like Krystal alright?

That's cool I guess, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a good enough reason to tally your downvote.

Have you seen SDOOM's Shadow? The Project M Shadow can just be a major revamp of True Shadow the Hedgehog Ver 13 maybe even use the Generations Shadow V2 by Nanobuds as it is unarguably the best Shadow model to date.

The PM guys will be doing all of these characters from scratch, so don't let that influence how you vote.

 

[Renji64]

Upvote
Lyn
Knuckles
Saki
Skull Kid
Krystal
Downvote
Ridley Reason: Smash Series Boss: Not intresting character or worth the effort.
Paper Mario Reason: Random I do like him but not over other characters not much moveset options.
Pokemon Trainer Reason: He needs to stay not existing.
Waluigi. Reason: No There is enough mario reps they rolling deep.

 

[Solbliminal]

I imagine..

This is immediately where your problem starts.

Just give him Sonic's Homing Attack and a couple of changed moves and you're done.

That will never happen. That is just sheer laziness, which the Project M devs are no slackers. Plus, the only time Knuckles has ever done Homing Attack is when Sonic Team was, in fact, being lazy with titles like Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2, and what looks to be Sonic Boom.

If we're gonna have another Sonic character, it would be Shadow.

If this were the Sonic community, yeah. But this is the Smash community, and he quite frankly is ranking the absolute bottom right now.

...replace with Tails...

Give me a reason to record the down-vote, because so far you've given me nothing.

I just don't like Krystal alright?

This is understandable. If the character ruins your experience, it is a legitimate reason to down-vote.

Have you seen SDOOM's Shadow? The Project M Shadow can just be a major revamp of True Shadow the Hedgehog Ver 13 maybe even use the Generations Shadow V2 by Nanobuds as it is unarguably the best Shadow model to date.

As Rasgar said, this means nothing. The Project M devs do everything from scratch. They will not be using or basing their work off existing mods. They've already said this on their website when initially announcing the possibility of new characters.

 

[Solbliminal]

That's cool I guess, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a good enough reason to tally your downvote.

If you just don't like a character to the point where it ruins your enjoyment of the game than it qualifies as reasonable. That was the point of why the down-vote function was given to us.

@JCOnyx @ Shin F. @ Anti Guy

Quote me if I'm wrong about that guys, because that is how I understood it.

 

[Rasgar]

That will never happen. That is just sheer laziness, which the Project M devs are no slackers. Plus, the only time Knuckles has ever done Homing Attack is when Sonic Team was, in fact, being lazy with titles like Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2, and what looks to be Sonic Boom.

This has nothing to do with anything, but having just recently finished Sonic and the Black Knight (I guess I have a thing for bad Sonic games), I can step in and say that Knuckles is the only playable character in that game who can't do a homing attack.

 

[Solbliminal]

This has nothing to do with anything, but having just recently finished Sonic and the Black Knight (I guess I have a thing for bad Sonic games), I can step in and say that Knuckles is the only playable character in that game who can't do a homing attack.

Right! I actually forgot he didn't have that function there. But my point still stands.

 

[Rasgar]

Downvote
Ridley
Paper Mario
Pokemon Trainer
Waluigi.

As stated earlier, you need to provide reasons for your downvotes.

If you just don't like a character to the point where it ruins your enjoyment of the game than it qualifies as reasonable. That was the point of why the down-vote function was given to us.

Maybe I was wrong then. I figured the amendment to the rule was put in place to stop people from simply saying "well, I don't like so-and-so".

 

[Renji64]

As stated earlier, you need to provide reasons for your downvotes.



Maybe I was wrong then. I figured the amendment to the rule was put in place to stop people from simply saying "well, I don't like so-and-so".

okay i did it thanks.

 

[Solbliminal]

Maybe I was wrong then. I figured the amendment to the rule was put in place to stop people from simply saying "well, I don't like so-and-so".

Well I believe the reasoning stems further than that. Think of it from this perspective. A character who just rubs you the wrong way is added into a game you really enjoy. Playing against this character just frustrates you by the mere sight of said character. And no, not because of how they play in game. If the reason stems into being visually and mentally frustrated at the existence of a character, it can really break a person's enjoyment with the game entirely.

For me, that character has become Ridley. Though I haven't down-voted him because I find his arguments to be far more frustrating than his existence.

 

[Kazyx]

Downvote
Ridley Reason: Smash Series Boss: Not intresting character or worth the effort.
Paper Mario Reason: Random I do like him but not over other characters not much moveset options.
Pokemon Trainer Reason: He needs to stay not existing.
Waluigi. Reason: No There is enough mario reps they rolling deep.

While I may respect your opinions here, I do have some retorts I'd like to bring up:

Ridley - While he was a Smash Series Boss, he's always been seen as such, hence why he was put in a mode that could contain bosses. However, that is not to say he is not an interesting character or worth the effort. he has a long-time feud with Samus, who is the only character representing her franchise as a playable character.

You could say the same about Captain Falcon for F-Zero or Ice Climbers for Ice Climbers, however, these franchises have come and gone. We haven't had games for either of those franchises for a long time, and as such, they need less representation. The reason Lucas was brought in, if memory serves correctly (I might be wrong), was due to Mother 3 and Sakurai's original intent of replacing Ness with Lucas.​

However, Metroid is one of Nintendo's most well-known franchises, and it makes sense to give it a little more representation. We've started seeing this actually with the three Metroid Assist Trophies in Smash 4 (Metroid, Mother Brain and Dark Samus), compared to Brawl's one Metroid).​

Ridley can bring potential to the table, and can have his moveset pulled from a combination of all the Metrooid games he's appeared in, in one form or another (which is most of them so that gives him a lot of potential). he also represents another villain, something the cast to-date is very short on.​

Waluigi - While he has been seen in many Mario games such as Kart, Tennis, Party, Olympics, and so on, he is usually associated with Wario in one way or another. This is due to him being Wario's partner in Mario Tennis for the N64, which was his first appearance in the Mario franchise as a whole.

Much how like Yoshi came to represent the Yoshi franchise, as well as Donkey Kong being his own thing, and how Wario got split off to represent his WarioWare and Wario games, I feel something could work here for Waluigi. While he has not has his own franchise to speak of, he could help Wario "represent" the Wario franchise.​

He also has potential thanks to the many games he's been in. The Sports games were really good at making him unique in a variety of ways, such as:​

• • Swimming across the Tennis Court to recover the ball
  • Creating a wall of thorny vines behind him in Soccer/Real Football
  • Bob-Omb signature item in Mario Kart, prior to being a regular item
  • Zanny attitude, and overall a character who is full of himself
  • Comical attributes, akin to Wario but different due to vast differences in appearances

So he isn't lacking potential. He as well was the main villain of a single game; Dance Dance Mario Mix for the Gamecube. This would imply his dancing skills are to die for, and that could also be incorporated into his moveset, much like how Wario's blocky movement style is based around his earlier Gameboy days.
​

I have nothing to add in regards to Paper Mario and Pokémon Trainer, but I feel for the most part anyone who is not 3rd-Party stands some sort of chance in the roster. It's just a matter of whom gets more priority over other characters.

 

[NisforSmash]

Question to anyone willing to answer.

If the PMBR announced today that instead of all 5 clone engine spots being used, they were going to dedicate all their time on adding just one thoroughly fleshed out and completely balanced character while still following clone engine rules, who would you want it be?

For me i would say Isaac. He's 1. extremely popular among the fanbase. 2. not as controversial among the fanbase as Ridchu. 3. Just look at the guy. He has the aesthetic appeal of a smash character and the look of protagonist making him easily likable at first glance plus he'll fit in with the cast nicely. 4. His entire series has yet to be represented even though his games were fairly popular on the GBA and DS with all of them receiving average to above average reviews. 5. His moveset potential is insane because he can be a sword user or use earth/energy based attacks and since visually he looks like a Fire Emblem character or LoZ character animations can be recycled from a plethora of options.

 

[Camc10]

Paper Mario Reason: Random I do like him but not over other characters not much moveset options.

You don't think Paper Mario has moveset potential from everything in his games? His partners, the stickers, the hammer, the pixels, the badges, the items, the Star Spirits?

 

[Renji64]

You don't think Paper Mario has moveset potential from everything in his games? His partners, the stickers, the hammer, the pixels, the badges, the items, the Star Spirits?

I love the paper mario games i don't see them being able to realstictly make paper mario a good character with that engine.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I think I'd rather have one fleshed out character than 5 clones to be honest. I like clones but Project M has plenty of them at the moment.

Isaac is cool, and so is Ridley, Ray, Skapon, Ninten, and pretty much ANYONE suggested here. I'd be down with any of them.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I gotta upvote Pichu.

It wouldn't feel right if all of the Melee veterans didn't return somehow. I know that Pichu isn't exactly a favorite, but it would just feel odd to me to not see him with even Dr. Mario as an alternate costume to allow so many vets to return.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Well Nis, I guess Masked Man.

Too much love for the character to pick someone else.

 

[MLGF]

IF PM decides between two unique characters or one unique character and four clones, I'd take the latter.
Generally speaking, clones can play wickedly different.

 

[arcticfox8]

IF PM decides between two unique characters or one unique character and four clones, I'd take the latter.
Generally speaking, clones can play wickedly different.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[caldw19940]

A single character fully fleshed out would probably have to go to Isaac or Ridley due to how much they've been requested and both are very iconic characters from their respective series.

Who would I personally want if I didn't take in those two factors? I'd still be hoping the Ganon/Black Shadow combo could be considered, it's very easy to just reskin the current Ganon into Black Shadow as a second F-Zero rep whilst giving Ganon his own unique menacing moveset more like how he is from his games.

 

[yahyakun]

+1 to Loyd Irving
+1 to Paper Mario

-1 to Waluigi
-1 to Shadow

 

[Shin F.]

+1 to Loyd Irving
+1 to Paper Mario

-1 to Waluigi
-1 to Shadow

No Lloyd. Only characters that were in Brawl (as a trophy, sticker, etc) have a chance.

 

[arcticfox8]

+1 to Loyd Irving
+1 to Paper Mario

-1 to Waluigi
-1 to Shadow

You must provide a reason for downvotes + what Shin said