Ness vs Olimar

[Excellence]

As most of you know this match-up is pretty bad for us (40:60) and if you play a good Ness its (35:65). How do you guys see this match-up? What are some ways to deal with really good Ness players. Keep in mind we're playing at a very high level of play. Things like Hyphen Smashing for KOs, dash grabs, gimps (outside of Yellow Pikmin gimp), Fair for KOs, Ness' BThrow for KOs aren't happen very often if at all. My only problem was his usage of Nair to stop everything I could do.

***How do you stop Ness' Nair?***

 

[Llumys]

Your post didn't make sense, excluding the last sentence.

Anyway, predict and punish...

 

[:mad:]

You guys only give us trouble with approaching, other than that, it's no trouble.
Both Olimar and Ness'll be in a battle to gimp the other's terrible recovery.

If you want to win, don't throw pikmin. Nair destroys them, and a good Ness player can destroy your thrown pikmin, and toss in a second nair after.

 

[LanceStern]

I would think Ness's fair is more of a problem than nair. Ridiculous hitbox and priority.

 

[iRjOn]

Just space yourself use erm...what was it...the whitsle super armor when it is really needed.
AVOID PKF omg I cant stress that enough.
Its stupid it makes your pikmins tears dry up and they die
Except Joe the red one
:D
But dont let him approach really.
Dont pikmin toss stupidly.
Use piviot grabs lol they ****.
Except if they PKF i think >.>...
upb their fair.
Almost all of his air approaches upb it lol.

Thats all I can think of...
:\

Correct me if I'm wrong on any thing.

Well back to just lurking.

 

[:mad:]

Up-b won't work if the Ness shortups to a fair/nair.
The end lag from that up-b will be punished nicely.

 

[KillerSOS]

Ness is easy... he can't approach.

 

[Fino]

This thread makes my eyes bleed...


Especially when our own post stuff like this

Ness is easy... he can't approach.

fair...? play more ness's

Back to the OP:

As most of you know this match-up is pretty bad for us (40:60) and if you play a good Ness its (35:65). How do you guys see this match-up? What are some ways to deal with really good Ness players. Keep in mind we're playing at a very high level of play. Things like Hyphen Smashing for KOs, dash grabs, gimps (outside of Yellow Pikmin gimp), Fair for KOs, Ness' BThrow for KOs aren't happen very often if at all. My only problem was his usage of Nair to stop everything I could do.

***How do you stop Ness' Nair?***

I didn't know ness was 60:40... when has ness been as hard as marth, as for as I'm concerned this match-up is in our favor...

Also, when you play a "good" (insert character here), that doesn't change the match up ratio at all. Match-up ratios are based on playing with equal skill...

You post confuses me... did you know ganon's dair spikes. Or that meta knights shuttle loop and dsmash are kill moves (not in high level play though)?

If he SH nair's and then uses a land cancelled fair, try to pivot grab him. If he doesn't try ot fair, fsmash him on landing or do a dashing shield grab. If he does a regular jump and nair, sneak under him and usmash or do one of the previous options...
In short, follow what Llumys said earlier... predict and punish


~Fino

 

[KillerSOS]

This thread makes my eyes bleed...


Especially when our own post stuff like this



fair...? play more ness's

Back to the OP:


I didn't know ness was 60:40... when has ness been as hard as marth, as for as I'm concerned this match-up is in our favor...

Also, when you play a "good" (insert character here), that doesn't change the match up ratio at all. Match-up ratios are based on playing with equal skill...

You post confuses me... did you know ganon's dair spikes. Or that meta knights shuttle loop and dsmash are kill moves (not in high level play though)?

If he SH nair's and then uses a land cancelled fair, try to pivot grab him. If he doesn't try ot fair, fsmash him on landing or do a dashing shield grab. If he does a regular jump and nair, sneak under him and usmash or do one of the previous options...
In short, follow what Llumys said earlier... predict and punish


~Fino

Sorry but its true.

Just stay away and spam pikmin throw. pivot grab if he tries to get close. Lucas is MUCH harder than Ness.

Ness matchup is 70 - 30 if not more in our favor.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I... wouldnt say 70:30 our favor. 60:40 maybe, but Olimar doesnt beat Ness as bad as he beats Ike xD

And yes, Lucas is MUCH more difficult of a fight than ness. I'd be willing to fight that argument for 60:40 Lucas.

 

[KillerSOS]

I think its closer to 50:50 for Lucas... still runs into problems with a super campy Olimar.

 

[Excellence]

I really can't tell who's being serious and who isn't because a lot of you sound sarcastic and are thinking of things in really simple terms. Match-ups DO change at higher levels of play, an example of that is King Dedede vs Mr. Game & Watch. At lower levels of play, G&W has the advantage and is able to kill earlier than King Dedede because of his many set-ups or whatever you would like to call them. Stuff like DThrow into DSmash or tech chased Up Smash would happen in higher levels of play where people are able to more accurately avoid and predict those things. You might also want to take a look at the chart posted about character skill vs player skill to see how it affects overall performance and stuff.

The Ness I'm playing is attacking from one direction and making sure to DI behind me so I can't grab, but stays out of FSmash's hitbox when he does it.

 

[KillerSOS]

I really can't tell who's being serious and who isn't because a lot of you sound sarcastic and are thinking of things in really simple terms. Match-ups DO change at higher levels of play, an example of that is King Dedede vs Mr. Game & Watch. At lower levels of play, G&W has the advantage and is able to kill earlier than King Dedede because of his many set-ups or whatever you would like to call them. Stuff like DThrow into DSmash or tech chased Up Smash would happen in higher levels of play where people are able to more accurately avoid and predict those things. You might also want to take a look at the chart posted about character skill vs player skill to see how it affects overall performance and stuff.

The Ness I'm playing is attacking from one direction and making sure to DI behind me so I can't grab, but stays out of FSmash's hitbox when he does it.

Space him better?

Sorry not much advice for you. Post a vid and I can help.

 

[Llumys]

This thread makes my eyes bleed...

This thread is facepalm worthy, sadly.

Ness isn't really a problem, just space...

I'd like to mention a little tactic I do on Ness' who don't recover too well, though.

If they're under the stage, here's what I do:

1. run off the edge
2. tether immediately
3. wait for the chain to fall
4. drop down
5. toss

As I'm sure you all know, this gimps their PK Rocket.

There's a lot of things you can do to beat Ness, but start with not getting hit.

 

[Fino]

Match-ups DO change at higher levels of play,

By your logic andy g's olimar is 10:0 on every character in the game except m2k's metaknight... which would be a 60:40 m2k's mk

You're dumb
Toon link is gay

~Fino

 

[Excellence]

By your logic andy g's olimar is 10:0 on every character in the game except m2k's metaknight... which would be a 60:40 m2k's mk

You're dumb
Toon link is gay

~Fino

I gave you a chart to look at and I'm not the only one who feels this way, a lot of respected players would agree. Some things just aren't practical once you're playing well.

 

[Sudai]

I gave you a chart to look at and I'm not the only one who feels this way, a lot of respected players would agree. Some things just aren't practical once you're playing well.

You obviously don't know a thing about match-up charts. The ratios are determined when two characters are being played at the PEAK of their Meta-game, so a player's skill doesn't even come into focus. Match-up charts display the -potential- in a match. Saying "When one player is better, the match-up ratios change!" **** no they don't. It just means that one player is better.

 

[Llumys]

You obviously don't know a thing about match-up charts. The ratios are determined when two characters are being played at the PEAK of their Meta-game, so a player's skill doesn't even come into focus. Match-up charts display the -potential- in a match. Saying "When one player is better, the match-up ratios change!" **** no they don't. It just means that one player is better.

Exactly.

getownedscrubolololol

My Olimar is 99:1 to Fino's Olimar because I'm just ridiculously better than him.

No.

Olimar vs Olimar is 50:50. <<;

 

[KillerSOS]

Lol Ness CANT approach a good olimar. not even the best ness can approach he has no tools to do so.

70-30

 

[DtJ Hilt]

My Olimar is 99:1 to Fino's Olimar because I'm just ridiculously better than him.

i lol'd

 

[Fino]

Lol Ness CANT approach a good olimar. not even the best ness can approach he has no tools to do so.

70-30

Scrub.... (Ness' fair)
You're almost as dumb as this kid
Toon link is gay

~Fino

 

[asob4]

uhhh well the only one who ever said 60-40 ness was vice grip, and he got beat a lot by rich brown and awex down in san diego, i only saw him win one game vs either of them >.>
i've yet to play him

theorycraft says oli has advantage

 

[iRjOn]

Fino guys why so mean?
O.O

but Excellence match ups they dont change man.
The only reason why a match will change is because of the stage or because of strategy

Yea id really know about the Oli vs Ness that well as Fino said play other Ness's that ness you play
Probally, no offence to you, is better than you.

Yea Ness can approach wih a fair
it eats thrown pikmin and fsmash i think.
But you can grab him i think
I dislike PKF to me its a prob but it might not be to most.

Fino what you trying to say about Toon LInk >_>...

Spoiler

cant even say olimars gay...

 

[KillerSOS]

Scrub.... (Ness' fair)
You're almost as dumb as this kid
Toon link is gay

~Fino

You sir are a scrub. You play a horrible Olimar. Too aggressive by far only costs you in the long run. Ness CANT approach with fair... have you heard of this cool thing called your SHIELD???

 

[Fino]

You sir are a scrub. You play a horrible Olimar. Too aggressive by far only costs you in the long run. Ness CANT approach with fair... have you heard of this cool thing called your SHIELD???

What's your tournament record again? I searched the olimar tournament results thread and your name didn't turn up once
With the exception of the mwcc, my lowest placing is 7th out of 40
Toon link is gay

~Fino

 

[KillerSOS]

What's your tournament record again? I searched the olimar tournament results thread and your name didn't turn up once
With the exception of the mwcc, my lowest placing is 7th out of 40
Toon link is gay

~Fino

I don't post in the tourney ranking on Olimar boards. Lolz.

Won one and thrid at the other.

Lol you played horrible at MWCC because it was good players.

 

[Uffe]

Wow. You guys sound like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to Ness. Play more Ness', please.

 

[Rinehart]

What's your tournament record again? I searched the olimar tournament results thread and your name didn't turn up once
With the exception of the mwcc, my lowest placing is 7th out of 40
Toon link is gay

~Fino

I don't post in the tourney ranking on Olimar boards. Lolz.

Won one and thrid at the other.

Lol you played horrible at MWCC because it was good players.

Keep this thread on topic guys ;D

 

[Fino]

I don't post in the tourney ranking on Olimar boards. Lolz.

Won one and thrid at the other.

Lol you played horrible at MWCC because it was good players.

Actually, I beat a lot of good people, and I won MM's against those 'good people' as well.

As for that, I've played domo a few times (the 3rd place finisher) and I've only lost to him once

I guess beating people like alpha zealot, dark peach, anther, and so don't quite meet your standards?

You've placed high at two tourney's while I've done well at several. Stop acting like your amazing, back to the original arguing point... Ness can approach olimar. Play more ness.


~Fino

 

[Cook]

This thread is too funny.

 

[KillerSOS]

Actually, I beat a lot of good people, and I won MM's against those 'good people' as well.

As for that, I've played domo a few times (the 3rd place finisher) and I've only lost to him once

I guess beating people like alpha zealot, dark peach, anther, and so don't quite meet your standards?

You've placed high at two tourney's while I've done well at several. Stop acting like your amazing, back to the original arguing point... Ness can approach olimar. Play more ness.


~Fino

Ness has nothing vs Olimar.

Play better.

 

[Flamingo]

Fino is horrible. Learn to play.

 

[Flamingo]

Double post because my sig ***** yours.


.

 

[Uffe]

Ness has nothing vs Olimar.

Play better.

Seriously. What are you going to do? Throw your Pikmin? Thanks for the fire wood. Ness' nair basically does everything against Olimar's attacks. Ness' PK Fire goes further than Olimar's grab range. The only thing truly dangerous for Ness in this match up are the yellow Pikmin. The only big thing Olimar has going for him is his aerials and smashes. Even so, you'd better figure out what goes through Ness' fair.

 

[Iron Asian]

The Nesses I've played usually SH a Fair and then if you shielded, they would land in back of u and Bair. You just need to predict him better. If he's approaching from the air, try the UpB, it has higher priority. Also try getting under him when hes in the air, since Fair can't hit you underneath and Oli's Uair outprioritizes Ness' Dair

 

[KillerSOS]

The Nesses I've played usually SH a Fair and then if you shielded, they would land in back of u and Bair. You just need to predict him better. If he's approaching from the air, try the UpB, it has higher priority. Also try getting under him when hes in the air, since Fair can't hit you underneath and Oli's Uair outprioritizes Ness' Dair

Up B is not a safe move. At all.

 

[KBM]

yeah UP+B is a bad idea against ness, he just moves too quickly

and apparently (im not sure if this was implied by the "fire wood" metaphor) when they knock pikmin off themselves, it refreshes their moves, so sticking pikmin for them to nair off is a pretty bad idea.

i dont see how you can still believe that ness can't approach... two really good jumps and his fair are the "tools to do so", as someone claimed in the context of ness lacking them. Go play a friendly against NessFTW... he will approach...

 

[KillerSOS]

yeah UP+B is a bad idea against ness, he just moves too quickly

and apparently (im not sure if this was implied by the "fire wood" metaphor) when they knock pikmin off themselves, it refreshes their moves, so sticking pikmin for them to nair off is a pretty bad idea.

i dont see how you can still believe that ness can't approach... two really good jumps and his fair are the "tools to do so", as someone claimed in the context of ness lacking them. Go play a friendly against NessFTW... he will approach...

Online is beyond horrible....

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Online is beyond horrible....

online will at least get you some matchup knowledge against ness. Something you obviously dont have.

 

[KBM]

online Will At Least Get You Some Matchup Knowledge Against Ness. Something You Obviously Dont Have.

Qft.


10qft.