Ness Rough Frame Data (WIP)『Wii U & 3DS 1.0.8』

[PKBeam]

OK , this will be a WIP to be completed over two or three days, hopefully.
Some things to check out are Fair, I tested it multiple times and it seems to have been made faster (8 -> 6). And landing lag seems to be 20 instead of 26.
Other stuff that seems to be 1-2 frames faster is probably because i had a bad counting method last time, so just ignore that.

Next on the agenda is:

• Grab duration frames
• Specials

And that'd be it.
I really don't think customs are necessary right now, so i won't do them.

Spoiler: Normals

Spoiler: Jab

Jab
Hits: 3, 6, 12
Total: 41

• Previously hit 3, 9, 18.
• The total was 44 before.

Spoiler: Dash Attack

Dash Attack
Hits: 8, 15, 22
Total: 39

Spoiler: Ftilt

Ftilt
Hits: 7
Total: 34

• Angled Ftilt still does 1% more

Spoiler: Utilt

Utilt
Hits: 7
Total: 31

Spoiler: Dtilt

Dtilt
Hits: 3
Total: 13

• Can loop into Dtilt after frame 10

Spoiler: Fsmash

Fsmash
Hits: 21
Total: 54

Spoiler: Usmash

Usmash
Hits

Behind, initial: 6
In front, initial: 12
Behind, latest: 30​

Total: 55

Spoiler: Dsmash

Dsmash
Hits:

Behind, initially: 10
Behind, perfect spacing: 13
In front: initially: 23
In front, perfect spacing: 27​

Total: 45

Spoiler: Nair

Nair
Hits: 5
Total: 35
Landing Lag: 18

Spoiler: Fair

Fair
Hits: 6, 10, 14, 17
Total: 39
Landing Lag: 20

Spoiler: Bair

Bair
Hits: 8
Total: 34
Landing Lag: 17

Spoiler: Uair

Uair
Hits: 8-11
Total: 41
Landing Lag: 14
Dair
Hits: 20
Total: 59
Landing Lag: 28

Spoiler: Grabs and Throws

Spoiler: Grabs and Pummel

Grab
Hits: 6

Dash Grab
Hits: 7

Pivot Grab
Hits: 8

Grabs need more testing

Pummel
Total: 7
Hits: 3

Spoiler: Throws

Fthrow
Total: 35

Bthrow
Total: 35

Uthrow
Total: 36

Dthrow
Total: 51

 

[Noa.]

So I notice a couple of differences between the data here and our previous data.

Fair comes out sooner.

Bair comes out sooner.

Dash grab comes out sooner.

Pivot grab comes out sooner.

These differences are off by one or two frames. Are you sure they're real changes and that you're not making mistakes?

For reference here's the mastercore data for patch 1.0.4:

http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-smash-4-3ds-1-0-4-frame-and-hitbox-data.383724/

And you put all of that data and more into a the combined data thread here:

http://smashboards.com/threads/ness-combined-frame-data『wii-u-1-0-2』『3ds-1-0-4』.404840/

Those seem to be the only differences. For sure the old values were 100% correct and we know that cause of mastercore data. So any changes now definitely came with this patch, and are not a mistake that you made previously. I'm interested to know whether or not we actually got slight buffs on a handful of moves.

Probably undeserved honestly. Ness doesn't need more buffs.

 

[Earthbound360]

If these frame changes are real, then I'm pleasantly shocked XD

 

[Tikao]

didn't thought buffs would happen, but I'm sure i can live with that :3
(meanwhile diddy getting destroyed again)

 

[PKBeam]

ok the grab stuff, i'm not sure about, that needs retesting but i tried Fair four times and every time i got frame 6.
bair i'm fairly confident about but could do some more testing.

also i have a feeling that PKF's pillar was shortened a bit in duration.

 

[Noa.]

How do you test frame data? I would help confirm it if you wanted me to.

 

[PKBeam]

on wii u i just go on training mode, set 1/2 speed and record the gamepad at 30fps. it'd also work with full speed at 60fps.
i've gotten consistent results and i believe the method is sufficiently accurate.

 

[Greward]

I don't think dash grab can be any faster. Currently it's frame 8, there are no dash grabs in frame 7 in the game so no reason to give it to Ness.
Pivot grab is slightly slower than most (frame 10, the default is 9) so I could see a frame reduction, although I doubt it.

Fair / Bair changes might be reasonable although I don't know why they would be buffing Ness.

 

[Funen1]

My testing suggests none of the above-mentioned frame changes are real. The first hit of F-air still trades with Ganondorf's Jab 1 (frame 8), and B-air still trades with Dedede's Jab 1 (frame 10). Ness' dash grab beats out Dedede's dash grab (frame 9) but gets beaten out by his standing grab (frame 7) and Ganondorf's Jab 1 (recall attacks beat grabs). Ness' pivot grab beats out Zelda's Jab 1 (frame 11) but gets beaten out by Dedede's dash grab and Jab 1.

I also noticed another error in the OP's list. U-smash's "in front, initial" number is listed as frame 12, but I found it's still frame 9, as it clanks with Donkey Kong's F-tilt (frame 9) but beats out anything slower like Dedede's Jab 1.