Ness custom moves

[tomvoxx]

Think he will get Lucas's moves as his custom ones?

 

[grizby2]

jwittz said something about ness getting pk freeze as an unlockable move.

heres his stream on twitch http://www.twitch.tv/thejwittz

it looks like lucas is going to live on though ness, special move-wise anyway.
my question is that if we get pk freeze, psi magnet (lucas), pkt (lucas), and pk fire (lucas), then what are the OTHER 4 moves gonna be?

 

[tomvoxx]

Probably variations of each and maybe others based on other earthbound characters moves

 

[Ryan.]

I heard about PK Freeze, but I'm curious if he will get Lucas' other specials?

 

[Yink]

So far, I've heard he gets PK Freeze, a PKT that goes through people (much like Lucas) and then a PKF that ignites on anything (shields, counters). The latter two are still very unknown, but I just thought I'd bring up the speculation for now. I'll know in a day or so and report back.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Someone make best friends with a streamer and ask

 

[Icy_Eagle]

neutral b 2# : pk flash that has almost no horizontal movement, goes higher vertically, does less damage
neutral b 3# : lucas' pk freeze
side b 2# : less range, more ending lag, fire pillar is bigger and deals considerably more damage
side b 3# : lucas' pk fire
up b 2# : lucas' pk thunder
up b 3# : slow big bolt that goes through opponents and deals farily high damage. pkt2 is very short but super strong
down b 2# : psi magnet that wont absorb, but draws opponent towards you and does damage on release
down b 3# : lucas' psi magnet

 

[joniho]

Just to clarify some of Icy_Eagle's descriptions:
(names marked with * were pulled out of my butt, because localization)

BY THE WAY:
These specials ARE B-Reversible. Rejoice!

======

Neutral B-1:
PK Flash
- 37% damage (fully charged from the ground)

Neutral B-2:
Rising PK Flash
(ライジングPKフラッシュ)
- 24% damage (fully charged from the ground)
- Travels upward twice as high as normal PK Flash, but does not come back down
- Starts extremely slow but speeds up slightly
- Little horizontal control
- Hot pink-colored

Neutral B-3:
PK Freeze
(PKフリーズ)
- 19% damage (fully charged from the ground)
- Same trajectory/control as normal PK Flash (not as far/fast as Lucas's)
- Freezes (like Lucas's PK Freeze)

======

Side B-1:
PK Fire
- 20% if all hits connect

Side B-2:
PK Flame Pillar
(PKフレイムピラー)
- 35% if all hits connect (if terrible DI)
- Less range
- Slower
- More ending lag when used from the ground, BUT normal ending/landing lag after using in the air
- Knocks opponent up at an angle
- Taller (it's a pillar, yo)

Side B-3:
Pushy* PK Fire
(ふっとびすPKファイヤー)
- First hit for 1%, second hit for 9% with knockback
- More range
- Faster travel speed
- Slower startup
- Shoots horizontally when used in the air (same as Lucas's)
- Same horizontal momentum shift as normal PK Fire (Does not push Ness back as far as Lucas's did)

------
NOTES ABOUT PK FIRES:
(PK Fire in the air still slows Ness's horizontal momentum, eventually to a stop, but the below techniques give extra buffer before the slow/stop occurs)
- PK Jump is possible (used RIGHT when you double jump will make him do a full jump forward at a 45-degree angle)
- PK Fire used in the middle of your double jump animation (before Ness's head reaches the 6 o'clock position) will make him do a double jump cancel at a 45-degree angle. The distance covered is affected by pre-PK Fire horizontal momentum.
- If you jump backwards before performing the double jump cancel or rising double jump PK Fire, Ness's momentum will shift forward (the rising double jump PK Fire gives significantly more forward momentum)

Image representation of grounded PK Fire travel distances:
(interestingly, they all line up perfectly with the edges of the buildings on the right side of Magicant-FD)

------

======

Up B-1:
PK Thunder
- PKT1: 8% damage
- PKT2: 25% damage

Up B-2:
Piercing* PK Thunder
(貫通PKサンター)
- PKT1: First hit 7% with knockback, possible to link the tail for 3 hits of 1%
- PKT2: Point-blank deals 22% damage with multiple hits (yep, Lucas's PK Thunder)
- Dark purple-colored

Up B-3:
Big PK Thunder
(ビッグPKサンダー)
- PKT1: 12% damage
- PKT2: 30% damage
- Very large
- Very good knockback
- Extremely slow and difficult to steer
- PKT2 distance noticeably shorter (between 50% and 75% of a normal PKT2)
- Green! (pretty much the lovechild of PK Thunder and PK Flash)

======

Down B-1:
PSI Magnet
- No damage
- On release, pushes away nearby opponents

Down B-2:
Suction* PSI Attack
(吸引サイアタック)
- On release, 10% damage close to center, 5% damage on edge
- Pulls opponent towards you while held
- Cannot absorb projectiles

Down B-3:
Front PSI Magnet
(フロントサイマグネット)
- On release, 9% damage
- Same size as new PSI Magnet (BIG)
- Does not turn automatically when projectiles come from behind

------
NOTES ABOUT PSI MAGNETS:
- If you use PSI Magnet immediately after a jump from the ground, Ness will hover up slightly.
- If you use PSI Magnet immediately after his second jump, it will halt all momentum (seems to work only up to a certain frame)
- If you release B at any point before landing (regardless of the "exiting PSI Magnet" animation), you will have minimal landing lag
------

 

[tomvoxx]

Very informative, thanks. Lucas will live on through Ness's custom movesets.

 

[Ryan.]

I'm glad that he got all of Lucas' specials then since he was cut. I preferred Lucas in Brawl so I will probably be customizing Ness a lot.

Now if only Ness borrowed some of his aerials and his up smash.

 

[sageoflight]

Ness looks really great this time around, woah.

 

[L9999]

So with the customs we can make something similar to P:M Ness then?

 

[isoZero]

Up B-2:
貫通PKサンター
(Piercing* PK Thunder)
- PKT1: First hit 7% with knockback, possible to link the tail for 3 hits of 1%
- PKT2: Point-blank deals 22% damage with multiple hits (yep, Lucas's PK Thunder)
- Dark purple-colored

Do you know how it controls? Does it curve as sharply as Lucas's PKT in Brawl? In Brawl, Lucas could recover very quickly because the PKT rotated around his body almost perfectly for a nice diagonal recovery.

 

[L9999]

A video of the custom moves in action would be appreciated if somebody can.

 

[joniho]

Do you know how it controls? Does it curve as sharply as Lucas's PKT in Brawl? In Brawl, Lucas could recover very quickly because the PKT rotated around his body almost perfectly for a nice diagonal recovery.

Yes, it controls tight like Lucas's. While on the ground, you can turn it immediately to do PKT2 (whereas the stock PKT needs a bit more space).

A video of the custom moves in action would be appreciated if somebody can.

I don't use a video capture card, unfortunately. :/

 

[Ganreizu]

So with the customs we can make something similar to P:M Ness then?

His magnet specials offer a lot of potential, and his side-B becomes a lot better with customs. Might not be P:M exactly but it's very similar with all his buffs considered. Very excited to play him.

 

[Sonicjamareiz]

So does Ness have zap jump now that he have lucas's moves?

 

[Cardboardo]

So does Ness have zap jump now that he have lucas's moves?

This is a totally new physics engine so I doubt things like that will carry over, unfortunately. Maybe there will be a new exploit.

 

[Xzsmmc]

He gets so many of Lucas' moves, yet no Lucas alt. Sigh.

 

[Severn]

I'm pleased he gets Lucas's specials, but at the end of the day he is still not Lucas.

 

[isoZero]

No usmash, no dsmash, no bair, no tether = definitely not Lucas.

 

[Skyfox2000]

So Lucas has no chance of coming back now. right?

 

[joniho]

Found some interesting PK Fire properties that might've been mentioned elsewhere, but PK Jump is back!

------
NOTES ABOUT PK FIRES:
(PK Fire in the air still slows Ness's horizontal momentum, eventually to a stop, but the below techniques give extra buffer before the slow/stop occurs)
- PK Jump/Firebound is possible (used RIGHT when you double jump will make him do a full jump forward at a 45-degree angle)
- PK Fire used in the middle of your double jump animation (before Ness's head reaches the 6 o'clock position) will make him do a double jump cancel at a 45-degree angle. The distance covered is affected by pre-PK Fire horizontal momentum.
- If you jump backwards before performing the double jump cancel or rising double jump PK Fire, Ness's momentum will shift forward (PK Jump/Firebound gives significantly more forward momentum than the cancel)
------

If I had a screen capture setup I would show you. I could probably use a webcam over Skype if any of you want.

 

[Waael]

Just to clarify some of Icy_Eagle's descriptions:
(names marked with * were pulled out of my butt, because localization)

Thank you for this post! It's so helpful =]

 

[MagnesD3]

Lol at people thinking Lucas's specials are what mattered.

 

[Ganreizu]

PK Jump/Firebound is back!

Does that mean super jumping with horizontal pk fire?

 

[DoubleYooToo]

I'm thinking the best options are going to be:
- Rising PK Flash, because even if it is situational there's at least a situation where it'll be useful, unlike the other 2
- Standard PK Fire, because it's such an important trapping tool (SDI seems to be gone so get hype)
- Lucas's PK Thunder, harder to gimp and a better recovery, even if it's not so good as a finisher (Who uses PK Thunder offensively anyway?)
- Magnetic PSI Magnet (lol) just looks like a very useful move with more application than the projectile absorbing one.

 

[Funen1]

I'm thinking the best options are going to be:
- Rising PK Flash, because even if it is situational there's at least a situation where it'll be useful, unlike the other 2
- Standard PK Fire, because it's such an important trapping tool (SDI seems to be gone so get hype)
- Lucas's PK Thunder, harder to gimp and a better recovery, even if it's not so good as a finisher (Who uses PK Thunder offensively anyway?)
- Magnetic PSI Magnet (lol) just looks like a very useful move with more application than the projectile absorbing one.

- Agreed. Maybe gives him an option for vertical KOs.
- You can still VI out of it though, and I've seen people mash a jump or what have you in those recent tournament videos. I actually preferred Lucas' PK Fire in Brawl because you can use it effectively in the air.
- PKT1 is a good juggling tool, and PKT2 is strong enough that it's worth trying to use it as a finisher (not that it's easy, but still). Ness' PKT1 is arguably better because it disappears on contact, meaning Ness won't always leave himself open during juggling attempts. It also can't be gimped immediately on startup anymore.
- It's better if the opponent doesn't have an absorbable projectile. Otherwise, Lucas' version can still heal you and deal damage if spaced right.

 

[joniho]

Does that mean super jumping with horizontal pk fire?

Nope!

(BTW I've only confirmed PK Jump actually. I got my terms confused, as I haven't been able to PK Firebound without B-Sticking. I've edited the post)

I'm thinking the best options are going to be:
- Rising PK Flash, because even if it is situational there's at least a situation where it'll be useful, unlike the other 2
- Standard PK Fire, because it's such an important trapping tool (SDI seems to be gone so get hype)
- Lucas's PK Thunder, harder to gimp and a better recovery, even if it's not so good as a finisher (Who uses PK Thunder offensively anyway?)
- Magnetic PSI Magnet (lol) just looks like a very useful move with more application than the projectile absorbing one.

I'm actually a huge fan of the default PK Flash and default PK Thunder.
- With the new ledge mechanics, PK Flash is extremely useful for hanging or recovering opponents.
- I prefer the chase game with default PK Thunder's unmatched speed

I'm still on the fence about default PK Fire and Lucas's PK Fire. I've noticed a couple opponents still manage to wiggle out of the default PK Fire, or even counter through it (Little Macs have been able to do this multiple times with me). I think it definitely depends on if I want a keep-away strategy paired with PK Thunder, or a rushdown strategy with grabs.

 

[Tikao]

I'm still thinking about that huge pk-fire

should be harder to get out and has just more ENDlag, the move itself is still as fast as normal pk-fire

even if they get out of it, they will simply burn long enough to get like a lot of percentages (40% at max. , even if they get out of it at 30%, then that's still a lot of damage)
it's not harder to hit, just easier to punish

if you miss a normal pk-fire, then you should get punished anyway and ness getting grabbed isn't as bad anymore as it used to be
but that just depends on how much more endlag this move has (if it is long enough for someone to just walk over to you and hit you with a charged smash, then that's a different story)

the point is, pk-fire is slow anyway, a good opponent will punish it anyway most of the time


but it could be usefull for one thing, regardless of that : zoning

the fire pillar is HUGE, if you got a matchup, where you can activate that fire pillar on itself (like on a pikmin, rob's gyro, robin's elfire pillar etc.) then you limit the options of your opponent, they pretty much can't engage you until the fire is gone

you can stay in the fire and use another pk-fire without being punsihed, just use pkt1 behind it ... it gives you stage control


but normal pk-fire or lucas' pk-fire are probadly the way to go for most matchups

 

[joniho]

I'm still thinking about that huge pk-fire

should be harder to get out and has just more ENDlag, the move itself is still as fast as normal pk-fire

I've discovered that all PK Fire variants have the exact same ending/landing lag if used in the air.
Although it's risky to get into close range, an aerial PK Flame Pillar can be followed up more easily than a grounded PK Flame Pillar.

As for their velocity, I haven't timed them yet but it looks like each PK Fire ends after the same amount of time after leaving Ness's hands (about 0.25 seconds). For this reason, PK Flame Pillar definitely travels slower than normal PK Fire.

Also, I added an image representation of the distances covered by the three grounded PK Fires.

 

[Tikao]

hmm, i want that move to be good, hope it can be used in some matchups

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Am I the only guy who thinks Lucas has got 4 entirely new specials to make him unique?

 

[FlappyFalco]

Am I the only guy who thinks Lucas has got 4 entirely new specials to make him unique?

Luigi has Mario's Fireballs and Falco has Fox's Laser, so this means nothing for him as DLC.

 

[Tomlanji]

Hopefully the custom movesets can get me interested in playing Ness, I didn't like him in Brawl.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Luigi has Mario's Fireballs and Falco has Fox's Laser, so this means nothing for him as DLC.

So Surly that means that Lucas and Wolf could be returning anyway Ness' Gigantic Thunder attack is ridiculous

 

[AsteriskRocks]

It's a shame that not many of them are useable like rising PK Flash.

 

[Meccs]

So far, i prefer the standard Fire/Thunder/Magnet.

 

[Putuk]

I really hate how Lucas' Thunder and Freeze have become really sluggish compared to Brawl.
It's a shame, they'd be my go-to moves if they weren't so slow now.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Playing around with them, I really think the only one I would say should be changed (pretty much ever) is his Magnet. Against characters with things to absorb, Lucas' is just better as a whole for sure. Against people with nothing at all, the vacuum one can be an alright little tool but there's not too much use for any of them here. I don't see any real reason to ever use default over the others, though.