Ness Combo Discussion: Week 3: Nair Combos

[xoxokev]

I've decided that I've been going about this all wrong. This should be a thread for discussion. Each week I will update the OP with summaries of our weekly discussions. This week we will be going over utilt combos.

here's what i think about utilt combos...

utilt combos are easy to pull off at low % and it has many followups. utilt by itself has good priority and has little startup/ending lag

 

[Levitas]

Utilts do link into other moves well, but at higher percents, the opponent will have a really easy time escaping. Additionally, the fact that the opponent must be at a low percent in range of your utilt without already having hit you is a condition that is rarely met.

Use utilt to beat incoming nairs from characters with really dumb nairs, or to punish spot-dodges, and expect not to have many valid setups for utilt as a combo started due to the type of area it covers.

 

[Uffe]

U-tilt x2
U-tilt > Pivot Grab/Smash
U-tilt > Uair
U-tilt > Bair

There is most likely more, but I don't know of them at this time.

 

[Earthbound360]

Starting WITH the utilt a the beggining of each line...

Utilt
Utilt pivot PK Fire (wasnt it xoxokev mentioned this? I LOVE it!)
Ftilt (best angled upwards)
Grab

Nair
Bair
Fair
Fair ftilt

DAS Nair Nair

DAS Nair Fair
DAS Nair Fair Grab
DAS Nair Fair Ftilt
DAS Nair Fair Utilt
DAS Nair Fair Jab combo
DAS Nair Fair Usmash
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt flurry
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Usmash
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Fsmash (as Ref said, escapable, but still possible to land)
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Ftilt
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Utilt
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Utilt Nair

DAS Nair Uair Utilt
DAS Nair Uair Nair
DAS Nair Uair Fair
DAS Nair Uair Nair
DAS Nair Uair Uair
DAS Nair Uair Bair

Some escapable, some character dependant, some DI dependant, some very strict with percentage. But they could work. All you reall have to know is that Utilt goes right into aerials which can DAS. Any DAS combo you really want could work fo there. Anything ending wit fair goes into most ground moves. Anything ending with uair leads into more aerials or utilt.

Plus there are obviously many more possibilities. I'm just starting ideas.

 

[Eagleye893]

Sadly, pkflash can't be combo'd into with anything... It can always be escaped...

Eb360 got 'em all...

Maybe utilt>pkt at somewhat higher percents to allow it to start up, but some people will just dair you... Higher percents for the tailwhip into a possible pkt2 or mindgame them to jump and chase 'em down with the head...

Everything else isn't worth the risk...

 

[xoxokev]

Sadly, pkflash can't be combo'd into with anything... It can always be escaped...

Eb360 got 'em all...

Maybe utilt>pkt at somewhat higher percents to allow it to start up, but some people will just dair you... Higher percents for the tailwhip into a possible pkt2 or mindgame them to jump and chase 'em down with the head...

Everything else isn't worth the risk...

actually, i think utilt > pkt would work best at low percents... like, below 10%

 

[Eagleye893]

actually, i think utilt > pkt would work best at low percents... like, below 10%

I was thnking it would give time for the opponent to just nair you or something... They would hit you or cancel the pkt. Having it just high enough allows for you to get the head out or tail above you so that you have a better chance of hitting. It could work at lower percents, but it seems less likely, unless they airdodge (that wouldn't be the best choice for them at all).

 

[xoxokev]

does anyone have anything to add before we move on to the next discussion?

 

[Eagleye893]

Will we rank all combos at the end? Or should we order them as each are finished from best to worst?

Nothing really to contribute to utilt though... It's all there...

 

[Earthbound360]

Weeks up. New move plz.

 

[xoxokev]

Yes, I will update the OP soon. Sorry I was unable to update earlier, I had two midterms this week... Next discussion is...

DTILT combos

 

[Earthbound360]

Lol Im petty sure it's safe to say it comboes into just about all ground moves (minus bat and dsmash) and nair and fair when it trips.

 

[Eagleye893]

What about turnaround dsmash??? It could combo into that...

Dtilt >:
grab...
Ftilt
usmash
nair
bair?
Fair?
Dtilt
reverse dsmash?
Utilt (if close enough...)
[non-true]
bat
pkfire
........

 

[AvariceX]

d-tilt sweetspot > techchase > ****

 

[Man of Popsicle]

lol dtilt tech chasing.

 

[Earthbound360]

Lol I'd kill to c someone constantly tech chase wif dtilt someone and get a good 50%. That'd b hilarious.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I'm going to master this.
Cstick is going to = tilts.

 

[Earthbound360]

I officially love you... more now.

Have fun sweetspotting that dtilt tho lol.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Time for a full weekend of training mode and level three cpu's.

 

[CarVac]

Sweetspotting the dtilt?
Strangely enough, the last 4 times I've used dtilt (other than to refresh moves on destructible stage parts), I have sweetspotted it and fsmashed the tripped opporent. WIN.

I don't know how, and yes I know that upsmash is guaranteed, but fsmash is fun.

EDIT: Note that I did this against real people in real games.

 

[GimR]

on certain terrain d-tilt combos into itself because it actually lifts the opponent off the ground for a split second.

for example, on pokemon stadium when the forest section comes up. If you d-tilt someone on those little hills it will combo because of the weird property I mentioned above

 

[FuPoo]

d-tilt sweetspot > techchase > ****

fffff I wanna see this happen.

 

[PwNaG]

Don't know if it was mentioned yet, but an unspotted FFbair > pivot AAA is inescapable at low %s

 

[xoxokev]

Don't know if it was mentioned yet, but an unspotted FFbair > pivot AAA is inescapable at low %s

interesting... i will try this. btw, sorry everyone for not updating the OP, i've been busy with school. but i'm taking my last final today, so i should be a little more active these next few weeks... maybe... if you're lucky

 

[Earthbound360]

Btw, there are more comboes with te dtilt after the trip, I just havent felt like posting them. Stuff like dtilt trip>nair>uair>utilt or dtilt trip>fair>ftilt. A lot o stuff I said for utilt wrks with dtilt when it trips.

 

[xoxokev]

gotcha. thanks eb360.

also, is there anything else for dtilt, before we move on to the next discussion?

 

[xoxokev]

bump. new move! NAIR. what do you guys think? also, i already have these DAS nair combos posted by EB360, but anyone is free to elaborate more on any of them yay nair!

DAS Nair Nair

DAS Nair Fair
DAS Nair Fair Grab
DAS Nair Fair Ftilt
DAS Nair Fair Utilt
DAS Nair Fair Jab combo
DAS Nair Fair Usmash
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt flurry
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Usmash
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Fsmash (as Ref said, escapable, but still possible to land)
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Ftilt
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Utilt
DAS Nair Fair Dtilt trip Utilt Nair

DAS Nair Uair Utilt
DAS Nair Uair Nair
DAS Nair Uair Fair
DAS Nair Uair Nair
DAS Nair Uair Uair
DAS Nair Uair Bair

 

[Earthbound360]

I just realized I had DAS Nair Uair Nair twice on that list.

And maybe you should mention dtilt locks in combos. Standstill before around 100% on most characters, then you can walk after that.

 

[xoxokev]

dtilt locks... like, without a wall?

 

[Earthbound360]

Start dtlting someone at a low percent as fast as possible and they cant do anything but DI away from Ness. You cant chase them though since they get up quickly.

If they are at a higher percent, dtilt > walk (follow them) > dtilt repeat works like a jab lock.

 

[Eagleye893]

Ok, nair sourspotted can potentially lead into anything. It's very difficult to get anything bet an aerial out of it, but it's still possible.... Like sournair>utilt can work, along with ftilt in some cases and a few others....

Pkflash uncharged will always lead into either a fullhopped nair or sh nair, but it highly depends on their sdi and your ability to read the opponent.... Recommend sh uncharged pkflash.

Also, some characters are able to be footstooled directly into nair, while others need a dj to be hit... I don't know the specifics if this though....

 

[xoxokev]

Start dtlting someone at a low percent as fast as possible and they cant do anything but DI away from Ness. You cant chase them though since they get up quickly.

If they are at a higher percent, dtilt > walk (follow them) > dtilt repeat works like a jab lock.

i'm interested in this walking dtilt lock... they don't have to trip, do they? plz say no

 

[Earthbound360]

Nop. This confuses a whole lot of people, I might mke a video.

 

[xoxokev]

Nop. This confuses a whole lot of people, I might mke a video.

i think i kind of get it. i tried it last night in training mode cpu at ~100%... but is there enough "hit stun" for it to chain?

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeps. Even at lw ercents where the bounce animation is significantly shorter, a dtilt forces a get up which has invulnerability frames that end JUST as a bat's hitbox emerges.

 

[xoxokev]

plz make a vid. or send me .bin replay and i can record it on my capture card

 

[Earthbound360]

I'll do it myself. I'm most likely gonna wanna talk and explain things during it. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[orange/xd]

i love the DAS nair to nair at low %'s.

 

[Earthbound360]

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmZKA_OzS2o

Sorry, I uploaded this lastnight then went to a party while it a was uploading. Then when I got home, I wanted to give it to you, but my parents got mad at me for who knows why :\

 

[xoxokev]

thanks for the vid it was very helpful

i just thought of a sweet possible followup for the jab lock while watching your vid: dash past your opponent, pivot grab > bthrow

edit: i just tried it, you have to dtilt after the jab lock to force the get up animation for the pivot grab to work