Ness batters up! Ness Smash Switch Discussion

[Mysteltainn]

First things first; huge EarthBound/Mother fan. Definitely one of the brightest gems out there IMO.

Used to be pretty active on the Ness boards back on Smash 4, and I'm gearing up to see what he'll be like in Smash 5; that is to say, I have no worries whatsoever about mah boi getting into Smash 5 (I think he was ID'd in the flames anyway, no?).

As for his move-set, I agree with most people here that it's pretty good as it is, and I also agree that PSI Rockin' should find its way into becoming a Final Smash. Aside from that though, I think Ness is fine and could just use a few tweaks to help his deep mechanics flow a bit better. This was really expanded upon and cleaned up from Brawl -> Smash 4, but I'd like to see it evolve further in Smash 5. I played Ness more or less since the beginning, but Smash 4 was definitely the "cleanest" he has ever felt for me to use. Project M did a pretty good job as well, but Smash 4 did it best out of the official games.

 

[MysticKnives]

I agree there. Smash 4 Ness is the cleanest of all the Smash installments. I also find him to be a fun character to play as in every game too lol. Things I'd legit love is to have Ness have better mobility on the ground and faster speed in the air. I also want him to be able to wall jump as I just find it weird that he can't.

 

[DYED]

Hope they don't rework his grabs, I'm really bad at playing him but god if his grabs are satisfying.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Hope they don't rework his grabs, I'm really bad at playing him but god if his grabs are satisfying.

What about giving Ness more grab range?

 

[DYED]

What about giving Ness more grab range?

Uhm, I don't really know.
Like I said, I'm not really good with him, I don't really feel like giving my take on his stats and ranges.

 

[MysticKnives]

What about giving Ness more grab range?

But he's got short stubby arms to match his age as a youngster. I wouldn't mind a slight increase in range, but I'd also like better approach options for him.

 

[RileyXY1]

What about giving Ness more grab range?

That could be a massive improvement. That is, if Ness is even in the game.

 

[MysticKnives]

That could be a massive improvement. That is, if Ness is even in the game.

Honestly I don't have a doubt in my mind he's in the game. Could have been at risk getting cut in Melee and Brawl, but once it came to Smash 4, one of the Mother reps did get cut, and it wasn't Ness.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Since his d-throw is a good combo-starter and his b-throw has always been a great kill move, it's fine to keep his grab range the same so players won't spam grabs. Aside from restoring either of his old d-airs, I'd love to see PK Fire have less of the "Matrix" startup lag so one of the few long range attacks he has could have more use.

This applies more to the other character rather than Ness himself, but the absorption range moves like Rosa's Gravitational Pull and Villager's pocket is absurd. Give those a slight nerf and make it harder for Ness to be gimped off-stage. That was the biggest Achilles' heel stopping him from being anything more than decent.

Other than that and giving U-throw more of a purpose, I wouldn't change much. The current iteration of Ness is the best we've ever seen and I love maining him.

 

[Don'tNessWithMe]

It would make sense for him to receive this because many of the other call backs too other characters in some Smashers alts..

 

[Don'tNessWithMe]

Idk I mean, If there was hate around him for being too broken or overused it would be undesirable.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Idk I mean, If there was hate around him for being too broken or overused it would be undesirable.

If they used to complain about "PK Fire>d-throw>f-air x3" back in the day, they'll complain about anything before they learn to adapt to it. Ness has flaws elsewhere that stop him from being broken even if PK Thunder was given a little more breathing room or PK Fire has a couple fewer frames of start-up.

 

[Don'tNessWithMe]

Ness should get a Ninten skin, making a call back the the roots wouldn't hurt. I would like too see that

 

[MysticKnives]

If they used to complain about "PK Fire>d-throw>f-air x3" back in the day, they'll complain about anything before they learn to adapt to it. Ness has flaws elsewhere that stop him from being broken even if PK Thunder was given a little more breathing room or PK Fire has a couple fewer frames of start-up.

I'd definitely keep his range issue so I agree with you there. I also agree that I'd like it if his PK Fire had less start up lag. Would make it a more viable option. The thing I'd love to improve the most with Ness is his mobility and speed (not drastically, but I'd make him faster).

Also, I'm not sure why, but it feels weird to me that Ness can't wall-jump.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Also, I'm not sure why, but it feels weird to me that Ness can't wall-jump.

It seems mostly random who can and can't wall-jump. There's a theme of athletic characters being the only ones capable (nonsensical exception being Villager, the exact archetype of Ness/Lucas), and Ness doesn't really fit in with the Marios, Foxes, and Zero Suits of this list.

It would've made Saffron and Fourside much more playable though, let me tell you.

 

[PK Bash]

If I could make one change to Ness, it would be to his initial dash. I'd speed it up a little (reduce the IASA frames and the general length of the animation) and make it go just a tiny bit further (is this two changes? Well I'm gonna roll with it anyway).

At the moment in S4, Ness' dash to shield (how quickly he can put up shield from his initial dash animation) is something like 14 frames. This isn't bad per se, but we all know how Ness has historically struggled and continues to struggle against characters with significant horizontal range and disjoint (the classic example of course being Marth, but also in S4 Cloud, Corrin and others including some non-swordies come to mind). Dash to shield is the primary way for Ness to operate at all vs these characters, so a buff in this regard would help to ease this long-time weakness. If it were down to me I'd make it 11 frames at first and see how that works. I don't think this is particularly unreasonable, considering Sheik and Corrin have a dash to shield of 8 (I think).
I'd like to see the initial dash go just a little bit further again to help him out with horizontal range. It would give slightly more effective range to his dash attack out of an initial dash (useful when whiff punishing swordies) and let him go a little bit deeper with his dash to shield approaches as well.

I think these changes would help him out somewhat with some of his typical weaknesses and frequently poor matchups without breaking him nor reducing him to one dominant strategy any more than he already is, whilst also offering him an improved neutral game to apply more generally. There are other changes I'd like to see, but adjustments to his initial dash is the big one for me.

 

[RileyXY1]

Ness should get a Ninten skin, making a call back the the roots wouldn't hurt. I would like too see that

Ninten has a lot of attacks that Ness can't use. It would make much more sense if Ninten was a separate fighter.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Honestly I don't have a doubt in my mind he's in the game. Could have been at risk getting cut in Melee and Brawl, but once it came to Smash 4, one of the Mother reps did get cut, and it wasn't Ness.

Unless if Sakurai wasn't involved with a Smash Bros. game in the future and someone else is in charge of development in the series. If they have no clue on the historical significance of the MOTHER series then he has a chance of being removed unless if Nintendo ensured they would never remove the original 12 like Ness.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Unless if Sakurai wasn't involved with a Smash Bros. game in the future and someone else is in charge of development in the series. If they have no clue on the historical significance of the MOTHER series then he has a chance of being removed unless if Nintendo ensured they would never remove the original 12 like Ness.

Sakurai wouldn't let the series fall into just anybody's hands. Before he would step down, he would do what he could to ensure that his successor is somebody he could trust to avoid making radical shake-ups that would upset the fanbase. He's the type of person that would continue to work even into his elderly years if nobody ideal was available.

 

[MysticKnives]

Unless if Sakurai wasn't involved with a Smash Bros. game in the future and someone else is in charge of development in the series. If they have no clue on the historical significance of the MOTHER series then he has a chance of being removed unless if Nintendo ensured they would never remove the original 12 like Ness.

This is true. Though I can't really speak to that since we don't have a new director yet. But I guess it would be more accurate to say that as long as Sakurai's at the helm, I don't see Ness getting cut.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

Ness Is back Yay!

 

[Mysteltainn]

Yep, our boy is back! Of course, I don't think this surprised anyone here, but it's always good to see him. I like how they have incorporated Paula and Poo into his Final Smash. It leaves PSI Rockin' dead in the water, but it's a nice touch nonetheless; same goes for Lucas and his companions.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

Yes Look at the website
https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/10.html
And the render.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

God, I was so happy when I saw all those Mother stages and the entire Chosen Four together in glorious HD. Maybe the series is done and won't get any more releases, but at least we can still have this.

 

[StarDustStorm]

Did you notice Ness' artwork pose is similar to that faked leaked Ness Pose for Sm4sh? Sadly no fuzzy pickles for Ultimate's Ness.

From EarthBound Central

 

[MysticKnives]

I love that Ness is not only a starter for the Demo, but he very well might be on the box art too. I like that he uses a one-handed PK Fire now.

 

[FamicomDisk]

I love that Ness is not only a starter for the Demo, but he very well might be on the box art too. I like that he uses a one-handed PK Fire now.

He is!

 

[MysticKnives]

He is!

Seeing Ness on the cover of a box art in 2018 is very pleasing.


Also, did you guys know his Uair got changed? His PK Fire also has the visual effect that it has from Earthbound.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Seeing Ness on the cover of a box art in 2018 is very pleasing.


Also, did you guys know his Uair got changed? His PK Fire also has the visual effect that it has from Earthbound.

They're giving the boys really cool visual fanservice touches. Lucas' PSI Magnet also has an effect that resembles Mother 3's PSI Shield. I didn't know about the u-air though. Did you see that during the invitational?

 

[MysticKnives]

They're giving the boys really cool visual fanservice touches. Lucas' PSI Magnet also has an effect that resembles Mother 3's PSI Shield. I didn't know about the u-air though. Did you see that during the invitational?

Yeah. It was during one of the casual free for all matches. It's not a headbutt anymore. It looks similar to Peach's Uair. It was hard to catch since it was during the motion and chaos of the game. Also don't know if it's true or not, but it's possible the speed of PK Thunder increased a bit.

I love the visual fanservice that Ness and Lucas have received. It's just so pleasing to see how much a small but very loved series gets.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Yeah. It was during one of the casual free for all matches. It's not a headbutt anymore. It looks similar to Peach's Uair. It was hard to catch since it was during the motion and chaos of the game. Also don't know if it's true or not, but it's possible the speed of PK Thunder increased a bit.

I love the visual fanservice that Ness and Lucas have received. It's just so pleasing to see how much a small but very loved series gets.

Interesting change. Don't really see the need for it when his normal u-air is probably stronger, but it's probably to give Ness more psychic moves for his normals even if they end up being worse like his d-air.

It didn't seem like it to me, but the PK Thunder speed increase is amazing if true. I'd been wanting that buff to make his recovery less vulnerable against Rosa and Villager shenanigans. I'd hoped that PK Fire might get a similar speed buff but the Matrix start-up is still there.

Obviously no complaints about fanservice because I got to see four Mother stages in HD and four other Mother characters in 3D and HD. That sounds like a good day to me.

 

[FamicomDisk]

Yeah, Ness got a couple changes - his Thunder now has an arrow that indicates the direction you’ll go right before you get hit by it, so you can aim!

I noticed the Up-Air too, but then I went back and re-watched the match and it seemed like he was still doing the headbutt. Hopefully we see for sure as people continue to play at E3!

 

[MysticKnives]

Interesting change. Don't really see the need for it when his normal u-air is probably stronger, but it's probably to give Ness more psychic moves for his normals even if they end up being worse like his d-air.

It didn't seem like it to me, but the PK Thunder speed increase is amazing if true. I'd been wanting that buff to make his recovery less vulnerable against Rosa and Villager shenanigans. I'd hoped that PK Fire might get a similar speed buff but the Matrix start-up is still there.

Obviously no complaints about fanservice because I got to see four Mother stages in HD and four other Mother characters in 3D and HD. That sounds like a good day to me.

You already knew the matrix startup for PK Fire was still gonna be there lol.

Love Onett, but getting Fourside and especially Magicant in HD is gonna be so good.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

paula and Poo help Ness to assist in Pk starstorm

 

[MysticKnives]

Watching the treehouse just confirms that Ness' Uair has changed.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

yeah
i used Ness´s Artwork from smash bros Ultimate To match with The Smash bros Ultimate CHaracters REVEAL.

 

[Deleted member 396530]

owner of the post Ness is back.

 

[MysticKnives]

It's possible that even PK Flash is even a little faster lol. If so, even more lulzy that PK Fire isn't really any faster. Other things some are saying from just talking with some random people over the internet who has tried the game (I could tell PK Fire was slower from one of the gameplay vids showing Ness I saw not sure about the others):

- PK Fire has more startup lag (wasn't really too viable of a move anyway but I wish it was faster)
- Dair has reduced lag (end I think)
- Nair has a bit more range
- PSI Magnet is larger and has a similar hitbox to Lucas'.

 

[PSIguy89]

I’m eager to see some good quality direct feed footage of Ness!! He looks to be as good as ever boys!!!

 

[MysticKnives]

I’m eager to see some good quality direct feed footage of Ness!! He looks to be as good as ever boys!!!

He seems about on par with how he was in Smash 4. I'm curious to see if his Uair is better or worse than his old one.

Based on this vid:

Ness seems to have a decent Uair that can kill.


Then you get to this video:

If it doesn't have the appropriate timing on it, the match starts to get focus at about 3:49:50. In this match between Ness and Pit, PK Flash does seem faster, and his Up Smash killed Pit when Pit was at 104%,