Nerfs that really bothered ya

[Zerp]

, , and's latest nerfs.

Weight: 85 -> 84
Vanish:Disappearance Hitbox KBG: 104 -> 102
Hitbox Size: 14 -> 13

Weight: 78 -> 77

Weight: 95 -> 94


Look, I'm not upset they didn't get mega ultra nerfs, but, Ninty, if your going to nerf something, please do it right and not only half-try to do it. It really shouldn't annoy me, but I'd rather they either get 0 nerfs, or some actual meaningful nerfs, not this weeny half way stuff, make up your mind Nintendo, either actually nerf them, or don't!

It's like they "nerfed" them just to check off a box, this doesn't show any actual care for balance or anything, just a "Eh, we know this exists, here's a nerf kiddo". I'm not feeling any effort whatsoever.

 

[L9999]

At this point I really question what the hell is the balance team thinking. If they were going to nerf the top tiers that way they shouldn't nerf them at all. Those changes amount to nothing. Meanwhile, they nerfed a buff they gave to a trash tier character. If they actually used their time and brain correctly, the following would be good by now. .

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

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Charizard has been getting buffs through almost every patch; but when you need to compete with characters like just to be viable, it's harder to accomplish mid-tier for most heavy characters.

 

[itsmeMOB]

Now don't tell me you can't deal with her moves. They may be older videos but they're just about the same for ZSS pre-nerf.

 

[Gattsu]

Any nerf to sonic that wasn't his back throw
and d3 getting nerfed before the wii u version came out

 

[joltekz]

at least they didn't nerf greninja

 

[wingedarcher7]

getting hit nearly every patch kind of hurt. His spin dash, back throw, forward smash..poor guy already has trouble getting those kills from time to time.

 

[MarioMeteor]

At this point I really question what the hell is the balance team thinking. If they were going to nerf the top tiers that way they shouldn't nerf them at all. Those changes amount to nothing. Meanwhile, they nerfed a buff they gave to a trash tier character. If they actually used their time and brain correctly, the following would be good by now. .

Marth is kinda sorta almost good.

 

[FallenHero]

At this point I really question what the hell is the balance team thinking. If they were going to nerf the top tiers that way they shouldn't nerf them at all. Those changes amount to nothing. Meanwhile, they nerfed a buff they gave to a trash tier character. If they actually used their time and brain correctly, the following would be good by now. .

Is Lucas still considered a bad character at this point though? I don't remember his exact placement on tier list, but I feel like he has the potential to be a high tier.

 

[wingedarcher7]

Is Lucas still considered a bad character at this point though? I don't remember his exact placement on tier list, but I feel like he has the potential to be a high tier.

Lucas was low tier on the recent tier list from the Back Room. I mean, he didn't get any changes from 1.1.3 to 1.1.4, so his placement might not change unless someone is displaying a reason during matches to move him up.

 

[LancerStaff]

None of them, honestly. They're all pretty reasonable.

 

[Eugene Wang]

None of them, honestly. They're all pretty reasonable.

I will never understand why King Dedede ever deserved a nerf.

 

[LancerStaff]

I will never understand why King Dedede ever deserved a nerf.

Gordos they probably realized would get through certain moves when stale, and they didn't want them to go through those moves.

Everything else is more for FFA balancing then anything else from what I remember.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I almost forgot, the nerf in 1.04 that made Samus' forward tilt suck. Like, did they really need to make that character worse?

 

[Green L]

For me it was luigi's nerfs to down throw and cyclone. Those were the things that kept luigi a threat and a solid character.
I don't think luigi is trash but he's a second rate mario now. Sakurai had no problem giving him the nerf bat but not to Sheik?
Developer: Players are complaining about luigi!
Sakurai: Pass me the nerf hammer!
Developer: Players are complaining about Sheik! I'll get the nerf hammer!
Sakurai:Nah, I'll give her a love tap instead

 

[Xandercosm]

You say that like she can't do that anymore.

Good point.

 

[the_muffin]

Bowser's shell-shock nerf is the only one that really upset me. None of the other characters I play have any meaningful nerfs.

I do miss d-smash tho...

 

[Diddy Kong]

never getting a single buff even once is a nerf in itself
I mean c'mon
What did Dedede ever do to get absolutely nothing but nerfs
He even got a nerf where YOU CAN ESCAPE HIS FINAL SMASH DURING THE HITS AND AVOID THE BOMB ENTIRELY
GIVE THAT MAN A BUFF

What did Dedede do?

I also still find it bothersome how much KO Power they took from Diddy's aerials after the Hoo-Hah nerf. F Air and Side B really didn't need those kind of nerfs, especially since they also made his Smashes weaker that patch. I still prefer U Air version 2.0, not the current one, where it was at the very least, still a great combo / damage wrecking move, but they basically made U Air one of the weaker aerials in the game whereas it used to be the greatest...

 

[Arrei]

Bowser still CAN get Uthrow Uair kills, it's just harder, with ranges more comparable to the Ding Dong. And it's still free on fast-fallers.

As an Ike main, what bothered me was a nerf Ike took from Brawl to Sm4sh. Ike's buffs since then have been lovely, but this one continues to perplex me. Dair used to have a short lingering hitbox, and they took it away... while keeping the animation the exact same so Ike is stuck in the move for just as long despite having the hitbox out on frame... 16 and finished two frames later? Why would you even?

 

[MarioMeteor]

For me it was luigi's nerfs to down throw and cyclone. Those were the things that kept luigi a threat and a solid character.
I don't think luigi is trash but he's a second rate mario now. Sakurai had no problem giving him the nerf bat but not to Sheik?
Developer: Players are complaining about luigi!
Sakurai: Pass me the nerf hammer!
Developer: Players are complaining about Sheik! I'll get the nerf hammer!
Sakurai:Nah, I'll give her a love tap instead

Developer 2: Sir, people are saying that Zelda is one of the worst characters in the game. Should we buff her?
Sakurai: Yes, buff her up tilt by one percent.

 

[Scurry059]

it's all about weegee getting nerfed

 

[W.A.C.]

Patches pretty much killed my love for this game thanks to how much they over nerfed both Yoshi and Diddy Kong. Frame data nerfs should be off limits for every character. :| Characters have way too much ****ing lag in this game compared to past entries. It's disgusting.

 

[iVoltage]

I just wish that they didn't take greninja out back and break his arms and legs, now all of his hitboxes miss. He was the reason I got the game, and on the 3ds version I was so hype it was just silly for a young adult. I tried him out for a few months but it just wasn't working out, now he has to work so hard for little reward.

 

[JAZZ_]

The nerf that eliminated Samus' Missile ledge cancel. Just why nerf a character thats consistently been bottom of the barrel of every tier list?

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Captain Falcon's Uair and Bair nerfs...RIP Probably would've been a top 10 character if he still got the kill confirm with uair and extra damage with bair. I don't even understand why he got the nerfs.

 

[FallenHero]

Captain Falcon's Uair and Bair nerfs...RIP Probably would've been a top 10 character if he still got the kill confirm with uair and extra damage with bair. I don't even understand why he got the nerfs.

Am I the only person who thinks the "nerf" to Falcon's up air was a buff? All it did was make it easier to continue a combo after up air.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Captain Falcon's Uair and Bair nerfs...RIP Probably would've been a top 10 character if he still got the kill confirm with uair and extra damage with bair. I don't even understand why he got the nerfs.

Frankly, the up air was kind of ridiculous. It's not like Falcon has a shortage of kill moves.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Dr. Mario in patch 1.04

• Down aerial's hit rate decreased: 7 → 5.
• Down aerial deals 1.456% less damage: 10.976% → 9.52%.

This always bugged me.
In my opinion the move is hard to land, so why give less reward off of it?

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Am I the only person who thinks the "nerf" to Falcon's up air was a buff? All it did was make it easier to continue a combo after up air.

He used to kill with that move at like 110%. When you could true combo that out of dthrow, or just read an airdodge with uair, he was ridiculously good.

Frankly, the up air was kind of ridiculous. It's not like Falcon has a shortage of kill moves.

And yet it was his only real kill set-up. You could argue that he has falling uair to knee but that stops around 80%. If you have rage arguably sooner. Otherwise getting a kill isn't the easiest. No it's not hard, but it's harder than a lot of people think. At higher level play anyways. I don't think it should've been killing as soon as it was, but completely taking away it's kill power was a bit over kill.

 

[FallenHero]

And yet it was his only real kill set-up.

Wat. Falcon has a lot of kill setups that rely on reads and a few that are guaranteed at certain percents like falling up air > knee. Falcon has many ways to kill before 110%, I can't even imagine that many situations where a good Falcon will have an opponent live up to 110%. If anything, the change to his up air only gave him more kill setups/improved his kill setups.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

Wat. Falcon has a lot of kill setups that rely on reads and a few that are guaranteed at certain percents like falling up air > knee. Falcon has many ways to kill before 110%, I can't even imagine that many situations where a good Falcon will have an opponent live up to 110%. If anything, the change to his up air only gave him more kill setups/improved his kill setups.

I guess I worded that poorly, I meant kill confirm as in something that true comboes into a kill move. Yes he can kill before 110%, I'm not arguing with that. But Sheik for example has dthrow > uair, Fox has weak nair > usmash, utilt > uair, dair > usmash, Ryu has utilt/dtilt/nair > TRSK. The list goes on and on. Falcon used to have dthrow > uair... I hardly see how the change to uair would give him more kill confirms. I'm not saying that he is hard to kill with, but that was such a good option at the time that losing it was a little saddening.

 

[TheArcfire]

Whats the point of nerfing bowsers upthrow after buffing it? It was perfectly fine.
Once again why nerf a move that was completely balanced

 

[Jiggswiggs]

Yes every nerf ever because it sucks they should make other characters better instead too be as good as the others so people don't need too abandoned their main like I did with luigi
PS: R.I.P weegee

 

[FooltheFlames]

In the earlier patches, I think maybe before even the first patch, you could do tilt/dash attacks while still holding items- removing this mechanic hurt characters like, ,,,&, who used to have some really nice follow ups

 

[randomguy1235]

Captain Falcon's Uair and Bair nerfs...RIP Probably would've been a top 10 character if he still got the kill confirm with uair and extra damage with bair. I don't even understand why he got the nerfs.

He's still A tier and 14 damage with Bair is more than enough considering it auto cancels and has minimal ending lag. Also, the "nerf" to Uair was an indirect buff by allowing you to combo to oblivion.

 

[MacSmitty]

Having that unnecessary long end lag after landing with Extreme Speed.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm honestly surprised that people were bummed out by the Luigi down throw nerf, especially when pre-patch Luigi was one of the most hated things about competitive Smash 4.

If I had to be honest though, yes... that down throw nerf really bothered me. I understand the frustration from it, since he can get a throw in and get 60% on a character. When I look at other things, like ZSS being able to kill characters at 30% with a single down throw to uair to up B combo, it's a shame that this happened to Luigi.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'm honestly surprised that people were bummed out by the Luigi down throw nerf, especially when pre-patch Luigi was one of the most hated things about competitive Smash 4.

If I had to be honest though, yes... that down throw nerf really bothered me. I understand the frustration from it, since he can get a throw in and get 60% on a character. When I look at other things, like ZSS being able to kill characters at 30% with a single down throw to uair to up B combo, it's a shame that this happened to Luigi.

There are definitely things that could've been done to circumvent that without ruining Luigi. I would've been fine with just nerfing the Cyclone and keeping Luigi's combo game intact, but since they nerfed his down throw too, what was the point of messing with the Cyclone? It's not like it had much offensive use other than from a down throw or offstage.

 

[AuraWielder]

I remember being really interested in Greninja after watching his trailer and the 3DS version first came out.
And then we all know what happened to Greninja. I loved playing around with him prior to his infamous nerfing, but after it... he really wasn't fun anymore. Even though he got some buffs, it wasn't enough to make me pick up the ninja frog again. I don't even touch him these days.
And I'm also one of those people who absolutely loved Marth in Melee and Brawl... and absolutely hate how he plays in Smash 4. The biggest reason why I loved playing him, his range and fun combos, were pretty much gone. Even after his buffs, I can't let go of his loss of range.
But when Roy came out as DLC, I surprisingly loved playing as him (and found him to be a lot more fun/better than SSB4 Marth), so there's one plus.
I'm grateful that my two major mains now, Ness and Peach, haven't been significantly nerfed in any way.

 

[Green L]

I'm honestly surprised that people were bummed out by the Luigi down throw nerf, especially when pre-patch Luigi was one of the most hated things about competitive Smash 4.

You mean they hated a character with a balance of strengths and weaknesses and..."gasp!"... actual combos? Or do you mean pre patch luigi relying of grabs for combos despite his easily exploitable flaws to counter his grab game? I can think of characters even more shallow. *Cough* donkey kong *Cough* BOWSER *cough*

There are definitely things that could've been done to circumvent that without ruining Luigi. I would've been fine with just nerfing the Cyclone and keeping Luigi's combo game intact, but since they nerfed his down throw too, what was the point of messing with the Cyclone? It's not like it had much offensive use other than from a down throw or offstage.

I disagree with the cyclone nerf. They could have weakened luigi by toning down luigi's down smash by lowering knockback, removing the invincibility, and more endlag. Maybe add more landing lag to his super jump punch too