Nerfed into the trash can

[BltzZ]

Wow, I never thought to use the phantasm like that at 0:20.
That's a great option! Especially because I hate trying to get back on stage from the ledge.

Yeah dude glad I provided insight. I always drop down jump phantasm much better option. I use phantasm sometimes to close the gap and get some hits in. I condition my opponents to lasers in the beginning of matches so usually they'll roll back so I short hop phantasm to them and throw jabs out or even up tilts

 

[Antonykun]

I really don't like how many different threads there are crying about how Falco is trash now. Falco is by no stretch of the imagination a trash character. He is just radically different from Melee or Brawl, even more than how Melee Falco was changed to Brawl Falco. He has a footsie game that few characters can claim and his recovery is now not Little Mac levels of bad. And thats on top of his great combo game. While will say i don't think Falco is as strong as say Diddy right now, I really believe that people will stop thinking he's awful once they stop seeing him as Melee/Brawl Falco and start seeing him as his own entity.

 

[Leg]

Wow, I never thought to use the phantasm like that at 0:20.
That's a great option! Especially because I hate trying to get back on stage from the ledge.

You sir, obviously haven't played Brawl.

If that blows your mind, you can also try running off the ledge and then immediately phantasm onto the stage. If your opponent was in range they may pop into the air for free followups C;

But yeah, be careful when recovering with Phantasm from ledge because a smart opponent will bait it (Horrible, horrible, Snake Ftilt punishes come to mind).

Falco lost alot of his options but i still use him solid. Just playing smart not throwing out wild moves relentlessly chasing people off the edge with fair harassing recoveries. I space alot with reflector to cause trips which lead to either re grabs or forwards smashes when they roll forward.

I just love harassing people with Fair lol.

http://youtu.be/mkJg7BAQlhs?list=UUzsJLyYOl-6idSCmvjs1K4w

Sweet match, BltzZ. You definitely showed how to abuse Fair, and it seemed like Lucina couldn't handle it, lol. I'll have to try that out.

Something I noticed is nearly every time you knocked lucina in the air she DI'd towards you for a follow up attack. With opponents like that, I like to charge a F-smash. A good moment for it would of been 1:36, as it would have saved you the damage, and (possibly) earned you a kill. And even if they see it coming, they're probably too close to avoid it (that Fsmash range <3), or you'll hit the end lag of their airdodge.

Just another thing I've picked up from Brawl that still works here. I think it would fit your rather observant playstyle.

 

[BltzZ]

You sir, obviously haven't played Brawl.

If that blows your mind, you can also try running off the ledge and then immediately phantasm onto the stage. If your opponent was in range they may pop into the air for free followups C;

But yeah, be careful when recovering with Phantasm from ledge because a smart opponent will bait it (Horrible, horrible, Snake Ftilt punishes come to mind).



Sweet match, BltzZ. You definitely showed how to abuse Fair, and it seemed like Lucina couldn't handle it, lol. I'll have to try that out.

Something I noticed is nearly every time you knocked lucina in the air she DI'd towards you for a follow up attack. With opponents like that, I like to charge a F-smash. A good moment for it would of been 1:36, as it would have saved you the damage, and (possibly) earned you a kill. And even if they see it coming, they're probably too close to avoid it (that Fsmash range <3), or you'll hit the end lag of their airdodge.

Just another thing I've picked up from Brawl that still works here. I think it would fit your rather observant playstyle.

Lol Thanks! Yeah I always see things I should've done when I rewatch haha. I have wayyyyy more falco videos coming out I just got the elgato hd60 so well be enjoying 1080 60fps falco soon lots of replays saved

 

[NotAnAdmin]

You sir, obviously haven't played Brawl.

If that blows your mind, you can also try running off the ledge and then immediately phantasm onto the stage. If your opponent was in range they may pop into the air for free followups C;

But yeah, be careful when recovering with Phantasm from ledge because a smart opponent will bait it (Horrible, horrible, Snake Ftilt punishes come to mind).



Sweet match, BltzZ. You definitely showed how to abuse Fair, and it seemed like Lucina couldn't handle it, lol. I'll have to try that out.

Something I noticed is nearly every time you knocked lucina in the air she DI'd towards you for a follow up attack. With opponents like that, I like to charge a F-smash. A good moment for it would of been 1:36, as it would have saved you the damage, and (possibly) earned you a kill. And even if they see it coming, they're probably too close to avoid it (that Fsmash range <3), or you'll hit the end lag of their airdodge.

Just another thing I've picked up from Brawl that still works here. I think it would fit your rather observant playstyle.

I played Brawl but only casually, when I got into the competitive smash scene it started with Melee and a bit of PM, I guess that shows I still have much more to learn.

 

[Kamikazu]

Hi guys,

I really do think Falco is alright.
He has many pluses in SSB4 (Kills from Up-throw B-throw, Aerials are stronger etc),
That make up for the changes to his 'feel'.

I do feel you guys. Though I never learned Falco in such detail that I now suffer the pains of having that taken away, I did love his feel in melee first then in Brawl and was aware of what he could be.

Now I feel he is a more balanced and fair character which emphasizes the use of thought in unison with his kit to dish out serious punishment.

Having said that the scope for combo is still here, the surface having just been scratched as to what he can achieve.

Like a True Falcon eyeballing his prey. "I am really feeling it".

 

[Goldschuss]

Okay guys I may have been a bit exaggerating when I said, he belong's in a trash can.
Yea I realize he is different from brawl and you need to play him differently.

But really, it doesn't excuse much. He still isn't fluent, his delays are too high to lock down someone safely and has troubles hitting any smash attack which is not the d-smash.
It's like as if I would be going to a restaurant and order a steak and they give me a hamburger instead. Yea of course, the hamburger is not bad but that's not what I wanted. Why would I care for the hamburger when i wanted a steak in the first place?

 

[Zionaze]

atleast they didnt serve you trash :V

 

[Leg]

I also sympathize with Goldschuss. Though I only mained Falco in Brawl, I could at least appreciate Falco in Melee and PM. I understood his tools (lasers and spike), and could rely on him to have them. This game certainly has the worst rendition of him; They pretty much took away what made Falco the character we knew and loved.

I won't say he's fair; our opponents just dont have to worry about lasers or spike anymore. Which makes us complain because now he feels significantly less... Falco.

In fact, he almost feels like Wolf >_>

 

[Zionaze]

i guess thats why i love falco so much in smash 4. i used to main wolf in brawl :V b-air and all

 

[Legend Vermillion]

You sir, obviously haven't played Brawl.

If that blows your mind, you can also try running off the ledge and then immediately phantasm onto the stage. If your opponent was in range they may pop into the air for free followups C;

But yeah, be careful when recovering with Phantasm from ledge because a smart opponent will bait it (Horrible, horrible, Snake Ftilt punishes come to mind).

I recommend using walljump before the phantasm to make it more unpredictable.

Oh ... and man, dont make me remember Snake´s FTilt haha!

Okay guys I may have been a bit exaggerating when I said, he belong's in a trash can.
Yea I realize he is different from brawl and you need to play him differently.

But really, it doesn't excuse much. He still isn't fluent, his delays are too high to lock down someone safely and has troubles hitting any smash attack which is not the d-smash.
It's like as if I would be going to a restaurant and order a steak and they give me a hamburger instead. Yea of course, the hamburger is not bad but that's not what I wanted. Why would I care for the hamburger when i wanted a steak in the first place?

I partially agree with this. I want to find tricks and stuff for Falco and make him a better character but we cant deny facts like horrible walking speed, huge landing lags and stuff :/

In fact, he almost feels like Wolf >_>

Wolf laser was useful at least /joke xDDD

 

[Bobert]

In fact, he almost feels like Wolf >_>

He actually does feel like a worse version of Wolf except for the recovery. Well to me at least.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

He actually does feel like a worse version of Wolf except for the recovery. Well to me at least.

You have the same thought about the character than me. I played Wolf as a secondary character in Brawl and I feel that Wolf was a little better character in terms of moveset.

 

[Ffamran]

You have the same thought about the character than me. I played Wolf as a secondary character in Brawl and I feel that Wolf was a little better character in terms of moveset.

A lot of Wolf's moves, well, moved him in contrast to Falco. Jab and Side Smash being notorious for Wolf moving in closer. Down Smash has more range than Falco's, Up Smash seems to have a better hit box since it's like Wolf's body rather than Falco's legs, and Ftilt has much better range and is punishing on shields and spot dodges.

Wolf's ground speed is kinda moot on the ground since he has range, speed, and "moving" attacks while Falco is reliant on spacing and positioning. Still, Falco has a better recovery, dash speed, and jump height which I guess makes Falco have a better air game. Eh...

 

[Zionaze]

i forgot who it was but there was a super speedy wolf that dominated because of his crazy airspeed

 

[Bobert]

You have the same thought about the character than me. I played Wolf as a secondary character in Brawl and I feel that Wolf was a little better character in terms of moveset.

Wolf in general just has better hitboxes, range and projectile than Sm4sh Falco. He also has an easier time landing KOs.

 

[Ffamran]

Wolf in general just has better hitboxes, range and projectile than Sm4sh Falco. He also has an easier time landing KOs.

Like I said before, it's because Wolf's attacks actually move him forward. Falco has like two attacks that do that they "inch" or "centimeter" their way. The thing with Falco is that he's got good, strong attacks, but suffers from being unable to actually hit them reliably like Wolf. Fox in contrast has fast attacks that he can constantly chain over and over, but his issue are kill moves. I don't really know about Fox, but I think he only has Up Smash, Uair, Bair, Fair, Side Smash, and maybe Down Smash as kill moves in SSB4. Falco on the other hand has Utilt, Up Smash, Uair, Fair, Bair, Side Smash, Down Smash, Dtilt, and even B-throw, U-throw, Falco Phantasm - his most reliable meteor - and Dair - his unreliable meteor. That's 12 to Fox's 6! Amazing? No, since if Falco can't land them, it's freaking worthless and sometimes if he lands them, he might hit them too hard early on and they're barely pass the blast line meaning characters like Pit can just (literally) fly back. At least Fox can quickly get in and Up Smash someone.

Wolf is like a balance where although he's slow, he has fast, moving, or well-ranged moves. That means Wolf can reliably chain and kill. Ironic since he's the heavyweight compared to Fox and Falco, but in a way, it makes him much more unique. Fox and Falco are like Ryu and Ken; Wolf is more like Gouken or Akuma or for a more drastic difference: if Fox is Kyo Kusanagi, Falco is Iori Yagami (with flames), and Wolf is Iori (without flames).

Why two Iori's? For KoF players, then they're aware that Kyo and Iori began as clones, but later on became semi-clones. They were less clone-y than Ryu and Ken. Kyo's fighting style was based on Kenpo; Fox's fighting style is "grounded". Iori uses a fictional martial arts that mimics using claws - his claws are his hands; Falco's uses his arms more and he is kind of more "out there" and less "grounded" or less "realistic". Now, in XII, Iori loses his flames meaning he fights entirely with martial arts and man, is he a savage, but awesome fighter who is slow, but if he gets in, he starts (literally) tearing -bleep- up; that's Wolf.

Anyway, Falco is really feels like a mishmash of characters. I think if he was a bit faster either through faster attacks or movement speed, he'd feel much more fluid. As of now, he's like Ganondorf, but without reach and Ganondorf's raw power. At least Falco can recover reliably and combo more than Ganondorf... Oh, and Up Smash is kind of annoying at times. When it hits: awesome; when it doesn't: WTF?! His foot freaking went through the damned... ARGH!!!

Still, he's not bad, but he's not amazing. Thankfully this game can be patched and was fairly balanced out of the box compared to Brawl. We never ever want to see another Brawl Ganondorf again.

 

[SaturnFrost]

i forgot who it was but there was a super speedy wolf that dominated because of his crazy airspeed

Chillin Dude?

 

[Bobert]

Like I said before, it's because Wolf's attacks actually move him forward. Falco has like two attacks that do that they "inch" or "centimeter" their way. The thing with Falco is that he's got good, strong attacks, but suffers from being unable to actually hit them reliably like Wolf. Fox in contrast has fast attacks that he can constantly chain over and over, but his issue are kill moves. I don't really know about Fox, but I think he only has Up Smash, Uair, Bair, Fair, Side Smash, and maybe Down Smash as kill moves in SSB4. Falco on the other hand has Utilt, Up Smash, Uair, Fair, Bair, Side Smash, Down Smash, Dtilt, and even B-throw, U-throw, Falco Phantasm - his most reliable meteor - and Dair - his unreliable meteor. That's 12 to Fox's 6! Amazing? No, since if Falco can't land them, it's freaking worthless and sometimes if he lands them, he might hit them too hard early on and they're barely pass the blast line meaning characters like Pit can just (literally) fly back. At least Fox can quickly get in and Up Smash someone.

Wolf is like a balance where although he's slow, he has fast, moving, or well-ranged moves. That means Wolf can reliably chain and kill. Ironic since he's the heavyweight compared to Fox and Falco, but in a way, it makes him much more unique. Fox and Falco are like Ryu and Ken; Wolf is more like Gouken or Akuma or for a more drastic difference: if Fox is Kyo Kusanagi, Falco is Iori Yagami (with flames), and Wolf is Iori (without flames).

Why two Iori's? For KoF players, then they're aware that Kyo and Iori began as clones, but later on became semi-clones. They were less clone-y than Ryu and Ken. Kyo's fighting style was based on Kenpo; Fox's fighting style is "grounded". Iori uses a fictional martial arts that mimics using claws - his claws are his hands; Falco's uses his arms more and he is kind of more "out there" and less "grounded" or less "realistic". Now, in XII, Iori loses his flames meaning he fights entirely with martial arts and man, is he a savage, but awesome fighter who is slow, but if he gets in, he starts (literally) tearing -bleep- up; that's Wolf.

Anyway, Falco is really feels like a mishmash of characters. I think if he was a bit faster either through faster attacks or movement speed, he'd feel much more fluid. As of now, he's like Ganondorf, but without reach and Ganondorf's raw power. At least Falco can recover reliably and combo more than Ganondorf... Oh, and Up Smash is kind of annoying at times. When it hits: awesome; when it doesn't: WTF?! His foot freaking went through the damned... ARGH!!!

Still, he's not bad, but he's not amazing. Thankfully this game can be patched and was fairly balanced out of the box compared to Brawl. We never ever want to see another Brawl Ganondorf again.

I agree with all of this and I couldn't have said it better myself. If they do buff Falco in the future, I would like it if they at least increased his movement speed and increased the damage on his blaster to 5 instead of 3 to make up for the horrid end lag.

 

[Ffamran]

Chillin Dude?

This guy?

 

[Zionaze]

well project M makes everyone fast so not chillindood but I was talking about Izaw's wolf in Brawl

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPN9BpuFMxQ

 

[Legend Vermillion]

I think you are talking about Seagull´s Wolf in Brawl.

 

[Ffamran]

I think you are talking about Seagull´s Wolf in Brawl.

You're making me miss Wolf even more.

 

[Zionaze]

nop izaw's wolf so fast so furious

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

You're making me miss Wolf even more.

I think we all need Wolf back, so we can get a bad*** villain/antihero back, and so Falco can get back in shape again chasing Wolf, after he steals his bread.

 

[Knife8193]

Like others have said, Falco is not a shell of his former self, he's just very different. I'm sure new ATs will be discovered for this new Falco as time goes on. He's still got a very good initial jump and now has much greater recovery.

 

[Leg]

Like others have said, Falco is not a shell of his former self, he's just very different. I'm sure new ATs will be discovered for this new Falco as time goes on. He's still got a very good initial jump and now has much greater recovery.

This is the problem. One or two changes are fine, asl ong as the character functions the same. But he's so different that he doesn't feel like Falco anymore :/

And this game barely has ATs, and it seems the noteworthy ones are quickly patched out.

I'm not too sure if there's hope for our favorite bird.

 

[Seagull Joe]

i forgot who it was but there was a super speedy wolf that dominated because of his crazy airspeed

That was me.

You're making me miss Wolf even more.

My has that effect on people <3.

 

[GamesShark]

I feel ya bro.
I don't think Falco was nerfed too bad, but he definitely cannot be played like he could in brawl.
Like you said, SHDL, DACUS, Gatling combo, & kill potential have been taken away, but he can still be played fairly well
if you know how.

 

[GreatDave]

I still believe the blue bird has potential, he's simply very different from Brawl. I'll keep using him, sure that his good skills will come out. After all, the game has just arrived...

 

[GreatDave]

Surely Falco has been nerfed alot since Melee, but I don't feel to define him so "nerfed"...he's just different. Dudes, I believe in him now and ever, he's to great to be left for some other character (I use Wario and sometimes Rosa, but they're my second and third: the first one will always be the blue bird). I'm sure his strenght will come out, I consider him not a top tier but at least one of the best medium tier. If I thought he's soooo nerfed and weakened, I wouldn't use him.

 

[LightLV]

Falco is not a bad character. If you want to play him like he was in Melee/PM or Brawl, then you will never be satisfied with him and should find another character. If you enjoyed easy Dair spikes and chain grabs and powerful laser pressure, then you will never be satisfied with him and should find another character. However if you look past what he no longer is and just take him for face value, Falco is pretty solid. Ive been jumping around the roster alot and he's the character i seem to resonate the most with now.

Take his tools out of the brawl and melee mindset. He still has very strong points, you are just looking in entirely the wrong place. He has most surely been "horribly nerfed" since he has always been an immensely powerful character, but that's no different from saying SSB4 Fox is a shell of his former self....he is, but in context its completely different.

 

[Zionaze]

Falco is not a bad character. If you want to play him like he was in Melee/PM or Brawl, then you will never be satisfied with him and should find another character. If you enjoyed easy Dair spikes and chain grabs and powerful laser pressure, then you will never be satisfied with him and should find another character. However if you look past what he no longer is and just take him for face value, Falco is pretty solid. Ive been jumping around the roster alot and he's the character i seem to resonate the most with now.

Take his tools out of the brawl and melee mindset. He still has very strong points, you are just looking in entirely the wrong place. He has most surely been "horribly nerfed" since he has always been an immensely powerful character, but that's no different from saying SSB4 Fox is a shell of his former self....he is, but in context its completely different.

falco still has a chain grab that goes up to 40% :V

 

[Darklink401]

Falco isn't the best. That much is certain. He's not close to being the best. And he can't fool himself.

But he is by NO means bad. I've been playing the guy. His dair spikes SO solidly. His bair kills so early. His lasers deal lots of early damage, even if not as good as before.

His down B is damn amazing at reflecting projectiles, and can even be used off, and the added recovery is SUCH a big thing, considering his up B was so bad before. (well, still is, but now you can side B too)


He just has to be played differently.

 

[GreatDave]

This is the point...take Falco's good stuff and that's it.
The chance to use the second jump AFTER side B is awesome if you think about that.
So bad his Dair is not fast as in Brawl was...

 

[LightLV]

Dair is the worst move in his kit. I'd attempt nearly any other move than to try to make Dair useful.

 

[BltzZ]

Dair is the worst move in his kit. I'd attempt nearly any other move than to try to make Dair useful.

FAIIRRRRRRR lol I love his fair. It's really consistent and harasses people

 

[Ffamran]

Dair is the worst move in his kit. I'd attempt nearly any other move than to try to make Dair useful.

Dair is like a surprise move, so you can't use it a lot and you need to have good damn read. Once it lands and you meteor someone it's so satisfying. Same with on stage e.g. meteor someone back to the ground to give yourself a breather or something.

 

[Zionaze]

Dair is the worst move in his kit. I'd attempt nearly any other move than to try to make Dair useful.

i got used to the timing on Dair.
so much that when i went back and played brawl i was missing my spikes :x

 

[GreatDave]

In my opinion, Dair was one of Falco's greatest hits in Brawl. So bad now it needs time to strike. I managed to meteor my opponent, sometimes, but they were probably rookies that tried to recover staying over the level of the ground...in many other cases, Fair is very better!