Nerfed into the trash can

[Goldschuss]

So I got my game yesterday, and unlocked Falco pretty quickly. He was my main for Melee and Brawl (and is probably still going to be for WU).
But I really hate what they've done to him.
This character doesn't feel fluent overall anymore. Combos don't work correctly because of the massive delay increase between the hits.
Furthermore they took everything from him: Chain grabbing, laser hop, dash cancel etc.. nothing works anymore.
On top of that, they took the last bit of K.O potential from him, that was already a problem back in brawl.
The improved recovery is good, but was not needed. He needs either more range on his smashes or less delay and warm-up time.

And then there's stuff like the Mii-Gunner but thats offtopic~

 

[M@v]

Its because you are trying to use him like the other games. All those "Problems" you say exist don't, except for lasers not being amazing, and no chaingrab, but nobody has a chaingrab anymore

Lets start with the combos. Dthrow->Upsmash/nair/dash attack still works. Uptilt chains to nair/bair works. Dtilt->basically anything is a combo now, and Dtilt->Upair is a good kill setup. Dthrow->Fair works at higher percents. In addition, Laser locking is partially still in. You can do 3 lasers in a laser lock situation, and the opponent then stands straight up no matter what, allowing a re-grab or dash attack/side b followup.

"On top of that, they took the last bit of K.O potential from him"

....He's better at killing in smash 4 so you know. Try back air out. And watch it kill at around 110% sweet spotted.....from the center of a stage. Offstage you can kill absurd early with it. Last hit of fair can kill of the sides, and upair is strong now too. Upsmash is weaker knockback admittedly, but they changed it to be more of a damage dealing move, as it now has 2 hits. Dsmash is still fast and strong (Range is still kinda meh on it though), and Fsmash is basically unchanged from brawl, a good long ranged kill move. Slower, but good for airdodge and roll reads.

 

[I Dair You]

M@v is right. Falco may be the most underrated character in the game at this point. I main Falco in Melee, Brawl, and PM and he does play differently than he does in the previous Smash games. I originally disliked using him in Smash 4. But now after using the character a bit, I think hes got potential. Dthrow to dash attack or dtilt leads to free follow ups, short hop phantasm can chain into a back air into an onstage tech chase at low percents, his fthrow to reflector is guaranteed at low percents, ftilt to laser lock at 60-70 percent on most of the cast, and sh back air out of shield is a great kill option. Falco will be just fine.

 

[M@v]

I personally prefer Fox and probably won't be playing Falco much in smash 4, but I still stand by my belief Falco's a severely underrated character this early on. He should be fine as you mentioned. I can't see him being any worse than the top end of mid tier; although he definitely has a chance to be even higher then that pending how things go.

 

[BltzZ]

I play Falco relentlessly online, i have a sheik and fox as backups of course but i honestly enjoy playing falco more than the others. I wish they didnt take away fast fall fair to early gimp people lol but we adapt! Still a good character and always will be my favorite.

Sure they took away some of his tools but he has other stuff. We just gotta work with what we got people are constantly giving input on cool new things. Like his Fthrow to short hop phantasm off the edge for early gimps. Its hilarious to hit but really only useful on predictable opponents.

 

[Tino]

It's true that Falco has lost most of his Melee glory days but that doesn't mean he's a horrible fighter. He's still a great character who still has a lot of potential in him; in fact, I might consider playing as him every now and then.

 

[iLLuMinati_EYE]

This is the worst version of falco in any smash brothers game but he's not that bad. In my opinion he's at best an average character. Falco has pretty decent option against most characters, imo characters that have alot of speed can REALLY give him a hard time though

 

[Leg]

I can understand how you feel, Goldschuss.

I am a confident Falco main in Brawl, and now in Smash4 he's a completely different character from what I'm used too. It seems like the things I revolved my game around in Brawl (SHDL, B/Dacus, Chaingrabs, reliable spike) were taken away from him.

While I do think Smash4 Falco moves much better than Brawl Falco, I think Brawl Falco had a much better moveset. But I also think that if Nintendo patches in his true lasers or Dair, then he may be TOO good again. So yeah, he may be garbage in comparison to his other counterparts, but at least he's fair :/

However, I still long for a play style similar to Brawl Falco (Spamable projectile, reliable spike, decent jumps) so Ive been looking more and more into Megaman and Luigi. And it hurts me to say it, but I won't be maining Falco for long if I find something closer to what I want.

 

[BltzZ]

Between my last post on this forum to right now i believe i am on a 20 win streak with blue bird. You have to be patient with falco this time around sometimes you can be aggressive when punishing. But most of him combos are off of grabs.

Dthrow to dash attack follow up with either upair fair or RAR bair. baiting opponents to airdodge into the ground and punishing with a foxtrotted fSMASH. You guys should try the foxtrot Fsmash it covers alot of ground and the range is improved by a little but makes a difference when making hard reads. Good luck

 

[Zionaze]

technically falco can chain grab with the d-throw > f-air > d-throw up to 40% and like M@v mentioned laser locking is available. shooting 3 and then rushing in for a usmash is possible.

 

[Goldschuss]

Hey guys, thanks for all the responses.
If you can collect some more data about how to play Falco correctly then, I'm going to judge later if this my playstyle or not.
I'm sticking for now with Greninja, hence he's extremly fast, is 2nd on the jumping tier, has reliable smashes an awesome chargable projectile and a nice counterattack.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Yeah Falco got transformed into this odd character, he's got a whole new playstyle.
Be patient with him, play smart. He has more presence on land than air with his shine, d-tilt, and fsmash, his side special is alot less risky to use off stage. You should check out some of the other tech and strats for maining him in the other threads and start learning how this game works compared to the others.

Good luck with the Greninja though. Nintendo seems to have an eye on him and keeps nerfing him.

 

[Morbi]

I honestly agree, Falco was probably hit heaviest with the nerf-gun and I am not feeling him despite everyone's claim that he is "just different." He was "just different" from Melee to Brawl; the only difference was that he was not horrible. I still use him in doubles and b-air is quite the effective kill-move, but other than that, I feel as though Fox does pretty much everything better. But that is just me.

 

[genesis_SOC]

I don't miss his short hop double laser or his chain grabs but I miss just about everything else he had, especially his nair priority.

 

[Leg]

I don't miss his short hop double laser or his chain grabs but I miss just about everything else he had, especially his nair priority.

On the contrary, those are the things I miss the most. And while I can understand taking away the chaingrab, dair or lasers, they didn't need to take away everything. Also, I too, miss his Nair priority...

Another thing I noticed is that because Fair was so horrible in Brawl, I've trained myself to never use it. Now its apparently the best move ever and I have no idea where/how/why to use it. It literally doesn't click with me.

 

[Goldschuss]

I don't even wish to have melee falco back. IMO brawl falco was the best. He had the right balance between techskill and not being too strong with it :/

 

[BltzZ]

On the contrary, those are the things I miss the most. And while I can understand taking away the chaingrab, dair or lasers, they didn't need to take away everything. Also, I too, miss his Nair priority...

Another thing I noticed is that because Fair was so horrible in Brawl, I've trained myself to never use it. Now its apparently the best move ever and I have no idea where/how/why to use it. It literally doesn't click with me.

Use fair to gimp opponents trying to recover to the stage. Works amazing against lucario I spiked a link with it yesterday. Short hop it off the edge fair them the knock back is superb

 

[genesis_SOC]

I think Falco's downthrow into Fair is guaranteed at low %s, so that's something. Maybe his dash attack too.

 

[Legend Vermillion]

Falco is bad atm, I hope they buff him or bye bye bird! Some matchups are absurdly hard, he doesnt have nothing good, all I he has is under the average. Try to play him against the top tiers and you will see that he cant do **** :/

 

[Leg]

Falco is bad atm, I hope they buff him or bye bye bird! Some matchups are absurdly hard, he doesnt have nothing good, all I he has is under the average. Try to play him against the top tiers and you will see that he cant do **** :/

This. I fought against a Zelda main who went Shiek after losing his first match to me in tourny the other day. Every Bair I hit was met with 2 or 3 Fairs from her. I was disappointed not in myself, but in Falco for not having any tools to stop her.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I think Falco's downthrow into Fair is guaranteed at low %s, so that's something. Maybe his dash attack too.

It pretty much is unless you are fighting a Jigglypuff, even so if you manage to catch one at about 15% or less you can do it. Dash isn't always a confirmed follow-up.
I should stop doing those so much.

 

[Zionaze]

maybe its just me playing bad people but ive never had any real problems against most of the cast BESIDES Jigglypuff, Rosalina, Ness, and Yoshi. falco just cant deal with them period

 

[BltzZ]

I think Falco's downthrow into Fair is guaranteed at low %s, so that's something. Maybe his dash attack too.

Yeah that is true to both fair and dash attack are comboable after a dthrow at lower percents. Good damage builder and if you condition them to airdodge and bait it you can follow up at higher percents.

 

[Onehandbackhand]

Falco is bad atm, I hope they buff him or bye bye bird! Some matchups are absurdly hard, he doesnt have nothing good, all I he has is under the average. Try to play him against the top tiers and you will see that he cant do **** :/

From my experience, Falco can play pretty well against Shiek and Rosalina. F-Smash on Luma is generally a chiko kill on the smaller Omega stages and Battlefield. Also Dash attack recks chiko. Rosalina players online generally shield dodge since she is literally invisible during the transition and for some reason makes it hard for me to read right now. I haven't had any experience against a good Diddy so I can't say anything about that MU but at the same time if the Falco community page actually tried to put more info out, we would know. IMO I think Falco is much better than fox just based on how I play against Fox. It's all about how you play the MU and since no one wants to work with Falco all because he can't do what he did before then why play the game if you expect everything to be the same. Sakurai probably had an anyeurism making this game competitive on purpose because we all know he never wanted the game to become competitive but if you can't deal with the change then change with the game or go play Brawl. No offense though. Just saying.

 

[Zionaze]

The negative criticism on falcos gameplay and how its not the "same as it was in melee or brawl" reminds me of the smash4 debate if its competitively viable or not :V

 

[Legend Vermillion]

Guys, its not about wanting him to do what he did before. No, its not that. Working with our new tools he is BAD. He hasn´t got any good point that makes him worth to play taking into account his huge bad points which are endless. Also the matchups versus top tiers are almost all negative. I have been playing tourney yesterday and trust me, that matchup is so unfair by a lot of reasons, for example, Yoshi is a nightmare to fight against with Falco. Its sad, I want the bird to be tournament viable but after going to some tourneys and doing my best to prove him is good ... I sadly only can wait for a patch.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

While I hate to say it, Legend is right on a couple points.
He just has so many things holding him back, too much landing lag, and most of his options are too easily punished or avoided by faster characters, and lets face it, even Bowser can match his running speed now.

Even so, I'm not going to give up on him, so I don't expect any of you to just yet either.

 

[Jackson]

Between my last post on this forum to right now i believe i am on a 20 win streak with blue bird. You have to be patient with falco this time around sometimes you can be aggressive when punishing. But most of him combos are off of grabs.

Dthrow to dash attack follow up with either upair fair or RAR bair. baiting opponents to airdodge into the ground and punishing with a foxtrotted fSMASH. You guys should try the foxtrot Fsmash it covers alot of ground and the range is improved by a little but makes a difference when making hard reads. Good luck

mind reminding me how to foxtrot fsmash?

 

[BltzZ]

mind reminding me how to foxtrot fsmash?

lol no prob. Dash forward let go of the left stick to do the fox trot then when you let it go do a forward smash you should slide a little bit forward. For falco its not as large of a slide compared to what little mac can do but it helps prevent Fsmashes from whiffing which hurt my feelings.

 

[Jackson]

lol no prob. Dash forward let go of the left stick to do the fox trot then when you let it go do a forward smash you should slide a little bit forward. For falco its not as large of a slide compared to what little mac can do but it helps prevent Fsmashes from whiffing which hurt my feelings.

lol, thanks man, should be useful. I vaguely remember doing this in Brawl...?

 

[BltzZ]

lol, thanks man, should be useful. I vaguely remember doing this in Brawl...?

yea we had more options to choose from then, like dacus shl dacus d throw to dacus lmao but not anymore =/

 

[Jackson]

yea we had more options to choose from then, like dacus shl dacus d throw to dacus lmao but not anymore =/

man, DACUS being removed in 1.04 makes me really mad, especially since it was confirmed to be in pre-patch...

 

[Legend Vermillion]

man, DACUS being removed in 1.04 makes me really mad, especially since it was confirmed to be in pre-patch...

Erasing ATs is so bad :_

 

[Jackson]

Erasing ATs is so bad :_

Exactly. That reason alone is why I'm basically going back to Melee.

 

[Leg]

Erasing ATs is so bad :_

This actually baffles me since Nintendo claims they want to make the game more competitive, then decide to remove the content that makes it more... well, competitive.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

Falco and Marth are suffering bad from the "they got nerfed so they suck" outcries. I think Falco AND Marth still have a ton of potential in this game. Just because they're not as good as they were in the last 2 games where they were both top tier, does not mean they can't win games and be good. I think they just need some more time for players to flesh them out. I don't think they'll be the same as they were in Brawl or Melee or even as good, but they can still be decent.

 

[Jackson]

Falco and Marth are suffering bad from the "they got nerfed so they suck" outcries. I think Falco AND Marth still have a ton of potential in this game. Just because they're not as good as they were in the last 2 games where they were both top tier, does not mean they can't win games and be good. I think they just need some more time for players to flesh them out. I don't think they'll be the same as they were in Brawl or Melee or even as good, but they can still be decent.

In Smash 4 I think Marth is a lot more solid than Falco.

 

[BltzZ]

Falco lost alot of his options but i still use him solid. Just playing smart not throwing out wild moves relentlessly chasing people off the edge with fair harassing recoveries. I space alot with reflector to cause trips which lead to either re grabs or forwards smashes when they roll forward.

I just love harassing people with Fair lol.

http://youtu.be/mkJg7BAQlhs?list=UUzsJLyYOl-6idSCmvjs1K4w

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Falco lost alot of his options but i still use him solid. Just playing smart not throwing out wild moves relentlessly chasing people off the edge with fair harassing recoveries. I space alot with reflector to cause trips which lead to either re grabs or forwards smashes when they roll forward.

I just love harassing people with Fair lol.

http://youtu.be/mkJg7BAQlhs?list=UUzsJLyYOl-6idSCmvjs1K4w

Wow, I never thought to use the phantasm like that at 0:20.
That's a great option! Especially because I hate trying to get back on stage from the ledge.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Dude...what?

Falco isn't bad at all.

SH Uair>D-tilt>Fair>Reflector is a legit combo.

Bair strings at low percent and kills at higher one, and it's really fast...like, really fast. Catching players out the air with a Bair can link into an upwards angled F-tilt, another Bair, Nair or turn around Utilt. Usmash hits up no matter what angle you hit it from, so it can kill reliably. B-throw and U-throw lasers kill. SB Bair out of shield is a good punish for kills at high percents or at low percents can set up for a grab or jab combo.

I'll show some videos I have soon. I don't think I'm the best Falco to use for example, but in fairly consistent with him, and most of my wind come from him. Oddly enough, him and Marth. lol