Negative Nancies 2: ACTUAL UPDATE THIS TIME! Assist Trophies taken into account.

[dotdotdot!]

Hello Nancies, Pollys, and Nevilles. This new thread has a slightly different angle than the original Negative Nancy Topic. But first, I would like to give a few Definitions:

Negative Nancy: 1. A poster who puts down character ideas without either giving them a chance, or with little reasoning behind their actions. At it's most extreme usage, "Nancy-ing" resembles Trolling.

Positive Polly: 1. A poster who agrees with, or suggests character ideas. Implies always being 'for' a character. Nancy's worst enemy.

Neutral Neville: A poster in the middle. Needs to be convinced to be on one side or another.

I have already outlined what it means to be a Negative Nancy in the last thread (Which I shall most likely repost in this thread) but I have never really outlined another ingratiating trend that is almost as annoying as blindly rejecting ideas that don't immediately appeal to you. I am talking about those select few characters which ARE fair game for derision. There is a selection of rules for characters eligable for Brawl, and either through ignorance of these rules, or through blatant disregard for these rules, some Positive Pollys feel the need to have these characters be in SSBB.

Some of them, I admit, would make fine characters. I am a firm believer that you can make a good character out of just about anything. No, the reason for these characters exclusion is based in the Statements made by Sakurai, and through some common sense reasoning.

Now, I must stress that if this is your first visit to my humble thread, please scroll down to the second post in this topic and read "Negative Nancies 1" to find out what not to say about character suggestions.

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Banned: I suppose I should get down to the nitty gritty. These characters are banned from Smash Bros:

1.) 3rd party characters who have never appeared on a Nintendo Console or handheld.
Sakurai has stated that for a Third party character to be eligible for Brawl, he or she must have appeared on a Nintendo-produced console. Snake is eligible, thanks to his NES and Gamecube connections. Master Chief is not, thanks to his Xbox exclusivity. This is the easiest guideline to follow, as it is implied in the Smash Subtitle: "Nintendo All-Stars."

2.) Characters who originated in Anime and Manga.
Sakurai said no Anime and Manga characters. This means No Goku, no Monkey D. Luffy, no Naruto, and no Ichigo. Easy enough, right? Well, keep in mind that in Japan, the word "Anime" implies all cartoons, and not just ones originating in Japan, same with "Manga" for comics. This means even though you loved the "Chip n' Dale: Rescue Rangers" game as a kid, Chip and Dale cannot be in Brawl. Same for American comics, like Batman, Ninja Turtles, and Spiderman.

2.5.) Characters who did not originate in Video games.
This ties into #2. Though Sakurai never said so, I believe that it's safe to assume that video game characters who got their start in literature (Hermione Granger, Jekyll and Hyde, Tom Sawyer), Television (Wayne's World), Movies (The Wizard of Oz, Total Recall, Diehard), Music (50 cent, Aerosmith (From Revolution X)), Toys (G.I Joe, Barbie), PSAs (Incredible Crash dummies), and advertisements (7up spot, the Noid, Ronald Mcdonald, California Raisins) cannot and will not be considered for brawl.
That was a really fun list to make.

3) Characters who are not from Video games.
This is common sense. If a character has never been in a video game, he or she cannot be in Smash. It's as simple as that, sadly.

4.) Assist Trophy characters
As you may have noticed, the latest update concerns itself with a little item called an "Assist Trophy," which appears to work similarly to Marvel Vs. Capcom's character Assists crossed with the pokeball item.
Cool concept, right? Well the most interesting is this quote from the "What are Assist Trophies?" page.

"Bear in mind, though, that you can’t control any of the characters appearing on these pages. Let there be no mistake about that...

...Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters. You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them."

If I am reading this right, then it appears that any character who appears as an Assist Trophy will NOT appear as a playable character. At this point, these characters are listed below:

Nintendog
Hammer Bros.
Samurai Goroh
Dr. Wright (Sim City SNES)
Deoxys
Knuckle Joe

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Gray area: These guidelines are less strict than the ones above, but are still somewhat impossible.

1.) Characters who COULD be in smash on a technicality.
Cloud fits in here. Sure he was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, but he was a minor support character, not a main one. This also holds for the Prince of all Cosmos from Katamari Damacy. He never had a main game on a Nintendo console, but he was in a Namco-themed racing game. These two characters are not at all likely, as are any others that fit this criteria.

2.) Characters in positions that arent "Major" enough for a character slot.
I'm not talking about sidekicks or anything, I'm talking about really minor characters. "Error" from Zelda 2. "Shyguy" from Mario 2. "New Age Retro Hippie" from Earthbound. These characters, though they would be fun to have as sheer fanservice, would most likely detract from the game as a whole, and are far too minor to really warrant inclusion. Nothing against them, but for Shyguy to be included, they would have to first pass over Toad, Wart, Geno, Mallow, and any other hero or villan who was ever in a game fighting a Shyguy.

2.5.) Sidekick or villan characters before their series has had it's "Main" entry.
Nothing against sidekicks, but if Fox had never been in Smash, then Falco would never have appeared. If Pikachu wasn't in, Mewtwo and Jigglypuff would have been passed over. My point is, it is unwieldy and somewhat illogical to include the villan or sidekick into Smash without first introducing it's main hero. This includes including Wesker or Krauser before Jill, Chris, or Leon from Resident Evil, and it also applies to including Tails or Knuckles before Sonic.

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unlikely, but not impossible: These rules are somewhat more flexible than the ones above, based on Some things Sakurai said.

1.) Characters who use guns.
Snake already breaks this rule clean in two. The compromise is, of course, that he never uses the guns in the Smash Bros. game itself. This means that it is possible for characters like Jill Valentine to get in, as long as no guns are used. Characters whose movesets rely soley on guns seem to be out of luck. Tin Star comes to mind, as do the guys from Sunset Riders.

2.) Characters from "Lesser franchises."
Now you have to define what a "Lesser franchise" is. Sure Mario and Link are "Major," as are Sonic, Megaman, and Pac-man, but beyond that, what? Compared to those franchises, EVERYTHING is minor. Also, other people have different ideas about what "Minority" is. Some people might think that Megaman is less important than Street Fighter, and others might think the opposite. Some people (Like me) are pulling for lesser franchises all along, like Phoenix Wright, and even then, is Phoenix so minor? It's a huge series in Japan, with three games out, plus one remake, with a fourth main game on the way, and another DS remake coming up. Minority seems very relative as far as I'm conserned.
With the topic of minority, you have to look at the 3rd part series already represented, Metal Gear. MG is quite minor as far as people who only own gamecubes are concerned, but he still got into a "Nintendo All-Stars" fighting game. I would have thought that Castlevania would be represented before Metal Gear, as I always viewed that as the flagship Konami series, and it is far more prominant on Nintendo systems. Oh well.

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Exceptions: These characters may have the stuff to defy the rules set down up above, and may become characters.

1.) R.O.B the Robot. Flies in the face of: Gray Area #1
He is a Nintendo Peripheral, and never actually "appeared" in the games he controlled, but technically he is a character IN the games Gyromite and Stack-up. He was invented by Professor Hector, and has to help Hector collect the Dynamite strew about Hector's lab.
Judging from his appearances in minor roles in Nintendo games ever since Kirby's Dreamland 3, I'd say R.O.B has possibilities in some capacity, including character.

2.) Miyamoto. Flies in the face of: Banned #3
The man who made Mario. He is the creator of a good portion of the characters in Smash Bros., so why not include him? He has been in the credits of nearly every Nintendo video game since the 1980s, and is extremely easy to characature and make moves for. It would also be the ultimate fanservice and the ultimate Nintendo Tribute.
Just because of his position in the gaming firmament, I'd say let him be in Smash.
Mic put it best when he said:

Myamoto said himself that he had a 1% chance of being ingame.

3.) Any Pokemon. Flies in the face of: Gray Area #2, #2.5
All Pokemon are at once Generic enemies, like Shyguys, Vliians, like Gannondorf, and sidekicks, like Falco. This means that they broke Rule #2 and 2.5 wide open by including them without first including their trainer.

4.) Snake. Flies in the face of: Unlikely #1
He uses guns, yet he's in... huh.

Any other exceptions you can think of, I'd be happy to consider them.

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There you have it. Now the question is, what do you do when you see a misguided Polly posting one of these characters.

Easy: Nothing at all.

At least for the "Banned" characters, you can just let the topic die quietly without raising a fuss, and it would serve your purpose ten times more than if you went the Nancy route and complained about it, thus bumping the thread.

For Grey Area, and Unlikely characters, you can calmly point out the problems, but please try to be constructive. It would be better just to stop posting, really.

This does not give you any kind of permission to flame those that choose to post the characters above, so don't do it.

Thank you.

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EDIT: Dec. 12

I have just bourne witness to a breakdown of what makes a good character choice, made by Bowserlick (OP here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=1966967&postcount=133)

Then context of this is that it's from a Metroid character thread, so naturally Bowser used Dark Samus, Ridley, and the Hunters as examples. These are three questions to ask yourself when you have an idea for a character.

There are a couple things a character from a series should be judged on. In this case the rivals are being debated. Who should get in?

Well I say there are three main factors.
1. Is the character famous enough? Renown? Will a majority or even half of players know who the character is?
2. How flavorful is the character? Will it offer new ideas and new movesets and add cretaivity and originality to the game?
3. How feasible is the character? Would it work mechanically?

Now here are my thoughts on how the rivals fall in the categories. The rivals are the hunters, Dark Samus, and Ridley. Keep in mind that I only played Super Metroid and the some of Metroid Prime. So I may not be the best authority on this.

1. Is the character famous enough? Renown? Will a majority or even half of players know who the character is?

Sakurai will add in characters that are not extremely popular. He said so on his website. But bear in mind that he also had a popularity poll. So he definately is trying to add in popular choices as well as unique, odd ball choices (remember G&W).

Ridley is on the top of the list in this category. He has been in the most games and serves as an integral plot point in the series, especially his role on Samus's past and future. Most players, both old and new, will recognize him.

Dark Samus comes next. She is in the latest series of games. She appeals to the new audience. Most younger gamers want her in. She is a recognizabe force and is the new main villain. Still she does not hold the fame that Ridley does.

The hunters are next. They were only in one game that seemed to flesh out the bounty hunter profile of Samus. A good portion of the audience may not who the hunter is. And a good portion of the audience may feel cheated that a hunter got in over Ridley or Dark Samus who have more reputation and history.

2. How flavorful is the character? Will it offer new ideas and new movesets and add cretivity and originality to the game?

I say Ridley tops the list once again. He would be a heavier character with great recovery. A new combination (although some worry a broken one). He also scores well in flavor. A giant space dragon that leads the space pirates on their quest to cultivate metroids. He has wings, breath weapons, and a sinister look. Plus he is inteliigent to boot. I think Ridley would look the coolest fighting.

Next I would rank the hunters. Each one has a designated ability and a method of fighting. Hunters could fight differently then Samus and the other characters while still bringing in the bounty hunter flavor.

Dark Samus, for me, scores low. She looks like Samus. Not all her moves are the same, but many are. And the moves she does do, I can picture Samus doing. Not true with Ridley at all. And not as true as with the hunters. To me she seems like she would end up to close to clone material. She may have different stats but her moveset will seem stale because of the similarity in body structure and even moves. Remember I am speculating, she would not necessarily turn out this likes, Sakurai is a smart guy.

3. How feasible is the character? Would it work mechanically?

Dark Samus takes the trophy on this category. While I think she lacks flavor, she will work. How do we know this? Samus works. And I think Dark Samus would have the same looking moves with stat adjustments and maybe a few different specials. And of course her energy weapons (instead of flamethrowers and plasma) would be phazon with different graphics. Just like Gannondorf uses purple magic instead of fire but goes through the same motions as CF.

The Hunters are next. They have bodies that could fight and fit every group of attacks. Enough said.

Ridley could work. But I seem him as the lowest because there are many features he contains that could be made broken if all were included. He is fast, heavy, strong, agile, can fly (great recovery), and has projectiles. That sounds better then Fox is. Of course Mewtwo (who can destroy people with thoughts) sucked. So Ridley can get in, but can he get in and not suck or be broken? Sure. But the developers would have to take extra care and time with him. I think its worth it, but others may not.

Therefore, I would say Ridley. Followed by a hunter, and then Dark Samus. But in bear in mind I have a negative bias towards clones and characters that may be clones.

Take it, and prosper.

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Edit: February 4

Wow. I actually thought of something that Nancies say that I hadn't thought of before. Okay, I'm gonna lay this one on you now.

Keep in mind that this rule more applies to the first Negative Nancy thread, which you can read either scroll down to the second post in this thread, or go here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72414

What am I up to? 9 rules. Okay.

This is argument #9 commonly used by Negative Nancy:

9. X character? Why not put in Y character (Usually a character not from a video game) while we're at it? [/sarcasm]
This may require a little explanation. This argument is usually used when the Nancy believes that a character is so ridiculous that he equates including them in Smash Bros. with including a really out there character. Popular Y character candidates include the Trix Rabbit and Michael Jackson. This argument is rather flawed, especially if the character you are attacking really isn't that ridiculous. Character who are unlikely, but still have a chance certainly can't match the ridiculousness of including Michael Jackson in Brawl, and only serves to make you, the Nancy, look like a fool for crying wolf on a fair character choice.
The "Sarcasm tag" on the other hand, is a useful tool for making fun of people over the internet, as Sarcasm cannot normally be detected over the internet.


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EDITEDITEDIT! HOLY CRAP! Actual news that effects the Negative Nancy thread!

Though i'm sad at the news of Samurai Goroh being unplayable (He wasn't on my top list, but I liked him as a character) I'm at least glad Sakurai is finally giving us some concrete "No" answers as to the final Playable character list.

For those of you playing the home game, if you had Samurai Goroh, Hammer Bros, or the Nintendo on your short list, sorry.

 

[dotdotdot!]

MicEdit: A link to the old topic
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72414


A repost of "Negative Nancies" 1. Read, it still applies.

While reading all these multitudes of Character discussions there is always the greek chorus of posters who give their arguments over why someone's dream character sucks and would be a horrible idea.

Unless worded and argued well, this gets on my nerves, because invariably there are a few avenues that the argument goes down. Heres a few of the common arguments that are, quite simply, annoying and easily defended against unless properly backed up.

1. X character just doesn't fit in SB².
Strange position to take without some explaination. Keep in mind that in Smash Bros. You have an Italian Plumber, Elf Swordsman, small electric rat, Bounty Huntress from space, two Princesses, and most recently, an Angel and a secret agent who's brother is inside an arm. This sort of company isn't very choosy and I'm sure that many characters would fit in just fine. Possible exceptions would be the Paddles from Pong, and the Long Piece from Tetris, and even then, a talented character designer could probably think up something cool with them.

1.5. X character just doesn't fit in SB² because the game is darker this time around.
Snake is one character. One character does not darker make, and even then, his moves are going to revolve around the cardboard box, or at least feature it predominantly. Snake being involved doesn't change the fact that the game is the silliest fighting game in the entire Video game canon. This is the game where Samus, an intergalactic bounty huntress, can have a fight with a small, suicidal electric mouse, and lose. This is the game where plumbers and elves collide.
Metaknight and Pit aren't so serious either. Meta is still a ball of fluff dressed up like a knight, and Pit is an angel with huge feet. Not to mention the fact that both of them are balanced out in silliness by the farting wonder himself, Wario.

2. Nintendo Doesn't own X character.
If you had brought up this argument two months ago, it would have been valid, but then Snake happened. Like it or not, Snake in SB² has opened up countless possibilities for characters in Smash Bros. Now, I agree some companies are nigh impossible. Sony and Microsoft are right out (And by extension, Rare, and other 2nd parties of those two). Characters apparently have to appear on a Nintendo Console, so Cloud and the Katamari Prince are out (Though don't rub it in, this fact makes many people sad, including me. Poor Prince.). Square is pushing it, but they are making a Mario Basketball game for the DS. Now Capcom and Namco are great companies for speculation. Both have history of making games for Ninty (Capcom: Zelda Minish Cap. Namco: Mario Kart Arcade) and both have full catalogues of characters to pull from. Sega would be good just because of the irony of all the fake Sonic/Tails codes from the last game.
It is true that Snake is in there because Kojima and Miyamoto are friends, but still, whos to say that other companies haven't asked and offered characters for SB². It is a Juggernaut of a franchise, and was one of the games that kept Gamecube afloat. Though there definately won't be as many as there are 1st and 2nd party chars.
Ammendment: I would like to point out that Snake first appeared on the MSX console, and thus by default is more of a Phillips/Goldstar/Spectavideo/Sony character. Imagine that.

3. X Character sucks.
Who are you to say he/she sucks? Are you the king of Video Games? Should I kneel down and give your boots a lick? Give us a reason why he sucks or, to put it as one would say on the Internet: GTFO.

3.5. (and I quote) No.
Hmmm. I wonder why this argument doesn't hold water? (Spoiler: It's the same reason # 3 doesn't work)

4. X Character would have no moves.
Simple answer: Then give him moves. Cap. Falcon had no moves. Fox had no moves. Sheik had no moves. Zelda stole all her moves from Link. This argument simply does not hold water. If a character was in a video game, there will always be some defining trait or theme from which he could draw moves. Fox had Lasers and other paraphenalia of the future. Sheik had the speed and movements of a Ninja. Falcon Punched things... With fire. If you think a character would not have moves, then think of what you remember from all the games that character was in. I promise you, unless they are the paddles from pong, they have possible moves.

5. X Character would just be a clone of Y Character.
Another Simple answer: Then don't make him a clone. Gannondorf didn't HAVE to be a clone, they just did so because of ease of programming. I assure you that there is the potential of every character to be unique in their own right. Look at Samus Vs. Justin Bailey Samus. JB looks like she is going to be insanely different from Samus, and not just a Samus clone. If they could take the exact same character and make two entirely different characters out of her, than they could go the extra mile and make Ridly unique from Bowser.

6. X Character is Too Big/small.
I'm a fan of these Simple answers: Make them smaller/bigger. Kirby is only 1 foot tall in his own continuity, and the Pokemon are similarly tiny. Bowser has fluctuated between Godzilla Size (SNES Sim City) to just a little taller than Mario (Super Mario Bros. 1, Mario RPG). It would be easy for devs to scale characters down or up to accomidate for size issues. This argument is common for Ridley, even though she has similarly fluctuated in size between perfectly sized (Metroid 1, Opening to SSBM) to Godzilla huge (Metroid Prime).

---

I'm not saying these arguments aren't valid, a couple of them are sort of stupid, but all of them could be valid if you properly back them up. Doshin the Giant WOULD be too big for Smash, as would a Collosus from Shadow of the Collosus. They would be too big because their hugeness is alluded to in their names and is important to the plot and structure of their games. Tetris peices would have no moves because all they do is fall and disappear and have no real place to draw moves from beyond this (But actually, I think I've stoked my imagination into thinking up some moves, but this post is way too long as it is.)

Main point: Think before you post, when posting anything.

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Edit: Hmmm, I still see Nancy being Negative in this board. Heres a new one.

7. X character in SSBM should be taken out Because of Y Reason. =Updated May 22=
This is just cruel. Any character you can think of in SSBM is liked and mained by someone (Yes, Even Pichu!). Think how it would feel if someone proposed the removal of your favorite character? It is true that Sakurai has said that all 26 may not be returning, but does that give you permission to be king of videogames? I don't think so. If you don't like a certain character, then thats why the devs gave you 25 others to choose from.
As an alternative to this, how about discussing (With civility) who might be excommunicated from Smash. There are nicer ways to go about it, but keep in mind: If you insult any character, you are, by proxy, insulting everyone who mains and secondaries that character and are inviting flames and rebuttals. Don't be trolls, just because Sakurai said it doesn't give you permission to flame Pichu and Dr. Mario six ways to sunday.

8. X franchise already has too many characters.
Nintendo is a company, and like any other company, they like money. Like it or not, Mario sells. He has for years. You could moan all you like and resist any more characters from the popular franchises, but the game, most likely, will always have a good chunk of Mario characters in the SSB series. Think of it as Nintendo saying "Thank you" to Mario for all his years of service. Besides that, just because the cast is rounded out with Wario, Toad, and Daisy doesn't mean that your favorite franchise won't get another character.
Thanks to McFox for this one.

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Edit: Point 1.5 added. Point 2 expanded slightly.

And a little note about what to do if you don't like a character idea:

Protip: Do nothing at all. This seems to be the best kept secret on the internet, but if you don't post in a particular topic, it won't bump, and it will eventually fade into obsurity. Now, some popular topics may not fade so gracefully, but some of the more obscure or rediculous characters might, and your certainly not helping matters by posting your dissent.

Remember, The mob was able to thrive because alcohol was illegal, one of the reasons Mortal Kombat was allowed to thrive was because of the controversey surrounding the concept of ultraviolence, The best PR man for violent video games is Jack Thompson. Making a brouhaha about the latest Pokemon up for consideration in SB² will only hurt your case against them.

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Edit for May 24:
Hello Nancies, just a little note for all y'all. Make sure you read the entire thread before you post dissent, if you must post dissent. Some other Nancy may have posted your argument before you did, so look out for that. This actually applies to all the Positive Pauls and Neutral Nevilles out there too. When posting, make sure nobody posted what you have to say first.

Edit: February 4

Wow. I actually thought of something that Nancies say that I hadn't thought of before. Okay, I'm gonna lay this one on you now.

Keep in mind that this rule more applies to the first Negative Nancy thread, which you can read either scroll down to the second post in this thread, or go here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=72414

What am I up to? 9 rules. Okay.

This is argument #9 commonly used by Negative Nancy:

9. X character? Why not put in Y character (Usually a character not from a video game) while we're at it? [/sarcasm]
This may require a little explanation. This argument is usually used when the Nancy believes that a character is so ridiculous that he equates including them in Smash Bros. with including a really out there character. Popular Y character candidates include the Trix Rabbit and Michael Jackson. This argument is rather flawed, especially if the character you are attacking really isn't that ridiculous. Character who are unlikely, but still have a chance certainly can't match the ridiculousness of including Michael Jackson in Brawl, and only serves to make you, the Nancy, look like a fool for crying wolf on a fair character choice.
The "Sarcasm tag" on the other hand, is a useful tool for making fun of people over the internet, as Sarcasm cannot normally be detected over the internet.

 

[Muffin_man]

Another exception would be James Bond. While I have no idea why, he appeared in the character poll for Melee, and he's appeared again on the character poll for Brawl, so I guess Sakurai either really likes James Bond or doesn't realise that James Bond existed before Goldeneye.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Another exception would be James Bond. While I have no idea why, he appeared in the character poll for Melee, and he's appeared again on the character poll for Brawl, so I guess Sakurai either really likes James Bond or doesn't realise that James Bond existed before Goldeneye.

Or maybe a lot of people who play video games voted for him. The Proximity Mine from Goldeneye WAS included (Though they never explicitly stated thats what it was, I always just assumed because of the RARE connection to Smash 64). My professional opinion? Don't bet on it.

 

[xianfeng]

I have to disagree with the miyamoto thing he is a human and has never been in a game and if nintendo is trying to appeal to new gamers then some old asian dude won't help

 

[Muffin_man]

Or maybe a lot of people who play video games voted for him. The Proximity Mine from Goldeneye WAS included (Though they never explicitly stated thats what it was, I always just assumed because of the RARE connection to Smash 64). My professional opinion? Don't bet on it.

Oh, I don't think he'll make it in, but it doesn't change the fact that Sakurai still bothered to consider him not once, but twice for Smash Bros.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

are u serious about miyamoto? he breaks banned rules 2.5 and 3. being in the credits in a game doesnt count as an appearence, as noone reads them anyway. besides he isnt a "video game character". arent all the ssb games for major "video game characters" to face off against each other?

 

[Mic_128]

Myamoto said himself that he had a 1% chance of being ingame.

 

[Uncle Meat]

And thus the entire post must be useless.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

maybe they will hav some sort of lottery to decide which characters get in, and miyamoto will win the jackpot!

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

Or maybe a lot of people who play video games voted for him. The Proximity Mine from Goldeneye WAS included (Though they never explicitly stated thats what it was, I always just assumed because of the RARE connection to Smash 64). My professional opinion? Don't bet on it.

Goldeneye O.o? I heard it was from Perfect Darkness. Anyway, Bond won't be in. He'd be easy to make a moveset too, actually

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Frankly, I think having Miyamoto in the game would ruin the whole thing. Could they really make the creator of all that is Nintendo balanced, or would he always be top tier? And I really don't think that it would be in the vein of Smash as it is to play as Miyamoto - the fun of the game is seeing all the characters you loved from different games come together to fight it out.

Just my thoughts. Good post.

- Captain R.D. Obvious

 

[McFox]

1.) R.O.B the Robot. Flies in the face of: Gray Area #1
He is a Nintendo Peripheral, and never actually "appeared" in the games he controlled, but technically he is a character IN the games Gyromite and Stack-up. He was invented by Professor Hector, and has to help Hector collect the Dynamite strew about Hector's lab.
Judging from his appearances in minor roles in Nintendo games ever since Kirby's Dreamland 3, I'd say R.O.B has possibilities in some capacity, including character.

Actually, he appeared as the last unlockable character in Mario Kart DS. So that not only puts him as an actual player character in a game, but proves Nintendo hasn't forgotten about him. A point to ponder in any case.

 

[SupaSmashBrotha]

Thank you dotdotdot. Not only do negative Nancies annoy me but so do ppl who support just any old character. So i humbly thank you for your words of wisdom sensei. *bows*

 

[Promethus]

I have to disagree with the miyamoto thing he is a human and has never been in a game

Wii sports. Nuff said.

 

[Vasilicus]

Can we say no more pokemon. Im so tired of seeing threads like "Gyarados for Brawl" that are so obviously impossible its ridiculous.

 

[xianfeng]

Can we say no more pokemon. Im so tired of seeing threads like "Gyarados for Brawl" that are so obviously impossible its ridiculous.

I made a thread called "when suggesting a pokemon" it ruled out a lot of them, but it died because no one had anything else to say

 

[dotdotdot!]

Frankly, I think having Miyamoto in the game would ruin the whole thing. Could they really make the creator of all that is Nintendo balanced, or would he always be top tier? And I really don't think that it would be in the vein of Smash as it is to play as Miyamoto - the fun of the game is seeing all the characters you loved from different games come together to fight it out.

Just my thoughts. Good post.

- Captain R.D. Obvious

Of course they could make him balanced. Thats not the issue.

As for him not being "in the vein" of Smash. I always just figured that Miyamoto is so ingrained in the history of Nintendo that his place in Smash Bros. is almost a no-brainer. I don't expect it, but I wouldn't put it past them. He would be the final character you unlock, in the "Game and Watch" vein, and the moment you got into the fight to unlock him, a smile would appear on your face, because that huge exaggerated smile and moves that simply scream "Nintendo" and nothing else would be trying to put you down.

He wouldn't ruin Smash, he would make it better, thats why he is an Exception.

Can we say no more pokemon. Im so tired of seeing threads like "Gyarados for Brawl" that are so obviously impossible its ridiculous.

But they aren't impossible, thats the point.

True, certain pokemon have more of a chance to get in than others. Popular ones are given Carte Blanche, like Pikachu and Jigglypuff, while major "villan" pokemon are given the next priority. The problem is, this is all based on the meta-mind of the Japanese people. We know that Pikachu was the most popular pokemon when SSB64 came out, but we have no idea who is most popular now, or even which one Sakurai likes the best.

Thats another thing to consider, what Sakurai likes. He might say, "Screw it! I absolutely love Rhydon, put him in!" And it would go, because he's the guy in charge (Pending Nindendo's approval of course).

 

[xianfeng]

Miyamoto would be a stupid character though, he's an old man what's he gonna do hide behind his body gaurds (that's if they wanna make it realistic)

 

[DarkKnight077]

What about a minor character from a popular franchise like Megaman? I mean I guess it could work no?

 

[MAtgSy]

What about a minor character from a popular franchise like Megaman? I mean I guess it could work no?

1. Not when space for 3rd parties is limited. Sakurai said only 1-2 additional 3rds.

2. Miyamoto was in the Wiisports games, that's gotta count for something, right?

3. Mario Kart DS might've have decreased R.O.B.'s chances of being in SSBB. Being the surprise-final-character-no-one-saw-coming in 1 game means he can't do the same in a 2nd.

4. I think Captain N should be argued as an exception to the no anime character rule. Sure he was never in any game & only in a cartoon & comic, but the comic & toon were about Nintendo characters. More than that, they were about Nintendo characters (& 3rd party characters) from different game meeting each other & teaming or battling 1 another. Captain N represents some of the main aspects of SSB & excluding him from the series seems very bizarre.

 

[Mic_128]

Miyamoto would be a stupid character though, he's an old man what's he gonna do hide behind his body gaurds (that's if they wanna make it realistic)

Mario still shoots fireballs from his plam and they can still jump and dodge in the air, so I don't think realism is an issue.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm loving the obscure homestarrunner reference

Kind of like my smashboards name

 

[avyuir]

If you are to suggest a pokemon thread I would say make sure its a major pokemon like a pokemon that has played a good part in movies/shows/games. I mean, the others are pretty much worthless and just need to be caught to fill the pokedex.

 

[Skywalker]

2.5.) Characters who did not originate in Video games.
This ties into #2. Though Sakurai never said so, I believe that it's safe to assume that video game characters who got their start in literature (Hermione Granger, Jekyll and Hyde, Tom Sawyer), Television (Wayne's World), Movies (The Wizard of Oz, Total Recall, Diehard), Music (50 cent, Metallica (From Revolution X)), Toys (G.I Joe, Barbie), PSAs (Incredible Crash dummies), and advertisements (7up spot, the Noid, Ronald Mcdonald, California Raisins) cannot and will not be considered for brawl.

There goes my idea for Darth Vader. :/

 

[dotdotdot!]

There goes my idea for Darth Vader. :/

I'm sad to see it go, but glad it's gone.

 

[GaryCXJk]

4. I think Captain N should be argued as an exception to the no anime character rule. Sure he was never in any game & only in a cartoon & comic, but the comic & toon were about Nintendo characters. More than that, they were about Nintendo characters (& 3rd party characters) from different game meeting each other & teaming or battling 1 another. Captain N represents some of the main aspects of SSB & excluding him from the series seems very bizarre.

Although I do need to debunk that, simply because Kevin Keene isn't licensed by Nintendo anymore (just the Nintendo characters, although I do need to ask DVDInsider about that), you do strike a point. Kevin Keene did bring gaming characters to each other. Although he also did bring in non-Nintendo-characters to each other (where the creators were screwing up Simon Belmont), it's a great symbolism.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If Miyamoto makes it in, I may need to hurt myself in some way... can anyone actually think of how bad the game would be with Miyamoto as a character.

He's a real person, not a videogame character... he'd break just about every rule being in. I'm going with a big NO WAY

:|

 

[GaryCXJk]

If anyone can think how bad the idea could be, you can also think how good the idea could be.

It's in the could.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If it happens, then I'll hate Miyamoto and the designer that put him in.


I'll support Miyamoto as.... maybe a sandbag substitute..... but I'd much rather that be tingle *evil laugh*

 

[Diddy Kong]

If it happens, then I'll hate Miyamoto and the designer that put him in.


I'll support Miyamoto as.... maybe a sandbag substitute..... but I'd much rather that be tingle *evil laugh*

Dont worry. The Miyamoto character in Wii Sport was just the Mii of Mr. Miyamoto himself. It pretty much shows how many possibilities you have with creating Mii's. Anyways since Miyamoto is just a Mii this says he still didnt physically appeared in a game.

 

[MirrowPR]

People everybody has to realize 2 things..1 He has the RIGHT to come as a playable caracter...2 How could the creator of our happiness ruin the game?! He's worthy enough to make a whole game with him as a star

 

[PudgeSX]

lol some people thought Tin Star might possibly be in the game? growing up i thought I was the only one who even considered playing that game, lol that makes me feel all warm and cuddly inside.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

People everybody has to realize 2 things..1 He has the RIGHT to come as a playable caracter...2 How could the creator of our happiness ruin the game?! He's worthy enough to make a whole game with him as a star

Creators aren't often brazen enough to insert themselfs into their work. We don't call the lightbulb the "Edison" do we? When people do something like this, it often ends up detracting from the creation.

If he's in the game, apparently his brawl attack will be hubris.

 

[dotdotdot!]

Creators aren't often brazen enough to insert themselfs into their work. We don't call the lightbulb the "Edison" do we? When people do something like this, it often ends up detracting from the creation.

If he's in the game, apparently his brawl attack will be hubris.

But thats the thing. Miyamoto isn't making the game. Sakurai is. If Miyamoto gets into the game it will be a glorious salute to Shiggy's role in Nintendo's history.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

You and I definitely have different definitions of the word "glorious"

 

[allbeastveteran]

Tom Nook doesnt break any rules or grey areas. he is the most reconizable character from a pure nintendo game. they couldnt put in the main character (the one u play as) because he/she changes depending on wut u answer at the beginning. for a move set he could throw chairs and other funiture or he could have the nooklings follow him and be an ice climber like team of 3 characters.

 

[dotdotdot!]

You and I definitely have different definitions of the word "glorious"

Apparently we do. What is it about immortalizing Shiggy into a Nintendo game that rubs you the wrong way?

Oh, and Hedgedawg. I just realized something. Yeah. Creators used to insert themselves into games all the time. There are quite a few games that include secret rooms where the game creators insert themselves. In Pokemon, it isn't even secret. It's in the same building you get Eevee. One of the ending sequences to Chrono Trigger is entirely taken up by a creator room. Also, very often you'll find creator names on tombstones or to fill out lists of names.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Uh huh.... and notice that when things like that are in games, they are small, insignificant, easy to miss things.

Having Shiguru as an easter egg somewhere is fine, but having the flashing sign "Play as Miyamoto" is just stupid

 

[GaryCXJk]

You'll have to remember, if it wasn't for Shigsy we wouldn't have Nintendo any more. He practically saved Nintendo from doom.