Negative feedback on Falcon

[THEWIIStephen]

I have been browsing brawl tier and character forums for a while and i have noticed that Captian Falcon has gained the most negative feedback in all of the brawl characters. Also, i also seem to notice that Captain falcon has been loosing matches from wifi vids on youtube.

Now it is too early for any of us to definitively judge him(hell i am still waiting for the european release of Brawl) but this leads be to think that Captain Falcon is either underrated or nerfed horrifically. This is somewhat a bit unfair at a certain point cause all the other people who are fanatically obsessed with their mains(I am talking about noob marth, and newcomer mains) tend to talk bout their characters without realizing their real matchups. At least, CF players here know what they are up against.

Please share your thoughts and comment.

 

[IWuvGeno]

Falcon will be one of the worst characters in the game, simply because he has about 6 or 7 match-ups where he has no hope of winning. It is really frustrating, and the sooner I accept this and move on .. the better. It's a shame too, because a lot of us were really trying hard to make him work.

PS: That's 6 or 7 complete **** match-ups.... there are even more disadvantaged...

 

[KeyKid19]

I still maintain that he will end up being middle tier or barely below middle tier. The more I play as him the more I'm able to mask his disadvantages against each character matchup. They are still bad matchups but I can at least lessen the difference a little you know? I really wish someone in my local area had a good Olimar so I could work on beating him. Falcon is indeed tough but he's too fun for me to abandon.

 

[THEWIIStephen]

I still maintain that he will end up being middle tier or barely below middle tier. The more I play as him the more I'm able to mask his disadvantages against each character matchup. They are still bad matchups but I can at least lessen the difference a little you know? I really wish someone in my local area had a good Olimar so I could work on beating him. Falcon is indeed tough but he's too fun for me to abandon.

Yes i see your point but CF is being bashed at too soon. Besides, i hardly find any CF brawl vids on the internet at the moment. Maybe a year from now, the matchups are fully analysed and we can really verify if he is as terrible as a lot of people claim.

 

[KeyKid19]

I agree. He is certainly not great but anyone who says he is the worst character in the game or rock-bottom tier is incorrect in their assessment of him.

 

[Iwan]

Falcon will be one of the worst characters in the game, simply because he has about 6 or 7 match-ups where he has no hope of winning. It is really frustrating, and the sooner I accept this and move on .. the better. It's a shame too, because a lot of us were really trying hard to make him work.

PS: That's 6 or 7 complete **** match-ups.... there are even more disadvantaged...

One of those matchups= R.O.B

Seriously...**** those broken, disjointed hit boxes R.O.B has lol .

And to the topic creator: Falcon is still viable, and if played enough with him you can become pretty **** good with him. The air dodging in brawl (see: more than one) has just made the game harder on falcon.

Still, i disagree with him being "one of the worst characters" in the game.
In fact i highly disagree.

 

[Medic]

Falcon's pretty tough to play, but believe me, he's a tough customer. He can take quite a bit of abuse, and if you bounce around quick, you can do a lot of good things with him.
That said, I wish they didn't nerf the falcon kick to the point where it does not kill, even at 999%. That was...kinda depressing.
The Elbow was buffed, as was the backhand.The Down-tilt is actually a rather nice attack, (We call it Soccer kick 1 where I play.)
I wish the Raptor Drive moved juuuuust a little more and didn't lag quite as much.Even so, I find Captain Falcon a great overall play.

 

[goodoldganon]

I agree. He is certainly not great but anyone who says he is the worst character in the game or rock-bottom tier is incorrect in their assessment of him.

If nothing else Key proved this to me tonight. I though C. Falcon was mediocre but he is def rock solid middle-tier quality. People gave up on him once he couldn't combo incredibly well or knee spam like in Melee, but he def has potential. I think Jiggs and Yoshi are the games low tier but I haven't fought a good Yoshi/Jiggs yet.

 

[Z-Magic]

I still main Falcon and I think he'll be middle tier not bottom or low, my friend started playing as falcon today and I asked him why and he said "Falcon is really fun to play as because hes harder to use than using some of the other characters and the Falcon Punch is to cool." but recently I've stopped using Falcon as much but I still main him and Im not giving up on him.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I have been browsing brawl tier and character forums for a while and i have noticed that Captian Falcon has gained the most negative feedback in all of the brawl characters. I also seem to notice that Captain falcon has been loosing matches from wifi vids on youtube.

Now it is too early for any of us to definitively judge him(hell i am still waiting for the european release of Brawl) but this leads be to think that Captain Falcon is either underrated or nerfed horrifically. This is somewhat a bit unfair at a certain point cause all the other people who are fanatically obsessed with their mains(I am talking about noob marth, and newcomer mains) tend to talk bout their characters without realizing their real matchups. At least, CF players here know what they are up against.

Please share your thoughts and comment.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like Captain Falcon, but he's definitely bad in Brawl. Even Ganondorf actually combos and kills better than he does, which goes to show how much the physics engine screws with Falcon. As much as I hate to admit it, he's really the ultimate bland and ineffective character in this game. He doesn't have anything particularly special going for him, set aside running speed which no longer helps him get any godly combo setup.

I mean come on. NO COMBOS. NO RELIABLE KILL MOVES. There are next to no real combos in Brawl due to the way the shielding and air dodging system works, plus there is like no hitstun in Brawl (don't get me wrong, combos exist, but there are only very very few that can be used reliably). Captain Falcon never really had any single attack that could be used by itself as a kill move. He was all about comboing into killers, which he and most other characters can't do in Brawl. Most importantly, you can't combo into the Knee anymore. The reliable attacks that Falcon does have kill at much much higher percentages than average, and Falcon's actual kill moves are all situational to the extreme due to the lack of any combos. His Smash attacks are still too slow, the Knee can't be comboed into, the D-air doesn't meteor reliably, things like that and other attacks that he can land on enemies are generally too weak to actually kill.

His range and priority overall is worse. Noticably, it's harder to grab and land D-airs on opponents, plus you can't L-cancel, so no D-air approaching. You can't approach with the N-air due to the fact the kicks have a more narrow hitbox. Basically, Falcon is a lot worse at approaching.

Captain Falcon still has the worst special attacks in the game....sadly. They improved them in terms of recovery slightly, but that's mostly it. Now he gets no combo setup from the Raptor Boost (which doesn't kill anyway until like past the 200% mark), he can't combo into the Falcon Punch either. He can't do Falcon kick recovery, although it's just a tad better as an attack (I think it has less lag, and slightly more knockback, eh). The only special attack of his which is definitely better without nerfs is the Falcon Dive, which does have more range and power, but not by too much.

What is still good about Falcon is his U-air and B-air. Those are still good attacks. U-air maintains it's good range, and while you can't juggle with it much anymore, it's now more of a very high % kill move (as I said, Falcon's reliable attacks kill at much higher percents than average, while his true kill moves are unreliable). The B-air however has pretty much remained the same in Brawl. Fast, strong, and low lag. The non-sweetspotted Knee causes tripping. Plus, Falcon's U-smash oddly enough is better due to his lower traction so he gets good distance from canceling a Dash with a U-smash, and the two hits land more easily, despite the hitbox being overall smaller. Stutter stepping helps improve Falcon's F-smash to a minor degree. Plus, I personally think that Falcon's jab combo is better. While doing the Gentlemen is now pointless, the rapid punch combo lands a lot more effectively which can get you a free 20% on the enemy.

Still, he doesn't have anything really special going for him, and he lost essentially everything which made him good the previous games.

 

[Iwan]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like Captain Falcon, but he's definitely bad in Brawl. Even Ganondorf actually combos and kills better than he does, which goes to show how much the physics engine screws with Falcon. As much as I hate to admit it, he's really the ultimate bland and ineffective character in this game. He doesn't have anything particularly special going for him, set aside running speed which no longer helps him get any godly combo setup.

I mean come on. NO COMBOS. NO RELIABLE KILL MOVES. There are next to no real combos in Brawl due to the way the shielding and air dodging system works, plus there is like no hitstun in Brawl (don't get me wrong, combos exist, but there are only very very few that can be used reliably). Captain Falcon never really had any single attack that could be used by itself as a kill move. He was all about comboing into killers, which he and most other characters can't do in Brawl. Most importantly, you can't combo into the Knee anymore. The reliable attacks that Falcon does have kill at much much higher percentages than average, and Falcon's actual kill moves are all situational to the extreme due to the lack of any combos. His Smash attacks are still too slow, the Knee can't be comboed into, the D-air doesn't meteor reliably, things like that and other attacks that he can land on enemies are generally too weak to actually kill.

His range and priority overall is worse. Noticably, it's harder to grab and land D-airs on opponents, plus you can't L-cancel, so no D-air approaching. You can't approach with the N-air due to the fact the kicks have a more narrow hitbox. Basically, Falcon is a lot worse at approaching.

Captain Falcon still has the worst special attacks in the game....sadly. They improved them in terms of recovery slightly, but that's mostly it. Now he gets no combo setup from the Raptor Boost (which doesn't kill anyway until like past the 200% mark), he can't combo into the Falcon Punch either. He can't do Falcon kick recovery, although it's just a tad better as an attack (I think it has less lag, and slightly more knockback, eh). The only special attack of his which is definitely better without nerfs is the Falcon Dive, which does have more range and power, but not by too much.

What is still good about Falcon is his U-air and B-air. Those are still good attacks. U-air maintains it's good range, and while you can't juggle with it much anymore, it's now more of a very high % kill move (as I said, Falcon's reliable attacks kill at much higher percents than average, while his true kill moves are unreliable). The B-air however has pretty much remained the same in Brawl. Fast, strong, and low lag. The non-sweetspotted Knee causes tripping. Plus, Falcon's U-smash oddly enough is better due to his lower traction so he gets good distance from canceling a Dash with a U-smash, and the two hits land more easily, despite the hitbox being overall smaller. Stutter stepping helps improve Falcon's F-smash to a minor degree. Plus, I personally think that Falcon's jab combo is better. While doing the Gentlemen is now pointless, the rapid punch combo lands a lot more effectively which can get you a free 20% on the enemy.

Still, he doesn't have anything really special going for him, and he lost essentially everything which made him good the previous games.

All of your points are good...this was a good post. Falcon definitely does have disadvantages now more than he did in melee.

But he isn't a bad character. I maintain that he's middle tier.

First off...is it just me? Or is he great at off stage ledge guarding? I'll throw out at least two or three up airs when i fight off stage, and it works wonders. His knee is still not anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. The sweet spot isn't hard people...it really isn't. And it can KO very, VERY early. How is that not useful? Especially in brawl where characters dont die until higher percentages? His bair is just as good as it was in melee, and RaRing with it is really, really effective. His smash moves are all strong and reliable....

Along with his disadvantages are also upside. And get this...I DID NOT TOUCH FALCON IN MELEE. Didn't main him, didn't alt him...nothing. I just didn't use him. However, he really can be a good character. And this is coming from someone who's only used him for one week. Some of you are, without question, not giving falcon a chance.

From a casual, pick up and play perspective, he isn't great. But if you reach a deeper level of play and adapt to the kind of play style necessary to main falcon...he is indeed a very viable, and good, character.

 

[IWuvGeno]

First off...is it just me? Or is he great at off stage ledge guarding? I'll throw out at least two or three up airs when i fight off stage, and it works wonders. His knee is still not anywhere near as bad as people make it out to be. The sweet spot isn't hard people...it really isn't. And it can KO very, VERY early. How is that not useful? Especially in brawl where characters dont die until higher percentages? His bair is just as good as it was in melee, and RaRing with it is really, really effective. His smash moves are all strong and reliable....

He has a great recovery, which made me think he had some serious potential in ledge guarding too. I've played some of the best NorCal players though, and this skill has little to no utility against a skilled or even an above-average player. 90% of the time, a person will get knocked up and away from the ledge ... allowing them to airdodge anything you throw at them and then be back in the ready position.


I agree with A2ZOMG, he is definitely low tier (probably not bottom), being one of the most bland fighters in the game. Falcon makes a great secondary character, but has no long-term potential at being a viable character. That is, of course, unless we find some glitches or techniques. I wouldn't count on it though.

 

[Chris is me]

That said, I wish they didn't nerf the falcon kick to the point where it does not kill, even at 999%. That was...kinda depressing.
.

You used the Falcon kick in Melee?

You know what upsets me? When people go "OMG FALCON SUX" and put him below the ****fest Ganondorf when they've never played him. Ganondorf is nerfed to the point of uselessness. Falcon is not; he just isn't as good at combos... or hitting people... or outrunning everything.

He's not the same; what mostly nerfed him wasn't his moves changing, but the physics changing.

 

[KeyKid19]

Yeah I really don't see the Ganondorf > Falcon thing at all. Seriously I've been over this many times in-depth and no one has ever pointed out where my logic was wrong. Ganondorf has the worst recovery in the game; he is pretty much the only character that ever dies from being unable to reach the edge. Seriously almost everyone else in the game can recover from any non-kill trajectory almost with ease. He however is absolutely terrible at recovering. Combine that with easily edgeguarded and you can kill him at 60%. I have also had success edgehogging him, which is pathetic for someone who actually has an attacking UpB.

Anyways I'm not going to keep going because I've done this so many times before. He is a decent ground fighter but in the air he is like a tank (seriously if you imagine a tank in the air that's what he's like).

@ A2ZOMG

There's no real need for the Falcon Kick double jump restore anymore, so not having it doesn't really hurt him at all. And I disagree that his speed isn't an advantage anymore. He can chase almost as good as Sonic and actually has strong moves to back it up. Nair is not a good approach anymore but I still find it useful (especially when people airdodge as you jump out to edgeguard them like IWuvGeno said). His range is bad and his priority is bad on a lot of moves, granted. Air dodging system in Brawl does kill his potential, granted. But his air game is still one of the strongest in the game I think, and that is a big boost. Honestly I very rarely play against a player who is able to do much when he's in the air against me (and I've played many of the Smash Brawl Rankings elite so you can't say that it's because I play crappy people). Some characters do have advantages over Falcon in certain aerial situations (like Marth's Fair when the two of you are next to each other in the air; not much you can do against that since the reach is so good). However the counter to Falcon's general air supremacy is that it's hard to get good players up in the air, and that's certainly true. That's one of the main reasons why Falcon is bad. I agree with you that he is not good, but bad I think is overexaggerating it. He has quite a few BAD matchups and that sucks. However he is still significantly better than the worst characters in Brawl in my opinion so I don't see him as a viable bottom tier character.

 

[Chris is me]

The only people throwing Falcon in Bottom that I've seen are noobs who don't play him (like, 10-posts noobs, as in me). Honestly, he'll be top of Lower or Middle tier. He's not Ganondorf.

By the way, did somebody say Falcon has no reliable kill moves? Are you high? There's this thing he has, you know... the knee...

 

[THEWIIStephen]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I like Captain Falcon, but he's definitely bad in Brawl. Even Ganondorf actually combos and kills better than he does, which goes to show how much the physics engine screws with Falcon. As much as I hate to admit it, he's really the ultimate bland and ineffective character in this game. He doesn't have anything particularly special going for him, set aside running speed which no longer helps him get any godly combo setup.

I mean come on. NO COMBOS. NO RELIABLE KILL MOVES. There are next to no real combos in Brawl due to the way the shielding and air dodging system works, plus there is like no hitstun in Brawl (don't get me wrong, combos exist, but there are only very very few that can be used reliably). Captain Falcon never really had any single attack that could be used by itself as a kill move. He was all about comboing into killers, which he and most other characters can't do in Brawl. Most importantly, you can't combo into the Knee anymore. The reliable attacks that Falcon does have kill at much much higher percentages than average, and Falcon's actual kill moves are all situational to the extreme due to the lack of any combos. His Smash attacks are still too slow, the Knee can't be comboed into, the D-air doesn't meteor reliably, things like that and other attacks that he can land on enemies are generally too weak to actually kill.

His range and priority overall is worse. Noticably, it's harder to grab and land D-airs on opponents, plus you can't L-cancel, so no D-air approaching. You can't approach with the N-air due to the fact the kicks have a more narrow hitbox. Basically, Falcon is a lot worse at approaching.

Captain Falcon still has the worst special attacks in the game....sadly. They improved them in terms of recovery slightly, but that's mostly it. Now he gets no combo setup from the Raptor Boost (which doesn't kill anyway until like past the 200% mark), he can't combo into the Falcon Punch either. He can't do Falcon kick recovery, although it's just a tad better as an attack (I think it has less lag, and slightly more knockback, eh). The only special attack of his which is definitely better without nerfs is the Falcon Dive, which does have more range and power, but not by too much.

What is still good about Falcon is his U-air and B-air. Those are still good attacks. U-air maintains it's good range, and while you can't juggle with it much anymore, it's now more of a very high % kill move (as I said, Falcon's reliable attacks kill at much higher percents than average, while his true kill moves are unreliable). The B-air however has pretty much remained the same in Brawl. Fast, strong, and low lag. The non-sweetspotted Knee causes tripping. Plus, Falcon's U-smash oddly enough is better due to his lower traction so he gets good distance from canceling a Dash with a U-smash, and the two hits land more easily, despite the hitbox being overall smaller. Stutter stepping helps improve Falcon's F-smash to a minor degree. Plus, I personally think that Falcon's jab combo is better. While doing the Gentlemen is now pointless, the rapid punch combo lands a lot more effectively which can get you a free 20% on the enemy.

Still, he doesn't have anything really special going for him, and he lost essentially everything which made him good the previous games.

Ok, you may have some strong points but the game is still young and so give it a year before we can assess him. Who knows, you may be right after all.

 

[THEWIIStephen]

One of those matchups= R.O.B

Seriously...**** those broken, disjointed hit boxes R.O.B has lol .

And to the topic creator: Falcon is still viable, and if played enough with him you can become pretty **** good with him. The air dodging in brawl (see: more than one) has just made the game harder on falcon.

Still, i disagree with him being "one of the worst characters" in the game.
In fact i highly disagree.

Ok, ok slow down. my point with this thread is that many people bash him without considering all of his matchups but i have to agree that he is not one of the worst out there.

 

[Reaver197]

The only people throwing Falcon in Bottom that I've seen are noobs who don't play him (like, 10-posts noobs, as in me). Honestly, he'll be top of Lower or Middle tier. He's not Ganondorf.

By the way, did somebody say Falcon has no reliable kill moves? Are you high? There's this thing he has, you know... the knee...

I think what he meant by reliable kill moves is moves that you, personally, can work to set up for. The knee is no longer a finisher move because you can't ever really chain into it. To utilize it, you really have to wait for the opponent to make a mistake in order to slip it in, which may not happen as often or as soon as you would like in a match. Falcon has the potential to kill at much lower percentages, but I find he often doesn't because he can't really ever land his really powerful attacks on a wary opponent.

 

[KeyKid19]

I think what he meant by reliable kill moves is moves that you, personally, can work to set up for. The knee is no longer a finisher move because you can't ever really chain into it. To utilize it, you really have to wait for the opponent to make a mistake in order to slip it in, which may not happen as often or as soon as you would like in a match. Falcon has the potential to kill at much lower percentages, but I find he often doesn't because he can't really ever land his really powerful attacks on a wary opponent.

QFT. The drop off of kill ability between his kill moves and his non-kill moves is ridiculous, and since you'll usually only be able to hit REALLY good players with your non-kill moves, they can survive up into the 200s% with ease. And when you're in a match against someone who's up that high it's REALLY discouraging, especially if you're about to get 3-stocked.

Falcon is all about mindgames. If you can't mindgame, you are automatically a terrible Falcon player because there's not much else to do. Even his AAA "combo" is not really a combo because it can be broken. lol

Seriously Sakurai needs to make a download patch that doubles hitstun or Brawl will eventually die out competitively.

 

[Phyvo]

</3 Captain Falcon

Seriously Sakurai needs to make a download patch that doubles hitstun or Brawl will eventually die out competitively.

Sakurai put random tripping into the game, mentioned having no ranked online system, and added pity final smashes all in order to curb competition. He's probably not so evil that he'd start dancing if we all go back to Melee, but he certainly cares diddly-squat about balance in the name of competition.

 

[Reaver197]

Yeah, unfortunately, I think Sakurai himself said that he really didn't want Brawl being considered competitive.

Eh, it goes to show too.

 

[Iwan]

Ok, ok slow down. my point with this thread is that many people bash him without considering all of his matchups but i have to agree that he is not one of the worst out there.

Oh, lol i wasn't bashing you or being hostile...haha. Sorry if it seemed that way.

 

[Metro Knight]

I think Falcon is still good, he definitely seems worse, but people saying he is bottom tier, are ********. I can still land the knee, and get kills at 60% on stages like Yoshi's Island, so... I dunno, I think he is fine, just a little nerfed.

 

[KeyKid19]

I think Falcon is still good, he definitely seems worse, but people saying he is bottom tier, are ********. I can still land the knee, and get kills at 60% on stages like Yoshi's Island, so... I dunno, I think he is fine, just a little nerfed.

Campers > Falcon. With no non-punishable approach, you're at the mercy of campers. Especially characters with really spammable projectiles. I certainly don't think Falcon is terrible, but the days of domination are certainly over for him. Probably low, possibly BARELY middle tier.

 

[Medic]

Well, it's hard to get to campers, but if you can...it tends to freak them out and gives you a few seconds of advantage til they adapt again.
Dodging all of Pit's arrows or Snake's...umm....everything...is obnoxious, but it can be done, as we all know. I'd say dodge up til about two body lengths away and then falcon kick to push through to surprise hit them.
So, to sum up, Campers have a ridiculous advantage, but it's not an auto-lose.
>.< Sorry if that seemed obvious.

 

[KeyKid19]

What do you do when you are up against a Fox who spams lasers, then shield grabs or spot dodge -> Smashes every approach you try? There's nothing you can do except wait for them to make a mistake and try and somehow punish them. The best players don't make very many punishable mistakes though, so there goes Falcon getting 3-stocked by Fox/Falco/Wolf/Olimar/etc.

You can fanagle your way through average players who spam, but the better players know what they're doing, and Falcon doesn't have much of a counter to that strategy.

 

[THEWIIStephen]

Oh, lol i wasn't bashing you or being hostile...haha. Sorry if it seemed that way.

Maybe I went a bit too far. Sorry for that

 

[Medic]

What do you do when you are up against a Fox who spams lasers, then shield grabs or spot dodge -> Smashes every approach you try? There's nothing you can do except wait for them to make a mistake and try and somehow punish them. The best players don't make very many punishable mistakes though, so there goes Falcon getting 3-stocked by Fox/Falco/Wolf/Olimar/etc.

You can fanagle your way through average players who spam, but the better players know what they're doing, and Falcon doesn't have much of a counter to that strategy.

Well, granted, it is hard as anything to get past a projectile wall, but it isn't impossible. The odds of success are not exactly high, I'll admit, and it is a huge disadvantage, but it can be done, if you mix some jumping, air dodges, spot dodging and rolls it, followed by a falcon kick or raptor boost, both of which cut through projectiles.
Hopefully, though, those situations where you have to push through that don't happen much. Falcon should manage to avoid most of those situations, but yeah, it is a nasty trap for him.

 

[epic of DE]

Yeah, I have to admit that falcon seems to be a tad bit sedated compared to his melee self. He's not unplayable as the sliding U-smash is a rather nice move and some characters you can D-throw into a sliding U-smash. But the knee in brawl feels a little clunky and sometimes doesn't feel like it has the needed punch behind it. I won't count him out for mid-tier and if people learn to use him in an effective way perhaps low-high tier.

Just please lets not have him be a "well...he's kinda good in 2v2" character

 

[A2ZOMG]

I think Falcon is still good, he definitely seems worse, but people saying he is bottom tier, are ********. I can still land the knee, and get kills at 60% on stages like Yoshi's Island, so... I dunno, I think he is fine, just a little nerfed.

No, you can't reliably land the knee. If you're landing the knee, your opponent is doing things wrong.

In Melee, you could land the knee if your opponent screwed up, OR if you comboed into it.

In Brawl, you have to wait for your opponent to screw up. Nothing else. It's like landing the Melee Bowser F-smash this time around. Which of course sucked back then.

Captain Falcon can't approach either, and his defensive options are terrible. He's terrible in these fields because one, his grab range sucks, so he can't shieldgrab much at all. Two, his priority sucks, which speaks for itself. Three, his ATTACK speed is significantly slower than average, which especially sucks when you consider the fact there is almost no hitstun in Brawl, and the nature of shielding. Things like his N-air also, it can't hit people on the ground reliably because the hitboxes for it have really short duration. His "combo" options by far are also much worse that other characters due to a combination of factors like these.

I'll say it again because I've played both characters. Ganondorf is actually better than Captain Falcon. He combos better than Falcon. Plus, he actually can kill with his fast attacks, and he doesn't really suffer from significantly more startup lag than Falcon. EVERYONE here including me agrees Ganondorf is terrible though. Ganondorf unlike Falcon can actually approach reasonably to an extent too. See here, Ganon actually has at least one GOOD attack (Forward B, the F-tilt and Jab arguably aren't too far behind), while Falcon doesn't really have any GOOD attacks to make him unique or shine in any way.

You see, people automatically just think Ganon is worse because he appears much slower (and mind you, kill strength matters more in Brawl than in Melee). Yes he runs slower, but his attack speed really isn't that much different. Okay, if he whiffs an aerial attack, he has noticably more lag. But anyhow, he can autocancel D-airs just like Falcon, and nobody will deny that is ownage.

The ONLY thing Falcon actually has going for him is running speed. He has no good moves and only a few OK moves with which to hit people with. Mind you, running speed didn't make Pichu or Pikachu good at all in Melee.

 

[Metro Knight]

I think if you have a good dodge game, you can still have a decent approach.

I think I agree with the low/middle tier comment. Falcon seems very nerfed, but not the worst.

 

[Reaver197]

Yeah, I have to admit that falcon seems to be a tad bit sedated compared to his melee self.

A tad bit sedated? More like drugged with elephant tranquilizers.

But, yeah, A2 has touched upon the reason why Falcon is viewed as being low tier, not that I think he is (nor do I particularly care too much). Let's just say you're completely neutral to the fact that he's Captain motherf'n Falcon (which, apparently, is possible to be though I don't understand it), and you're trying to decide which one out of all the characters you would want to play as. Captain Falcon would probably glossed over since he doesn't really offer any unique strength that other character's don't have, or even have better. There is no real, strong defining quality to Falcon in Brawl that would make him stand out.

So, which brings me to say that the tier list is a compilation of how well people do with a character in tournaments, and also how many people play that character.

 

[Jawsh!]

I have a hard time finding too many flaws I can't control with Falcon. I suppose it helps to start out as a Ganon main, then switch over. It helps you grasp the concept you should be playing with, then gives you a little speed boost. It makes Falcon a little easier to play, in my opinion.

 

[gammonwalker]

Captain Failcon

Everything you heard is true.

All of his ground moves are simply too ****ing slow for how much knockback he has. Bowser has better ground game than Falcon does. Pit's fsmash does 20 dmg, comes out almost instantly, kills about as well, vacuums, has good priority, clashes well, AND hits behind him.

He has the worst dash in the game. It goes too far and doesn't allow for many mind games. His throws are bad, you rarely can combo from them and they certainly can't kill.

His air attacks are little to no threat vs grounded characters, unless they are huge. His nair blows. Shield throw owns him.

His knee is nerfed horribly. I don't wanna hear, "Get used to its sweetspot," "The timing is different," BULL**** because it's simply bad. When characters, like Zelda, can do their fair and it **** 20x more easily, that is just absurd. It doesn't kill at even 100% on occasion, which is EMBARASSING for how hard it is to hit. The game laughs at you every time you use it when Mr. Game and Watch can kill at 96% with his fmash.

His recovery is bad. He can be gimped too easily by most characters.

I used to have a positive outlook on Falcon, but I changed my mind. He is garbage. The positive side is... HIS DASH ATTACK GOT BUFFED!!!

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mr. Game and Watch can kill at 96% with his fmash

Just saying, I thought it was lower than that. More in the 60-80% range depending on character IIRC. G&W is mega strong in Brawl.

Or is that really uncharged kill percent on Mario from center of FD? If so, my bad.

 

[gammonwalker]

Yeh, I'm talking on average. Not the optimal, "OMG that is broken," potential that it has.

 

[KeyKid19]

Everything you heard is true.

All of his ground moves are simply too ****ing slow for how much knockback he has. Bowser has better ground game than Falcon does. Pit's fsmash does 20 dmg, comes out almost instantly, kills about as well, vacuums, has good priority, clashes well, AND hits behind him.

He has the worst dash in the game. It goes too far and doesn't allow for many mind games. His throws are bad, you rarely can combo from them and they certainly can't kill.

His air attacks are little to no threat vs grounded characters, unless they are huge. His nair blows. Shield throw owns him.

His knee is nerfed horribly. I don't wanna hear, "Get used to its sweetspot," "The timing is different," BULL**** because it's simply bad. When characters, like Zelda, can do their fair and it **** 20x more easily, that is just absurd. It doesn't kill at even 100% on occasion, which is EMBARASSING for how hard it is to hit. The game laughs at you every time you use it when Mr. Game and Watch can kill at 96% with his fmash.

His recovery is bad. He can be gimped too easily by most characters.

I used to have a positive outlook on Falcon, but I changed my mind. He is garbage. The positive side is... HIS DASH ATTACK GOT BUFFED!!!

I agree with all of that. Except about the recovery. I've never had my recovery gimped and I've played against many different people including pro players in Wi-Fi matches. Sure you can get punished if you use Raptor Boost as a recovery constantly but honestly Falcon Dive is a great recovery move. The new auto-sweetspot from below really makes it easy for him to recover.

Otherwise your assessment is pretty legit. He is not very good but I still have fun with him and still win enough to satisfy my competitive side. Of course that's just because I have to work my *** off against people now, whereas in Melee I could have a combined advantage of good character + good tactics. Now it's just tactics and working around character flaws unfortunately. Seriously with Falcon I have to go balls to the wall against n00bs if they pick the right character and know a couple good moves. That's sad. But I still have a blast with him.