Need Some Counter Camping Tips

[Dragoon Fighter]

Me and My brother play a lot of melee now granted he is not very good but he has discovered a strategy that is annoying me and even allowed him to win as I am not used to this style of play.

Camping

Now as are matches are non-tournement and I am not going to ban camping in my house (Because I play Kirby and he Still to this day occasional falls for my ledge camp Only really use if he is on last stock or I am significantly ahead, that and it is hard to stay neutral during a match.) So What I want is Camp and Counter-camping strategy and tips, I know that melee is much more than that (lol Brawl) but I wish to continue wining though this camping phase and (hopefully) he will switch to a new strategy if camping does not help him.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Kanelol]

for one you could play a character that can actually be offensive

 

[Pi]

Which character does he play?

some general tips:
Watch for his double jumps
Watch for his patterns, if you see him jumping, then landing, try to intercept his next jump
If he's camping with projectiles, powershielding can be effective. Also remember that projectiles (not lasers though) have low priority so you can slash through them.
If he's camping with lasers, close distance and make him uncomfortable, then see how he reacts. He can't camp if you're in his face, get in his face safely then see what he does and react to it, or learn it and do something pre-emptive. Ex. Once you close distance, he rolls behind you, read the roll & punish him, then follow up. Or if he tries to DJ over you, either anticipate the jump and intercept the first one, or follow where he jumps too.

Depending on the character he plays there are some more specific strategies

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Wait. You're Kirby? Steal his lazorz and camp right back. Nothing outcamps a Kirby with a gun.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Kirby is like the 2nd easiest thing ever to camp. You can't really beat him no matter how good you are. i'm geussing they aren't links right?

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Which character does he play?

some general tips:
Watch for his double jumps
Watch for his patterns, if you see him jumping, then landing, try to intercept his next jump
If he's camping with projectiles, powershielding can be effective. Also remember that projectiles (not lasers though) have low priority so you can slash through them.
If he's camping with lasers, close distance and make him uncomfortable, then see how he reacts. He can't camp if you're in his face, get in his face safely then see what he does and react to it, or learn it and do something pre-emptive. Ex. Once you close distance, he rolls behind you, read the roll & punish him, then follow up. Or if he tries to DJ over you, either anticipate the jump and intercept the first one, or follow where he jumps too.

Depending on the character he plays there are some more specific strategies

Actually general tips would be more helpful because he jumps around form character to character there are certain people he picks more frequently but he has not decided on his main yet.

Kirby is like the 2nd easiest thing ever to camp. You can't really beat him no matter how good you are. i'm geussing they aren't links right?

So If he is going to camp I can't play kirby ? Fine , would shiek or Mr.Game and Watch be a better option (hopefully Mr.Game and Watch over shiek because his nair is deceptively fun.) Also ICG I do not understand your question can you clarify do you mean computer links or SSBM Link ether way the answer is no. Thank you ICG and knihT for helping me out.

 

[Pi]

Well like I said, if he's camping you with projectiles, close distance via powershielding, shielding & wavedashing out of it, you can jump over them if you feel safe, but just make sure you're being safe about it.

If he's not using projectiles, but just spamming 1 move 'safely', then realize that there are flaws to that strategy, it's predictable. Melee is too fast for him to reactively punish your approaches, so he's going to have to guess and/or spam. Learn the patterns he falls into, is he jumping, double jumping, is he using platforms. Find out when he lands, and when he goes airborne, that's when he's vulnerable. Don't get anxious, position yourself so as not to cause him to go defensive, but in a position to catch him when he's vulnerable.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

if he is playing as like links/marios and projectileing you to death you may still be able to win however i've camped kirby to death as pichu and there was nothing kirby could've done.

but fox lasering you on DL64 or m2 on any stage teleporting around is impossible to deal with as kirby.

 

[Zodiac]

Yea, kirby is utter crap, he's really hard to be good with. I use him from time to time to, but if you must use low tier, use someone with a projectile that can counter the camping

 

[4 Aces]

Crouching might get you below some lasers...Idk, that's all I know about Kirby.

 

[Pi]

Kirby has so few options.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

double lasers still hit kirby if he SHs or ducks. also I like to camp kirbys because i believe he's overhyped annd easy tactics can easily beat him.

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Who's overhyping Kirby? Everyone says he's horrible. Is that giving him too much credit?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

people say kirby>pichu he is way over hyped indeed.

I mean as of right now I right i've covered every option sheik has for an idea for grab even death for pichu(pichu grabs sheik). Pichu is mad underrated and I think I may be able to punish sheik worse than sheik can punish pichu. I still need more testingbut if it works I'll CP sheiks with pichu so sheilding is a bad mistakes same for approaching.

I've tryed out tactics with kirby but he isn't fast enough to work with anything really.

 

[NJzFinest]

You think you can punish Sheiks better then Sheiks can punish your Pichu?

Who the hell are you testing **** on?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

No i'm totally for real about this. pichu's d-throw to sheild covers every single tech option sheik has, if you understood pichu you would easily be able to think about why i'm right or disargee about sheik's di away into tech away.

sheik techs to the right/left pichu up-Bs after sheik into another grab.

sheik DIs hard to the side and techs that way pichu WDs out of sheild to that di and keeps sheilding to react(only at higher percents)

sheik trys to jump out at over 60% pichu upairs sheik to death no more jumps for sheik and will end up knocking sheik off the edge to easy edge gaurd. also upair outranges ALL of sheik's air game.

air dodge out lag is easy enough to see and react to for pichu to grab again.

doesn't tech and attacks(I sheild so I don't jab reset to sdi out to live) sheild grab.

doesn't tech to side roll up-B after run towards sheik.

sheik goes to edge and dis off the edge f-smash prediction will kill sheik or if sheik waits WD on to the edge to easy edge gaurd. Only time you need to predict sheik and sheik's options are VERY limited and a mistake will cost sheik sheik's life.

If you tech chase all the way to 60% near edge upthrow dair to easy edge gaurd.

mid stage keep going a little bit longer till maybe 70ish % to b-throw jolt to more pressure. so it will end up doing roughly 90% from a graba nd mayb eedge gaurd. so nair should be able to knock sheik off the edge if sheikisn't edge gaurded right away.

I thought this up in my sleep and I've taken ALL the frame data into acount like human reaction time and how far sheik's tech is 16.2 feet/ 11.2 ff non teched. as long as that isn't as long as YS(whole stage) i'm good. sheik can chain throw pichu roughly up to 60% depending on di/mistakes/jumping out to f-tilt fair however this is NEVER a kill other than on like YS or any other uber small stage. maybe if pichu dis bad or makes recovery error.

reaction seems very possible. more testing will be needed of course but this seem like a VERY carefully placed idea. however mostly because sheik's techs are so long is the main reason this seems like it will work. but vs like falcon this would fail.

 

[ranmaru]

Hmmm, camp back. (for example, if you are ahead, just time him out. LOL (but don't forget about super sudden death tie breaker)

Or just STOP. Don't do a thing, he will have to approach. Then, miss his attack and punish. I found that helps ALOT when someone camps and counters your approach.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Hmmm, camp back. (for example, if you are ahead, just time him out. LOL (but don't forget about super sudden death tie breaker)

Or just STOP. Don't do a thing, he will have to approach. Then, miss his attack and punish. I found that helps ALOT when someone camps and counters your approach.

I don't think you have a clue what your talking about fox can just laser you up to 999% and win when the clock goes out you can't out camp him nor most of the cast. i've clocked out bunbun as pichu WTF are you going to do about fox?

 

[ranmaru]

I don't think you have a clue what your talking about fox can just laser you up to 999% and win when the clock goes out you can't out camp him nor most of the cast. i've clocked out bunbun as pichu WTF are you going to do about fox?

Not pick FD lol. First step. Two, get on a platform.

Anyways he wanted general advice. It's worked for me. Not against fox. But, I'd suggest for you to show him how to get better, that way he doesn't have to resort to camping.

Usually when I'm in a pinch I try to TRY HARDER. ;P

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

why do you NEED skill to beat kirby? ban Ys/FoDs and camp kirby's nuts off. WTf go m2 teleport camp him to be unbarable.

 

[NJzFinest]

if you understood pichu

My Pichu is infinitely better than yours.

Stop playing with your little brother.

 

[The Star King]

My Pichu is infinitely better than yours.

Stop playing with your little brother.

Looks like things might get a little heated. Who knew that comparing Pichus was such serious business?

 

[NJzFinest]

Yup, the amount of effort I put in my post obviously shows that :D

 

[ranmaru]

Omg infinite d:. Icg is doomed. : [

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i'm doomed? It is I who chooses to be doomed or not to be doomed sir. My brother is getting better with I think is funny that any more I play more space animals than anything esle any more and i'm getting better at gimps, combo, edge gaurd and etc. to the point if I b-throw my brother's falco as fox is is die off the edge if he side-Bs he is shinedup-B smashed. However my pichu is STILL worlds better than my space animals he stuggles with my pichu so much even if he's used to fighting it. I just play extremely smart as pichu. He knows he's f***ed when I land an upair/grab

 

[Jim Morrison]

But I'll just upsmash your Pichu at 75% and you die.

 

[NJzFinest]

I just play extremely smart as pichu.

Stop getting 4stocked by everyone at the few tourneys you attend. Especially by other Pichus from non-Pichu mains.

He knows he's f***ed when I land an upair/grab

Cause he's t3h suckz :D

 

[JPOBS]

ICG, if the only person you play is your brother, i think you need to stop theorycrafting and posting it here like what you're saying works on real players :/

 

[ranmaru]

ICG, what tournies have you been to? Go to ROM3.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

ICG, if the only person you play is your brother, i think you need to stop theorycrafting and posting it here like what you're saying works on real players :/

I when to a tournment today and yes my f***ed up theory caft worked ducking under gannon's grab into up-smash and edge gaurding space animals with side-B was ****. I test my ideas very well and I know when I can get away with ******** things even as fox like after instence lasering And movement against peach I walked up and started f-tiklting peach so peach couldn't hot me and peach was forced to keep reseting herself from my CPU like f-tilts and then I when into with SHFFLs I when even with everyone I played aggainst if not better and about most of my skill came from theory.

 

[ranmaru]

NAME this tourny, NOW.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=275321

my last post on the thread was before your post so that's enough proof. I love fighting against jigglypuffs. I know I lived to 149% on battlefeild vs a gannondorf.

 

[ranmaru]

Ah ok, kool dude. Keep getting that experience. : D And I will too haha. I like figthing jiggs too, actually. It's a challenge, but I am willing to fight that battle.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

My pichu is like full of protein but need to level up to max it out.

i'm thinking beyond the level I play at and I still underrate myself far to much.

 

[ranmaru]

True... Well shouldn't we get back on topic? Sorry about, op.

 

[NJzFinest]

So, you tested it at a Brawl tourney?

Good work, especially when the Brawl players in that area are known for being immensely uneducated about competitive Melee.

 

[ranmaru]

Lol, well if you want a theory to work, then trying it on brawlers who know nothing about melee. Easy as pie.

 

[NJzFinest]

I guess I'll make one post for Dragoon lol

So If he is going to camp I can't play kirby ? Fine , would shiek or Mr.Game and Watch be a better option (hopefully Mr.Game and Watch over shiek because his nair is deceptively fun.) Also ICG I do not understand your question can you clarify do you mean computer links or SSBM Link ether way the answer is no. Thank you ICG and knihT for helping me out.

Yeah, Kirby is one of the easiest to camp.

Sheik has needle camping, good mobility (including the ability to duck), safe approaches, good range, great sheild, and ledge stalling to help with camping and countercamping.

GnW's terrible roll and sheild definitely don't help. However, he at least has good ranged moves (ex. fair and tilt) and decent speed to help him keep up with an opponent (moreso then kirby) to prevent being camped. As for him camping others, all he can really do is space fairs and wavedash back-> dtilt since repetitive safe spacing is a variant of camping.
In short, he's not as bad as Kirby.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

You fail. I've been to a brawl tournment before and fought a fox 3x more techical than I am. Also the people I played played both games and that falco combo ***** me for the most part. there was like 2 players that didn't know what's up.

 

[NJzFinest]

You fail. I've been to a brawl tournment before and fought a fox 3x more techical than I am.

Does that make them good Foxes?

Also the people I played played both games

My little sister plays both games.


I know the Brawl and Melee Midwest players lol. No one actually good at Melee was there.