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Need Math Help?

Kason Birdman

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well now that school is back looks like i will be frequenting this thread again lol.

so, anyone want to help me with some grade 12 physics?

A dog looking out a kitchen window sees a bone sail up and then back past the 2.00 m high window. If the total time the bone is in sight is 0.500 s, calculate the height above the window that the bone rises.


wtf?
 

Corpsecreate

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lol that question sounds awesome. It also sounds difficult :/

I havent done questions like this in ages but i think the answer is 2.34m or exactly 73441/31360.

Assumptions made:

1. The dog is not looking through the window on an angle.
2. The bone is going directly upwards.
3. The shape of the bone is an infinitesimally small dot.
4. There is no air resistance.
5. The acceleration of gravity is 9.8 metres per second per second.
 

Kason Birdman

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lol that question sounds awesome. It also sounds difficult :/

I havent done questions like this in ages but i think the answer is 2.34m or exactly 73441/31360.

Assumptions made:

1. The dog is not looking through the window on an angle.
2. The bone is going directly upwards.
3. The shape of the bone is an infinitesimally small dot.
4. There is no air resistance.
5. The acceleration of gravity is 9.8 metres per second per second.
thanks man :)



lolololol number 3
 

Corpsecreate

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I did it like this:

You know that the path follows the shape of a symmetrical parabola, which would mean that the total view time of 0.5s would be 0.25s going up and 0.25s going down. We also know the window is 2m high. With this much information we have 3 values:

s = 2m
t = 0.25s
a = -9.8m/s^2


I then used the formula s = 0.5*(u+v)*t and plugged in the values. 2 = (1/8)*(u+v). From this I get (u+v) = 16 and so v = 16-u.

Then I used the formula v = u + at and substituted 16-u in for v. 16-u = u - (1/4)*9.8. After solving this for u and v I get:

u = 9.225 m/s
v = 6.775 m/s


now we have u which means we can get the maximum height attained. Maximum height = u^2 / 19.6 = 4.34m. The window was 2m tall so it went 2.34m above the window and the bone was above the window 73.4% of the time.

And I just realised I could have solved the answer in one step using s = ut + 0.5*at^2.

Max Height = (s-0.5*at^2)^2/2at^2 = 136161/31360 = 4.34m
 

Kason Birdman

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what does u represent? its instantaneous speed at a point? or what?

and thats interesting. I did it like this:

time is 0.25 s because of what you said
acceleration is blah blah
the window is 2 m high (maybe you misunderstood this, the total height of the window from top to bottom is 2 m, did you think the window was 2 m off ground level? actually nah i dont think you did)

so i first calculated the bones average speed while it was travelling past the window. v = d/t and got 8 m/s which means at 1 m it would be travelling 8 m/s because its the average speed for the distance of the window and the window is 2 m.

then i calced v2^2 = v1^2 + 2ad and got d then subtracted 2 m to get how high it went above the window. i think your way might be more right/accurate, cause im iffy about the whole bone travelling at 8 m/s after 1 m of the window thing.
 

Corpsecreate

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u represents the initial speed of the bone the instant it is in view.

I understood you meant the window is 2m high not 2m off the ground. 2m off the ground would make the question unsolvable with the given information.

You are a little bit confused about the 8m/s at the 1m point and that is the reason your answer is different to mine. 8m/s is the average speed, which means that the half way point in TIME will be going 8m/s NOT the half way point in DISTANCE. In other words, 0.125s after the bone is in view, the bone is moving at 8m/s and 0.125s does NOT correspond to the half way point of the window. This is because the relationship between distance and time follows a quadratic, it is not a linear relationship.

This can be demonstrated using my numbers and 2 formulas. With u = 9.225:

v = u + at
v = 9.225 - 9.8*0.125 = 8m/s

This confirms that 0.125s after it is in view the bone is moving at 8m/s but is it at the 1m point?

s = ut + 0.5*at^2
s = 9.225*0.125 - 0.5*9.8*0.125^2 = 1.0765625

So 0.125s after going past the window it is actually 1.077m above the window. Using this as your calculation for your max height gives...

Max Height = u^2 / 2a
Max Height = 64 / 19.6 = 3.2653m

Take off the remainder.

Height above window = 3.2653-(2-1.0765625) = 2.3418m

And you get the same answer I got.
 

Kason Birdman

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u represents the initial speed of the bone the instant it is in view.

I understood you meant the window is 2m high not 2m off the ground. 2m off the ground would make the question unsolvable with the given information.

You are a little bit confused about the 8m/s at the 1m point and that is the reason your answer is different to mine. 8m/s is the average speed, which means that the half way point in TIME will be going 8m/s NOT the half way point in DISTANCE. In other words, 0.125s after the bone is in view, the bone is moving at 8m/s and 0.125s does NOT correspond to the half way point of the window. This is because the relationship between distance and time follows a quadratic, it is not a linear relationship.

This can be demonstrated using my numbers and 2 formulas. With u = 9.225:

v = u + at
v = 9.225 - 9.8*0.125 = 8m/s

This confirms that 0.125s after it is in view the bone is moving at 8m/s but is it at the 1m point?

s = ut + 0.5*at^2
s = 9.225*0.125 - 0.5*9.8*0.125^2 = 1.0765625

So 0.125s after going past the window it is actually 1.077m above the window. Using this as your calculation for your max height gives...

Max Height = u^2 / 2a
Max Height = 64 / 19.6 = 3.2653m

Take off the remainder.

Height above window = 3.2653-(2-1.0765625) = 2.3418m

And you get the same answer I got.
ah wow this helps so much thank you very much!
 

global-wolf

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Hey guys, I'm having some trouble with my trigonometry homework. The problem in question is this:

sin(2x)sinx=cosx, find the solutions within 0 </= x </= 2pi.

Any help would be very appreciated!
 
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lol I thought this thread died.

2 questions. Does anyone have enough background to do triple integrals in spherical coordinates? And, does anyone know of any other spiffy short cuts like doing implicit differentiation with partial derivatives?

For the 2nd thing, I mean something like this.
Take dy/dx of
y^2 - x^2 - sin(xy) = 0

With partial derivatives you get, dy/dx = -(∂f/∂x) / (∂f/∂y)

So with the quick calculation, (∂f/∂x) = -2x - ycos(xy) AND (∂f/∂y) = 2y - xcos(xy)
Then, dy/dx = { 2x + ycos(xy) } / { 2y - xcos(xy) }
 

Corpsecreate

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Ive done triple integrals in spherical coordinates before... I wouldn't say I'm good at them though :)

And I've never seen that shortcut with partial derivatives. It looks like a really nice shortcut!
 
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I'm a little confused as exactly to why it works, but here is the explanation I got.

Let f(x,y) be differentiable, and f(x,y) = 0.

f(x,y) = 0 defines y implicity as a differentiable function of x (such as y = h(x) ).
So, since f(x,y)= 0, the derivative with respect to x must be 0 as well.

Now, by taking that chain rule from partial derivatives to solve the derivative of a function dependent on two variables, you get this.

0 = d f(x,y)/ dx = (∂f/∂x) * (dx/dx) + (∂f/dy) * (dy/dx)

So with a bit of moving around, you get that equation I mentioned earlier. The bit I do not follow is why f(x,y) = 0 should take to mean that y can be made as a function of x.

Yeah, I mentioned spherical coordinates because a lot of people I talk too mentioned that they get to be rather ugly. So I started looking a bit of ahead to take a crack at them.
 
D

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ugh spherical coordinates. well at least you're not asking about flux integrals :p.
but really, if you know circle/radial coordinates on double integrals it doesn't change that much.
 

global-wolf

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How would you go about finding the solutions for
sin(2x)sinx=cosx
and
squarerootof3(sinx)+cosx=1?

Especially the first one, I have absolutely no idea what to do with that. Every step has to be shown. I'd just like it if someone pointed me in the general direction of what to do, and it'd be really nice if I could get a reply before 6am EST tomorrow. But if not that's fine too.
 

Corpsecreate

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sin(2x) * sin(x) = cos(x)

--> 2sin(x)*cos(x)*sin(x) = cos(x)
--> 2sin(x)*sin(x) = 1
--> 2(sin(x))^2 = 1
--> (sin(x))^2 = 1/2
--> sin(x) = +- sqrt(2)/2
--> x = sin^-1(sqrt2/2)
--> x = pi/4, 3pi/4, 5pi/4, 7pi/4.

The second question is a lot harder imo
 
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"squarerootof3(sinx)+cosx=1?"

Could you rewrite that? Its a bit confusing in the current notation. I mean, is it the quantity of (3sin(x)+cos(x)) that is being taken to the 1/2 power? Or do you mean the square root of only (3sin(x)).

Edit:

Oh, I found a half angle formula that might help for this one if I am reading it right.

1 = cos(x) + sin(x) * (3)^(1/2)
1 - cos(x) =
sin(x) * (3)^(1/2)
{1- cos(x)} / sin(x) =
(3)^(1/2)

The half angle formula I found is {1 - cos(x)}/ sin(x) is the same as tan (0.5x)

So, tan(0.5x) = the square root of 3
Let 0.5x = y

tan(y) = the square root of 3
Whenever y is 60 degrees (pi/3) or 240 degrees (4pi/3)

So, 0.5x = pi/3 and 0.5x = 4pi/3
x = 2pi/3 and 8pi/3

ugh spherical coordinates. well at least you're not asking about flux integrals :p.
but really, if you know circle/radial coordinates on double integrals it doesn't change that much.
Well, I won't have to do that for quiet some time. I have to get through extreme values, saddle points, Lagrange multipliers, then finally move onto the junk involving double integrals and triple integrals.

Also, I had an actual question this time lol

(x^2)^(-1/2) = (x^(-1/2))^2 = | x |
This statement is true no matter how you go about doing it correct?
 

global-wolf

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"squarerootof3(sinx)+cosx=1?"

Could you rewrite that? Its a bit confusing in the current notation. I mean, is it the quantity of (3sin(x)+cos(x)) that is being taken to the 1/2 power? Or do you mean the square root of only (3sin(x)).

Edit:

Oh, I found a half angle formula that might help for this one if I am reading it right.

1 = cos(x) + sin(x) * (3)^(1/2)
1 - cos(x) =
sin(x) * (3)^(1/2)
{1- cos(x)} / sin(x) =
(3)^(1/2)

The half angle formula I found is {1 - cos(x)}/ sin(x) is the same as tan (0.5x)

So, tan(0.5x) = the square root of 3
Let 0.5x = y

tan(y) = the square root of 3
Whenever y is 60 degrees (pi/3) or 240 degrees (4pi/3)

So, 0.5x = pi/3 and 0.5x = 4pi/3
x = 2pi/3 and 8pi/3
I meant the square root of 3, all that times sinx, then all of that plus cosx. What I ended up doing was squaring the whole left side, and I already forgot what exactly I did/what answer I got. :urg: I hope it was right....

Edit: I just did it again and I got what you did. I hope it's what I wrote down. Thanks :)
 

Grandeza

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If you flip a fair coin 100 times, what are the chances of getting tails 6 times in a row during those 100 tosses.

This is probably pretty easy but hopefully someone can help me.
 

Corpsecreate

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EDIT: This question is actually harder than it first seems.

EDIT2: After spending a little time on it I managed to generalise the result.

Let N = number of flips
Let R = number to get in a row

With N flips there are 2^N combinations. Of these 2^N, there are some combinations that contain R successes in a row. The number of combinations n(R) that have R successes in a row is calculated as:

n(R) = SUMMATION(start X = R, end X = N) [ N! / (X! (N-X)!) ]

Probability = n(R)/2^N

In your case, N = 100, R = 6. Probability = 1

EDIT3: On third thought, this isnt correct either. Maybe someone else can try this question, I suck at probability ;(

Now I'm getting an answer of 77.6%...

EDIT4: This question is ****ing hard...

EDIT5: Ok, I created an iterative algorithm and I believe the answer is exactly 75%
 
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Okay, I got bored and plotted out the total combinations for number of coin tosses from 1-5.

The total combinations of two tails in a row was 0,1,3,8,19
The total combinations of three tails in a row was 0,0,1,3,8
The total combinations of four tails in a row was 0,0,0,1,3
The total combinations of five tails in a row was 0,0,0,0,1

The first # is for a single toss, the 2nd is for two tosses etc.

My guess is that all X tails in a row will follow that sequence of 1,3,8,19, etc. Only the first number it can start on is the 6th toss. So, you would have to take the 95th number in the sequence of 1,3,8,19,... to find the total combinations of 6 tails in a row. With that number, divide by total number of all possible combinations for probability. Although, what that sequence is I cannot find one that fits it with so few numbers.
 

Corpsecreate

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You are getting similar to what I got. I got a sequence of 0, 1, 3, 8, 20 however.

The pattern I see is that the next number is two times the previous number + 1, +2, +4, + 8... so on.

3 = 2*1 + 1
8 = 2*3 + 2
20 = 2*16 + 4
48 = 2*20 + 8
...

T_(n+1) = 1/2 (4T_n + 2^(n)) , T_0 = 1
 

Cathy

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If you flip a fair coin 100 times, what are the chances of getting tails 6 times in a row during those 100 tosses.

This is probably pretty easy but hopefully someone can help me.
It's not easy. I thought about it for a while and came up with the correct answer, but I would not characterise it as easy. I'll start by noting you can find the answer here but that doesn't really offer any insight into where it comes from (and I couldn't find an explanation anywhere).

The following is how I worked out the answer, but there may be a simpler way to think of it.

Denote the number of ways to get N tails in a row in A flips by f(A). Obviously, if we flip the coin fewer than N times, there's no chance of getting N tails, so f(A)=0 for A<N. Also obvious is that for A=N, there's exactly one way to do it, so f(N)=1.

Suppose we know the value of f(V) for some V>N. Now what is f(V+1)? Well, we are just adding a flip to the end, which can come up either tails or heads, so each of the ways in f(V) counts twice -- once with a tail at the end and once with a head at the end. But that's not all because there are some positions of V flips where:
(1) there were N-1 tails at the end; and
(2) nowhere in the position were there N tails in a row
Each of those positions of V flips gives rise to one position of V+1 flips where there are N tails in a row because adding one more tail to the end makes it N rather than N-1 tails. Note that condition (2) is important because otherwise we will double count positions that contain N tails in a row.

I will denote the "number of ways of flipping a coin V times such that (1) the last N-1 flips are all tails and (2) nowhere in the V flips are there N tails in a row" by Q(V).

So putting that together, f(V+1) = 2 * f(V) + Q(V)

But what is Q(V)? Well, we know that out of the V flips, the last N flips are fixed: the last N-1 flips have to be tails, and the flip before the tails has to be a head, because otherwise there would be N tails in a row, which would violate condition (2) and mean it's not actually in Q(V). So N flips are fixed which leaves V-N flips free. If those free flips could be totally anything, there would be 2^(V-N) total positions. But in those V-N flips, there can't be N tails in a row. By definition, there are f(V-N) ways of getting N tails in a row in V-N flips, which we have to subtract off.

Therefore, Q(V) = 2^(V-N) - f(V-N).

It turns out that Q(V) is precisely the definition of the V-th Fibonacci N-step number, which is where the formula on that page comes from.

So now we have the following recurrence relation:
f(A) = 0 for A < N,
f(A) = 1 for A = N,
f(A) = 2 * f(A - 1) + Q(A - 1),
Q(V) = 0 for A < N, and
Q(V) = 2^(V-N) - f(V-N) for A >= N.

Using the recurrence relation, you can evaluate f(A) using a computer program or a spreadsheet. And of course, the answer to the original problem is f(100)/2^100 where N=6. The exact answer is 692255904222999797557597756576/2^100.0. This turns out to be approximately 54.61%.


Note that the answer is not 75%. If you mistakenly double count positions where "the last N-1 flips are tails and N tails in a row occurs somewhere", then you will get 75%. In other words, if you incorrectly define Q(V) to be 2^(V-N), then you will get 75%, but it's wrong.
 

Corpsecreate

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You certainly look like you know what your talking about :)

What does V refer to above? I'm having a little trouble inputting the above relation into a spreadsheet. What value do you get for f(9) with N = 6 and f(8) with N = 6?
 

T-block

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sin(2x) * sin(x) = cos(x)

--> 2sin(x)*cos(x)*sin(x) = cos(x)
--> 2sin(x)*sin(x) = 1
--> 2(sin(x))^2 = 1
--> (sin(x))^2 = 1/2
--> sin(x) = +- sqrt(2)/2
--> x = sin^-1(sqrt2/2)
--> x = pi/4, 3pi/4, 5pi/4, 7pi/4.

The second question is a lot harder imo
Just thought I'd point out that you're losing solutions by dividing by cos(x). You make the assumption that cos(x) does not equal 0, but there are also solutions that occur at cos(x)=0, so pi/2 and 3pi/2 on the interval 0 to 2pi.
 

Cathy

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You certainly look like you know what your talking about :)

What does V refer to above? I'm having a little trouble inputting the above relation into a spreadsheet. What value do you get for f(9) with N = 6 and f(8) with N = 6?
V is just a variable used in the definition of Q. When you evaluate Q(A-1) you replace V by A-1. That's what that notation means.

You can find the complete table for f(A) when N=6 here.

I also fixed a couple typos in my above post.
 

Corpsecreate

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Your list of values matches mine up until A=13.

I'm still not sure what is wrong with my answer though. Im trying to wrap my head around your last sentence.
 

Cathy

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Your list of values matches mine up until A=13.

I'm still not sure what is wrong with my answer though. Im trying to wrap my head around your last sentence.
The problem is that you are double counting positions of A flips that satisfy all the following three conditions:
(1) The last N flips are tails; and
(2) The flip immediately before the last N flips is a head; and
(3) Somewhere in the first A-N flips, N tails occur in a row.

Here is it spelled out for N=6. If you only flip the coin at most 12 times then there are no positions satisfying all three of those conditions because the first two conditions fix 7 flips, and in the remaining five flips, there's no way for N=6 tails to occur in a row (condition 3). However, as soon as you start flipping more than 12 times, it's possible for some positions to satisfy all three of these conditions, and you are counting each of those positions twice.

That's all of the clarification I am going to offer, but I hope it helps.
 

Corpsecreate

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eck, told you im bad at probability :(

EDIT: I can confirm that Cathy's solution is correct. I made a program to run a brute force check of all possibilities and I get the same chance of 54.61%.

Another solution to f(A) is:

f(A) = 0 for A < N
f(A) = 2^(A-N) + f(A-1) + f(A-2) + f(A-3) +...f(A-N) for A >= N
 

Kason Birdman

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ohai its me again with some more lovely physics:

a 4.00 kg block is pushed along the ceiling with a constant applied force of 85.0 N that acts at an angle of 55 degrees with the horizontal. The block accelerates to the right at 6.00 m/s^2. Determine the coefficient of kinetic friction between the block and the ceiling.

I don't know how math helpy you consider forces... but I thought I would give it a shot lol.
 
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