• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Need help with Marth

Cactupuss

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Oregon FTW
My brother's main is Marth, which I know is one of Lucas' WORST match-ups. I'm slightly better than him skill-wise (were both above average in general), so I can usually get it to 1-1 stock before he kills me. Is there anything I can do to even it out so I can win once in a while?

He is a very defensive player, and most of his offense is in the air. most of the problem is that he outranges me, and if he dodges the PKF on the advance I'm toast unless i can get him with PKT2 on the recovery (which he counters and takes no damage from) :( help?
 

Kowz

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
235
Location
Hoboken, NJ near NY
Uh, if you send me a replay of you two fighting then we can help you better. I'll upload and people can get a better idea.
 

Cactupuss

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Oregon FTW
OK the vids are uploading now...I'm going to bed they should be ready in the morning...

I realised that my Ftilt and PKT1 are great at spacing, but I still have trouble grabbing him so I can do the grab release>Dtilt>Fsmash combo which works every time if you can grab him.
 

xoxokev

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,431
Location
California, baby
you say he's defensive... try short hopped nairs to pressure his shield, they also work great against spot dodging... nair also auto-cancels, so you can do a lot of them in a row...

i love Lucas' nair... IMO, its almost the equivalent of Ness' fair
 

Cactupuss

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Oregon FTW
xoxo - thanks for the input - I think defensive would be the wrong word...he's more opportunistic, he doesn't really stay in one spot and spot dodge/shield/counter...he rolls all over the place and waits and he's really slippery. Whenever I get near him he gets me with his side B/ up B

Here are the vids

Before you watch these I want to say I am normally WAY more accurate with PKT2, I dunno what was wrong with me there...I missed the ledge causing death a few times.


Round 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhCdhZxkVis&feature=channel

Round 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhCdhZxkVis&feature=channel

I'll upload some more tomorrow, I can actually win 50/50 now...
 

smasher?o.0

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
218
u spam pk fire to much
only use it when he at about 90%
and learn all his moves and make a huge flow/combo out of it
your moves are choppy
(no offense)
 

xoxokev

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,431
Location
California, baby
mmm... I see. From the first video, it looks like you're doing a lot of full jumps and a lot of fairs. I would say, use the fair less... and if you're going to full jump air dodge, I think you'd be better off short hop air dodging.

2:52 of the first video was PERFECT... just harass your brother with that move, then HE'LL be the one posting on smashboards for help ;-)
 

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Just looking at the first match, it looks like you have a pretty fast playstyle. A few things I noticed: waaay too much down smash. I noticed that you used these slow, strong attacks when you should have been busting out forward tilt. If Marth (or any opponent) is right next to you, I suggest forward tilit over down smash because it's really fast, and gets them away from you. Plus, at low percents it can be used successively to rack up damage. Try less smashes and more forward tilt. Also, I didn't see a lot of neutral air, I actually saw that you used forward air more. Forward air is dangerous near the ground because a good player will shield it and then grab you. You definitely don't wanna get grabbed by an expert Marth, because your life is pretty much forfeit. Neutral air is a better aerial move, it's great for pressuring the opponent. Though a lot of people here will disagree, throwing out PK Freeze to edgeguard is good for mindgamez.

Me = longwinded. :chuckle:
 

ChaosTheoryX

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Wichita, Ks
u spam pk fire to much
only use it when he at about 90%
what?! I'm sorry but thats the most rediculous thing I have ever heard about lucas' pk fire

pk fire should be used at anytime (cautiously of course) and not just when they are at "about 90%" (God knows where you came up with that number)

Edit: watching your matches I found one thing that should help you against him. Try not to approach Marth as much as possible. all of his attacks out range you so Lucas approaching him is a terrible idea. Instead force him to come to you by pressuring him with projectiles. Learn the spacing on Marth's attacks and get just outside that range as he approaches then run in to punish him
 

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
Edit: watching your matches I found one thing that should help you against him. Try not to approach Marth as much as possible. all of his attacks out range you so Lucas approaching him is a terrible idea. Instead force him to come to you by pressuring him with projectiles. Learn the spacing on Marth's attacks and get just outside that range as he approaches then run in to punish him
This is good advice. Marth wins the close range battle, here. Just don't be surprised if your brother starts calling you spammy. You'll get used to it, though. A lot of people think the Earthbounders are nothing but spamfactories anyway. :p
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
For one, you roll too much. Spacing yourself is great, but rolling is going to get you killed. Try and run away instead. Also, put B-sticking on. You can spam as much PK Fire with that on keeping you at a farther distance between you and Marth because the PK Fire will push you back, but also fire off from where you started it. If you don't know what B-sticking is, it's simple. Just change the controller setting on your C-stick which are set to "smash" attacks and change it into "special" attacks. Your C-stick will now use what your B button would normally have. Once you have that set, save it. If you walk to the right, jump and hold right but tilt the C-stick to the left, you'll fire PK Fire and bounce back and vise versa. You should anyway.

Here is what you'll get out of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kox5-m5JM3w

You may be called a spammer, but the point is is that it's good for spacing so you don't get hit by Marth's sword and you'll also be able to launch an annoying attack that can pressure your bother's shield. Don't rely on only this, though. Also, as pointed out, you use down smash a lot. It's good if your opponent is rolling around you, but it's not good to use if your opponent is jumping. Avoid using Lucas' up smash all the time, too. You kept that at a minimum which is good. Another thing is is that you look like you're afraid of approaching your brother. You really shouldn't have to approach Marth, but if you do, don't hold back using whatever you need just to injure Marth.

If you use your nair, which is outrageous and Marth uses his fair, there is a possibility of you hitting Marth anyway, though he still got you. Lucas' nair is really good at pressuring shields and useful against spot dodgers. Lucas' fair is pretty good, too, but I'm not so sure if it's good enough to break through Marth's fair. Also, you use PKT2 quite often. If you use your PK Thunder, be sure to keep at a distance when you use this because I saw Marth would hit you quite a lot whenever you did this.

Spacing is key and knowing your opponent is also another thing. You're bound to get hit, yes, but still, try to keep yourself from getting hit. Again, don't be afraid to spam PK Fire. You can also search on YouTube for some good Lucas mains to see if you can improve your play style.
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
If you can autocancel a nair into a jab combo/ftilt (If you don't know what I'm talking about, go to practice mode and tap x and then a really quickly in half speed, you won't do a headstand at the end. This means you autocancelled it. Try pressing A later to see it not autocancelled).

Autocancelled nair into ftilt punishes rolls towards if he does that. I'll watch the video now.

From what I saw, you might like pit or Lucario more at this point, as your lucas seems to be doing what lucario would normally do. Lucario has fairs that are longer range, an Fsmash that does what you use Dsmash for now, and a neutral B that does what you use PK fire for. His moves are a bit safer and longer ranged than lucas's. Pit has MUCH faster smashes to keep that marth at bay with, and arrows that do what PK fire wants to do but better.

I still have trouble with marth to a rather extreme degree, so I'm gonna have some difficulty giving you good advice that holds both at your level and at higher level, so I'm sorry I can't be more helpful.
 

Cactupuss

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
35
Location
Oregon FTW
Thanks for all your help.

The reason I was FH'ing is because whenever I play him and try SH'ing he goes high and uses his spike, then combos me on the ground...I will try to mix them up more.

Switching to b-stick will give up my c stick smashes, but I should probably learn to do them for real anyways. when I wavebounce I sometimes end up going the wrong way from offscreen xD

I will practice all this :)

I do have a question though...Should I be up jumping or x jumping?

ps. check out my epic fail :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBsoiQFj_A4
 

prOAPC

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
Messages
1,816
Location
Cartagena/Bogotá - Colombia
@levitas: sometimes you have to do the headstand, that way you won't hit whit the last hit of nair

on topic: you're been to aggressive, you have the tools to camp and annoy Marth, and then he will be the one attacking, giving you the advantage. Personally, i don't have to much problem vs Marth, i post a lot in the Blackbelt's match up thread.
I was thinking, and i don't have to much trouble vs those characters that people say that are Lucas' worst match ups (G&W, Marth...), maybe because my playstyle, but i do have problems vs Toon Link and Snake, because their defensive game
 

Levitas

the moon
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Messages
5,734
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Cactupuss, I find that jumping with X is better for most cases (though sometimes I do use up jump as well). This is because you don't sacrifice any sideways aerial mobility and it's easier to SH.

But it is possible to do most inputs with either.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Okay, here's your man to look up on YouTube. Look up prOAPC. His Lucas looks really good.
 
Top Bottom