Necessary technicals?

[Van.]

Title says it all. What should i be doing when practicing on my own, assuming l-canceling, SHFFLING, wavedashing, turnaround neutral b are all down. Thanks

 

[WHA?]

heres some off the top of my head, remember that i hate practicing sheik on my own

-u-smash out of sheild
-wavedash out of sheild
-run off edge with up b to grab ledge (not necessary)
-WAVELAND!!!!!!!!!! (atlus, lovage, lucky, bizzaro flame taught me the importance of this)
-get used to empty jumps (they were weird my first times)
-go to practice mode, decrease the speed, see how the tech looks when u d-throw spacies, to help u recognize n techchase in game
-general spacing, get a feel for what ur move ranges are
-train urself to NEVER down b (hardest sheik trick)

 

[Pikaville]

Needle cancled aerials(and reverse ones)They are fantastic to have in your arsenal.

Dash dancing is useful but not necessary.

Jump cancelled grabs are VITAL.

I'm sure there is something I'm forgetting though.

 

[WHA?]

jump cancelled grabs , and boost grabs

nair out of sheild!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Van.]

Good stuff guys. I hate to be a noob, but what exactly is a needle canceled aerial? *cringes in anticipation of n00b hate*

 

[Teczer0]

Its basically doing a needle cancel then just aerialing.

Its quite honestly not very useful imo.

 

[Pikaville]

It's useful for getting out a quick surprize bair or 2.

As long as you mix it up.

I like throwing them in just to make needles more unpredictable and you can predict techs with them and stuff IDK.

 

[Teczer0]

*shrugs* if it works for you keep doin it.

Just... its not that paramount.

People usually try to shield needles anyway so I just cancel it into grab if I do that. Or just use needles anyway really low and get a free grab.

 

[ArcNatural]

Did you forget needle canceling to turn around for edgegaurds? That seems moderately useful for Sheik imo.

 

[Teczer0]

Thats not obsolete but, I kinda group it together with needle turnaround, actually its really one of the only things I do with needle turnaround.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

i got a question. Instead of jump canceling my grabs ive bee hitting down to cancel my run then grabbing, to me it looks the same as a jump cancel is it the same is it worst/better?

Also i heard if you do a dash attack then quickly press grab it increases your grab range just making sure this is true b/c i heard it in the same place that said fair increased your height for recovery

 

[Requiem]

i got a question. Instead of jump canceling my grabs ive bee hitting down to cancel my run then grabbing, to me it looks the same as a jump cancel is it the same is it worst/better?

Also i heard if you do a dash attack then quickly press grab it increases your grab range just making sure this is true b/c i heard it in the same place that said fair increased your height for recovery

It's slower because you also get the frames of the crouch cancel before the grab. Just jump cancel your grabs.

 

[Pikaville]

Yeah jump canceling is quicker, it basically lets you do a standing grab while moving.The running grab animation is slower.

 

[WHA?]

i got a question. Instead of jump canceling my grabs ive bee hitting down to cancel my run then grabbing, to me it looks the same as a jump cancel is it the same is it worst/better?

Also i heard if you do a dash attack then quickly press grab it increases your grab range just making sure this is true b/c i heard it in the same place that said fair increased your height for recovery

you may not be able to tell by just looking, but the frames say jump canceled grabs are faster
so even if it doesnt seem THAT much fasterr, it is still to your advantage since those few frames can be the difference in getting the grab or not

oh and about your second question
its called a boost grab
since for jump cancelled grabs you:
jump then z
for boost grab its
a (for dash) then z

i think theres a little bit of a difference in timing but the point of boost grab is to get the little boost forward of a dash attack, but with a grab
when you do it u shouldnt be seeing a dash attack

 

[Nihonjin]

*shrugs* if it works for you keep doin it.

Just... its not that paramount.

People usually try to shield needles anyway so I just cancel it into grab if I do that. Or just use needles anyway really low and get a free grab.

That's the whole point. You force them to put up their shields.

 

[Teczer0]

That's the whole point. You force them to put up their shields.

Just wondering but ...... whats this for?

lol do you disagree with my point or something?

 

[Ken_Y`]

IMO

sheik is someone I never train with by myself ...

sheik is so easy to use it aint even funny

but i will say one technique i personally have trouble executing consistently is the wave dash back to ftilt

if ur not gentle enough you'll forward smash ...

but what you need to do is play with a person who has a decent amount of skill with a variety of characters,

and play them and learn how to edgeguard them with needles and bair and all that good stuff

and you can only really learn Tope's tech chasing through playing and reading other people

nair OoS is important and just try to move with your character as fast as possible on the platforms

who am I again?

 

[Nihonjin]

Just wondering but ...... whats this for?

Control over your opponent is always a good thing. Easy pressure basically. (Or a grab like you said)

lol do you disagree with my point or something?

Only with needle canceled aerials being useless..:embarrass

 

[Teczer0]

Well... ok you have a point it might not be useless.

Its definitely in the later things you want to learn though imo.

I dunno I like spaced aerials into empty hops, I never seem to bother using needles to turn around for an aerial.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

you may not be able to tell by just looking, but the frames say jump canceled grabs are faster
so even if it doesnt seem THAT much fasterr, it is still to your advantage since those few frames can be the difference in getting the grab or not

oh and about your second question
its called a boost grab
since for jump cancelled grabs you:
jump then z
for boost grab its
a (for dash) then z

i think theres a little bit of a difference in timing but the point of boost grab is to get the little boost forward of a dash attack, but with a grab
when you do it u shouldnt be seeing a dash attack

ok thanks. i heard that crouch cancel grabs were slower but the person who told me this was no authority on the matter so i wanted to double check.

Also for the 2nd part about the dash cancel grab i was aware i am not suppose to see the dash attack the main reason for this question was that the place were i heard about it also said fair increses your recovery which i know is not true so i wanted to make sure this was real.

A fallow up on the 2nd question, is it true it makes sheik's grab range longer then marth's?

Last thing i got most AT down pretty well oddly the only two things i am having trouble with are what i believe are considered easy. i am having trouble short hopping consistently (but i am going to practice this till i get it down i have trouble hitting the jump button light enough during matches), and i have trouble wave-dashing out of shield. For this i hold shield hit jump then let go of shield button then repress it fast and hold the joystick to the direction i want to go, am i doing this right and any advise how to do this better or should i just practice till i got it down?

 

[WHA?]

A fallow up on the 2nd question, is it true it makes sheik's grab range longer then marth's?

Last thing i got most AT down pretty well oddly the only two things i am having trouble with are what i believe are considered easy. i am having trouble short hopping consistently (but i am going to practice this till i get it down i have trouble hitting the jump button light enough during matches), and i have trouble wave-dashing out of shield. For this i hold shield hit jump then let go of shield button then repress it fast and hold the joystick to the direction i want to go, am i doing this right and any advise how to do this better or should i just practice till i got it down?

not too sure but i know that the range increase of the boost grab makes it very good for techchasing since u cover more

actually i think i might be one of the wierdest button users iin melee
- i learned advanced techniques with joystick to jump (yes, short hop fastfall, shine backair is easy, nair OoS is pretty **** perfect)
- taught myself to use x to jump (since i can go in for horizontal directions when running)(and i can do the running and backward jump with much ease)
- so i can alternate between those
-wavedash with y
- wavedash out of sheild just like you do, although it is ideal to do it by using both triggeres since one holds the sheild and the other provides the airdodge so u get sheild for longer n comes out faster

now that i think of it would all of this put a strain on my improvement? i mean i feel natural with the way i do things now.......

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

ok so i have not had much time to practice my short hop and wave dash oos b/c of school work but with the small amount of time i have had i have found using both shoulder buttons for the wave dash is pretty easy, but at least atm i find short hopping the hardest thing to do with sheik bar none. i barely even press jump and she full hops. i will keep practicing but dam it seems so hard atm is there any advice to make it easier?

Also WHA nice avatar he my fav character from yu yu

 

[Pikaville]

It's weird. I always use L to wavedash and R to shield.

It's just uncomfortable for me to mix them up .

The majority of the time I tend to recover from the right side of the stage.I remember when I was learning wavedashes from the ledge I was like "There is no way I'm using R to do this" It's just wrong.

 

[Ministry]

IMO

sheik is someone I never train with by myself ...

sheik is so easy to use it aint even funny


and you can only really learn Tope's tech chasing through playing and reading other people

its funny cause there is only like 3 top level sheiks, yet aprently she's one of if not the easiset character to use as people say.

a lot more to sheik then ppl think

and topes tech chasing doesnt make up for how much he screws up ledgeguarding.

 

[WHA?]

yea what ministry said

I dont remember who said this but it was along the lines of

"sheik is an easy character to pick up, but a hard characters to play in top competitive setting"

 

[keeper]

Needle turn arounds all day.
Stickywalk
Moonwalk

Ahhh yeah.

But in all serious matters:
Basic things. Consistent l-cancels, wavelands, wavedash, foxtrot wavedash to make it longer...

Turn around needles are great, try to figure out the best way for you to grab the ledge fast for hogs (I short hop, turn around needle, fast wall).

Learn to tech chase, do usmash out of shield, wavedash out of shield. Sheik isn't someone that's limited by tech skill, just smarts. The tech skill just adds to your arsenal of mind games and capabilities.

You really need to know most of these things to play any character. There's just specific tricks and quirks, otherwise you can know all the same basic stuff and advanced techniques to play them.

 

[Moxin]

IDK if anyone mentioned this, but turnaround needles are absolutely amazing for edgeguards. You can runoff fastfall right next to the edge, turn around needle, dj bair, and b up back on to the edge. Also, nothing lets you bair as far away from the edge as needles; run, full hop off, turn around needle, dj bair.

Turnaround needles to bait them following you on platforms into a runoff fair -> grab or something.

There are a ton of other uses that might not have been mentioned, but I really do think this tech is essential, if only for edgeguarding. Gives you like 5 more different distances on bair edgeguards and it comes out faster than running to the edge -> dropping off -> bair, which can't go as high when you need to edgeguard a recovery from above and they're too far for fair. Also bair is easier to space into recoveries than fair above the edge so turnaround needles -> bair is almost always better unless they're recovering right next to the stage.

Edit: typed rull hop instead of full hop hahaha.

 

[Pita]

You know you did a boost grab right if you see a little cloud on the ground behind your character. The timing is a bit different from a Jump Cancelled Grab though. JC Grab is almost hitting jump+Z together, while Boost Grab is probably around the same timing of a Wavedash.

Also, Wavedash OoS is easier if you use one button to shield and one button to Wavedash. I use L for shielding and R to Wavedash and it's easy enough to do.

 

[j3ly]

crouch cancel -> grab is hard to do, not so technical but a way to improve ur sheik.
upB ledge stall is also good and necessary between most tournament match stocks.

i quite like to short hop backwards and tilt the control stick forwards which makes sheik do a backflip, lol.
turnaround needles, important. needle cancel is also important, it can make for good baits. learn to double jump out of a needle cancel, and waveland onto the platform above. that looks pretty technical.

its good to know about no-impact platform lands. they can be done on the platforms on YS, PS and sometimes FoD from a backwards shorthop.

knowing your AutoC's also important. sheik can AC her moves from a short hop, full hop and onto almost all the platforms. nairing backwards out of shield is a good strategy.
sheik can also utilt/dtilt/ftilt from a dash - cancel the dash with a crouch, and tilt quickly. the initial dash animation has to be over tho.
its a good idea to learn the precise IASA timing on dtilt, because when people CC dtilt they trip, and you want to catch them with a ftilt asap.

knowing how to use nair with zelda is useful for downB mistakes.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Wavedash.

Out.

Of.

Shield.