AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I don't think people who can barely dacus should input MU ratings just saying of course.
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Nayru's Oracle: The Official Zelda Matchup Thread! Currently Discussing: Peach
- Thread starter Alacion
- Start date
Fuujin
Smash Champion
wat post
t-char
t-char
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Nado actually can be a really big problem in this match up.
It's like a guaranteed way to cover her landings and it's safe enough that Zelda can't punish it when spaced properly.
That Mk in the video was playing bad, he used nado like 10 times within the first 20 seconds and wasn't even spacing them.
While f smash can go through nado, good luck consistently pulling that off.
F smash isn't rally too safe against a grounded, patient MK in this MU.
Good Mks will bait your f smash and punish with a dash grab(his dash grab is amazing).
I know it's a real problem, but there's always some mistake... well maybe not always, but can happen... let's remember we're all humans and can have mistakes, so we know we won't get destroyed by a TAS like player lol
about Fsmash, yes, it's hard to do consistently, but obv we're not gonna do it always to get baited
I agree with you, but still it's much better to know we can do something and try to learn it, than just sit there and never even try it...
my main point with the post was that we need to remember the (maybe few) things we can do and not only see the bad side... I know we don't play the best character and has it's many flaws but I'm completely sure that we can actually do something... and well at last I knew what I was saying(or at least I think that)
if anyone knows something else should post it... and very very Very VEry VERy VERY important... let's stop this useless "DownB is your best option" thing and just think what SOLO Zelda can do... if anyone wants to discuss Sheik here's the link to the Sheik boards... it's just that it derails the topic way too much and I think this is important
about Fsmash, yes, it's hard to do consistently, but obv we're not gonna do it always to get baited
I agree with you, but still it's much better to know we can do something and try to learn it, than just sit there and never even try it...
my main point with the post was that we need to remember the (maybe few) things we can do and not only see the bad side... I know we don't play the best character and has it's many flaws but I'm completely sure that we can actually do something... and well at last I knew what I was saying(or at least I think that)
if anyone knows something else should post it... and very very Very VEry VERy VERY important... let's stop this useless "DownB is your best option" thing and just think what SOLO Zelda can do... if anyone wants to discuss Sheik here's the link to the Sheik boards... it's just that it derails the topic way too much and I think this is important
I find Zelda pops out of nado super easily. It's probably MK's easiest punish, but probably not his most profitable.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
So I used to have this thing on my phone I was working on with random tidbits and CPS and Bans for every character on my phone to look at before matches but then I dropped that phone in the toilet.
Anyways I remember I had for MK.
• D air goes through the rising part of his up B rather easily.(not the very beginning where he's invicible though)
• Zelda always gets a forced air release after grabbing him, she's too slow to follow up but it can be useful for the hazards at Pictochat or other stages.
Anyways I remember I had for MK.
• D air goes through the rising part of his up B rather easily.(not the very beginning where he's invicible though)
• Zelda always gets a forced air release after grabbing him, she's too slow to follow up but it can be useful for the hazards at Pictochat or other stages.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
back when I used to play wifi a lot, I'd just practice shiek's DACUS on the sandbag. Honestly that was all I needed to get it down and stay sharp with it.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
I'm positive I had more than two things written down for MK tho.
Really pissed that I dropped it, I was done with like 80% of the characters
I think one more might have been that it's easier to kill him vertically than horizontally because he has nice horizontal momentum canceling.
Really pissed that I dropped it, I was done with like 80% of the characters
I think one more might have been that it's easier to kill him vertically than horizontally because he has nice horizontal momentum canceling.
Oh, I don't have a problem DACUS'ing if that's what you're refering to.
I was just sayin'.
Sonic The Hedgedawg
Smash Hero
well then... helpful hint for anyone here.
As to the how "Shielda" discussion going on. I'll just say this:
All Zeldas should learn how to play shiek proficiently. We can still talk about Zelda's matchups, but you are really shortchanging yourself if you don't learn both characters.
links24
Smash Ace
insightful i mean really
well the only place I know we can do something about the air release is the moving platform of SV where get can do al most anything we want, but it has to be moving at full speed and well... tbh it won't happen very often, but when it happens just kick or Utilt him lol
and yeah we can kill him early with any U move (except UpB lol) like at 110 (?)Usmash will kill him, Utilt maybe at 100 assuming he won't expect it and mess up the DI, and Uair well, maybe at 80?
hard to do but if we read him correctly he will be dead...
another thing... remember to not try to punish if he misses a Fsmash(unless you PS it) as it has super low cool down and we can eat a Dsmash or grounded shuttle loop immediately
and yeah we can kill him early with any U move (except UpB lol) like at 110 (?)Usmash will kill him, Utilt maybe at 100 assuming he won't expect it and mess up the DI, and Uair well, maybe at 80?
hard to do but if we read him correctly he will be dead...
another thing... remember to not try to punish if he misses a Fsmash(unless you PS it) as it has super low cool down and we can eat a Dsmash or grounded shuttle loop immediately
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
That reminds me does Zelda have GR shenanigans on SV's platform. Also for MK I like to take him to the stages that I'm most comfortable on. It matters not what your CP or ban are MK out performs you on stage. This is of course true for every character in the game though.So I used to have this thing on my phone I was working on with random tidbits and CPS and Bans for every character on my phone to look at before matches but then I dropped that phone in the toilet.
Anyways I remember I had for MK.
• D air goes through the rising part of his up B rather easily.(not the very beginning where he's invicible though)
• Zelda always gets a forced air release after grabbing him, she's too slow to follow up but it can be useful for the hazards at Pictochat or other stages.
But I am comfortable playing on Rainbow Cruise...
How's this?
Meta Knight -4 (Close to Unwinnable) (rounded from an average of exactly 3.50)
[COLLAPSE="Summary"]
Advantages
-Zelda has powerful attacks, allowing her to KO Meta Knight at lower-than-average percentages.
-Opponent may not have matchup experience against Zelda.
Disadvantages
-Meta Knight outspaces Zelda in almost all situations.
-Zelda has no approach options against Meta Knight.
-Zelda's gameplay is completely shut down in the air.
-Meta Knight's attacks have transcendent priority.
-Meta Knight has godlike planking.
Things to Keep in Mind
-While Meta Knight beats Zelda on both the air and ground, keep your game on the ground if possible.
-Focus on spacing to avoid Meta Knight's attacks. Shield his attacks, and punish when you can.
-Do not use Din's Fire unless at a very safe distance.
-Zelda has limited recovery options that are easily exploited. Mix it up with Love Jumps and Farore's Boost.
-When Meta Knight uses Tornado, SSDI your shield upwards to avoid being shield poked.
-Forward smash can beat Tornado, but don't rely on this. At times, Nayru's Love and down air can beat Tornado.
-After Shuttle Looping, Meta Knight frequently follows up with a Glide Attack. Be prepared.
-Try not to stale Up Smash. It has favourable hitboxes and can kill as early as 125%.
-Don't focus on gimping Meta Knight. On the other hand, Meta Knight gimps Zelda extremely well. Be careful!
Stage Selection
Counterpicks
-Final Destination
-Smashville
-Pictochat
Stage Bans
-Delfino
-Rainbow Cruise
-Brinstar
-Halberd
-Norfair
Random Facts
-If you grab release Meta Knight while on Smashville's platform moving at full speed, Zelda has many options such as up smash, up tilt, or up air.
[/COLLAPSE]
Meta Knight -4 (Close to Unwinnable) (rounded from an average of exactly 3.50)[COLLAPSE="Summary"]
Advantages
-Zelda has powerful attacks, allowing her to KO Meta Knight at lower-than-average percentages.
-Opponent may not have matchup experience against Zelda.
Disadvantages
-Meta Knight outspaces Zelda in almost all situations.
-Zelda has no approach options against Meta Knight.
-Zelda's gameplay is completely shut down in the air.
-Meta Knight's attacks have transcendent priority.
-Meta Knight has godlike planking.
Things to Keep in Mind
-While Meta Knight beats Zelda on both the air and ground, keep your game on the ground if possible.
-Focus on spacing to avoid Meta Knight's attacks. Shield his attacks, and punish when you can.
-Do not use Din's Fire unless at a very safe distance.
-Zelda has limited recovery options that are easily exploited. Mix it up with Love Jumps and Farore's Boost.
-When Meta Knight uses Tornado, SSDI your shield upwards to avoid being shield poked.
-Forward smash can beat Tornado, but don't rely on this. At times, Nayru's Love and down air can beat Tornado.
-After Shuttle Looping, Meta Knight frequently follows up with a Glide Attack. Be prepared.
-Try not to stale Up Smash. It has favourable hitboxes and can kill as early as 125%.
-Don't focus on gimping Meta Knight. On the other hand, Meta Knight gimps Zelda extremely well. Be careful!
Stage Selection
Counterpicks
-Final Destination
-Smashville
-Pictochat
Stage Bans
-Delfino
-Rainbow Cruise
-Brinstar
-Halberd
-Norfair
Random Facts
-If you grab release Meta Knight while on Smashville's platform moving at full speed, Zelda has many options such as up smash, up tilt, or up air.
[/COLLAPSE]
Except grabbing MK is nigh impossible, and grabbing him on the platform would make the MK surprisingly stupid since:
1. lots of characters gay MK on the moving platform
2. he just approached Zelda of all people
But hey, it's something.
Right guys?
Guys?
1. lots of characters gay MK on the moving platform
2. he just approached Zelda of all people
But hey, it's something.
Right guys?
Guys?
I'm sorry, did I offend you?
Fuujin
Smash Champion
Why any Zelda would be on the platform at SV willingly while fighting an MK is beyond me.
That's just asking to eat u airs.
That's just asking to eat u airs.
#HBC | Scary
Hype Incarnate
^^^^^^^^^ All that!
It really looks like anything I could want to say, has been said.
My best advice is to remain as patient as possible. Try not to go and punish every opening because we likely won't have to speed to push each opening and then we get punished. I think Uthrow is awesome in this MU just because we actually aren't too bad at punishing MK landing options. Likely, he'll waste jumps to run away but just having us under is a good pressure in itself. If you are bent on punishing openings, Dash attack and instant dash attack will likely be your best tool because of it's range. Ftilt isn't too bad either, but if you use that option, you need to be ready for punishment just in case you whiff or something. Again, it isn't a bad tool in some punishment situations. Of course look for Dtilt at lock percentages because we'll need all we can get. Above everything else, always try to recover to stage and not ledge if you can. If you can consistently momentum cancel, you will actually live for a long time in this MU (gimps/dumb SLs aside). That's really all I can provide that hasn't been said I think.
-3 it feels to me.
It really looks like anything I could want to say, has been said.
My best advice is to remain as patient as possible. Try not to go and punish every opening because we likely won't have to speed to push each opening and then we get punished. I think Uthrow is awesome in this MU just because we actually aren't too bad at punishing MK landing options. Likely, he'll waste jumps to run away but just having us under is a good pressure in itself. If you are bent on punishing openings, Dash attack and instant dash attack will likely be your best tool because of it's range. Ftilt isn't too bad either, but if you use that option, you need to be ready for punishment just in case you whiff or something. Again, it isn't a bad tool in some punishment situations. Of course look for Dtilt at lock percentages because we'll need all we can get. Above everything else, always try to recover to stage and not ledge if you can. If you can consistently momentum cancel, you will actually live for a long time in this MU (gimps/dumb SLs aside). That's really all I can provide that hasn't been said I think.
-3 it feels to me.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Then take him to rainbow cruise.But I am comfortable playing on Rainbow Cruise...
Okay, for that SV platform thing, I realize it's not very viable that's why I put it under random facts lol. I added that it's not viable.
Guess it's safe to start Diddy Kong now.
Guess it's safe to start Diddy Kong now.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
-2
This MU is all about nana control. Diddy becomes a better character with the more nanas he has out. 2 is worse for you than 1 and none isn't bad at all. Reflect sparingly to get rid of some pressure and if he gets predictable with nana toss. If you're shield a nana throw you can SHAD and grab the nana. When you do have a nana never throw it at diddy and don't throw it off stage either. Throw it up or throw it down. Also a neat little trick is to play close to the ledge so that if you get hit by a nana you just grab the ledge instead.
This MU is all about nana control. Diddy becomes a better character with the more nanas he has out. 2 is worse for you than 1 and none isn't bad at all. Reflect sparingly to get rid of some pressure and if he gets predictable with nana toss. If you're shield a nana throw you can SHAD and grab the nana. When you do have a nana never throw it at diddy and don't throw it off stage either. Throw it up or throw it down. Also a neat little trick is to play close to the ledge so that if you get hit by a nana you just grab the ledge instead.
Fuujin
Smash Champion
-2
Diddy and Zelda both like being on the ground, but diddy's ground game is much better than Zelda and she can't really keep up with him.
A Diddy that's smart with his bananas will make things kinda hard for Zelda.
A smart Diddy will bait Nayru's and punish with a banana afterward so you have to be careful when using it.
I would say only use Nayru's as a reflector when you're pretty positive it's going to hit.
Most Diddy's I've played don't know how long the duration is for Nayru's but the ones that do are a total pain.
Patient Diddy's that wait for you to make a mistake and punish are the worst.
Thankfully Zelda has the best approach she can do available in this match up, glidetoss.
Glidetoss is amazing with a banana, you can follow up with grab, all of her smashes, Nayru's, D tilt and IF he was fat you could do sweet spotted b-air. The annoying thing is that it foes so far you're likely to trip a banana along the way, so watch out for that.
The combination of bananas, F smash, D tilt and Nayru's actually make Zelda's defensive legit.
The smart placement of bananas can make it very hard for Diddy to approach, so it comes down to banana control.
Diddy's aerials are pretty strong and can kill Zelda around 100 so watch out for those at higher percents.
His monkeyb flip kick thing has really good priority and goes through most of Zelda's move, I think you can N air it though.
Stage wise, I would avoid FD.
Diddy just dominates that stage too well with bananas, I like to have platforms so I find the fight much easier on stages like SV and BF.
Learn to Z catch Bananas.
I'll add more when I think of it.
Diddy and Zelda both like being on the ground, but diddy's ground game is much better than Zelda and she can't really keep up with him.
A Diddy that's smart with his bananas will make things kinda hard for Zelda.
A smart Diddy will bait Nayru's and punish with a banana afterward so you have to be careful when using it.
I would say only use Nayru's as a reflector when you're pretty positive it's going to hit.
Most Diddy's I've played don't know how long the duration is for Nayru's but the ones that do are a total pain.
Patient Diddy's that wait for you to make a mistake and punish are the worst
.Thankfully Zelda has the best approach she can do available in this match up, glidetoss.
Glidetoss is amazing with a banana, you can follow up with grab, all of her smashes, Nayru's, D tilt and IF he was fat you could do sweet spotted b-air
. The annoying thing is that it foes so far you're likely to trip a banana along the way, so watch out for that.The combination of bananas, F smash, D tilt and Nayru's actually make Zelda's defensive legit.
The smart placement of bananas can make it very hard for Diddy to approach, so it comes down to banana control.
Diddy's aerials are pretty strong and can kill Zelda around 100 so watch out for those at higher percents.
His monkeyb flip kick thing has really good priority and goes through most of Zelda's move, I think you can N air it though.
Stage wise, I would avoid FD.
Diddy just dominates that stage too well with bananas, I like to have platforms so I find the fight much easier on stages like SV and BF.
Learn to Z catch Bananas.
I'll add more when I think of it.
The glideeeeee tosssss <3333
That shiz is amazing and probably stops it from being -3.
Imma post more when I'm at my computer.
That shiz is amazing and probably stops it from being -3.
Imma post more when I'm at my computer.
by the way MechaWave, I tested d-smash in frame advance, and it hits on frame 4, not on frame 3.
Bump.
Matchup is -2.
As mentioned earlier, glide toss is amazing but like all amazing things, it gets predictable. When I found out about the Z button in the Diddy matchup, my mind was blown.
I disagree with Zelda being on the edge. The last thing you want is for Diddy to put Zelda in a position where she is pressured. The risk of having Diddy's peanut gun spammed at you, or being hit with his fair over and over just isn't worth it. I definitely say occasionally use the bananas against Diddy, otherwise keep the banana on the stage but as far from Diddy has possible.
As usual, Diddy can shut down Din's with a fair and SDI out of Fsmash. Side B is devastating... always be ready for it.
Nayru's Love is very helpful, just don't be baited.
Stages: Any stage is fine really, minus FD.
Counterpick: Maybe BF and for whatever reason Frigate seems to work for me?
inb4Sheik'sgrabreleasedacus
Matchup is -2.
As mentioned earlier, glide toss is amazing but like all amazing things, it gets predictable. When I found out about the Z button in the Diddy matchup, my mind was blown.
I disagree with Zelda being on the edge. The last thing you want is for Diddy to put Zelda in a position where she is pressured. The risk of having Diddy's peanut gun spammed at you, or being hit with his fair over and over just isn't worth it. I definitely say occasionally use the bananas against Diddy, otherwise keep the banana on the stage but as far from Diddy has possible.
As usual, Diddy can shut down Din's with a fair and SDI out of Fsmash. Side B is devastating... always be ready for it.
Nayru's Love is very helpful, just don't be baited.
Stages: Any stage is fine really, minus FD.
Counterpick: Maybe BF and for whatever reason Frigate seems to work for me?
inb4Sheik'sgrabreleasedacus
Being near the edge is a good idea so if the banana hits us and trips us we grab the ledge instead of eating 30% + in other part of the stage
I think we need to learn how to use both glide tosses, so we have more options for mindgames and banana stuff
I wouldn't recomend to always use the bananas against diddy (throwing them at him) always if you don't have a good item control... he can very easily pick it up or catch it to give us potasium pain. Sometimes throw it up, down, even behind you if you're glide tossing and maybe we can get a Bair
we can even keep the banana and use some din's to annoy him and maybe make him approach... at least that has worked for me...
if we throw down a banana on his head and he trips = Bair/Fair (mostly Bair)
if we get him offstage in a position where he needs to use his UpB if possible intercept him with a banana or Dair and even the sourspot can kill him/gimp him, when something hits him with the barrells he gets a lot of lag and that could be his dead
learn to use bananas wisely and this MU won't be thaaat bad...
fun fact: if we do the long glide toss throwing the banana to the side we're sliding we can pick it up again and keep sliding lol (I sometimes do this to run away cowardly)
-1 or -2 I can't really choose one... if I remember something else I'll put it but I think that's all I could write that could be missing... also if I was wrong in something please tell me =D
I think we need to learn how to use both glide tosses, so we have more options for mindgames and banana stuff
I wouldn't recomend to always use the bananas against diddy (throwing them at him) always if you don't have a good item control... he can very easily pick it up or catch it to give us potasium pain. Sometimes throw it up, down, even behind you if you're glide tossing and maybe we can get a Bair
we can even keep the banana and use some din's to annoy him and maybe make him approach... at least that has worked for me...
if we throw down a banana on his head and he trips = Bair/Fair (mostly Bair)
if we get him offstage in a position where he needs to use his UpB if possible intercept him with a banana or Dair and even the sourspot can kill him/gimp him, when something hits him with the barrells he gets a lot of lag and that could be his dead
learn to use bananas wisely and this MU won't be thaaat bad...
fun fact: if we do the long glide toss throwing the banana to the side we're sliding we can pick it up again and keep sliding lol (I sometimes do this to run away cowardly)
-1 or -2 I can't really choose one... if I remember something else I'll put it but I think that's all I could write that could be missing... also if I was wrong in something please tell me =D
Well this died rather quickly.
Diddy Kong -2 (Medium Disadvantage)
[COLLAPSE="Summary"]
Advantages
-Diddy's Bananas give access to Zelda's Glide Toss
Disadvantages
-Diddy applies enormous pressure with his Peanut Gun and Bananas
-Diddy's ground game surpasses Zelda's
-Banana set ups (such as down smash setups) kill Zelda at lower-than-average percents
Things to Keep in Mind
-The Z button will completely change the way you see the matchup. Using Z in the air allows Zelda the key ability to catch Bananas in the air. Alternatively, any aerial can be used.
-Glide Tossing will prove to be an excellent approach. Reverse Glide Tossing is helpful to create some distance. Prone to over-usage.
-Zelda's Nayru's Love is very helpful in reflecting Bananas. Don't be baited into using it and don't be predictable.
-As always, do not Din's Fire unless Diddy's Bananas can not reach you. Din's Fire can be cancelled by Diddy's forward air.
-By playing near the edge, Diddy's Bananas will push Zelda onto the ledge rather than tripping her. Be careful, Diddy has decent edgeguarding.
-If you are feeling confident, use Diddy's Bananas against him. Otherwise, keep the Bananas as far from Diddy as possible, while keeping them on stage.
-Watch out for Diddy's Side B. A quick and fairly high priority move.
-Diddy's throws are quick and deadly. Watch your DI!
Stage Selection
Counterpicks
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Any stage really. Platforms are a good thing!
Stage Bans
-Final Destination
[/COLLAPSE]
Okay, Snake's up!
Diddy Kong -2 (Medium Disadvantage)[COLLAPSE="Summary"]
Advantages
-Diddy's Bananas give access to Zelda's Glide Toss
Disadvantages
-Diddy applies enormous pressure with his Peanut Gun and Bananas
-Diddy's ground game surpasses Zelda's
-Banana set ups (such as down smash setups) kill Zelda at lower-than-average percents
Things to Keep in Mind
-The Z button will completely change the way you see the matchup. Using Z in the air allows Zelda the key ability to catch Bananas in the air. Alternatively, any aerial can be used.
-Glide Tossing will prove to be an excellent approach. Reverse Glide Tossing is helpful to create some distance. Prone to over-usage.
-Zelda's Nayru's Love is very helpful in reflecting Bananas. Don't be baited into using it and don't be predictable.
-As always, do not Din's Fire unless Diddy's Bananas can not reach you. Din's Fire can be cancelled by Diddy's forward air.
-By playing near the edge, Diddy's Bananas will push Zelda onto the ledge rather than tripping her. Be careful, Diddy has decent edgeguarding.
-If you are feeling confident, use Diddy's Bananas against him. Otherwise, keep the Bananas as far from Diddy as possible, while keeping them on stage.
-Watch out for Diddy's Side B. A quick and fairly high priority move.
-Diddy's throws are quick and deadly. Watch your DI!
Stage Selection
Counterpicks
-Battlefield
-Smashville
-Any stage really. Platforms are a good thing!
Stage Bans
-Final Destination
[/COLLAPSE]
Okay, Snake's up!
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I can't speak about this MU without being bias. I think this is Zelda's worst MU though and I'll let someone else go more in depth. As for stages it doesn't matter what you play on (much like MK) so take him with you're comfortable.
@courier Brinstar should be listed a CP for diddy as for that write up it really irks me.
@courier Brinstar should be listed a CP for diddy as for that write up it really irks me.
Snake is fun to fight against.
-3
*stuff about not using Nayru's here*
-3
*stuff about not using Nayru's here*