N-air landing

[Rhyfelwyr]

I haven't really seen this mentioned before. The landing lag from the N-air has amazing IASA(?) frames. Doing a fastfall N-air to jab works as a combo at low percents. At higher percents where the N-air knocks away, you can cancel into side-B or down-B for a follow up.

I don't know how useful this could be, just thought to bring it up.

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^Not really IASA frames, but rather very low landing lag during certain frames of the move (I think auto canceling would more accurately describe it).

It's fairly useful, but I don't use nair much, unless it's like ending a combo or something (I normally end with fair anyway though).

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Are you sure? In my testing, a shield or attack after landing from a N-air always comes out significantly faster then a walk. If you try to walk or dash after an N-air, you'll clearly see Sonic bounce first, but if you input an attack at the right time, Sonic skips that animation.

 

[memphischains]

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[Dark Sonic]

Are you sure? In my testing, a shield or attack after landing from a N-air always comes out significantly faster then a walk. If you try to walk or dash after an N-air, you'll clearly see Sonic bounce first, but if you input an attack at the right time, Sonic skips that animation.

I've done nairs without bouncing before, by simply doing the nair a little earlier. I'll test it myself tommorrow, but I really think it's auto canceling.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

I know about auto-canceling. What I'm talking about is fastfalling and landing with the N-air near the beginning of it's execution, then cancelling the lag with another move.

 

[Dark Sonic]

But you can also Walk during IASA frames, which is what I find to be most puzzling about this, since you specifically said that you couldn't.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

Hmm, maybe I have something wrong, I'll go check a minute.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Meh, I'll look at your results in the morning (well, later in the morning. It's almost 1 AM here).

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

After testing with Ganon's Up-smash, which has the most clear IASA frames, it seems it's impossible to take advantage of a IASA opportunity by walking, but you can use IASA to dash. Going back to Sonic's N-air, I was able to dash out of the landing, but walking still seemed to take a little longer to initiate.

EDIT: After comparing two Sonics acting simultaneously in 1/4 speed, there may be only a couple frames of difference made by IASA. After the bounce from the landing, Sonic tries to turn himself completely up right before walking, but when you do an action like hold shield, he appears to skip a tiny part of the setting himself straight animation.

I'm beginning to think any IASA influence may be extremely minimal, and the initiation from an N-air is mainly due to its inherit low landing lag, like you said. In the end it doesn't really matter though, since the point is it's quick.

 

[Napilopez]

Nair is great. And more people should use it. It has like the quickest startup for Sonics aerials, and thus can be useful to break free from some strings. Remember that aerial priority is determined by which hitbox hits the others hitbox first. So even though Uair is extremely disjointed, it wont matter if you opponent executes an aerial before your Uair can hit. So use Nair if you're in right in someones face, particularly if that char has fast aerials. Try it if your close enough to MK, lol. Also, its hitbox stays out forever, so its usefula gainst moves like fox and falco's SideB, or against spotdodging and airdodging.

Nair's lag is so lo that its virtually negligible. I think simply fastfalling without an aerial has more/equal landing lag.

 

[Tenki]

Nair is great. And more people should use it. It has like the quickest startup for Sonics aerials, and thus can be useful to break free from some strings. Remember that aerial priority is determined by which hitbox hits the others hitbox first. So even though Uair is extremely disjointed, it wont matter if you opponent executes an aerial before your Uair can hit. So use Nair if you're in right in someones face, particularly if that char has fast aerials. Try it if your close enough to MK, lol. Also, its hitbox stays out forever, so its usefula gainst moves like fox and falco's SideB, or against spotdodging and airdodging.

Nair's lag is so lo that its virtually negligible. I think simply fastfalling without an aerial has more/equal landing lag.

F-air and I think U-air are all faster than N-air.

try doing a SH insta-F-air and starting another aerial. N-air won't start before you land, but F-air and U-air will (I think).

N-air is kind of... not disjointed, so good luck on breaking through aerials with it, since you have to 'hit their hitbox first'. The best way I can think of to set it up so you're next to your opponent's hitbox is to do it out of a spindash combo. It's far more reliable than F-air for damage then because people won't DI out of an N-air since it's only 1 hit.

 

[MarKO X]

Nair is good for refreshing by 1.

Besides, what is it? 11% in the initial frames, 8% in the next set, and 5% in the last... kinda good... but because of it's lackluster range.

Delay-Nair the happy airdodgers that airdodge only because you're in the air with them. Free 5% damage, take what you can get.

And Nair is like S3&K insta-shield, which imo was an awesome attack for that game. It had invincibility frames... if only if only.

 

[Napilopez]

F-air and I think U-air are all faster than N-air.

try doing a SH insta-F-air and starting another aerial. N-air won't start before you land, but F-air and U-air will (I think).

N-air is kind of... not disjointed, so good luck on breaking through aerials with it, since you have to 'hit their hitbox first'. The best way I can think of to set it up so you're next to your opponent's hitbox is to do it out of a spindash combo. It's far more reliable than F-air for damage then because people won't DI out of an N-air since it's only 1 hit.

You misinterpretted my post ='( =P. I didn't imply that Nair could "break" through other aerials. I actually kinda implied the opposite. I made a misteak in my original post though, you have to hit your oppnents hurtbox, not hitbox first. But anyways what I said was "use Nair if you're in right in someones face, particularly if that char has fast aerials". I was saying how it could be useful if your opponent is right next to you. In situations where you are relatively close to the ground, I would consider it a better option than fair or uair, because you can fastfall it without horrendous landing lag.

As for the attack speed however, I'm not sure of totally sure either, but f anything its not considerably slower than fair or uair. I just say this because I do a lot of random testing in the WiFi practice stage, and if I was close enough to sandbag, it seemed to come out immediately as I pressed A, but that isn't exactly quantitative data lol.

Anyways, I still think Nair is a good option if you are in your face. It isn't going to win battles in the air, but is useful from shorthops, or from the ground imediately into an aerial. I find its knockback in general to be good to string into(in any of the three hits), and once more, negligible landing lag.

EDIT: I know that DJbrowny's method of frame data has been questioned, but it should still function well in terms of relativity within Sonic's own moveset. According to his data, Fair comes out at frame 4, while Uair and Nair come out at frame 5, so I guess you were kinda right. He says Nair has 13 frames of landing lag, which I think is too much, but not sure. So yea, Nair is still useful because of its low landing lag, longlasting hitbox, and stringable nockbacks imo. But in the end it comes down to player choice.

 

[Rhyfelwyr]

A few more test results. A fastfall N-air to jab comes out almost the same time as an auto-canceled F-air to jab.

An N-air could be used as a reliable short hop approach against characters who can crouch to avoid the F-air.

If you're being juggled, a fastfall N-air can be an excellent defensive tactic against someone who's good at punishing your airdodge landings.

 

[thecatinthehat]

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[Camalange]

God bless you Cat.