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My views of Squirtle's Moves

Niched

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Here
Okay, first of all, I'm certain there is a thread for this already. The reason I am creating this tread is so that people can see how I view the moves and hopefully tell me where I am going wrong. Second of all, I hope that a few people will find this moderately useful. Third, this is where I'm going to put questions about moves. Fourth, please remember that I am less skilled than you. Finally, I will make other threads for the other pokemon, unless this flops. Please respond with comments and advice!

Format:

Move:
Overall Effectiveness:
How Often I use It:
Why:

Squirtle:

Jab
I use this fairly often. It has great speed, good range and fairly good knockback. It also has almost no startup lag. It can't really be punished, and is good at close range. Also good is a 2 jab cancel into a d-tilt or U-tilt combo.


Dash Attack
I don't use this that much. It doesn't do a lot of damage, and it has good range, but lots of ending lag. Low knockback, too. Not that great.


F-Tilt
I never use this attack. I feel that Squritles Jab is better in every way. F-tilt has less speed, Same Range, Same damage, less knockback... completely inferior.


U-Tilt
A quite good move. Quick, low ending lag, easily chains with itself at low percentages. As mentioned above, 2 jab cancels.


D-Tilt
I love this move! Duck under an attack, do good damage with decent knockback and knock them into the air, where they are easily short hop D-aired!


F-Smash
Okay kill move. Lots of lag, but Super armor and great knockback. Good at higher percents for catching spotdodgers off guard.


U-smash
Squirtles bread and butter move. Huge range, damage, knockback. Disjointed knockback. Shellshifting. This move is great and an awsome kill move. I often play against Ganondorf. I find this is perfect to counter thunderstomps (for a star ko :chuckle:).


D-smash
I find this move less useful than F-Smash. Comes out faster, but still large ending lag, less SA, less knockback, less damage... I don't use it much.


N-Air
I think this is squirtles least useful aerial. Tiny knockback, low damage, and D-air does the multi hit thing better. I don't every really use it.


F-Air
A decent aerial. Great knockback on sweetspot and sex kick, so i use it as a good kill move. Decent damage and range, too.


B-Air
F-Air, only less so and behind him.


D-Air
A good damage racker with decent knockback. Good for short hops and set up for F-air KO's (due to horizontal knockback) I use it often.


Grab
Running grab laggy, Pivot grab nothing, grab fast. I only really use b-throw/ F-throw to get them off the stage, U-throw at low damage into a D-air, and D-throw as a kill move.


B
Waterfall. Uncharged damage not so useful (no knockback) and gimposity high when charged, but i'm not so good at it so i don't use it much.


Side B
Free 6%, usually, and invicibility, but easily punished so i don't use it much.


Down B
Duh.


Up B
As a damage racker, good with a large, disjointed hitbox and long animation with lots of damage and decent knockback at the end. As a recovery move, not so good at vertical but decent at horizontal recovery.


So there you have it. Again, comment, give advice, but don't flame. (and please don't lock this or ban me!).
 

Toby.

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
3,156
Location
South of the border, west of the sun.
Welcome to the boards.

I'm far too tired to comment on all the aspects of your post, but I'll begin by saying that you are way way way off on a lot of moves. That's ok though, it's to be expected from somebody new to the character.

I'm sure somebody will be here soon to elaborate on my point :)

sleeeeeeep
 

Steeler

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
5,930
Location
Wichita
NNID
Steeler
check out the stickied thread by reflex called "professor notes" or something
 

Vermy

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
2,115
Location
Hellburn.
Bread and Papenut butter sounds correct.

On topic, welcome to the boards Niched. *wonders how to pronounce that*

Have a good look around, there's a lot to be read up on. Its best not to post new threads, but seek information/opinions in the Q&A thread and to an extent the social thread. That being said, I'd suggest that you'd add your opinions on the other pokemons movesets in one of the previously mentioned threads.

Ftilt is amazing.
You forgot Uair which is also amazing.
There's no such thing as Squirtle having a useless aerial.
Knowledge = Skill
To put it bluntly, being an astrologist doesn't mean you're an amazing astronaut.
 

Bestiarius

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
694
Location
Right behind you.
Yeah, welcome to the boards, but, like previously mentioned, check out the Professor's Notes that's stickied or maybe the tactical forum threads. There's one here on the boards for each of the pokes.
 

dre_89_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
73
Correct me if I'm wrong on these-

The reason that ftilt is so popular is apart from the fact it's quick and virtually unpunishable, it pretty much always links into jab combos. There's probably other reasons I don't know about.

Nair is good because it is relatively safe and has a large hitbox, and is good to use so you don't stale other killing aerials such as fair and bair. It also has no landing lag which means you can use it on a shield and then exploit Squirtle's one frame jab which will come out before they can shieldgrabg you. I may be wrong on that though.

I don't think dtilt is as good as you made it out to be, it's not too popular at the moment and there usually are better options. Definitely not as good as ftilt.

There just some basic things I picked up on, but I'm not a pro so correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Timothy2035

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Messages
307
Location
On a Nebulae...called M78.
Okay, first of all, I'm certain there is a thread for this already. The reason I am creating this tread is so that people can see how I view the moves and hopefully tell me where I am going wrong. Second of all, I hope that a few people will find this moderately useful. Third, this is where I'm going to put questions about moves. Fourth, please remember that I am less skilled than you. Finally, I will make other threads for the other pokemon, unless this flops. Please respond with comments and advice!

Format:

Move:
Overall Effectiveness:
How Often I use It:
Why:

Squirtle:

Jab
I use this fairly often. It has great speed, good range and fairly good knockback. It also has almost no startup lag. It can't really be punished, and is good at close range. Also good is a 2 jab cancel into a d-tilt or U-tilt combo.


Dash Attack
I don't use this that much. It doesn't do a lot of damage, and it has good range, but lots of ending lag. Low knockback, too. Not that great.


F-Tilt
I never use this attack. I feel that Squritles Jab is better in every way. F-tilt has less speed, Same Range, Same damage, less knockback... completely inferior.


U-Tilt
A quite good move. Quick, low ending lag, easily chains with itself at low percentages. As mentioned above, 2 jab cancels.


D-Tilt
I love this move! Duck under an attack, do good damage with decent knockback and knock them into the air, where they are easily short hop D-aired!


F-Smash
Okay kill move. Lots of lag, but Super armor and great knockback. Good at higher percents for catching spotdodgers off guard.


U-smash
Squirtles bread and butter move. Huge range, damage, knockback. Disjointed knockback. Shellshifting. This move is great and an awsome kill move. I often play against Ganondorf. I find this is perfect to counter thunderstomps (for a star ko :chuckle:).


D-smash
I find this move less useful than F-Smash. Comes out faster, but still large ending lag, less SA, less knockback, less damage... I don't use it much.


N-Air
I think this is squirtles least useful aerial. Tiny knockback, low damage, and D-air does the multi hit thing better. I don't every really use it.


F-Air
A decent aerial. Great knockback on sweetspot and sex kick, so i use it as a good kill move. Decent damage and range, too.


B-Air
F-Air, only less so and behind him.


D-Air
A good damage racker with decent knockback. Good for short hops and set up for F-air KO's (due to horizontal knockback) I use it often.


Grab
Running grab laggy, Pivot grab nothing, grab fast. I only really use b-throw/ F-throw to get them off the stage, U-throw at low damage into a D-air, and D-throw as a kill move.


B
Waterfall. Uncharged damage not so useful (no knockback) and gimposity high when charged, but i'm not so good at it so i don't use it much.


Side B
Free 6%, usually, and invicibility, but easily punished so i don't use it much.


Down B
Duh.


Up B
As a damage racker, good with a large, disjointed hitbox and long animation with lots of damage and decent knockback at the end. As a recovery move, not so good at vertical but decent at horizontal recovery.


So there you have it. Again, comment, give advice, but don't flame. (and please don't lock this or ban me!).
I haven't been here in a loongg time so some people are definitely new to me. The Squirtle neutral air is a great over the edge counter to hit a character with if they are trying to recover. If the percentage is high enough, it can do a knockback to kill. I forget what the range number is, but if you try it around the 142 to 160 mark, you may strike gold.

Back air is great for getting in for approaches and you can spam that more than f tilt. Pretty good against Zeldas. The pointing tail means you have less chance of getting hit by her and some others that can be forceful or agressive play characters.

The 2 jabs to cancel into down air is new to me. Haven't heard of that one before so I will try that out sometime.
 

MaTA

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 30, 2009
Messages
593
Location
British Columbia, Canada
NNID
MatisElite
F-Air
A decent aerial. Great knockback on sweetspot and sex kick, so i use it as a good kill move. Decent damage and range, too.




This move is a baby maker...its almost too good.
 

Kith

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
858
Location
Miami, FL
Correct me if I'm wrong on these-

The reason that ftilt is so popular is apart from the fact it's quick and virtually unpunishable, it pretty much always links into jab combos. There's probably other reasons I don't know about.

Nair is good because it is relatively safe and has a large hitbox, and is good to use so you don't stale other killing aerials such as fair and bair. It also has no landing lag which means you can use it on a shield and then exploit Squirtle's one frame jab which will come out before they can shieldgrabg you. I may be wrong on that though.

I don't think dtilt is as good as you made it out to be, it's not too popular at the moment and there usually are better options. Definitely not as good as ftilt.

There just some basic things I picked up on, but I'm not a pro so correct me if I'm wrong.
F-tilt can link into jab combos, but ftilt's range and speed make it a great spacing move. Also, an unsweetspotted backair or forward air can easily link into a ftilt at lower percentages, which can lead into more stuff as long as you're quick enough
 

Retro Gaming

Black and White Thinking
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
1,088
Location
Iowa City, IA
So there you have it. Again, comment, give advice, but don't flame. (and please don't lock this or ban me!).
This is the best quote ever. You just gave me a reason to use a signature again.

This has really little discussion value, but its not really against any rules so it can stay for a while. At least until he responds again.
 

PokemonMasterIRL

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 6, 2007
Messages
3,001
Location
Popping and locking butt naked.
Welcome to the boards.

I'm far too tired to comment on all the aspects of your post, but I'll begin by saying that you are way way way off on a lot of moves. That's ok though, it's to be expected from somebody new to the character.

I'm sure somebody will be here soon to elaborate on my point :)

sleeeeeeep
I stopped reading after his Ftilt summary.


I then walked to my balcony slit my wrists and jumped off.
 

CoonTail

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,554
Location
Long Island, NY
Ugh miles be nice...but yes in short man before you made this post you really should have taken a look into the 90927492749230 threads on all this. Youve got alot to learn so be careful about what you post or miles and typh will come in and make sure your seen as a fool for a while LOL.

No but honestly searching information before you post is key and if you dont then your at the mercy of your own foolishness
 

Niched

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
2
Location
Here
Ugh miles be nice...but yes in short man before you made this post you really should have taken a look into the 90927492749230 threads on all this. Youve got alot to learn so be careful about what you post or miles and typh will come in and make sure your seen as a fool for a while LOL.

No but honestly searching information before you post is key and if you dont then your at the mercy of your own foolishness
Mercy of my own foolishness? I only put my own opinion so I could be told where I was going wrong! My thanks to dre_89_ for actually helping, instead of pointing me to another thread (which i've read but don't necessarily agree with) or telling me I'm an idiot.
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
No need to get testy, Niched. Generally the responses new people get when they make threads is like is to go check existing threads. It's fine if you have different opinions on moves. There's a general acceptance that some moves are better than others, but frankly with PT being three characters, there's plenty of room for different playstyles.
 

T-block

B2B TST
Joined
Jan 11, 2009
Messages
11,841
Location
Edmonton, AB, Canada
.____.

anything that we could say about where you went wrong is already said in the thread we were talking about. don't expect us to spend time correcting you when you could get the same information from reading something that's already been typed up. if there are certain moves that you don't agree with, maybe you could bring those up specifically, because honestly, most of our responses were pretty nice
 

Vermy

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
2,115
Location
Hellburn.
Niched, none of us actually called you an idiot.

A lot of us were very understanding about you being new, and to help we directed you to somewhere you could get it without any chance of being flamed. That's what the Q&A thread is for.

And if you disagree with us (who know what we're talking about, mind you) then what's the point in asking in the first place? We've been quite hospitable and T-Block was just trying to help, Ice **** even asked Miles (PokemonMasterIRL, who is THE professor of all things PT) to be nice to you. For a first impression it doesn't seem to be going too well, so lets see some friendly discussion, kay?

Now as in depth as your analysis was, there are a few errors in relation to which moves are better/used for etc. Squirtle tactical discussion is probably the best place to start.

Again, we'd like to help, but first you've got to listen and take criticism with a grain of salt.

Edited: fixed for you, Coontang. ;)
 

CoonTail

Smash Lord
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
1,554
Location
Long Island, NY
-Lol vermy it was me who asked miles to be nice but I in short Niched if you wanna get mad over this man then you have an even LONGER road to get across.

As far as where you went wrong, take a look in the squirtle tactical discussion like earlier stated and understand that the rest of us are in a tournament mindset. New people dont understand the concept of HIGHEST LEVEL OF PLAY. So you can choose to not agree with the threads that were already made but they access all squirtles moves in accordance to how effective they are in tourny.

Ive been nice and understanding and if you wanna get mad fine but just dont ask for help and opinions if you honestly dont want to hear them
 

tankzortz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
104
Location
SoCal
im just stating something. but i fair isn't a good kill move. its hard to ko with. i would think that uair would be a good kill move
 

Zigsta

Disney Film Director
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
8,316
Location
Burbank, CA
NNID
Zigsta
3DS FC
1547-5526-6811
im just stating something. but i fair isn't a good kill move. its hard to ko with. i would think that uair would be a good kill move
It's just a matter of which move you're staling more. If you use fair as the majority of your approaches, you'll have a harder time KOing with it.
 

Vermy

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2007
Messages
2,115
Location
Hellburn.
Fair will KO fresh. Eg. Charizard just died, your opponent is on kill %.

But no aerial should be "fresh" if you've been playing squirtle a whole stock.

Uair is a sick juggler/combo string starter.

Fair is just amazing in general and saving it is a little silly, considering its versatility.
 

WolfenMiatang

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
161
F-Air
A decent aerial. Great knockback on sweetspot and sex kick, so i use it as a good kill move. Decent damage and range, too.




This move is a baby maker...its almost too good.
I have to agree ^_^
I just sometimes have a tendecy to spam it couple of times :ohwell:

Also as D-air, IMO I think its a great move if someone tries to get up a cliff after recovering but with only big characters...I think :urg:
 
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