My Take on Tripping

[Koskinator]

Ever since tripping was discovered everyone says its completely random. I think there is certain aspects of gameplay that can trigger it. I have just been playing and i go to dash and i can tell im going to trip before it happens. From what I can tell it is any of the following:

1. A dash attack/grab inputted too quickly
2. Attacking for a long period of time and then dashing.
3. Dash Dancing
4. Tech followed by dash.

The thing is, it is technically impossible for tripping to be random. No computer can create a random effect, it is all a pattern, however large it may be. Next time your playing pay attention to these factors and see if you notice anything I have.

 

[6footninja]

Yes, well said. Way to put out the information for the "unenlightened".

 

[RedMage8BT]

Tripping saved my life. True story. I was running from Captain Falcon who had just gotten the Smash Ball, he activated the final smash, but I tripped, which forced me out of the range of the Final Smash.

Tripping sure does own.

 

[Koskinator]

nice to see im not the only one experiencing this

 

[Gilgamesh]

I fully expected a video of you tripping in real life. I make my leave now, to Dissapointment Towne.

 

[jngshin]

well, until we see a video of people actually calling out when they will trip or not, it is still random. I actually think all these tripping threads are a waste of space and effort, until someone can definitively prove/disprove the randomness of tripping. everything is just half-***** speculation over and over

 

[phanna]

It's also been observed on the attempted fsmashes of some chars, such as Ike.

The main reason I posted though, is that in conversation about "random" events in video games & life overall, the only aspect of life believed to be truly random involves the path that particles / waves of light take in certain experiments. There is nothing to gain by starting a conversationt rying to distinguish "programmed random occurances" as either "chaotic" or "truly random." The following statement is undoubtedly factual:

For the instances in Brawl where an action can result in tripping, whether or not it actually does is randomly determined by the game.

Edit: for those who have not seen the related experiment where, given the exact same, simultaneous inputs, one player would trip while the others did not:

YouTube: Tripping is Random

 

[Koskinator]

It's also been observed on the attempted fsmashes of some chars, such as Ike.

The main reason I posted though, is that in conversation about "random" events in video games & life overall, the only aspect of life believed to be truly random involves the path that particles / waves of light take in certain experiments. There is nothing to gain by starting a conversationt rying to distinguish "programmed random occurances" as either "chaotic" or "truly random." The following statement is undoubtedly factual:

For the instances in Brawl where an action can result in tripping, whether or not it actually does is randomly determined by the game.

Ah but you see, there is no computer or electronic device in existence that can truly generate anything random. It will be a huge pattern, millions of actions long, but it is a pattern

 

[Zek]

You're imagining things, it's random. Last I checked the stats points to it being a 1% chance to trip every time you smash the control stick, either for dashing or smash attacks. I'm all ears if you can prove otherwise.

The thing is, it is technically impossible for tripping to be random. No computer can create a random effect, it is all a pattern, however large it may be. Next time your playing pay attention to these factors and see if you notice anything I have.

lol. No, it's not "technically" random, but if it's impossible for a human to predict it then it might as well be. In reality random numbers in a computer are usually a function of the system clock, probably down to the milliseconds. There's no way you can control it.

 

[NDUDE]

Very first time I ever tripped was in the first GameStop tourney. I was Pit, and I tripped into Ike so that his FSmash went right past me. I just rolled out of the way and carried on. =P Sometimes it can be small, and other times it can be game-changing. It's a mechanic we just have to get used to and take advantage of when we can...

 

[that 1 guy]

Ever since tripping was discovered everyone says its completely random. I think there is certain aspects of gameplay that can trigger it. I have just been playing and i go to dash and i can tell im going to trip before it happens. From what I can tell it is any of the following:

1. A dash attack/grab inputted too quickly
2. Attacking for a long period of time and then dashing.
3. Dash Dancing
4. Tech followed by dash.

The thing is, it is technically impossible for tripping to be random. No computer can create a random effect, it is all a pattern, however large it may be. Next time your playing pay attention to these factors and see if you notice anything I have.

I have personally written programs that will pick out random numbers. So no it's not impossible. Unless my memory is flawed for some reason.

 

[Koskinator]

I have personally written programs that will pick out random numbers. So no it's not impossible. Unless my memory is flawed for some reason.

it wouldnt be a random number, if you wrote down each and every number it picked, eventually you would get a pattern going

 

[Stewie1288]

^^

Yeah, if you wrote down every number. So if we recorded every trip in brawl ever, we would see a pattern, but how long would it take to find one? What would that tell us once we had it? Is everyone going to have a huge list next to them while they play they can look over and know exactly when they're going to trip? That would be seriously handy in a fast-paced game where seconds count.

/sarcasm

 

[ComradeSAL]

Ah but you see, there is no computer or electronic device in existence that can truly generate anything random. It will be a huge pattern, millions of actions long, but it is a pattern

This is not a valid argument. The question is not whether tripping is "true random" or not; the question is whether you can actually predict whether you will trip during a match. If you cannot predict when you will trip, then whatever tripping algorithm the game is using is indistinguishable from true random for all practical purposes.

 

[Digital Limit]

Heh, this is ********.

 

[Rufeo]

Ever since tripping was discovered everyone says its completely random. I think there is certain aspects of gameplay that can trigger it. I have just been playing and i go to dash and i can tell im going to trip before it happens. From what I can tell it is any of the following:

1. A dash attack/grab inputted too quickly
2. Attacking for a long period of time and then dashing.
3. Dash Dancing
4. Tech followed by dash.

The thing is, it is technically impossible for tripping to be random. No computer can create a random effect, it is all a pattern, however large it may be. Next time your playing pay attention to these factors and see if you notice anything I have.

But you'll notice that all those have sideways movement. I've actually noticed myself tripping the most just from any sideways movement whether it's walking or dashing from a standing position. I've also tripped a lot doing smash attacks. So I just assume if your making any kind of sideways movement you might trip. I also think that people should stop worrying so much about it so much (even though it was a horrible idea) cause there most likely isn't a way around it.

And another thing. The programmers aren't stupid if they intended tripping to be random you're not going to notice a discernable pattern and even if you did you can do more test and it will probably go the other way.

This explains some basic things about computer randomization.
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question697.htm

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I heard that the character you use also has an effect. Have you noticed any patterns that might support that?

And, forgive me if I sound nitpicky but, just because a computer cannot create a random effect doesn't mean we control all aspects of the game (i.e. tripping). I'm just restating what ComradeSAL said. Even the roll of a die is not truly random; the variety of aspects of physics that eventually determine the result are just beyond us.

Does anybody else wonder what the intent was behind the inclusion of tripping?

 

[shadydentist]

For our intents and purposes, its random. I remember in the old days some guy was claiming he could control G&W's nine hammer, but nothing ever came of that. Unless you can show that the pattern can be predicted, we will treat tripping as random.

 

[Rufeo]

Does anybody else wonder what the intent was behind the inclusion of tripping?

I was thinking it was to give poeple a chance. For example there were pleny of times where I could have gone in for a kill but I tripped and they lived. But tripping could also get you killed. And they couldn't have made the winning player trip more often.

 

[bronxboi87]

This is not a valid argument. The question is not whether tripping is "true random" or not; the question is whether you can actually predict whether you will trip during a match. If you cannot predict when you will trip, then whatever tripping algorithm the game is using is indistinguishable from true random for all practical purposes.

well said sir

 

[GreenMarth]

even if its not random we will never be able to (practically, like say during a match...) predict or prevent it...so i say live with it

i also say its the WORST part of the game engine

but hey BRAWL IS GREAT!

 

[691175002]

This argument over tripping not being random because computers cannot generate random numbers is pure idiocy. To begin with, it is not even relevant, nor is it completely true.

First, even random number generators of pathetic complexity are impossible for a human to predict. The Mersenne Twister algorithm has been proven to produce unique sequences longer than 10^6001 numbers long. Secondly, since you seem to want to be technical here, computers can generate stronger random numbers by seeding a generator with readings that are about as random as you can get, such as harddrive seek times, noise in temperature sensors, fan speeds etc.

If you want to be anal about it, any event can be predicted with enough math. A toss of a dice can be calculated assuming you know all forces acting upon the dice and have an incredible amount of computational power.

Brawls randoms are probably seeded by the on time in milliseconds, good luck trying to guess the seed (And the algorithm they use to generate the randoms, and being able to calculate every random before the game does and match them up with future events). I think that it has been pretty well shown that even if certain actions increase the probability of tripping, it is still very random.

 

[Rufeo]

This argument over tripping not being random because computers cannot generate random numbers is pure idiocy. To begin with, it is not even relevant, nor is it completely true.

First, even random number generators of pathetic complexity are impossible for a human to predict. The Mersenne Twister algorithm has been proven to produce unique sequences longer than 10^6001 numbers long. Secondly, since you seem to want to be technical here, computers can generate stronger random numbers by seeding a generator with readings that are about as random as you can get, such as harddrive seek times, noise in temperature sensors, fan speeds etc.

If you want to be anal about it, any event can be predicted with enough math. A toss of a dice can be calculated assuming you know all forces acting upon the dice and have an incredible amount of computational power.

Brawls randoms are probably seeded by the on time in milliseconds, good luck trying to guess the seed (And the algorithm they use to generate the randoms, and being able to calculate every random before the game does and match them up with future events). I think that it has been pretty well shown that even if certain actions increase the probability of tripping, it is still very random.

If this post doesn't end this debate on whether tripping is random and if it can be predicted, nothing will.

 

[Spyda]

sounds like you said every possibility we have.... what else can we do? taunt? T-T

 

[bylim5]

that last thing sakurai wanted to do is piss people off regarding gameplay. i always knew there was an explanation

 

[mister_subarashi]

Now for a little randomness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmCtH2QTsPw

 

[Zook]

Koskinator, are you saying that the Luigi's misfire isn't random?

I say that tripping is, infact, random. I've tripped while walking across the stage. I've tripped after attacking, then running. I've tripped right after the announcer says 'Go.'

Of course, there could be a patern. But, what is the point in finding it?

 

[Lib3r4t3]

Tripping made me lose in my best record of Cruel Brawl. :/ I even have a replay of it.

 

[Tek32]

I've noticed that if you normally smash the analog to dash as soon as you have "respawned" you usually trip, or at least I do x.o