My Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Tier List!!!

[Lucas Harder]

I know I'm not a competitive player of any kind, but this is my prediction of what I think the Ultimate tier list will look like. I should note that the characters ranked in High, Mid, Low, and Bottom are not ranked. The only characters I actually ranked are the characters in the Top Tier. Also, take this list with a grain of salt because I might totally be wrong once the game is out, and with patches that could come to the game could change everything. Also, the characters in the "???" tier are characters I couldn't rank because their wasn't a lot of footage I could find for those characters [Little Mac and Chrom are their because of their recoveries]. But yeah, heres my tier list:

https://imgur.com/7qo80PR

 

[Musha4DaWin]

Wait until a moderator comes. I’d recommend the general forums for this.
But anyway, I sort of agree.

 

[Crystanium]

Samus only received three nerfs, one of which can be considered neutral, making her nerfs down to two, and twenty buffs. Yet, she's bottom tier. Right, that makes a lot of sense. Unlike a lot of characters who lost their down throw combo set-up, Samus still has it, even if her dash attack no longer leads into combos. I wish some professional players would cut back on their YouTube content. I know they want to make cash, but there are better ways of doing that.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Samus only received three nerfs, one of which can be considered neutral, making her nerfs down to two, and twenty buffs. Yet, she's bottom tier. Right, that makes a lot of sense. Unlike a lot of characters who lost their down throw combo set-up, Samus still has it, even if her dash attack no longer leads into combos. I wish some professional players would cut back on their YouTube content. I know they want to make cash, but there are better ways of doing that.

Let's face it, Samus hasn't been good in much Smash games. Really the only time Samus has ever been good was Melee, other then that, Samus is a really technical character to use, as well as having a terrible recovery. I think Samus is definitely bottom tier, especially since top level Smash players like ZeRo and ESAM would agree with me.

 

[Izanagi97]

Let's face it, Samus hasn't been good in much Smash games. Really the only time Samus has ever been good was Melee, other then that, Samus is a really technical character to use, as well as having a terrible recovery. I think Samus is definitely bottom tier, especially since top level Smash players like ZeRo and ESAM would agree with me.

Just because Top Level players say it doesn't mean it's perfectly accurate. Too many people going into this with a Smash 4 mindset when the games function differently. It's why people were saying Fox was bad in the demo because his Side B was nerfed when it turned out that, surprise, Fox was still pretty badass.

 

[Crystanium]

Let's face it, Samus hasn't been good in much Smash games. Really the only time Samus has ever been good was Melee, other then that, Samus is a really technical character to use, as well as having a terrible recovery. I think Samus is definitely bottom tier, especially since top level Smash players like ZeRo and ESAM would agree with me.

Yeah, it looks like your tier list is straight from ZeRo's. I remember him having King Dedede, Samus, and Dark Samus at the bottom. Well, here's the thing. ZeRo doesn't main Samus. He doesn't give her the time of day, and the times he has used her, he's used her incorrectly. ESAM has also at least retracted his initial opinion about Dark Samus and thinks she's better than he thought. The game isn't even out yet, and people are making tier lists. This is a terrible mistake, especially since one person's opinion can and often is wrong.

Samus was at least low mid tier in SSB4, which is much better than her SSBB days. Let's not forget potential patches, too. People like ZeRo and ESAM are producing a lot of videos just to get views and money. And besides, when ZeRo took a Dark Samus player and Pikachu player and made an opinion about Dark Samus, he failed to provide any evidence that this player even used Samus before, let alone was good. From my judgment as a Samus main, that Dark Samus didn't look like he knew what he was doing.

Oh, and terrible recovery? Samus has one of the best recoveries. If you're going to edge-guard her, you'd better be pretty damn good at it. That assertion alone really hurt your point of view.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Yeah, it looks like your tier list is straight from ZeRo's. I remember him having King Dedede, Samus, and Dark Samus at the bottom. Well, here's the thing. ZeRo doesn't main Samus. He doesn't give her the time of day, and the times he has used her, he's used her incorrectly. ESAM has also at least retracted his initial opinion about Dark Samus and thinks she's better than he thought. The game isn't even out yet, and people are making tier lists. This is a terrible mistake, especially since one person's opinion can and often is wrong.

Samus was at least low mid tier in SSB4, which is much better than her SSBB days. Let's not forget potential patches, too. People like ZeRo and ESAM are producing a lot of videos just to get views and money. And besides, when ZeRo took a Dark Samus player and Pikachu player and made an opinion about Dark Samus, he failed to provide any evidence that this player even used Samus before, let alone was good. From my judgment as a Samus main, that Dark Samus didn't look like he knew what he was doing.

Oh, and terrible recovery? Samus has one of the best recoveries. If you're going to edge-guard her, you'd better be pretty damn good at it. That assertion alone really hurt your point of view.

You're just saying she's good because she is your main in every Smash game and the funny part is that you're not saying what makes her so good. She is a sluggish character with slow frame data, and what makes her recovery good? Maybe she could be good, but right now we are gonna have to wait and see until the game comes out. Right now none of us have the game in our hands so we're gonna have to wait and see where the metagame goes.

 

[Manonymous]

You're just saying she's good because she is your main in every Smash game and the funny part is that you're not saying what makes her so good. She is a sluggish character with slow frame data, and what makes her recovery good? Maybe she could be good, but right now we are gonna have to wait and see until the game comes out. Right now none of us have the game in our hands so we're gonna have to wait and see where the metagame goes.

It works for you too, since you don't have the game yet, you can't make tier list.

 

[Izanagi97]

It works for you too, since you don't have the game yet, you can't make tier list.

And besides, I'd imagine a Samus main would know a lot more about Samus than one who doesn't main her

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

In before someone makes a joke tier list putting their favorite fighter in their own tier as number one.

I actually agree with the ordering of these characters, but I don't think we will see 17 and 21 fighters in Top and High tiers respectively when an official tier list comes out. I can't judge it too harshly because I have never played, but I watch as many Smash Ultimate matches as I can.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that like Crystanium said, I think characters that still have down throw combos, characters that can rack up that damage quickly, characters that are good in neutral, (Samus, and now hopefully Zelda) are going to have a better chance in this engine.

Also, I notice, players like Zero tend to overhype the characters THEY like most of the time. Like, Zero hasn't even given characters like Zelda the time of day at all, only saying she is good because everyone else said so, like really?

One more thing I have to say, im really tired of tier list speculation being taken so seriously rn, the game isnt released yet, we dont have concrete info yet, and everyone seems to be making tier list to get some sort of attention (views, revunue) and watch, as soon as a official tier list gets released we are going to have a lot of dissapointed people, because they were relying to heavily on top level player tier lists.

 

[Lucas Harder]

It works for you too, since you don't have the game yet, you can't make tier list.

Exactly why I said to take the list with a grain of salt. Its almost like you guys can't read. -_-

 

[Crystanium]

You're just saying she's good because she is your main in every Smash game and the funny part is that you're not saying what makes her so good. She is a sluggish character with slow frame data, and what makes her recovery good? Maybe she could be good, but right now we are gonna have to wait and see until the game comes out. Right now none of us have the game in our hands so we're gonna have to wait and see where the metagame goes.

I didn't say she was good. I doubt she's bottom tier just because her dash attack doesn't lead into combos. She still has her down throw combo set-up, something taken from many characters in SSBU. Her dash now has kill potential like that of Peach's and Cloud's. Just because Samus is my main is irrelevant. This is an appeal to motive, a circumstantial ad hominem.

Samus' recovery is good due to her bombs delaying her descent, her tether grab, and her screw attack. I've spiked opponents who tried spiking me as I returned to the stage. Samus also seems to have some improvement in her vertical height, which means she's going to be able to cover longer distances. If Luigi can recover as well as he does, there's no doubt Samus can, too.

As for the grain of salt, well, you name-dropped ZeRo and ESAM, so it looks to me like you initially took what they had to say as gospel.

 

[Lucas Harder]

I didn't say she was good. I doubt she's bottom tier just because her dash attack doesn't lead into combos. She still has her down throw combo set-up, something taken from many characters in SSBU. Her dash now has kill potential like that of Peach's and Cloud's. Just because Samus is my main is irrelevant. This is an appeal to motive, a circumstantial ad hominem.

Samus' recovery is good due to her bombs delaying her descent, her tether grab, and her screw attack. I've spiked opponents who tried spiking me as I returned to the stage. Samus also seems to have some improvement in her vertical height, which means she's going to be able to cover longer distances. If Luigi can recover as well as he does, there's no doubt Samus can, too.

As for the grain of salt, well, you name-dropped ZeRo and ESAM, so it looks to me like you initially took what they had to say as gospel.

Well considering the fact that they are some of the best Smash players in the world, then I will take their word for it. Their not just random people making tier lists, they have experience in the competitive side of Smash, and unlike us, they actually played the game numerous of times

 

[Crystanium]

Well considering the fact that they are some of the best Smash players in the world, then I will take their word for it. Their not just random people making tier lists, they have experience in the competitive side of Smash, and unlike us, they actually played the game numerous of times

ZeRo doesn't main Samus. ESAM is a Pikachu main who even used poor methods as Samus against a Corrin, according to IcyMist, who is considered the best solo Samus main. I'll wait to play the finished product, not a demo.

 

[osby]

Lucina: Top tier
Marth: High tier

...why?

 

[Lucas Harder]

ZeRo doesn't main Samus. ESAM is a Pikachu main who even used poor methods as Samus against a Corrin, according to IcyMist, who is considered the best solo Samus main. I'll wait to play the finished product, not a demo.

Fair enough.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Lucina: Top tier
Marth: High tier

...why?

This was something I was struggling with, but I decided to do that because Lucina just overall has a better tipper then Marth does.

 

[osby]

This was something I was struggling with, but I decided to do that because Lucina just overall has a better tipper then Marth does.

Lucina's Falchion doesn't have a tipper.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Lucina's Falchion doesn't have a tipper.

I've heard that from some competitive players, but then again we might as well wait and see how all the characters function.

 

[Orlando BCN]

I've heard that from some competitive players, but then again we might as well wait and see how all the characters function.

It’s common knowledge that Lucina’s sword hitbox has the same strength throughout. Waiting is not necessary, and honestly she and Marth should switch places on your tier list.

 

[Izanagi97]

ZeRo doesn't main Samus. ESAM is a Pikachu main who even used poor methods as Samus against a Corrin, according to IcyMist, who is considered the best solo Samus main. I'll wait to play the finished product, not a demo.

Also, didn't he end up having one of the least accurate early Smash 4 tier lists?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This is pretty inaccurate and doesn't incorporate any of the nerfs and buffs that fighters have received. If anything a bunch of these fighters should be switch, and this only has like what, 4 different tier placements? Half of the cast being "top tier?" Is this a joke?

 

[Crystanium]

Also, didn't he end up having one of the least accurate early Smash 4 tier lists?

I don't know. I started playing SSB4 in April 2016. I had catching up to do. I did manage to play ZeRo on FG, but I lost. It wasn't bad. I did fairly well in spite of losing. I would have preferred another match, but ZeRo left.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Also, didn't he end up having one of the least accurate early Smash 4 tier lists?

That was before patches

 

[Lucas Harder]

I don't know. I started playing SSB4 in April 2016. I had catching up to do. I did manage to play ZeRo on FG, but I lost. It wasn't bad. I did fairly well in spite of losing. I would have preferred another match, but ZeRo left.

So you actually went up against ZeRo himself? If thats the case then maybe you are that skilled with Samus. That's impressive!

 

[Lucas Harder]

This is pretty inaccurate and doesn't incorporate any of the nerfs and buffs that fighters have received. If anything a bunch of these fighters should be switch, and this only has like what, 4 different tier placements? Half of the cast being "top tier?" Is this a joke?

Like I said, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[osby]

So you actually went up against ZeRo himself? If thats the case then maybe you are that skilled with Samus. That's impressive!

ZeRo once get bodied by a Palutena user because he thought trying to return the stage with Monkey Flip 20th time was a smart strategy.

Also, don't triple post.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I wouldn't be surprised if there were impostor ZeRos out there.

How does one know if they're fighting the real deal or someone who is close to their skill?

 

[Crystanium]

So you actually went up against ZeRo himself? If thats the case then maybe you are that skilled with Samus. That's impressive!

It was the real ZeRo. He uses a particular tag underneath by the name "Brandi" or "Brandy". Not only that, I told my brother to check Twitch to see if it was really ZeRo, and it was. What my brother saw on Twitch during the live stream was me. He was using Shulk at the time.

 

[Lucas Harder]

ZeRo once get bodied by a Palutena user because he thought trying to return the stage with Monkey Flip 20th time was a smart strategy.

Also, don't triple post.

Sorry didn't know that was a rule. :/ But thats some interesting info. I still think ZeRo is the standalone best Smash player in the world because of how much wins he has got, but I understand your opinion

 

[Lucas Harder]

It was the real ZeRo. He uses a particular tag underneath by the name "Brandi" or "Brandy". Not only that, I told my brother to check Twitch to see if it was really ZeRo, and it was. What my brother saw on Twitch during the live stream was me. He was using Shulk at the time.

That's cool.

 

[Rocketjay8]

That's cool.

Sorry didn't know that was a rule. :/ But thats some interesting info. I still think ZeRo is the standalone best Smash player in the world because of how much wins he has got, but I understand your opinion

You are going to get kicked out of this forum at this rate. I suggest that you combine all of you double and triple posts before you get a warning.

 

[Lucas Harder]

You are going to get kicked out of this forum at this rate. I suggest that you combine all of you double and triple posts before you get a warning.

I'm confused. I don't use SmashBoards that often so can someone explain what I'm doing that could get me kicked out?

 

[osby]

I'm confused. I don't use SmashBoards that often so can someone explain what I'm doing that could get me kicked out?

You shouldn't post more than once before someone else posts.

 

[Xphooni]

Samus only received three nerfs, one of which can be considered neutral, making her nerfs down to two, and twenty buffs. Yet, she's bottom tier. Right, that makes a lot of sense. Unlike a lot of characters who lost their down throw combo set-up, Samus still has it, even if her dash attack no longer leads into combos. I wish some professional players would cut back on their YouTube content. I know they want to make cash, but there are better ways of doing that.

Alright, you may be a decent samus player (not much way to prove the point) but what you don't seem to understand is the fact that tier list are based on meta and potential of a character. No person is going to have an accurate tier list without hours of game time or footage on a character. Tier lists are also someone's own personal opinion, if you look at a Melee tier list there will definitely be consistencies but they aren't all exactly the same. We also have several top players aside from Zer0 who say samus is much worse than any previous game sure esam may not be the best smash 4 samus player, but he understand well enough what each character has in their toolbox. Just because a character is low-tier doesn't mean they're bad per say, any character in the right hands can be good and win a major. For example look at plup's Luigi (mid tier but still) or m2k's pichu. A tier list, frame data, or certain advantages don't limit a characters potential, a player does. Never take tier lists that seriously. The creator of the thread said to not take his post that seriously, it's clearly something he did for fun. And for the record I've had a significant amount (8+ hours) of time with the game, and played a lot of samus in both smash four and melee and can definitely vouch for the fact that she is with out a doubt low tier at best if not bottom. You need to realize that samus doesn't work very well with the engine, this is nowhere close to smash 4s engine it's just not the same.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I'm confused. I don't use SmashBoards that often so can someone explain what I'm doing that could get me kicked out?

Put in a reply to everyone you want to reply to before posting. That's why people are saying you are likely going to get kicked. It doesn't matter if you quote two or even three people in one post. In fact, that's encouraged. Posting two or more times in rapid succession is against the rules.

 

[Crystanium]

Alright, you may be a decent samus player (not much way to prove the point) but what you don't seem to understand is the fact that tier list are based on meta and potential of a character.

I understand pretty well, actually.

No person is going to have an accurate tier list without hours of game time or footage on a character. Tier lists are also someone's own personal opinion, if you look at a Melee tier list there will definitely be consistencies but they aren't all exactly the same.

People can make their own personal tier list, but to think tier lists are "someone's own personal opinion" is false. A number of players come together and discuss each character. I can't say how it's done, since I'm not part of the Back Room, but I'd take a guess that frame data, match-ups, tournament results, and a number of other things are discussed.

We also have several top players aside from Zer0 who say samus is much worse than any previous game sure esam may not be the best smash 4 samus player, but he understand well enough what each character has in their toolbox.

ZeRo was a top player, but that's irrelevant to knowing a character. As for ESAM, I'll let ESAM speak for himself, rather than a stranger on a message board.

Just because a character is low-tier doesn't mean they're bad per say,

The reason why a character is placed specifically on a tier is based on facts about those characters.

any character in the right hands can be good and win a major. For example look at plup's Luigi (mid tier but still) or m2k's pichu.

And with regard to Plup's Luigi or M2K's Pichu, how consistent are these results? Sheik is a very good character in SSB4, but after her nerfs, the only player who has recently ever won a national tournament (Smash 'N' Splash 4) with Sheik was VoiD. And you can't dismiss VoiD as a bad player, since he's the best Sheik player in SSB4.

A tier list, frame data, or certain advantages don't limit a characters potential, a player does.

I disagree. You cannot change frame data, no matter how hard you try. It's fixed. Having numerous players play each character speeds up the process of who is actually good and who isn't. A player is only as good as his/her skill, strategies, and mindset. Yet, this same player can perform way better by picking up other characters at the cost of stigmatization, viz., "x is carried by y."

Never take tier lists that seriously.

I haven't since SSB4, probably because rage affects the outcome most of the time.

The creator of the thread said to not take his post that seriously, it's clearly something he did for fun. And for the record I've had a significant amount (8+ hours) of time with the game, and played a lot of samus in both smash four and melee and can definitely vouch for the fact that she is with out a doubt low tier at best if not bottom. You need to realize that samus doesn't work very well with the engine, this is nowhere close to smash 4s engine it's just not the same.

Like you said, tier lists are personal opinions. That's your words, not mine, and I don't believe you, but I might as well address your inconsistency. And for all I know, you don't even main Samus. Actually, from the looks of it, your character icon would suggest you don't.

 

[Lucas Harder]

Put in a reply to everyone you want to reply to before posting. That's why people are saying you are likely going to get kicked. It doesn't matter if you quote two or even three people in one post. In fact, that's encouraged. Posting two or more times in rapid succession is against the rules.

OK thanks for letting me know.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Can someone tell me what's so good about Olimar?