My Smash Corner Presents: Pikachu's Infinite Combo!

[Ragna22]

Umm, sorry to break this to you, but when people play in tournaments, they kinda don't care what the viewers think. They use whatever the character offers. And besides, look at Melee. Infinites exist, yet people are still watching it. Hmm...maybe it's because they're not disrupting the meta? There are times when infinites are useful and when they're not. You can't spend the entire match using an infinite and hope to win. As mentioned in the video, Pikachu has to damage the opponent before initiating the infinite. And Thunder Wave isn't a KO move, so nobody will be spending the entire match using a single move.
Also, it takes skill to use Pikachu, and this is no different. (Setting up this infinite isn't that easy, nor is maintaining that Thunder Wave for a long time, so don't expect this to be a meta-breaking problem.) Maybe it's cuz I'm a Pikachu main, but I find interest in the ability of a skillful Pikachu player to transition from racking up damage to an infinite to a kill. That's pretty awesome. Maybe not for the person who lost, but, hey, it'd look pretty epic still. (Another thing that might be "spectacular" is if a player beats a Pikachu despite the fact that it had used an infinite. The crowd would love that for sure. Maybe that could be you one day, if you stopped asking for a patch and started playing. )
Now, above all this, the fact that you are calling this "busted" and in need of patching concerns me. Jumping to the conclusion that an infinite is bad is, well, bad. Unless this proves to be an OP problem (think Meta Knight), then sure, we can consider banning. Until then, it's a part of the Smash 4 meta. Whether you find it interesting or not. Especially since everyone has different definitions of "fun" and "interesting". Now, for your assigned homework, I think you should learn what it means for something to be broken and game-breaking first. And if you still don't get it then I dunno what to tell you.

Alright I'll admit I was a little crazy at the time of my comment and I apologize, however I still don't like the idea of infinites and yes I understand that the competitors will exploit the hell out of them, but again, that doesn't mean I have to like it.
And yeah it does take skill to use Pikachu, just like it takes skill to use most of the other characters in the game, you'd be surprised what tourney players are capable of, they'll sit in the lab forever until they perfected this sort of thing, they have a few months to spare, they can do it.
And in my opinion, infinites of any kind are busted, it may take skill to use them, I understand, but I don't like them because they're literally a guaranteed kill after a long combo.
That's just how I feel, if you like it, fine, whatever I can respect that but I don't, it makes matches look boring in my opinion.

 

[Ragna22]

When playing a fighting game competitively, for money, you use what will get you the win. If that's an infinite combo that makes it a little less fun for viewers to watch, oh well. It isn't for the viewers. You're trying to win money or whatever the prize may be. If an infinite dominates the metagame to the point that literally everyone is using that strategy only, then it can be banned out. But with the difficulty of these infinites, I don't think they should be patched or banned. People jump to the OP argument way too fast.

I feel it's already an unspoken rule not to use infinites or things generally considered as broken in casual play anyway. If you do use something "Broken' then people will stop playing with you very quick.

I play melee at Xanadu pretty often. Nintendude wobbles in tournament games. He wins money doing it. But when playing friendly matches in between rounds or waiting to go on stream for his match, he never wobbles(that I have seen) and he still destroys people. If you don't want to win using this kind of tech, you don't have to. but it's an option that I think should be in unless Meta is defined by this option.

A really good example for something truly meta defining, When the card Jace the Mind Sculptor was released in MTG.
"The Standard metagame is stagnant and unhealthy at the moment, and has been for months. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is appearing in winning deck lists an alarming percentage of the time, with Stoneforge Mystic appearing almost as often. For reference, 88% of the decks in Day 2 of Grand Prix Singapore contained multiple copies of Jace, and almost 70% of the Day 2 decks contained Stoneforge Mystic. The numbers from Pro Tour Qualifiers and independent large events like the StarCityGames.com Open Series look very similar." - MTG article on why cards were getting banned in standard in 2011
Just fyi, no card has been banned in standard format since these two were banned in 2011. There were plenty of infinite combos around but none meta defining. I know MTG is different than a fighting game, but if anything it's more difficult to infinite in a fighting game were you have to react very quickly and precisely. If in smash 4 tournaments 88% of people are using pikachu with this custom set, then sure, patch it or ban it. Unless it reaches meta defining numbers, however, I say leave it be.

I get it, tourney players will use known exploits no matter what, but again, it doesn't mean I gotta like it, and it's like I said before, it may be difficult to perform an infinite, but that's not going to stop the tourney players from practicing it forever until the next tournament ya know?

 

[Lil Puddin]

A10ththeHero's post summary: poor attempt to rustle jimmies.

Taking everything personally is the perfect way to make yourself mad; in both senses pertaining to craziness and anger.

 

[Kasran]

Let me throw my hat into the ring, as an aspiring game developer.

Think of infinite combos like tactical nukes. Ideally, a suitably sophisticated infinite is great from a metagame standpoint: an ace-in-the hole of assured destruction in the hands of skilled players, which keeps opponents thinking about the matchup. The input timing and situationality of this one seem to fit the bill for me and legitimize it as a valid tactic.

However, this is a game that sees a lot of more spectator-oriented use, and both event organizers and game developers should consider that fact. Professionals playing in a tournament for money will use this tactic - I won't fault them for that - but if it's a boring tactic to watch, then more thought should be put into whether to allow it or not.

Of course, that's not to say that anything boring-looking should be banned from tournaments! I'm only saying that it's something else to consider when deciding on potentially controversial tactics like this.

(This is all moot anyway, given that the requisite specials apparently don't appear together in any legal sets at the upcoming EVO.)

 

[Z25]

Oh no, evo is going have a pika takeover! I KNEW THIS WAS A SIGN:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...chus_will_be_taking_overnyokohama_this_august

 

[The Merc]

Oh no, it's happening! People ARE waiting for patches rather than learning to adapt to things in the Sm4sh metagame!

Oh nononononono. Nothing like that. Just know Sakurai, this will most likely be patched in the next update, which is unfortunate. Then again, the next update probable isn't until Lucas is released in June. That's all

 

[A10theHero]

So much talking-down. Methinks manner-lessons are in order.

Anyway, easy infinites are only used by desperate players. Whether they use them or not is none of my business. It's unfun to fight against, but it's not beyond OP. Though true infinites don't really exist outside of this one in SSB4. So who knows or cares what'll happen?

U mad, bro? Cuz your passive-aggressiveness suggests so.
But seriously though, it irks me that you claim that infinites are used by desperate players and then you say that it's none of your business. You're basically saying that you won't judge...and yet you do. If anyone needs manner-lessons, it's you--that condescending attitude won't do you much good.

*An insult about my reply* and *a statement about taking stuff personally*

Whoa, resorting to ad hominen attacks, are we? Is that like your last resort or something? You made no attempt whatsoever to address the point I made.
Anyways, how was I attempting to rustle your jimmies? The first part of my reply wasn't even serious (hence the "seriously though" when I actually started making a claim).
Second of all, nothing in my reply suggested that I was taking this personally. The apparent hypocrisy in your statement bothered me, and that was it. I was merely calling you out for it.
Finally, if you're not gonna address the original issue I brought up, please do not reply to this. I'd rather not waste my time.

 

[Ur2Slow]

This is literally what people said back in Brawl, where Pika had an infinite as well. Tell me of any relevant Pikas outside of Esam, K Prime, Z, and Anther?

What's up with Smash players saying everything is OP and not actually using those things? Remember that Yoshi is top tier? Why is he not taking tournaments? Lucario's Aura is broken? Waiting for him to get some tournament wins. Customs like Villager's, DK's, and Brawler's (1-inch punch r.i.p) game breaking? You get it.

We have to realize that it's not bad to have something that's good, even really good. That's just how things work; characters have good options and rewards and want to abuse them. It's not OP/Broken/Gamebreaking, it's a strength.

Ok, now you're just twisting my words around. I never complained that pikachu was OP, I'm just saying that he's a really good character that got something unneeded. I actually hate those who complain about something being broken without seeing its use in tournaments, but hey, you go ahead and use me as an example of something I'm against

 

[Hoenn]

Luckily meteor quick attack is bad. It would be super gimmicky to add that to pikachu. You would basically be throwing away everything just for a hard to set up, infinite. Pikachu has to rely on everything he has to win, and you would literally be taking away from pikachu by using that move.

The thunder wave set up is super hard to set up due to postioning too. I do think that this infinite will find use in tournament, but it will not be abused or spammed.

TLDR. No pikachu will be able to win by relying on this. Nobody will be picking up a pocket pikachu just for this infinite. Pikachu is IMO one of, if not the hardest character in the game to pick up and play at an efficient level.

 

[allshort17]

Ok, now you're just twisting my words around. I never complained that pikachu was OP, I'm just saying that he's a really good character that got something unneeded. I actually hate those who complain about something being broken without seeing its use in tournaments, but hey, you go ahead and use me as an example of something I'm against

Yeah. Sorry to use your quote, but it just represented a problem that the community has. Not to say that you share those same beliefs. It just really inspired me to write my comment.

 

[BuTTNutz]

infinite combo with a pokemon? ( all heads turn straight to Greninja)

 

[equationcrunchor]

Well, they removed the One-Inch Punch, which was also super-situational and hard.

 

[nessokman]

So, what we have here is the new Hoo Hah. I propose that it be called...

Chu Hah

This is perfect

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

"You fools think you will get away with this? Just wait until 1.0.7 when I nerf Greninja too."

Can we stop with the whole "Sakurai is nerfing Smash 4" propaganda. The dude said he has no problems with the competitive community, he just doesn't consider it the priority, nor does he think the game should ONLY cater to them. He's pretty much indifferent. Plus, It's Nintendo themselves who's listening to community feedback, not Sakurai.

 

[Kink-Link5]

[Brawl theme plays in crescendo]

 

[TheMisterManGuy]

[Brawl theme plays in crescendo]

The reason Brawl was designed the way it was, was because the majority of Wii owners were casual gamers, so he thought a less competitive game would appeal to them.

 

[Darrman]

inb4 patch.... But yeah. Cool! Beware of Thunder Wave, lest you be paralyzed, or even worse, infinite combo'd!

 

[90007000]

I can tell everyone is beginning to main Pikachu right now. (I'm one myself.)

 

[90007000]

Pikachu is the new Diddy Kong, and this infinite is the new Hoo Hah. So this infinite is called the Pika Hah?

 

[hypa_avenue]

EVO is gonna be so annoying now because all we're gonna hear is "PIKACHUUUUU, PIKACHUUUUU, PIKACHUUUUU, PI-PI, PIKACHUUUUU, PI, PIKACHUUUUU". :V

As if monkey sounds weren't annoying?

 

[GeZ]

Don't worry guys, allowing customs totally isn't a ******** idea, just look at how not dumb Pikachu's customs are. ez no problem.

 

[aethermaster]

Can we stop with the whole "Sakurai is nerfing Smash 4" propaganda. The dude said he has no problems with the competitive community, he just doesn't consider it the priority, nor does he think the game should ONLY cater to them. He's pretty much indifferent. Plus, It's Nintendo themselves who's listening to community feedback, not Sakurai.

Propaganda? I didn't know I was spreading a message here?

It's just a joke dude. I am fully aware Sakurai is neutral on the whole thing and its a joint effort between Nintendo and Bandai. If they didn't listen to the competitive community Diddy would still have his hoo-hah and Ganondorf wouldn't have gotten a small buff.

Relax.

 

[ArcadeWednesdays]

maybe i should pick up pikachu again...

 

[KingHeavyYTP]

Well, looks like Pikachu is going to be banned.

 

[T0MMY]

Well, looks like Pikachu is going to be banned.

No, looks like everything will get back to normal once EVO is over because Custom Fighters will be OFF for good because of this and all the other jank it's caused leading up to EVO.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I'm not sure why people are assuming this means Pikachu will be banned or custom moves will be banned or even this specific custom combination (Thunder Wave + Meteor Quick Attack) will be banned. I don't think we've actually encountered a custom set up that has been unbeatable as of yet. Any "jank" related to custom moves are mostly down to players being unfamiliar with the moves, in my opinion. Which yeah, it sucks that they're nigh impossible to unlock within a reasonable time frame, but that's a problem for the TOs to consider.

I'm very skeptical that Pikachu will even get close to being broken with this set up. It has a bit of a situational set up that requires your opponent to be within a specific percentage range, and in order to extend it beyond the basic chain you must trade in your good recovery move for one that's not as good. I honestly think this pales in comparison to what Ice Climbers could do in Brawl, or even some of the commonly accepted aspects of high level Melee play.

I don't think banning customs on the basis of them being "jank" should even be considered unless we actually have a character that's proven nigh-unbeatable with them turned on. Because they're difficult to acquire and to prepare for? Maybe, even if I personally think we have access to enough resources for most players to be reasonably informed even without having access to them all. But not because Pikachu maybe has a viable infinite with one combination of customs that trades away some of his general utility for something that just seems so situational.

 

[Zad]

Pikachu forever

 

[bleblock]

Has anyone else noticed how messed up pikachu's model animation is while he is back crawling? I don't remember that being messed up before patch 1.0.6

 

[FoxE]

(Insert better nerf greninja joke here)

 

[Red&WhiteMegaman]

First the Annoying spam moves, now a infinite? im done.

 

[KingHeavyYTP]

No, looks like everything will get back to normal once EVO is over because Custom Fighters will be OFF for good because of this and all the other jank it's caused leading up to EVO.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Sgt-Sol]

Leave this here PogChamp

 

[Daymaster]

And this is why I love customs.