my marth dd camping

[Cosmo!]

fox and falcon

what ******* characters

i cant get around this stuff. peach does pretty good vs my marth too for the same reason

falcon will **** me with grabs a lot and fox will laser camp me and when I finally feel I have an approach I get read and my grab sucks

I'm not great in marth dittos either but i'm a little more comfortable in those than fox or falcon

my marth THE **** OUT OF CHARS WHO CANNOT DO THIS

falco is the easiest character in the game to beat its a JOKE. I don't even chaingrab

I have zero problems with samus or doc, stuff is not difficult

sheik is a bad matchup but I can win it

jiggs "aerial dd camp" lol I can get around this easier

90% of low tiers are no problem its gg

post good anti DD camp strats in here I guess.. "DD camp them back" well what if its a fox who laser camps me as we're slamming our control sticks back and forth? lol idk man. i've played like 1200 marth v fox matches and I still have trouble with pretty new fox players who are patient enough to dd camp me. I've 1 stocked a fox before who did some heavy dd camping but JV 4 stocked him with falcon the next match. lol what is that.

this is why I can't drop falco; the LASER

Falco's laser stops DD camping. it's actually the reason I picked him up all those years ago, I plaeyd a fox who dd camped me and it was too hard.

I've never learned to properly deal with it. Some of the stuff i try is like run way further than I think I'd need to then fsmash lol or approaching dtilt pokes and stuff. i dont know man

dunno why I'm posting this. lol. wassup marth boards

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dashdance close enough so they can't laser without being grabbed/dash attacked...?

Against Falcon... just... camp the edge and relax. I suppose in both cases you can push them towards the edge both with little, hard to punish attacks and the threat of attacks until they don't have any room to maneuver...

 

[Cecilia K.]

Yeah, stay right outside Fox's bubble of comfortable gayness in Marth-on-Fox.

Pressure.

 

[Cosmo!]

You have received an infraction at Smash World Forums
Dear Cosmo!,

You have received an infraction at Smash World Forums.

Reason: Censor Dodging

lol :S

that mod changed the thread title now it doesnt make sense in context

 

[cykofox]

lol buffer spot dodges. cuz fukers go for grab as soon as you hit floor with sum aerial.

 

[Miggz]

Hey dude. Watch these two vids of me playing Falcon. Maybe you'll get some ideas. I'll type up some actual advice in a bit. ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDifwOfsmGY&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKZb8j6b21A&feature=channel_page

 

[Cosmo!]

i see little to no DD camping in those vids, and the falcon looks sorta bad lol

its not fox and falcon I have a problem with, its their DD and what exactly I should be doing. fox forces you to approach, unlike falcon, and I have fought fox players who DO NOT MAKE THE FIRST MOVE, they will DD and laser until I come in with an approach. I am unsure of what to do in this situation

if I pressure them as Cecilia K. says then they will run those platforms and get on the other side. if I attempt to chase with like instant dj uair i usually don't get much out of it and when I guess wrong I'm above them and get *****

i dont like FD much but maybe that is one solution to the fox problem

 

[Miggz]

Well the point of the vids I posted was to show you safe approaches with Marth in general. Notice how I use dash canceled down tilts as an approach? That is one safe method to use against dash dancing. If you miss the down tilt your foe will attempt to JC grab you or something. That is why its crucial to learn how to dash away after a down tilt or SHFFL aerial with Marth. As you dash away your foe's attack/grab would have missed and at that point you can quickly dash back in and grab.

Here is another trick that can work. Simply run up to your foe who is DD camping and put up your shield. This approach can often make your foe wiff out a spot dodge. If you are fast enough you can punish this.

The only other suggestion I have for you is to put up vids so we can see what the problem is. Its probably more to it then what you are explaining.

Oh and there is something you should know, dash dancing is useless if there is a massive gap between you and your foe. This is why both RoK and I use quick dash dancing/pivots when we are actually close together. So that can explain why you saw little DD camping.

 

[Europhoria]

I'm going to be helpful here because I really hate camping >_> Most people have a "range" when they dash dance camp, like...


<--------X--------> <---------X---------->

Imagine X as the Marth (in a ditto I guess) and the area as how far they dash towards and away from the other person.

What usually happens is that 1 Marth loses patience and attacks at the front of the camping area which would be <X----------------> at which point the other Marth just runs to the back of his range and then comes back to punish.

What you should do is just overshoot their dash dance by aiming well behind them at the back of the range. Use Dash attack, grab, late f-air, or even an F-smash. If they keep running, just keep following them lol.

Another option is to aim for a spot well early of their range in an effort to bait them into reacting. You can also run into their dash dance area into shield or whatever to bait a punish, but I don't recommend that.

 

[Razor]

I'm going to be helpful here because I really hate camping >_> Most people have a "range" when they dash dance camp, like...


<--------X--------> <---------X---------->

Imagine X as the Marth (in a ditto I guess) and the area as how far they dash towards and away from the other person.

What usually happens is that 1 Marth loses patience and attacks at the front of the camping area which would be <X----------------> at which point the other Marth just runs to the back of his range and then comes back to punish.

What you should do is just overshoot their dash dance by aiming well behind them at the back of the range. Use Dash attack, grab, late f-air, or even an F-smash. If they keep running, just keep following them lol.

that's a great strat that's starting to be picked up in a lot of regions. it works, but it's more effective with characters with a killer aerial. marth's aerials aren't really kill moves, but they got range. i'm curious, europhoria, where did you hear about this strat? i heard it from a friend on aim who lives in baltimore.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Attacking past the dashdance is pretty much common sense...

Marth doesn't need a killer aerial, just aerials that set up for finishers.

 

[ArcNatural]

that's a great strat that's starting to be picked up in a lot of regions. it works, but it's more effective with characters with a killer aerial. marth's aerials aren't really kill moves, but they got range. i'm curious, europhoria, where did you hear about this strat? i heard it from a friend on aim who lives in baltimore.

I heard this when M2k explained that PC likes to aim all his attacks well behind you to either make it hard to grab him or to catch you trying to dash away. Made sense to me.

 

[Miggz]

Yeah that sounds like PC...

 

[Europhoria]

that's a great strat that's starting to be picked up in a lot of regions. it works, but it's more effective with characters with a killer aerial. marth's aerials aren't really kill moves, but they got range. i'm curious, europhoria, where did you hear about this strat? i heard it from a friend on aim who lives in baltimore.

PKMVodka told me to do this with dash attack vs. Falcon. I was having/still kinda have problems with super campy Falcons. He was teaching me how aggressive play ***** campy Falcon. From there, I just learned the rest myself.

I think this idea works best with dash attack because of how much more quick distance a character can cover on the ground that way. Peach/Sheik lunge forward for example >_>

 

[JBM falcon08]

yeah really just overshoot their dding especially vs fox, or overly space to where you will throw a move and they try to punish it, dash away from their attempted attack or grab, then punish.

if i were you i'd approach with dtilt vs falcon, as well as dash attack, but i don't approach falcons.

 

[Weimdog]

Cosmo
Falco is not a joke
Teach me how, and I'll send you a video on how to beat khepris falcon with marth

--King of Chicago Smash

 

[Tomacawk]

didn't read any posts besides first one.
shield approach. if it doesn't work? wd out of shield and start over =) this not only maybe gets you a shield grab, but you can get an idea of their style based on their reaction (they might roll, or they attack, or they go to the ledge/platform, etc)
approach with nair/whatever PAST them. land behind them or in front out of shield grab range, whatever is necessary (you probably shouldn't fastfall)
I was the "pretty good fox" in your doubles pools at smym9--just so you know--I play a lot like what you just mentioned in singles--and dtilt approaches really mess me up when I'm dd camping / laser camping, so imo it's all about finding out what works before the end of the set, or just counterpick wacky levels where they can't do that ****

 

[Brightside6382]

learn how to powershield against Falco

 

[Juke]

It's all about overshooting a grab. Grabs wreck fox. Don't do that against falcon though.

 

[Niko45]

Overshoot running dtilt is the absolute best approach against DD campers. Dash attack is good too since it leads to massive combos if it connects but it also lags more so dtilt is better. Dtilt will push them off the edge or onto the edge and ur now in business. Also if they happen to not DD camp as you approach and try to nair in place or whatever you will be CCing already so react. Really REALLY good players can actually DD to grab vs the overshot dtilt so don't be too predictable with it and try to force them to dd camp as close to the edge as possible.