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My Fox vs. Falco video
- Thread starter Zeonix
- Start date
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Ok dude first of all you have got to slow and and think. You were making some really silly mistakes. Like when when you knocked Falco to the ground you simply stood there and watched from a distance as he got up. Why? You could have at least gotten closer and shielded to anticipate a wakeup attack. Also you really need to work on your tech skill. You and your friend were missing l cancels even with full jump aerials. So I'd recommend you practice your tech skill and get a better feel for your character before playing actual matches. Oh and get into the habit of jump canceling your grabs.
Your edge guarding was another thing. I think you and your opponent try to complicate things. Instead of going for shine spikes (especially since you don't have control of fox yet) simply grab the ledge, let go and re-grab to keep your invulnerable frames and react accordingly. If Falco's Fire Bird somehow manages to go above you jump up and bair him. If he uses his illusion make sure you are holding onto the edge with your invulnerable frames because if you are vulnerable Falco's side B will spike you.
As I mentioned before you need to think when you play. You guys were just throwing out random attacks. No one can teach you to think better but you can be taught what to look out for and how to react to them. Melee is a very situational game, so I think you should watch videos of other players to get a better idea of how you should be doing things.
Good luck. =)
Your edge guarding was another thing. I think you and your opponent try to complicate things. Instead of going for shine spikes (especially since you don't have control of fox yet) simply grab the ledge, let go and re-grab to keep your invulnerable frames and react accordingly. If Falco's Fire Bird somehow manages to go above you jump up and bair him. If he uses his illusion make sure you are holding onto the edge with your invulnerable frames because if you are vulnerable Falco's side B will spike you.
As I mentioned before you need to think when you play. You guys were just throwing out random attacks. No one can teach you to think better but you can be taught what to look out for and how to react to them. Melee is a very situational game, so I think you should watch videos of other players to get a better idea of how you should be doing things.
Good luck. =)
Bets
Smash Journeyman
hmm... there were many times when you could have combo'd out of your shine.
you're not making any use of jumping out of the shines.
Your edge guarding is in need of improvement.
You were being silly and letting the falco come on the stage too many times.
2:47 you could have substituted that downsmash with an upsmash
1:59 shine wasn't needed. you could have stayed on the stage and could have gimped him
3:10 Should have grabbed the ledge...when on the ledge you could have rolled on the stage.
Your approaches are too predicable. you full jump and pull a nair or dair... it may work on the falco... but if he was more experienced, he would have shield grabbed you. Don't be repetitive. you don't have to do an aerial each time you jump.
Oh and when the falco flubbed his tech you just sat there and watched him get up. there were so many things you could have done to rack up percentage when he's down. you could tech chase grab or smash.
I recommend reading SW's ultimate fox thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=111305
you're not making any use of jumping out of the shines.
Your edge guarding is in need of improvement.
You were being silly and letting the falco come on the stage too many times.
2:47 you could have substituted that downsmash with an upsmash
1:59 shine wasn't needed. you could have stayed on the stage and could have gimped him
3:10 Should have grabbed the ledge...when on the ledge you could have rolled on the stage.
Your approaches are too predicable. you full jump and pull a nair or dair... it may work on the falco... but if he was more experienced, he would have shield grabbed you. Don't be repetitive. you don't have to do an aerial each time you jump.
Oh and when the falco flubbed his tech you just sat there and watched him get up. there were so many things you could have done to rack up percentage when he's down. you could tech chase grab or smash.
I recommend reading SW's ultimate fox thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=111305
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
EDIT: I just realized I reiterated everything that Miggz said, so let me just repeat him anyway and advise you to work on your tech skill. Also, have a plan at every moment. Think and react. It helps a lot.
Zeonix
Smash Apprentice
If I was viewing this video as someone else I'de also say that I was really stupid about edge guarding........wicked stupid...... but honestly I don't usaully jump out of the ledge for a shine spike every time, just nervous for video or something.....yeah I was being really stupid....I promise my next video won't be so amatuerish....
And Puckgood (Falco) almost never just sits there waiting to tech, HE SEROIUSLY NEVER DOES THAT. So I really didn't know what to do....I was just kinda firing at him kinda saying "What the hell are you doing, get up!". Usaully I would wait for him to tech and then grab him and throw him up.....we both did alot of things we would never do in a "normal" match.
And Puckgood (Falco) almost never just sits there waiting to tech, HE SEROIUSLY NEVER DOES THAT. So I really didn't know what to do....I was just kinda firing at him kinda saying "What the hell are you doing, get up!". Usaully I would wait for him to tech and then grab him and throw him up.....we both did alot of things we would never do in a "normal" match.
Bets
Smash Journeyman
then post a normal match
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
lol didn't I say that somewhere? mindgames.
Zeonix
Smash Apprentice
I usaully do think and react....I'm not a random idoit like in that vid, but I guess I can't prove it till you see my next vid.....
3 days later.........: Hey I got another Fox video for you, I tried not to be so random...... tell me what you think........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUJpJP4uY0U
3 days later.........: Hey I got another Fox video for you, I tried not to be so random...... tell me what you think........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUJpJP4uY0U
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Ok well the good news is I do notice you taking your time in these vids. I can see you are STARTING TO understand how you wait for a reaction and react accordingly. So good job in that aspect. ^^
However, you must first keep in mind that these kinds of changes don't occur overnight, you know? Especially when it comes to the mental aspect of the game. You still have to improve your tech skill. You are missing too many cancels still. Oh and watch your recovering. You attempted to return by doing a non sweet spot side B twice in a row, keep in mind to switch it up. Oh and don't feel discouraged either, it takes a human to point out another individual's mistakes...its the only we we can get better.
Keep it up man, look forward to your next vids.
However, you must first keep in mind that these kinds of changes don't occur overnight, you know? Especially when it comes to the mental aspect of the game. You still have to improve your tech skill. You are missing too many cancels still. Oh and watch your recovering. You attempted to return by doing a non sweet spot side B twice in a row, keep in mind to switch it up. Oh and don't feel discouraged either, it takes a human to point out another individual's mistakes...its the only we we can get better.
Keep it up man, look forward to your next vids.
Binx
Smash Master
Less smashes, be more patient and precise on your grabs, don't laser when he is on the ground, faking a short hop when he misses a tech will make him waste a get up attack, which I noticed he does too often. Use dsmash to edgeguard when he doesn't sweetspot, also edgehog more. If you expect a forward b through you just spot dodge it and grab him, thats a free high damage chain throw just begging to be used.
Predict his jumps and use Nair to hit him out of them, more or less good job on avoiding lasers, as well as DIing his throws. You get shield grabbed a lot, try to land your aerials behind his shield, hit with Fox's butt, then you can short hop a bair into his shield, go for a grab, utilt, whatever. Also the times you don't hit with his butt, make sure and l cancel and shine, or grab if you think they will keep shielding for the shine. Your first step should be to improve your control, of both your jumps and movement, shoot less pointless lasers, especially vs falcos cause his are better than yours. Then work on keeping combos going by using Fox trotting and correctly guessing techs and DI. Obviously its basic but work on your edgeguards, get close to the ledge, if you hear his phantasm early then spot dodge and punish, if its just a little too high go ahead and go for a downsmash, its likely they won't tech or won't be able to tech, once he gets to a certain height if he doesn't have his double jump feel free to jump out and shine him when he uses his fire fox.
Oh and one last thing, if you hit him and expect him to miss his tech, jump on it immediately by running over and shielding, or use an upsmash if you think he will stall very long, also works if you predict a tech in place.
Predict his jumps and use Nair to hit him out of them, more or less good job on avoiding lasers, as well as DIing his throws. You get shield grabbed a lot, try to land your aerials behind his shield, hit with Fox's butt, then you can short hop a bair into his shield, go for a grab, utilt, whatever. Also the times you don't hit with his butt, make sure and l cancel and shine, or grab if you think they will keep shielding for the shine. Your first step should be to improve your control, of both your jumps and movement, shoot less pointless lasers, especially vs falcos cause his are better than yours. Then work on keeping combos going by using Fox trotting and correctly guessing techs and DI. Obviously its basic but work on your edgeguards, get close to the ledge, if you hear his phantasm early then spot dodge and punish, if its just a little too high go ahead and go for a downsmash, its likely they won't tech or won't be able to tech, once he gets to a certain height if he doesn't have his double jump feel free to jump out and shine him when he uses his fire fox.
Oh and one last thing, if you hit him and expect him to miss his tech, jump on it immediately by running over and shielding, or use an upsmash if you think he will stall very long, also works if you predict a tech in place.
R.T.K.O. (Rob-Totes-Kush-Often)
Smash Rookie
More Shorthopping
More L-Canceling
And you gotta work on your edge guarding and mind games
More L-Canceling
And you gotta work on your edge guarding and mind games
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I love when people say to work on your mind games. Imo THAT'S the biggest mindgame of them all.
lulz
hubble
Smash Ace
Utilt, its **** good. Your using dsmash to hit him when hes behind you, thats a waste of time. Utilt or shine.
Sh in general, lcancel, grab.
Sh in general, lcancel, grab.
Grmo
Smash Champion
Notes taken while watching: (match 1)
- You need to move more. Right away, you tried to grab, then downsmash. Sitting still like that leaves you really open, and most people will punish you for it. It's especially dangerous doing that near the ledge.
- 0:17 - when they're on the ground like that, make use of it. You can get a grab or upsmash out of it and combo them.
- 1:22 - Basically, the whole time, you've just been trying to get more damage. I mean, he's at 174% already, so a grab to anything would kill him. Grabbing him will be really easy once you start trying.
- 2:13 - Learn to tech, and that won't happen to you again.
Overall notes:
- Work on L-cancelling, jump-cancelled grabbing and other technical stuff. Practicing those things goes a long way.
- Definitely grab more. Also, you really need to try to pay attention to percents. A lot of the time, he's at a certain percent that's just right for a combo, or a killing move, or something like that, so work on some things like that then test them out in matches.
- I think, overall, you just need to watch your own matches and take notes. Getting other people to do that for you works, to a certain extent, but it's much better just to widen your knowledge by watching, and playing with, better people, and taking notes so you can solidify your understanding of certain things. The best approach is to take notes on your own matches; watch for things that you can tell you're not doing right, then compare them to a pro match and take more notes, then apply those notes to your practice and work on everything. This sounds tough, but there's no easy way to get better. This is how it's done.
Hope this helps.
- You need to move more. Right away, you tried to grab, then downsmash. Sitting still like that leaves you really open, and most people will punish you for it. It's especially dangerous doing that near the ledge.
- 0:17 - when they're on the ground like that, make use of it. You can get a grab or upsmash out of it and combo them.
- 1:22 - Basically, the whole time, you've just been trying to get more damage. I mean, he's at 174% already, so a grab to anything would kill him. Grabbing him will be really easy once you start trying.
- 2:13 - Learn to tech, and that won't happen to you again.
Overall notes:
- Work on L-cancelling, jump-cancelled grabbing and other technical stuff. Practicing those things goes a long way.
- Definitely grab more. Also, you really need to try to pay attention to percents. A lot of the time, he's at a certain percent that's just right for a combo, or a killing move, or something like that, so work on some things like that then test them out in matches.
- I think, overall, you just need to watch your own matches and take notes. Getting other people to do that for you works, to a certain extent, but it's much better just to widen your knowledge by watching, and playing with, better people, and taking notes so you can solidify your understanding of certain things. The best approach is to take notes on your own matches; watch for things that you can tell you're not doing right, then compare them to a pro match and take more notes, then apply those notes to your practice and work on everything. This sounds tough, but there's no easy way to get better. This is how it's done.
Hope this helps.
Zeonix
Smash Apprentice
My Fox can now wavedash fluently and almost waveshine, I have found that this has helped the speed / mindgames of my Fox.
Yesterday I was playing Puck again and It was like God gave me the power to L-Cancel everything. It was like I was lightning.
Hopefully you'll see a video of something like that soon.
Yesterday I was playing Puck again and It was like God gave me the power to L-Cancel everything. It was like I was lightning.
Hopefully you'll see a video of something like that soon.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Cool. Look forward to it...
ComboTurtle
Smash Lord
i hate it when people just write off what people say and then make excuses or say i normally do this, you ask your video to be critiqued for a reason, so you can learn just take the advice and learn.
Zeonix
Smash Apprentice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7QXYhHmOk0
I guess I was making excuses but it was only becuase now since you guys critiqued my Fox that I realized how bad/not as good as I thought I was. I can now L-Cancel about 70% and wavedash. This has helped my alot and the videos I've posted showed my Fox back then but my Fox now is alot better. Sorry, I am taking in your advice and yes I was making an excuse.
Puck told me to "Play for show" and that's what we were "trying" to do and it back fired. Next time I make a vid it will be a seroius match, not us showing of in lame ways that don't show any skill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7QXYhHmOk0
I was still not playing as good as I can now with Fox but atleast I'm thinking and reacting most of the time during this vid.
I guess I was making excuses but it was only becuase now since you guys critiqued my Fox that I realized how bad/not as good as I thought I was. I can now L-Cancel about 70% and wavedash. This has helped my alot and the videos I've posted showed my Fox back then but my Fox now is alot better. Sorry, I am taking in your advice and yes I was making an excuse.
Puck told me to "Play for show" and that's what we were "trying" to do and it back fired. Next time I make a vid it will be a seroius match, not us showing of in lame ways that don't show any skill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7QXYhHmOk0
I was still not playing as good as I can now with Fox but atleast I'm thinking and reacting most of the time during this vid.
Binx
Smash Master
Its easier for me to critique matches on flat stages, but first of all, let me say you aren't short hopping enough, and your friend isn't doing anything he is supposed to be doing or it would limit your options a lot more.
The first step for you to improve a good deal is to have your friend improve, right now have him just work on his laser pressuring and spacing game, tell him to use more short hopped bairs, and to shield more, if he is on the ground and you jump at him he needs to shield or crouch cancel and shine you, those are his only real options, he shouldn't spot dodge because you will shine him after, and he probably shouldn't roll incase you are feigning an attack.
He needs to get above you and pressure with drills, which is also what you should be doing. He should start shield grabbing your forward smashes or rolling away from you after them if it pushes too far then lasering to regain momentum.
Once he is countering you properly then you will obviously need to change up your tactics to beat those and thats when we can give you more usefull critiques.
The first step for you to improve a good deal is to have your friend improve, right now have him just work on his laser pressuring and spacing game, tell him to use more short hopped bairs, and to shield more, if he is on the ground and you jump at him he needs to shield or crouch cancel and shine you, those are his only real options, he shouldn't spot dodge because you will shine him after, and he probably shouldn't roll incase you are feigning an attack.
He needs to get above you and pressure with drills, which is also what you should be doing. He should start shield grabbing your forward smashes or rolling away from you after them if it pushes too far then lasering to regain momentum.
Once he is countering you properly then you will obviously need to change up your tactics to beat those and thats when we can give you more usefull critiques.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
Dude...Poke Floats? Come on now. Don't be so self conscious...just post a match on a flat level...
Zeonix
Smash Apprentice
Lol sorry, just thought we would try it there. My next vid will be My Fox vs. Puck's Marth. Considering it's a good matchup for me and because both his Marth and my Fox have inproved alot since our last vids. And I'm pretty sure the match will be on Poke' Stad.
And responding to Binx: My friends Marth has inproved ALOT. His Falco has inproved some. But since his Marth has inproved so much, he's starting beating me with him and therefore I did what you said and my Fox stepped his game up and inproved to start beating him. I might tell him what you said to inprove his game (Hopefully not make him mad). Puck's style with his Falco changes alot. Every time I fight him he's playing him with a diferent style. (Maybe not at the time of these vids but you'll just have to believe me).
I can now Shuffle my Bair, Uair, and Drill. And so can Puck. I can now wavedash with Fox alot, Puck doesn't favor wavedashing but he can do it.
I think you will see that Puck's Falco is alot better against my Roy in this video. (Just trying to back him up a little)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY92agsEMxs
Please watch it in high quality if you can.
Also watch for his 3-71 % combo once I get to 2 stock.
Critique my Roy if you want
And responding to Binx: My friends Marth has inproved ALOT. His Falco has inproved some. But since his Marth has inproved so much, he's starting beating me with him and therefore I did what you said and my Fox stepped his game up and inproved to start beating him. I might tell him what you said to inprove his game (Hopefully not make him mad). Puck's style with his Falco changes alot. Every time I fight him he's playing him with a diferent style. (Maybe not at the time of these vids but you'll just have to believe me).
I can now Shuffle my Bair, Uair, and Drill. And so can Puck. I can now wavedash with Fox alot, Puck doesn't favor wavedashing but he can do it.
I think you will see that Puck's Falco is alot better against my Roy in this video. (Just trying to back him up a little)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY92agsEMxs
Please watch it in high quality if you can.
Also watch for his 3-71 % combo once I get to 2 stock.
Critique my Roy if you want
Tee ay eye
Smash Hero
Why don't you shorthop? Like.. ever.
There were many instances where he should have been grabbed... and he wasn't. Also, you're supposed to uthrow Falco... and d-throw shine doesn't work.
And many where he should have been u-smashed... and wasn't.
There were many instances where he should have been grabbed... and he wasn't. Also, you're supposed to uthrow Falco... and d-throw shine doesn't work.
And many where he should have been u-smashed... and wasn't.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
If I were you, I'd simply watch vids of pros and other skilled people and learn from them. For Fox, check out PC vids. As for Roy, try watching Ripple's or Renth's Roy. Just watch...and learn...literally.