In a game where we can have 2/3 of the stages be playable, I don't see why you're limiting things so much. Check out
this thread on the Brawl+ Brigade forums to see what kind of stages we're looking at here. There are 25 stages listed there that could be made viable (plus a few more that are debatable) to your 12. Not all of those listed will necessarily make it to their respective slots, but I think it's a much better starting point than your list is. Walk-offs could actually be made into viable counterpicks with the removal of falco's/ddd's chaingrabs, and also once we remove jab locks.
Also, here's what I had to say on the matter of stages (C/p'd from elsewhere):
I'm going to make a few suggestions besides just freezing stages, namely in using other codes that alter the stage properties for if we have room. Another thing I should clarify about my stance on this before I post is that I don't think there is actually anything inherently wrong with walkoff levels. The main reason for their banning is that an easy chain throw or jab lock can take your stock in vB, but without that threat, they become a lot more viable for a CP. Remember, in melee there was waveshining, so walkoffs haven't really gotten a fair chance in smash.
Here's my opinions on every stage in the game (if you don't want to read each one, just skip to the bottom for the summaries of what I think should be changed):
- Starter -
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Starter summary: I put this group here just for the sake of completion. None of these stages need anything done to them.
- Starter/Counter -
Castle Siege - Why do people say we should freeze this because they hate the second level?
That's the whole reason it should be a counterpick. People hate the second level. You happen to like the second level. You counterpick this level because most people hate the second level and you can take advantage of it.
Delfino - Freeze this?
Frick no. It could already be considered for a neutral on its own, and freezing it
completely takes away from its uniqueness.
Halberd - Frozen, this stage is basically just "the hanger," a walkoff that isn't particularly special in any way. Why would anyone want to freeze this? I might be able to see using a separate code to remove some (or all) of the hazards. The only
really stupid one is the claw imo. The laser and bomb are too slow to be a problem, but the claw strikes semi-randomly and is fast, interrupting fights.
Lylat Cruise - We thought about this one before... ultimately, the way it starts is random, so you're never actually guaranteed to get the perfectly flat version. Leave it alone. Maybe just a code to make it so it doesn't tilt.
Pokémon Stadium 1 - LET'S HAVE TWO COPIES OF ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME STAGE EXCEPT ONE WITH WORSE LEDGES YAY! This stage is fine. Yeah, the windmill sucks. So? Leave it as is. It might be possible to get a code to turn the windmill into platforms instead of "base stage," but it'd probably be pretty costly in lines if it's even possible. This stage should really just stay as is.
Starter/Counter summary: Nothing here should be frozen. Maybe get a specific code to stop lylat's tilting (which is different, yet has the same ultimate purpose) or to remove the claw on halberd, but that's it.
- Counter -
Brinstar - Acid will still rise, fyi, so freezing this stage would do more harm than good... I wouldn't even want to freeze it to begin with; it's a fine CP.
Corneria - Freezing this does what? Remove the ships? I think freezing it has weird effects on the stage... like... part of it still moves very slowly while the rest of it doesn't move with it... when I was playing on it I felt like my orientation was off the whole time. Don't freeze it.
Distant Planet - Ahahahaha. This stage gets so horribly bad with a freeze it's not even funny. You know that rain that we all hate on this stage? It's the only thing that keeps this stage a CP in the first place. Any character with a sideB recovery move (ie. fox) can create an infinite run loop between the right and left ledges, and you can't do
anything about it. That, and
none of the hazards in this stage were a problem to begin with. DO NOT FREEZE.
Frigate Orpheon - What's wrong with this stage? Leave it be. Who
cares if this can be made into a neutral with a special code... it's unique and should be kept as is.
Green Hill Zone - I thought this was banned tbh. If it was, I would've said to freeze it in an instant, since it stops the floor from falling away and removes the stupid checkpoint spinners. Maybe.
Jungle Japes - This is legal, too? Whatever. Freezing it makes it look weird, but it does get rid of the clap-trap, I guess. It's a maybe.
Luigi's Mansion - lol freeze. It becomes worse than temple with a freeze, but the deadlands code is an option. This is another one I can't believe is legal right now; it's got such bad temple syndrome. Are you sure your list isn't old?
Norfair - Hazards never added anything to this level (unless you consider getting in the way to be "adding" to the level), and I must admit I do like the platform layout. I might be a bit biased toward freezing on this one, but I can see an argument against freezing it well enough. It's still a viable CP without freezing, so I'm on the fence for this one.
Pictochat - People always talk about freezing this one, and for all the wrong reasons. If you're going to counterpick this stage, you're doing it
because of the hazards. Not in spite of them.
Because of them. Some players downright
love this level, while most people hate it. It's great as a CP stage right where it is.
Pirate Ship - This stage has a lot of cool stuff to it, and I think removing the water would be just plain stupid. It's a unique aspect to the stage, and if someone wants to try to engage in spike wars in the water, I say let them. If anything, find a way to skip the bombs, which are a real hindrance to actually
fighting. People have talked about banning this stage, with the primary issue being the bombs, so I think if we removed them with a special code, it would be perfect.
Pokémon Stadium 2 - I think most people are freezing this by now. Two of its transformations would probably be banworthy on their own, which I think is enough to warrant the freeze.
Rainbow Cruise - Why freeze this?
Why? It sucks frozen. It's
just the ship, and the two platforms you fall from at the end of the loop are accessible from this point. One of them won't cause you to take damage, while the other is in the bubble. Either way, it's stupid, and it takes away a
ton of uniqueness from an otherwise fine CP stage. CPs are supposed to give you an advantage. If your opponent's characters sucks here, then too bad.
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) - THIS IS LEGAL? Well, when this stage is frozen, when you hit the blocks they stay permanently in their flat state, essentially making killing the "platforms" and opening up a gaping hole for the entirety of the match very early on quite easy to do. It would probably facilitate camping too much, due to the split in the level. Not a good candidate for being frozen, despite how fun it is to spike people down that hole in the middle lol
Counter summary: Green Hill Zone, Jungle Japes, and Norfair might be freeze candidates, although none of them would land them in neutral, making freezing them kinda arbitrary. I think Luigi's Mansion (which should at the least be in the counter/banned group...) would be good with the Deadlands code, which would net us another neutral. Pokemon Stadium 2 is probably on everyone's freeze lists by now, and I agree with its freezing to be made into a neutral.
- Counter/Banned -
Green Greens - Feels really good when frozen. Only problem is the blocks at the start, but otherwise it's good.
Mario Circuit - This stage was banworthy because it's a walkoff. The cars are a nuisance at best. Really, this should just get moved to CP as is.
Onett - Freezing may get rid of the van, but it has several negative effects, too. Namely, the tree no longer depresses when you land on it, and the sign gets screwed up, too. The van has set knockback, just an fyi, and it should
never kill you unless your DI sucks. It isn't worth freezing.
Port Town Aero Dive - Woah woah woah! This stage sucks frozen. It has a random start from what I've seen, meaning you can have a different stage every time you play it. The main one of this that has the main stage platform with the damaging floor (terrible collision bubbles, btw) isn't even that good of a stage to begin with. I would
much rather get a code that stops the cars from loading to make it more like melee's mute city, which would make it into an awesome CP.
Skyworld - Why isn't this banned...? Well, anyway, frozen is terrible. The blocks break, but they don't actually disappear... visually. you can drop through the bottom part of the stage when there are no blocks there, and worse is that there are no ledges for you to grab back onto, either. Terrible terrible frozen stage... terrible stage period, actually, but whatever.
Counter/Banned summary: Green greens might be a target for freezing (and possible an extra code to fix the block problem). We almost definitely want a code that kills the cars on port town.
Banned
75m - lol
Big Blue - Still sucks.
Bridge of Eldin - The bomb isn't tied to stage speed. There is, however, a code that will stop the dude from coming and dropping the bomb, which I suggest we use. It should be just enough to bring this into CP territory.
Flat Zone 2 - Frozen is great. It's still a small walk-off level, but no more hazards means it might be workable as a CP.
Hanenbow - no
Hyrule Temple - YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!! ...I mean no.
Mario Bros - The code actually has a weird effect on this stage. When you bump a line from below, it gets stuck in its "up" position. The stage is still awful, but I figured I'd mention it. lol
Mushroomy Kingdom I - Er... I actually haven't tried this stage yet with the freeze code. The game kept freezing on me (loud BEEEEEEEP and everything) when I was testing out the freeze code since I apparently needed to use the my music reset code for that stage, so I don't know how it plays when frozen. But I don't think we can do anything to make this stage legal and still let it move...
Mushroomy Kingdom II - No.
New Pork City - No.
Rumble Falls - It still sucks. A lot.
Shadow Moses - The walls are like skyworld's blocks. They'll die, but they still remain there in appearance. All in all, it still sucks.
Spear Pillar - Stupid cave. This stage would be an amazing neutral if the cave didn't exist. Giza suggested maybe having the horizontal beam always go through the bottom, so that essentially that part of the stage would be cut off, and the beam would be the new death boundary.
The Summit - Loop. Fail.
Wario Ware - FALCON YES! If anyone hasn't frozen this stage yet, then shame on you.
Banned summary: Maybe freeze Flat Zone 2 and Mushroomy Kingdom I. Definitely freeze Warioware. Bridge of Eldin might be viable with the no bomb drop code. Spear Pillar might work if we had a code so there is always a beam going through the cave.
And that's all the stages. If that was too tl;dr for you, here's a quick C/P of all my summaries for each section.
All summaries:
Starter summary: I put this group here just for the sake of completion. None of these stages need anything done to them.
Starter/Counter summary: Nothing here should be frozen. Maybe get a specific code to stop lylat's tilting (which is different, yet has the same ultimate purpose) or to remove the claw on halberd, but that's it.
Counter summary: Green Hill Zone, Jungle Japes, and Norfair might be freeze candidates, although none of them would land them in neutral, making freezing them kinda arbitrary. I think Luigi's Mansion (which should at the least be in the counter/banned group...) would be good with the Deadlands code, which would net us another neutral. Pokemon Stadium 2 is probably on everyone's freeze lists by now, and I agree with its freezing to be made into a neutral.
Counter/Banned summary: Green greens might be a target for freezing (and possible an extra code to fix the block problem). We almost definitely want a code that kills the cars on port town.
Banned summary: Maybe freeze Flat Zone 2 and Mushroomy Kingdom I. Definitely freeze Warioware. Bridge of Eldin might be viable with the no bomb drop code. Spear Pillar might work if we had a code so there is always a beam going through the cave.
No one is gonna argue about the rules, just maybe the stages.
